DannyH (WMF)

Re: Crosswatch

Thanks for your notice! Sorry for my misconception.- Earth Saver _(talk) at 03:01, 27 May 2016 (UTC)

Numerical sorting

Please enable it on it.wiki. It had already been requested in [1], and I got a confirmation that since this adds to uca-it, it's indeed desirable. Would have filed a task OC, but Phab's been down for a while now and I didn't want to forget. TY --Elitre (WMF) (talk) 12:58, 26 September 2016 (UTC)

Excellent, thanks! I filed it in T146675. We're going to wait until we have a few wikis, and then do them at once -- I'll let you know when we're going to run the conversion on it.wiki. -- DannyH (WMF) (talk) 17:24, 26 September 2016 (UTC)

Hi Elitre (WMF), numerical sorting is live now on it.wiki. Here's an example. Let me know if you see any problems. Thanks! -- DannyH (WMF) (talk) 19:38, 24 October 2016 (UTC)

Numerical sorting on pl.wp

Please enable numerical sorting on the Polish Wikipedia per the discussion: link Matma Rex (talk) 18:08, 26 September 2016 (UTC)

@Matma Rex: Thanks! I added Polish WP to the ticket: T146675. -- DannyH (WMF) (talk) 19:40, 26 September 2016 (UTC)

Hi Matma Rex, numerical sorting is now live on plwiki. Here's an example. Let me know if you see any problems. Thanks! -- DannyH (WMF) (talk) 23:34, 20 October 2016 (UTC)

Enabling numerical sorting on vi.wikipedia

I've followed your instructions and created a discussion on enabling numerical sorting on vi.wikipedia. There have been 18 "support" votes (including mine), with no "oppose" votes. I think that the consensus on my wiki is to enable this feature. —ALittleQuenhi (talk to me) 07:42, 29 September 2016 (UTC)

@Quenhitran:: Great, I'll add you to the ticket: T146675. We're going to get some more wikis on the list, and then we'll do them as a batch. I'll let you know when it's coming up, thanks! -- DannyH (WMF) (talk) 17:25, 29 September 2016 (UTC)

Hi Quenhitran, numerical sorting is now live on viwiki! (Here's an example.) Let me know if you see any problems. Thanks! -- DannyH (WMF) (talk) 22:06, 20 October 2016 (UTC)

Thank you DannyH (WMF), I've seen the changes and it works great! I've also left a notification on the community's talk page so that other users can experience this feature and report the problems. —ALittleQuenhi (talk to me) 11:05, 23 October 2016 (UTC)

Enable numerical sorting in hu@wikipedia

Hi DannyH,

We would like to have uca-hu-u-kn in Hungarian Wikipedia. Community support is here: hu:Wikipédia:Kocsmafal (javaslatok)#Kategóriák numerikus rendezése. Thank you! Bináris ^{tell me} 06:38, 1 October 2016 (UTC)

Hi Bináris, Thanks for the message. I added Hungarian WP to the Phabricator ticket -- we're going to collect some more requests, and then do them as a batch, probably in a few weeks. I'll let you know when it's coming, thanks! -- DannyH (WMF) (talk) 20:12, 3 October 2016 (UTC)

Hi Bináris, numerical sorting is now live on huwiki! (Here's an example.) Let me know if you see any problems. Thanks! -- DannyH (WMF) (talk) 21:59, 20 October 2016 (UTC)

Great, thank you very much! Bináris ^{tell me} 18:37, 24 October 2016 (UTC)

Enable numeric sorting at no.wikipedia

Hi Danny, please add nowiki to your list, per community consensus: no:Wikipedia:Tinget#Numerisk_sortering_i_kategorier. Stigmj (talk) 20:48, 2 October 2016 (UTC)

Norwegian use space as thousand separator, it is used inconsistently, and it is not properly tested. In the category system there are also marker strings that switch the direction, which is not properly identified. Yes I wrote the original proposal at nowiki, no I do not think this should be turned on yet. — Jeblad 23:34, 2 October 2016 (UTC)

Your (now suddenly changed) opinion after the fact doesn't change the community decision. If you have any technical issues, please direct them to phabricator as bug reports. The technical implementation of the numeric sorting should take into account the idiosyncracies of the different formatting of numbers, or we will have to adapt to them. There is wide support for enabling the sorting today. Stigmj (talk) 10:42, 3 October 2016 (UTC)

Well, I have written what is the open problems. When I posted the note on nowiki I asked about opinions whether it should be implemented. No I did not list all the possible problems in the note, that would make it too hard to build consensus. Now go back and ask the community to find the possible problems that will emerge when the categories are sorted numerically. — Jeblad 11:07, 3 October 2016 (UTC)

Hi Stigmj and Jeblad: Thanks for both the consensus discussion and the concern. :) Jeblad, it's true that the numerical sorting collation has a problem with separators -- this is true for a comma separator as well as a space separator. For example, on English WP's 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea (1954 film), I added a defaultsort with my volunteer account so that it sorts as 20000 Leagues Under the Sea. As a volunteer, I've done a lot of defaultsort fixing over the years, because it happens to be one of my personal "pet peeves", so I did some cleanup on numerical sorting by adding defaultsorts after we deployed it on English WP.

