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Welcome to Meta!Edit

Hello Lasta, and welcome to the Wikimedia Meta-Wiki! This website is for coordinating and discussing all Wikimedia projects. You may find it useful to read our policy page. If you are interested in doing translations, visit Meta:Babylon. You can also leave a note on Meta:Babel or Wikimedia Forum (please read the instructions at the top of the page before posting there). If you would like, feel free to ask me questions on my talk page. Happy editing! --John Vandenberg 23:36, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

Pomoć novim suradnicimaEdit

Lasta, Dmedved je 23. rujna napisao: http://hr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Razgovor_sa_suradnikom:SveroH#Slike_Drenova, neke slike dvojice novih suradnika su zapravo bez razloga obrisane: http://hr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Razgovor_sa_suradnikom:Dmedved#Slika2, a voditeljica Službe za Internet podršku Zavoda za informatičku djelatnost Grada Rijeke, Tatjana Perše do koje se može doći na telefonski broj +385 51 209 337, kao i mobitel, također je potvrdila dopusnicu za prenošenje sadržaja. U čemu je još problem? Lijep pozdrav :-) --Roberta F. 14:39, 8 October 2009 (UTC)

Translator, We need you!Edit

Dear Lasta,

You have helped us in previous years with translations and for that we are most grateful. Now we turn towards the 2011/12 fundraiser. It may seem forever away, but work has already begun getting everything ready to go. This year we want to have landing pages covering as many countries in as many languages as possible.

Right now, we want to figure out who is interested in translating for the fundraiser. This year we're hoping to have more of a solidified "core" group of translators that we can count on to have work done by a few key dates, but we'd also welcome help from people who are willing to just help out when they can.

If you would be interested please take a look at this little sign-up survey and fill it out http://survey.wikimedia.org/index.php?sid=13638&newtest=Y&lang=en. With that we can start building a list of people and filling any gaps in the languages we serve.

Many Thanks

Joseph Seddon (User:Jseddon (WMF))

Production Coordinator
Wikimedia Foundation
Jseddon (WMF) 00:46, 9 July 2011 (UTC)

Meta:Requests for help from a sysop or bureaucratEdit

Hello, please see the page above where there is a section on your behavior on this wiki. --Rschen7754 23:56, 9 November 2019 (UTC)

Legal threatsEdit

Legal threats, threatening to engage in real-world litigation against other editors, are not a way to resolve conflict within our system. Meta-Wiki and Wikimedia projects are not the place for legal disputes. We have a procedure to resolve issues internally; that's what this specific RfC is for. You had the opportunity to contest the claims against you on-wiki, and you chose instead to pursue an off-wiki course involving legal action. As such, I'm imposing an indefinite block on your account until this legal issue is resolved. Regards, Vermont (talk) 00:13, 10 November 2019 (UTC)

This block is completely unjustified and embarrassing for Meta. Is Meta or Wikipedia a legal vacuum? Can users be defamed here for no reason? --Mateo K 01 (talk) 00:27, 10 November 2019 (UTC)
Users have different options in responding to criticism. The usual route is to manage it onwiki, through our resolution processes (in this case, the RfC). Another route, the one Lasta chose, is litigation. The two are mutually exclusive; you cannot have both. Warm regards, Vermont (talk) 00:41, 10 November 2019 (UTC)
They are free to take legal actions if they wish so: We cannot prevent them. However, you should not discuss your legal actions on this wiki as it harms the community (by publicly attempting to gag someone else's mouth), so - if you want to discuss such matter, email and other private contact method is the way to go. — regards, Revi 01:01, 11 November 2019 (UTC)

I'm noting that you left me a message on my home wiki. I will respond to it on your talk page here, which you should be able to edit; you have talk page access. I have no doubt that your comments were legal threats. Telling someone that, if they didn't remove your name within 48 hours, you would sue them, is a very clear legal threat with no room for ambiguity. You also stated, "GregorB, it is too late for that kind of talk. That kind of talk was possible before the accusation, this is another game now.", and the next sentences said he could either withdraw his accusations or face a lawsuit. That cannot be interpreted as anything but a clear legal threat. Do you have any intention of pursuing rectification of this dispute in court? Vermont (talk) 11:35, 12 November 2019 (UTC)