So you are correct that with the new collation, there still need to be some defaultsorts to make the sorting work properly on numbers with separators. There's not a lot that we can do about that part, and we don't plan on addressing that right now. Unfortunately, that means you may need to change some defaultsort tags. But that's already a problem with the current sorting used on Norwegian WP, so this collation doesn't make that any worse, and it does fix all of the other numerical sorting issues. If it would help, I'd be okay with personally fixing some defaultsorts on Norwegian on my personal volunteer time -- I actually kind of enjoy fixing defaultsorts.

Jeblad, if you think that issue is enough to halt the rollout of numerical sorting, then maybe you could reopen that community discussion, and ask if other people feel the same way. What I see right now is a unanimous agreement that people want numerical sorting. :) Stigmj and Jeblad, let me know how you think we should proceed. Thanks. -- DannyH (WMF) (talk) 19:54, 3 October 2016 (UTC)

It is a consensus, which is a necessary premise before more time is invested, and now an analysis should be done on necessary changes and especially on the marker terms. It is probably not a lot of work, but it should be done so people know what will break and how they can fix it. That is my opinion. — Jeblad 20:56, 3 October 2016 (UTC)

Jeblad, can you give me an example of the marker terms? I'm not sure that I know what you mean. -- DannyH (WMF) (talk) 21:01, 3 October 2016 (UTC)

I sent you an email earlier today. — Jeblad 21:15, 3 October 2016 (UTC)

Jeblad -- Okay, I just read your email, so I know what you mean. The new numerical sorting does not affect "f.Kr." and "e.Kr." at all, the same as "BC" and "AD" on English WP. It looks like Norwegian WP uses a workaround, putting e.Kr.and f.Kr. dates in separate categories, based on a set of 100 years -- [[Kategori:Årstall på 0-tallet]] from 1 e.Kr. to 99 e.Kr., and [[Kategori:Årstall på 0-tallet f.Kr.]] for 99 f.Kr. to 1 f.Kr. English WP uses a different workaround, using sorts to count backwards from -0001 to -9999, and then forward from 0001 to 9999.

But, the important thing: This will not be impacted in any way by the new numerical sorting collation. There will be no effect at all, and nothing to fix. -- DannyH (WMF) (talk) 21:32, 3 October 2016 (UTC)

If the described system isn't according to whats described in the ticket, that is the ICU collation, then you should perhaps create a proper help page, where you clearly describe what the implemented system do and don't do. — Jeblad 22:14, 3 October 2016 (UTC)

Jeblad -- Yes, I'm sorry that this was confusing. I'm glad that we cleared it up. -- DannyH (WMF) (talk) 22:56, 3 October 2016 (UTC)

Community Wishlist Survey: NPP & AfC issues

Hi DannyH. Yes, I'm aware of that pre-survey page and while it is nice to know that someone is at least watching it, our entries were made on consensus of the volunteer community team that is working on a highly critical aspect of Wikipedia - a Foundation project - that the Foundation has refused to maintain and complete since 2013 and which most of the new staff are probably not even aware of.

Ideally, we need to bypass your project in order to address these issues in a timely manner (we've been waiting for nearly 5 years) and escalate these needs to a level where it can be understood that our requirements are serious major issues that are not to be confused with the requests for gadgets and gimmicks that are generally submitted by individual users to your project. We have tried engaging Nick Wilson and Ryan Kaldari but we are still without any positive action or in some cases, even response. We are concerned that within the fold of the WMF a lot of buck-passing is going on.

So basically, we are just exploiting every avenue to ensure awareness among the many employees of the WMF which has grown from 7 employees to over 200 in 5 years, whose work overlaps on one one hand, but who are unaware of what each one is doing on the other, in the hope that someone will finally understand the urgency of these issues. They concern the very fabric on which the Wikimedia mission is built. For more information and If you are in any way concerned about the reputation of the encyclopedias owned by the Wikimedia Foundation, please see: en:Wikipedia:The future of NPP and AfC. Thanks. --Kudpung (talk) 01:59, 3 October 2016 (UTC)

Hi Kudpung, just to clarify: That wasn't a pre-survey page. It was set up by a volunteer, and was specifically marked as not being connected to the Wishlist Survey. That's why I wanted to give you a heads-up, so that you wouldn't invest too much into that page as a way of getting work done on your proposal. I'm glad that Ajraddatz deleted that page, because this is exactly the kind of confusion that I was worried that page would create.

I think that the Wishlist Survey is probably the best route for you to get development work done. This is specifically what the Community Tech team is designed to support -- an important project that a lot of contributors want to see done, but hasn't been prioritized by any other product team. So far this year, 5 of the top 10 wishes from the last survey have been completed, we're currently working on a 6th, and Wikidata is working on another one. We're also currently working on #25 and #29 on the list.

If you're talking to people at the Foundation -- Nick, Ryan, James, all the way up to Katherine and the board -- then I expect that they'll probably tell you to propose this in the Community Wishlist Survey. It starts in a month -- the 2016 Community Wishlist Survey page has all the details. Let me know what I can do to help. -- DannyH (WMF) (talk) 18:00, 3 October 2016 (UTC)

The difference is, Danny, that these issues are too big for the Wish List. We're not asking for convenience gadgets, we're asking for the completion of some critical core software (or extensions) that the Wikipedia Foundation started and did not complete. You would understand more if Jonathan had properly disseminated the content of the hour-long Skype he had with me. The problem is that he also does not understand. the gravity of the current situation. At he end of the day, the Wish List project is the wrong venue for these pressing issues and they do indeed need a ruling from Katherine if a department does not yet exist to address them. --Kudpung (talk) 19:07, 3 October 2016 (UTC)

I just had a conversation with the team about this. We are concerned about the skyrocketing backlog; Ryan has some thoughts about what we can do. I think some other people are going to be reaching out to you with specifics. I'm glad you brought it up, and I hope we can help. -- DannyH (WMF) (talk) 19:23, 3 October 2016 (UTC)

Enable numerical sorting in ru@wikipedia

Please, enable numerical sorting on the Russian Wikipedia per the discussion: ru:Википедия:Форум/Предложения#Сортировка чисел в категориях (oldid). Dmitry89 (talk) 17:10, 3 October 2016 (UTC)

Hi Dmitry89, thanks for your note. I've added Russian WP to the Phabricator ticket; we'll probably get these done within a few weeks. I'll let you know when it's coming. Thanks! -- DannyH (WMF) (talk) 20:13, 3 October 2016 (UTC)

Hi Dmitry89, numerical sorting is now live on ruwiki! (Here's an example.) Let me know if you see any problems. Thanks! -- DannyH (WMF) (talk) 22:03, 20 October 2016 (UTC)

Enable numerical sorting on hewiki

Hi. Could you please add us to the list? You can see the discussion (100% for) at w:he:WP:VP#שינוי שיטת המיון קטגוריות עם מספרים בשמות. Thank you. IKhitron (talk) 13:18, 6 October 2016 (UTC)

Great! I added hewiki to the list. I'll let you know when it's coming. -- DannyH (WMF) (talk) 21:10, 6 October 2016 (UTC)

Thanks! IKhitron (talk) 22:00, 6 October 2016 (UTC)

Hi IKhitron, numerical sorting is live on hewiki! Here's an example. Let me know if you see any problems. Thanks! -- DannyH (WMF) (talk) 23:52, 20 October 2016 (UTC)

Thank you very much! It looks very good, indeed. Yes, there is one problem, as I told you yesterday, but the patch is already done. IKhitron (talk) 09:15, 21 October 2016 (UTC)

Natural number sorting on cswiki

Hello, could we ask you to enable natural number sorting in category listings on cswiki? Community discussion here: https://cs.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedie:Pod_l%C3%ADpou#.C5.98azen.C3.AD_.C4.8Dl.C3.A1nk.C5.AF_v_kategori.C3.ADch_podle_.C4.8D.C3.ADsel --Dvorapa (talk) 04:49, 15 October 2016 (UTC)

Great, thanks! I've put you on the list -- this should be done very soon. -- DannyH (WMF) (talk) 17:15, 17 October 2016 (UTC)

Hi Dvorapa, numerical sorting is now working on cswiki! (Here's an example.) Let me know if you see any problems with it. Thanks! -- DannyH (WMF) (talk) 21:54, 20 October 2016 (UTC)

Thank you. We were surprised by the heading a little bit (we thought it will be a blank space, but "0–9" heading is much better). First impressions from users are really positive too. I'll let you know if there will be some problem in the future. --Dvorapa (talk) 02:38, 21 October 2016 (UTC)

Enable numerical sorting on bn@wikipedia and bn@wikisource

Hi. how are you? Can you please enable numerical sorting on bn@wikipedia and bn@wikisource?

• Community notification for bn@wikipedia is here with 100% consensus.
• Community notification for bn@wikisource is here with 100% consensus. Thanks. -- Bodhisattwa (talk) 21:15, 17 October 2016 (UTC)

Hi, Bodhisattwa -- I'll put these on the list, and I'll let you know when it's done. Thanks! -- DannyH (WMF) (talk) 21:22, 17 October 2016 (UTC)

Thanks a lot. -- Bodhisattwa (talk) 21:23, 17 October 2016 (UTC)

Hi Bodhisattwa, both wikis have numerical sorting now. Let me know if you see a problem. Thanks! -- DannyH (WMF) (talk) 00:23, 21 October 2016 (UTC)

Hi Danny, I am keeping track on this category in Bengali Wikipedia and this category in Bengali Wikisource. The category in Bengali Wikipedia category is acting weird, may be its due to the transition phase and I have to wait for few more hours, right? Also, I noticed, The category in Bengali Wikisource now have a 0-9 segment, but, its in English, it needs to be changed into Bengali numerical ০-৯. Thanks. -- Bodhisattwa (talk) 12:30, 21 October 2016 (UTC)

Hi Bodhisattwa, thanks for reporting these. I created a bug ticket, and included you on it: phab:T148873. -- DannyH (WMF) (talk) 21:33, 21 October 2016 (UTC)

Hi, is there any update regarding this issue? -- Bodhisattwa (talk) 17:55, 15 November 2016 (UTC)

Enable numerical sorting on ukwiki

Hi! Please add ukwiki to the list. The discussion was here: uk:Вікіпедія:Кнайпа (пропозиції)#Голосування за увімкнення числового сортування в категоріях. Thanks!--Piramidion 07:56, 19 October 2016 (UTC)

Great, thank you! I've put your request on this ticket: T148682. We'll gather a few more requests, and then run the script on your wiki. I'll let you know when it's done. Thanks! -- DannyH (WMF) (talk) 20:25, 19 October 2016 (UTC)

Hi Piramidion, numerical sorting is now live on ukwiki. Here's an example. Let me know if you see any problems. Thank you! -- DannyH (WMF) (talk) 23:13, 28 October 2016 (UTC)

Thanks!--Piramidion 08:42, 29 October 2016 (UTC)