Vermont, for the record:
  • I'm the editor Lasta is accused of having made legal threats against.
  • I never formally or informally complained or intended to complain about perceived legal threats, and haven't sought Lasta's block or had any part in it.
I would like you to consider unblocking Lasta, taking the following into consideration:
  1. As I've already noted, I'm not complaining about any legal threats possibly made against me.
  2. There is no way of materializing a legal threat against me, as my real-life identity is not publicly known.
  3. An ongoing RfC is discussing Lasta's actions on the Croatian Wikipedia, and there are accusations against him which may affect his status as an administrator. While he is blocked, he won't be able to address these accusations.
I'm fully aware that, strictly speaking, the above three points have no bearing on the interpretation or implementation of the legal threats policy. Please also consider unblocking him for the duration of the RfC, provided, of course, that he agrees to desist from making any kind of statement that refers to legal action, and to edit his earlier statements accordingly. GregorB (talk) 21:04, 12 November 2019 (UTC)
I understand your third point; it would be beneficial were they to be able to address the accusations against them. However, that is not a free pass to make legal threats. If Lasta is to rescind their earlier legal threats and agree not to engage in such behavior in the future, I will unblock the account. Best regards, Vermont (talk) 00:02, 13 November 2019 (UTC)
Vermont: If you read my statement on your simple Wiki page, you will find that I wrote that, no matter what I want to do, there are no foundations for any successful legal claim, nor I have any information who is the person who is accusing me. Therefore, I do not have any other choice except to let it be. --Lasta (talk) 19:03, 16 November 2019 (UTC)
Vermont: Anyhow, your actions did not (and will not) interfere with my intentions to ignore those fake accusations, especially when I see that they are backed up by another account which behaves very similar to behaviour of a sock-puppet (https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Requests_for_comment%2FSite-wide_administrator_abuse_and_WP%3APILLARS_violations_on_the_Croatian_Wikipedia&type=revision&diff=19541624&oldid=19541092). --Lasta (talk) 19:22, 16 November 2019 (UTC)
Stating that your legal threats have no merit and that you don't know the name of the person you're threating does not negate the fact that you made legal threats, disrupting the desired civil environment. I will reiterate: unless you rescind your legal threats and agree not to engage in such behavior in the future, you will not be unblocked. Vermont (talk) 21:56, 16 November 2019 (UTC)
Vermont: Please, do me a favour, do not unblock me any more, instead, block me an all Wikies.
Vermont, I'm not going to sue anyone and I'm not going to discuss any possible legal actions on Wikipedia in future. If I ever decide to sue anyone, I will discuss it off-wiki, in private messages. --Lasta (talk) 14:20, 23 March 2020 (UTC)
If you messaged someone off-wiki threatening legal action about something that happened here or on another Wikimedia project, that still falls under the category of a legal threat. You'd be attempting to change that person's behavior onwiki by threatening offwiki to sue them. If that person then emailed administrators (or, if it is percieved as offwiki harassment, stewards/T&S) you would definitely still be blocked, if not other actions taken as well. I will reiterate points I made earlier: when resolving onwiki issues, you have a number of choices. If you decide to resort to legal action, threats of legal action, blackmail, etc., you waive the right to resolve the issue by any onwiki means, and thus you will be blocked. What you have essentially said here is that, instead of publicizing your legal threats, you will transmit them privately, which could very easily be construed as offwiki harassment. It still has the same effect, if not a greater effect, and you will not be unblocked. I am continually surprised at your unacceptable behavior here, especially considering that you are an administrator on another Wikimedia project. Regards, Vermont (talk) 16:25, 23 March 2020 (UTC)
Vermont, so no legal threats even in private messages? OK, no problem, I mussunderstood You last time, I thought You suggested that. --Lasta (talk) 19:38, 23 March 2020 (UTC)
It's entirely shocking to me that you, an administrator on a medium-sized Wikimedia project, believes it's an acceptable avenue of recourse to threaten to sue people, whether it be on or off wiki. Vermont (talk) 20:26, 23 March 2020 (UTC)
So, Vermont, in other words, I revoked my legal threats, but You will keep me permanently blocked, despite your previous statements, because You dislike me? You seams to be the right person to talk about abuse of admin tools. Because, You are doing the same thing here. --Lasta (talk) 12:39, 18 April 2020 (UTC)

┌─────────────────────────────────┘
I've seen no indication that you understand why legal threats are detrimental to the community, and from your last messages it became evident that you continue to believe seeking legal action is acceptable for resolving your on-wiki disputes. In regard to your claims of abuse of administrator tools, I blocked you for a bright-line violation and refused later unblock requests as it was not evident you understood why you were blocked or that you intended to refrain from such activities in the future. That is the criteria for which we review unblock requests, and you quite clearly did not meet that criteria. With regard to your claim that my motivations are because I dislike you, that is not accurate. Every action I have made here has been reflective of community consensus and WM:URB. Acting as though you are the victim, which is clearly not the case, is not likely to help you get unblocked. You are free to make another request using Template:Unblock, which I will leave for another administrator to respond to. Regards, Vermont (talk) 19:19, 18 April 2020 (UTC)

UnblockEdit

Unblock request granted

This blocked user asked to be unblocked, and one or more administrators has reviewed and granted this request.