Numerical sorting – hr.wp

Please enable numerical sorting on the Croatian Wikipedia per this discussion. – Srdjan m (talk) 15:51, 20 October 2016 (UTC)

Hi Srdjan m, I'll put your wiki in the next batch to be done. I'll let you know once it's finished. Thanks! -- DannyH (WMF) (talk) 00:27, 21 October 2016 (UTC)

Hi Srdjan m, numerical sorting is live on Croatian too! Here's an example. Let me know if you see any problems. Thanks! -- DannyH (WMF) (talk) 23:11, 28 October 2016 (UTC)

Numerical sorting – bs.wp

Hey there (again)! Please enable numerical sorting on the Bosnian Wikipedia per this RfC. – Srdjan m (talk) 11:41, 21 October 2016 (UTC)

Hi! Great, that's on the list too. I'll let you know when it's done. -- DannyH (WMF) (talk) 20:41, 21 October 2016 (UTC)

Hi Srdjan m, numerical sorting is now live on Bosnian Wikipedia. Here's an example. Let me know if you see any problems. Thanks! -- DannyH (WMF) (talk) 23:06, 28 October 2016 (UTC)

Numerical sorting – de.ws

Please enable numerical sorting on the German Wikisource per this RfC. --THE IT (talk) 17:31, 23 October 2016 (UTC)

Okay, thanks! I've put de.ws on the list for the next batch. I'll let you know when it's done! -- DannyH (WMF) (talk) 19:34, 24 October 2016 (UTC)

Category collation change and numerical sorting - ilo.wp

Request category collation change and enable numerical sorting for Ilokano Wikipedia (uca-fil-u-knrecently added) per local RfC. Thanks. --Lam-ang (talk) 15:23, 26 October 2016 (UTC)

Okay, I've put you on the ticket for the next batch. I'll let you know when it's done. Thanks! -- DannyH (WMF) (talk) 23:16, 28 October 2016 (UTC)

Enable numerical sorting and UCA in Galician wikipedia - gl.wp

Hi DannyH. We've held a discussion at Galician (gl) Wikipedia and agreed on enabling both numerical sorting and collation algorithm for categories on our wiki. Thank you! Banjo (talk) 16:43, 26 October 2016 (UTC)

Okay, I've put you on the ticket for the next batch. I'll let you know when it's done. Thanks! -- DannyH (WMF) (talk) 23:16, 28 October 2016 (UTC)

Numerical sorting – sh.wp

Please enable numerical sorting on the Serbo-Croatian Wikipedia per this discussion. – Srdjan m (talk) 14:47, 5 November 2016 (UTC)

Numerical sorting – sr.wp

Please enable numerical sorting on the Serbian Wikipedia per this discussion. – Srdjan m (talk) 14:47, 5 November 2016 (UTC)

Okay, Srdjan m! I've got Serbo-Croatian and Serbian on the list for the next batch to deploy. I'll let you know when it's done. Thanks! -- DannyH (WMF) (talk) 19:05, 7 November 2016 (UTC)

Numerical sorting – ptwiki

Hi!

Could you please enable numerical sorting on the Portuguese Wikipedia? See this discussion. Helder 15:20, 7 November 2016 (UTC)

Hi Helder, I've put your request in the next batch for deployment. I'll let you know when it's done. Thanks! -- DannyH (WMF) (talk) 19:06, 7 November 2016 (UTC)

A place for more feedback on "code in your own language"

Hi Danny. While I understand the necessity of cleaning proposal, could you also provide a move to some relevant places to continue to talk on subject archived? I do appreciate the feedback on the subject, even if it won't be a validated proposal in the Community Wishlist. :) -- Psychoslave 13:23, 22 November 2016 (UTC)

Hi Psychoslave, I think one place you could go is the Wikitech-L mailing list, which is for technical discussions about Wikimedia projects. I hope that helps... -- DannyH (WMF) (talk) 22:28, 25 November 2016 (UTC)

Numerical sorting and UCA collation in es.wikiversity

Hello!

Could you please request the conversion of es.wikiversity to numerical sorting and the UCA collation for Spanish?

The proposal was posted in the local Village Pump 3 weeks ago and there have been no opostion to the proposal since then.

Regards, Lsanabria (talk) 03:19, 25 November 2016 (UTC)

Hi Lsanabria, I've put you on the list for the next batch. I'll let you know when it's done. Thanks! -- DannyH (WMF) (talk) 22:25, 25 November 2016 (UTC)

hi Danny Horn , I know i'm late & Voting phase will begins November 28th .can i request for adding my proposal.plz.THANKS.

Complete Reliability/Factual Accuracy Solution

• Problem: Wikipedia acknowledges that the encyclopedia should not be used as a primary source for research, either academic or informational. According to Academics [2][3] [4] [5] [6] [7] [8] & Harvard [9] ,Carleton [10],livescience [11] ,forbos [12],guardian [13] ,nature [14] wikipedia articles are "not enough RELIABLE" for academic research/study.some educational institutions have banned it as a primary source while others have limited its use to only a pointer to external sources. [15] [16] [17]. And there is "Lack of methodical fact-checking "...Inaccurate information that is not obviously false may persist in Wikipedia for a long time before it is challenged. [18] .. For a list of hoaxes that have occurred on Wikipedia, see Wikipedia:List of hoaxes on Wikipedia .

1. Accuracy is the biggest problem about Wikipedia . Anyone can add subtle nonsense  or erroneous information to articles that can take weeks, months or years to be detected and removed (which has been happening since at least 2002). Deliberate hoaxes can also be perpetrated.
2. Even unregistered users are capable of this. For example, some one can just come and edit this very page and put in "khats r four doughs onlee" or add mention of some unrelated topic: ===like how great pineapple pizza is===
3. Dross can proliferate, rather than become refined, as rhapsodic authors have their articles revised by ignorant editors.

• Who would benefit: all wiki reader & editor . 18 billion user every month . pageview 18 billion every month.[19][20][21]

• Proposed solution:I have a five step solution .

1.(Easy reporting): by Making it much easier for people to report "factual accuracy", misinformation faster. google,google news,facebook [22] ,twitter,bing everyone have a interactive reporting & feedback system .We can have a interactive reporting in wikipedia similar to google feedback [23] (with screenshot ; highlight issue in "yellow" & Black out private information private information) for highlighting a specific block/line . In wikipedia articles , we can have a [Report] link in every section ,beside [Edit] link . In reporting , there should have features for adding ,section dispute template & inline dispute template with Citation needed template & Accuracy disputes category., There are several noticeboards (for  inaccurate content  &  factual inaccuracy) at which accuracy disputes may be listed to gain the views of other editors, particularly the Dispute resolution , Fringe theories , reliable sources, no original research, neutral point-of-view, Conflict of Interest and biographies of living persons noticeboards.All report should go there or open a request for mediation (RFM) & Requests for Comment . some report should go here and here.In this way, we have a possibility  to get 18 billion "factual accuracy" report in every month  :) . [24][25][26]

2.(Algorithm): Leverage algorithms and artificial intelligence.Stronger detection Algorithm .Facebook already using machine learning—different algorithms than the ones that drive the Trending section—to try and catch misinformation on the platform . We can have a Algorithm similar to google,facebook [27] [28][29] [30] [31] [32] & twitter  [33] fake news algorithm .When a user create a article with Factual Accuracy/misinformation,claim,Fringe theories , original research ; without proper citation ; then the Algorithm should automatically add section dispute template & inline dispute template with Citation needed template & Accuracy disputes category. ...from reliable sources guideline , we can create a algorithm for "cross check ". when a editor insert a citation then it & will automatically start cross-checking the content with other similar reliable source & will create a " reliability meter ".

3.(Third party verification): Over the last several years, fact checking has come into its own. Led by many respected fact checking organizations like the International Fact-Checking Network, rigorous fact checks are now conducted by more than 100 active sites, according to the Duke University Reporter’s Lab. They collectively produce many thousands of fact-checks a year, examining claims around urban legends, politics, health, and the media itself. Google added a fact check tag on Google News in order to display articles that contain factual information next to trending news items.[34].Facebook using snopes [35] .snopes.com is a well-known resource for validating and debunking such stories in American popular culture, receiving 300,000 visits a day. [36] The Reporters’ Lab at Duke University maintains a database managed by Mark Stencel and Bill Adair of fact checking organizations. The database tracks more than 100 non-partisan organizations around the world. Articles are also examined based upon whether the site examines transparency of sources and methods, tracks political promises, examines all parties and sides, and examines discreet claims and reaches conclusions.

4.(User Right): We can have a user right group "Fact Checker". This user group will have some expertise & tools .Or, this right can be added to Admin group. they will get notified , when point 1.(Easy reporting) will happen , mainly for good , A ,GA &  B  articles. They will try to solve Factual Accuracy from these category as much as they can .

5.(reliability meter): in visual editor cite templates , we can add reliability meter . from the help of point 2.(Algorithm) ; every reader will see "reliability meter " , when they click in the "citation " & in "REFERENCES" .there is third party databases [37] [38] [39] [40] or we can create our own . when Reliability/Accuracy 100-81% ; we will see . when Reliability/Accuracy 80-61% ; we will see . when Reliability/Accuracy 60-50% ; we will see .

• More comments:
• Phabricator tickets:
• Proposer:--- md masum (talk) 17:38, 26 November 2016 (UTC)
  Community discussion:

Hi - as MusikAnimal said on his page, it's too late to post a new proposal now. But your proposal about 360 photos is there, and we'll start getting votes in a couple days. Thanks! -- DannyH (WMF) (talk) 19:22, 26 November 2016 (UTC)

Moving proposals

I'm puzzled by this change. There is no trace of the "moved" element on fr.wiktionary.org (I checked your contributions over there), so where did it go? And why was no link left behind? I guess I'm wondering about the policy governing the collection of proposals. Urhixidur (talk) 00:59, 2 December 2016 (UTC)

Hi Urhixidur, I moved your proposal to the Wiktionary page of the Wishlist Survey. When I moved it, I left a message under your proposal with a ping so that you would know where it went. Maybe your notification got lost somewhere along the way, I'm sorry about that! Your proposal is there, and open for voting. Thanks for posting a proposal, and sorry for the mixup. -- DannyH (WMF) (talk) 01:33, 2 December 2016 (UTC)

Archived copy of discussion

On 22 November 2016 vide this edit you archived a discussion. Could you please let me know where the discussion lies archived? Diptanshu^Talk 20:58, 19 February 2017 (UTC)

Hi Diptanshu.D, the archive page is here: 2016 Community Wishlist Survey/Archive. Let me know if I can help with anything. -- DannyH (WMF) (talk) 17:35, 21 February 2017 (UTC)

Iiiik!