Request reason: I was blocked by Vermont because I made legal threats to GregorB. He said he will unblock me as soon as I revoke legal threats. So I did, but he keeps me blocked for no reason. Lasta (talk) 09:03, 23 April 2020 (UTC)
Unblock reason: Per blocking administrator support and no more necessary as user understood the problematic conduct, and promised not to repeat.Camouflaged Mirage (talk) 13:48, 23 April 2020 (UTC)

This template should be archived normally.


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As a reviewing admin, I will like you to confirm you understand what No legal threats means as well as read through and confirm you understand NLT. I will also want you to formally apologize for the legal threats made to GregorB. In addition, you do undertake that your actions here will be accordance to our policies as well as acknowledge the block is merited by itself and Vermont did not block you in the sense he don't like you but rather your behaviour here is clearly unacceptable. If you can agree on and do the above, I am happy to unblock. Regards,Camouflaged Mirage (talk) 10:07, 23 April 2020 (UTC)
Camouflaged Mirage, as I remarked in the previous section, I did not ask for Lasta's block, and I don't object to his being unblocked. (I'm fully aware, though, that this has no bearing on the application of the no-legal-threats policy.) I don't feel I need an apology. From my personal perspective, it would be sufficient if he: 1) withdrew all statements that refer to legal action (e.g. by crossing them out, with an appropriate comment added below), and 2) agreed not to make any such statements in the future. GregorB (talk) 11:02, 23 April 2020 (UTC)
Thanks GregorB for your understanding. I will change my conditions of the formal apology to those you mentioned. Camouflaged Mirage (talk) 12:02, 23 April 2020 (UTC)
Camouflaged Mirage, I have red and I understand NLT and I understand why my comments resulted in block (I complained only about not being unblocked by Vermont later). I do not have problem with GregorB, I believe that, unlike in 2019., he now has more nuanced knowledge of who is who on hr wikipedia. GregorB, I agree on your 1) and 2). --Lasta (talk) 12:41, 23 April 2020 (UTC)
Do also agree on what billinghurst say below that you will be communicating rather than asking for legal actions. And when unblocked, I hope you will immediately strike all the offending words. (per 1 and 2). I will echo what had been said, should there be anything more abut legal or your conduct, the block will be speedy reinstated. If you can agree on all these, I will unblock now. Camouflaged Mirage (talk) 12:50, 23 April 2020 (UTC)
@Vermont: For consent as blocking admin. Thanks. Camouflaged Mirage (talk) 13:01, 23 April 2020 (UTC)
You do not need my consent, but I support unblocking them. I will note that, per Billinghurst, we cannot force anyone not to make legal threats. However, if they do, we impose on-wiki consequences in the form of a block. As Lasta understands the reasoning behind it and related process, which they have indicated above (and did not indicate prior to that message, hence why I didn't unblock them), I don't see a reason to keep them blocked. I am happy that this has been resolved. Best regards, Vermont (talk) 13:30, 23 April 2020 (UTC)
Per blocks are preventative, not punitive, and the user seems to understand what is wrong, I don't see the need for this block to continue any further. With the support of the blocking admin, I will unblock. I will caution Lasta to not make such statements any further and if needed do consult me or any other administrators for help. I will hope you make the necessary retractions soon and welcome back. Camouflaged Mirage (talk) 13:46, 23 April 2020 (UTC)

  Comment A user is within their rights to resort to legal action, though there are consequences once that is progressed (as explained above). I would like to see a clear statement that a legal process is not being pursued, and that where possible that direct resolution with the user is preferred process for wikimedia users. I don't think that any statement about not using legal avenues in the future is reasonable, we all have rights and should not unconditionally lose them. There should be the understanding that any future statement of pursuing legal resolution will see a block return.  — billinghurst sDrewth 11:37, 23 April 2020 (UTC)