…but, but, but, you reverted me!! [41] He he — Jeblad 18:37, 23 August 2017 (UTC)

Yeah, your revision is out of date now. :) -- DannyH (WMF) (talk) 18:45, 23 August 2017 (UTC)

Strange, lately it seems like it has become more common to not be logged in on all projects. — Jeblad 18:41, 23 August 2017 (UTC)

Is that a bug you're seeing? I'm not sure who to direct that to, but I can find out... -- DannyH (WMF) (talk) 18:45, 23 August 2017 (UTC)

I wasn't logged in on this tab when I wrote the note, even if I was logged in on other tabs. It happens all the time now. It seems like existing tabs does not get the correct events. Perhaps I should write a proper bug report. — Jeblad 02:52, 24 August 2017 (UTC)

Yeah, that would be good. I'm not the right person to diagnose that, sorry. -- DannyH (WMF) (talk) 14:46, 24 August 2017 (UTC)

Discussion pages

Hello Danny, any place is good for me, where I can get answer to my question ([42],[43]). :) Thank you in advance. Samat (talk) 23:53, 20 November 2017 (UTC)

Samat: I'm sorry, I missed your question! User:Jdforrester (WMF) will know what the current plans are. -- DannyH (WMF) (talk) 00:33, 21 November 2017 (UTC)

Thanks Danny; Samat, I'm not sure there's any current conversation about user-user discussion, but a good place for such a discussion would be somewhere on MediaWiki.org, maybe mw:Talk:Global Collaboration (as they're the team responsible for such features). Jdforrester (WMF) (talk) 00:58, 21 November 2017 (UTC)

"Support" vote broken after moved

See the 2017 Community Wishlist Survey/Watchlists/Automatic notication of new links to a page should be able to be activated/deactivated on a per page basis's history--YFdyh000 (talk) 16:34, 28 November 2017 (UTC)

Fixed I think. But someone should move the votes from the redirect page. Stryn (talk) 16:39, 28 November 2017 (UTC)

YFdyh000, thanks for flagging this, and Stryn, thanks for fixing it. :) I guess the bot that we used to add the header didn't keep up with the spelling fix for "notification". YFdyh000, I moved your vote and Jenks24's to the correct page. Sorry for the mixup. -- DannyH (WMF) (talk) 18:15, 28 November 2017 (UTC)

Where did it go?

Concerning this move: where was the proposal moved, exactly? Urhixidur (talk) 17:15, 8 December 2017 (UTC)

Found it at 2016 Community Wishlist Survey/Categories/Wiktionary. Urhixidur (talk) 17:20, 8 December 2017 (UTC)

Undelete improvements

Hi, Danny,

Since, you had once commented over this thread, was this issue any dealt with? I'm struggling to find the phab tickets:-)Winged Blades of Godric (talk) 16:46, 23 October 2018 (UTC)

Hi Winged Blades of Godric, that proposal got 48 votes in last year's Wishlist Survey, which put it at #41 in the final results. There are five related tickets: T9996, T110989, T30821, T30819 and T62736. They're all currently listed as open. The new Community Wishlist Survey 2019 starts tomorrow, if you want to give that proposal another shot. DannyH (WMF) (talk) 21:22, 28 October 2018 (UTC)

Thanks:-) Mer-C had already proposed it and I have !voted.Winged Blades of Godric (talk) 16:11, 17 November 2018 (UTC)

The Community Wishlist Survey

Hi,

You get this message because you’ve previously participated in the Community Wishlist Survey. I just wanted to let you know that this year’s survey is now open for proposals. You can suggest technical changes until 11 November: Community Wishlist Survey 2019.

You can vote from November 16 to November 30. To keep the number of messages at a reasonable level, I won’t send out a separate reminder to you about that. /Johan (WMF) 11:24, 30 October 2018 (UTC)

• Depending on the editorial board's publishing decisions, The Signpost is intending to run an article about the wishlist in the next issue. If you have any concerns regarding the factual accuracy of this piece, please let us know on the Newsroom talk page. The article draft is at here. Kudpung (talk) 10:16, 4 November 2018 (UTC)

Kudpung, thanks for letting me know. I made corrections and updates on some slightly outdated info in the article -- the name of the Community Wishlist Survey, who's working on the Community Tech team, my brief as Director. Your article reminded me that my user page and the Community Tech page both needed updating :) -- so I corrected them, and made the Mediawiki version of the Community Tech page into a redirect to the Meta page. I took out the clause in the article that referred to there being two different Community Tech pages. I hope all of that is helpful; I tried not to alter anything that would affect your intentions as the writer. Let me know if you have any questions, or if I did anything wrong that I should fix. Thanks! -- DannyH (WMF) (talk) 21:02, 4 November 2018 (UTC)

Wishlist Survey tracking

Hello Danny, can you make sure this list is also updated Community Wishlist Survey 2019/Tracking -- naveenpf (talk) 01:47, 14 November 2018 (UTC)

Hi Naveenpf, that page should update automatically when the Community Tech bot picks up the changes. -- DannyH (WMF) (talk) 01:50, 14 November 2018 (UTC)

Entschuldigung, aber

Deine Verschiebung meines Wunsches ins Archiv erachte ich als grobe Missachtung. Es mag "euch" Entwicklern unverständlich sein, doch wir "Autoren" wünschen uns vernünftige, stabile Werkzeuge, die wir problemlos nutzen können, um gute Artikel zu schreiben. Dazu benötigt es auch Sonderzeichen, die gerade für unterschiedliche Schriften und Sprachen enorm wichtig sind. Ich fühle mich gerade richtig missachtet und danke dafür. Dann bastelt mal an Entwicklerspielzeug, welches euch mehr Spaß macht. Mit extremer Verärgerung und großem Unverständnis. --Itti (talk) 07:52, 8 November 2018 (UTC)

Während die Verschiebung ins Archiv aus rein technischer Sicht vielleicht OK sein mag, das Ansinnen war i.d.T. nichts für die Wishlist, so hätte ich doch ein Verschieben an einen angemessenen Ort vorgezogen. Wo wäre denn dieser angemessene Ort, an dem sich über ein die Community betreffendes Tech-Teil beschweren kann, wenn die Devs mal wieder ohne ausreichende Konsultationen und Folgenabschätzungen irgendwas vermeintlich notwendiges durchziehen, was einen großen Kollateralschaden anrichtet?

<Translation> While the move in the archive may have been something correct in a pure technical way, the topic really was nothin for the wish list, a move towards an appropriate place would have been favourable. Where would have been the place, where the community can complain about such tech-stuff, once the devs have again not asked enough editors and have not thought about the consequences, before they push through some alleged necessary change, that wreaks havoc?</Translation>

Grüße vom Sänger ♫^(Reden) 08:13, 8 November 2018 (UTC)

P.S.: Don't bother to mention Phabricator or other nerdy venues, we need a place for editors, that just want to write an encyclopedia and don't have a degree in informatics.

The Forum seems to be a correct place, at least TheDJ moved it there. Grüße vom Sänger ♫^(Reden) 08:33, 8 November 2018 (UTC)

No answer for me? --Itti (talk) 16:46, 8 November 2018 (UTC)

Hi Itti: I archived the proposal because I didn't know where the discussion should go; TheDJ moved it to Wikimedia Forum#mw.toolbar back or global gadget as a replacement. I understand that you feel affronted because I'm following the rules of the Wishlist Survey, but the Wishlist Survey is very important to all of the other contributors who are submitting proposals and voting on them. We can't allow the survey process to be disrupted by a protest, even if the people who are protesting feel very strongly about it. It wouldn't be fair. -- DannyH (WMF) (talk) 22:08, 8 November 2018 (UTC)

Hi, I think you don´t understand me. It is not a kind of protest or what ever. It is a problem. In the past a lot of times funktions of "private" skipts didn´t work after a change of media-Wiki. (sorry, I don´t know the right word). Then the answer was: Its a private skipt, change it. Lot of editors are not able to "change it". So I thing it is important that some very rural funktions are given by the WMF. So for example the signature and the special signs of languages. It is not easy to write an article without this. Sorry for my english. But it is not so easy, you think. It is not only de-wiki dealing with this problems, other too. Regards --Itti (talk) 22:15, 8 November 2018 (UTC)

But it was fine to allow some devs to steal much needed tools from the editors without proper consultation and former warning? If you create such a havoc, don't cry foul if those you slapped in the face come here to your place and use the best current venue to protest this anti-editor behaviour. Grüße vom Sänger ♫^(Reden) 22:19, 8 November 2018 (UTC)

Ah yeah, some mentioning of nerdy stuff like commons.js or such are no valid solution, they are just workaround tactics for technical affine people, and those, that go to meta venues, not normal editors that just want to write articles in plain prose. Grüße vom Sänger ♫^(Reden) 22:24, 8 November 2018 (UTC)

Hi Sänger, thanks for putting together the proposal: Community Wishlist Survey 2019/Editing/Keep the lightweight text editor. That's exactly what we needed; now people can vote on the proposal. -- DannyH (WMF) (talk) 22:31, 8 November 2018 (UTC)

??? Why was my wish not correct?????? --Itti (talk) 22:33, 8 November 2018 (UTC)

Is ist possible to have a "wrong wish?" --Itti (talk) 22:35, 8 November 2018 (UTC)

Itti, is the change that you want described in Community Wishlist Survey 2019/Editing/Keep the lightweight text editor? -- DannyH (WMF) (talk) 22:36, 8 November 2018 (UTC)

Sorry Itti, falls ich Dir ins Wort falle.

Ich denke nicht, Itti ging wohl davon aus, dass der Texteditor sowieso bleibt und wollte primär die Tools wiederhaben. Ich habe das grundsätzlicher, aber nicht so speziell gefordert. Angesichts des völlig absurden, aber wohl ernst gemeinten, Vorschlags den 2017er Editor als Alternative zu nutzen hielt ich mein grundsätzliches Anliegen für wichtig. Das von Itti ist allerdings ebenso wichtig, die willkürliche Kastration des Texteditors sollte auch zurückgenommen werden, das habe ich nur weiter unten auch erwähnt.

I don't think so, Itti seemed to work on the pretext, the the old text editor will stay in any case and wanted to have the Tools back. I asked more fundamental, not just for that tools. In the light of some complete absurd, but probably serious meant, proposal to use the 2017 "text" editor as an alternative I thought my basic proposal was needed. But the proposal by Itty is as much needed, the arbitrary castration of the text editor should be taken back, something I mentioned as well further down my proposal.

Grüße vom Sänger ♫^(Reden) 22:49, 8 November 2018 (UTC)

Auf Deutsch: Ich habe die Anfrage, den Wunsch eingestellt, weil ich die dringende Notwendigkeit sah. Wenn ihr, die "Wünscheerfüller" nicht versteht, worum es geht, dann solltet ihr FRAGEN. Nicht den Wunsch ins Archiv verschieben, oder in den Sumpf, oder wohin auch immer. Ihr habt mit eurer Änderung viele aktive Autoren, global, massiv behindert. Sie können nicht mehr signieren, sie haben keinen Zugriff mehr auf Sonderzeichen und vieles mehr. Das sollte euch schon etwas mehr wert sein, als ein "Sänger hat es nun besser formuliert". Sorry, aber ich bin seit 2004 aktiv, habe mich sehr eingesetzt und dafür auch viel abbekommen. Nun ist ein guter Punkt, um zu überdenken, ob es das wert ist. Danke dafür! --Itti (talk) 22:50, 8 November 2018 (UTC)

Itti: Does this work for you? Community Wishlist Survey 2019/Editing/Put mw.toolbar back -- DannyH (WMF) (talk) 15:05, 9 November 2018 (UTC)

Hi DannyH, Thank you very much for your efforts. I think everything just went wrong. I tried to represent my request. I consider it is extremely important that the authors have at their disposal reasonable tools to work with. Something can change, no issue, but the shutdown was not good. This caused two problems in my eyes and I´m probably not happy with them. One problem was the emergency relief, but the second and much more important is that authors must be given what they need for their work. This in a stable form that does not dissolve with every change of the Mediawiki software like dust in the air. Recently, there were serious problems with the old Monobook scripts. Answers are always: These are private scripts, you have to adjust them yourself. But many pople are not able to do that and they are very helpless. Here, in this case I want to avoid this implication and my wish is that such important tools are maintained and kept by you professionals. Whether this is the result of the request of Sänger, I hope it is enough then and it is not necessary to have a second request. Meanwhile, the handling of my wish annoys me no more longer, because I think it was not evil intention. But my request was no joke or what ever. Regards --Itti (talk) 15:56, 9 November 2018 (UTC)

Hello, DannyH_(WMF),

thank you for adding the wish back to the list.

I still do not understand how exactly my Overview contribution that retraces

• the origin of this wish (even though I do understand that you might want to exclude even the slightest trace of criticism concerning the widely perceived communication-failure as the origin),
• adds information on recent developments that might spare developper-effort as well as possible enhancements and
• clarifies common misunderstandings in both the first and second thread

does anything but further the debate and subsequently an informed vote on the wish. The subtitles I used, which might have felt a bit over the top, are entirely optional and were just meant to properly structure my contribution, they may very well be reduced to simple text.

It seems that at least the official remark about the end of the proposal phase and the desire to continue a lively discussion until the voting phase, previously present, was also caught in the crossfire. Also, at least a note with a link to the archived proposal, that would allow users unaware of the previous debate to read, should they desire to do so, quite a bit of substantial information including the numerous projects concerned, seems appropriate.

I'd be most grateful, if you could give that a careful second thought and kindly reconsider to add back at least the parts which do nothing but clarify misunderstandings and add value to the debate by updating recent developments. There is no particular urge and it is perfectly fine to sleep over it, if you don't perceive an immediate need to take my wish into consideration ;-) .

Best regards --Eloquenzministerium (talk) 00:04, 14 November 2018 (UTC)

Hi Eloquenzministerium: for the purposes of the Wishlist Survey, I'm happy to have the two proposals up, as long as there isn't ongoing, disruptive drama around them that overshadows the other proposals on the page. The problem that you're talking about has absolutely nothing to do with the Community Tech team, and it doesn't need to be documented on Wishlist Survey pages.

In addition to those two proposals and your lengthy historical context post, Sänger also posted a separate protest-focused proposal, "Communication platform between devs and editors is needed". I understand the desire to protest an action that you feel was unfair. The Community Wishlist Survey is not the place to fight about it. Right now, the only thing you're accomplishing is making me feel tired, which doesn't help your cause in any way. Can I ask you to please just let these proposals go through without any more trouble? -- DannyH (WMF) (talk) 00:59, 14 November 2018 (UTC)

<squeeze>The action by the WMF against very productive parts of the community is just another sign of their detachment from the core of the wikiverse, the authors that provide the bulk of content. The whole wikiverse is about the content, and as it grew so big, that only volunteers couldn't manage any longer, some service entities were founded, that should do the menial work, the communities were no longer able to do good enough on a voluntary base. Programmers for software maintenance according to community wishes, accountants to properly manage the communities money, lawyers, that protect the communities from judicial harm, event organizers, that organise the community gatherings etc. Here it's about the software maintenance department, and how they manage to implement the community wishes, i,e, do their core work. How this could be organised and how the superiors, the content providers, can get their needs heard, understand and acted upon.

The trouble started, when you ditched some much needed part of the tools, the content providers build the content providing on, without asking them about it in a proper way. You simply ditched essential tools without proper notice, and obviously even didn't get it, that there was no proper notice, as all was in the open in som phab, but Phabricator is no open communication with content providers, that's the communication platform for the software maintainers, no normal author will ever go there. The software maintainers have the duty to get consent for their maintenance work, if they make such far reaching decisions about their work surroundings. It's quite telling, that obviously you didn't even get it, that this decision was something very disruptive, that your assessments were quite wrong.

You are the Community Tech department, and with this name obviously the one, that should have the duty to get the consent about tech decision from the communities before any action (except emergency cases, which was needed but not given by the WMF after the disruptive change was introduced. You should be the community voice, i.e. a kind of veto voice, for decisions like this. Or do you think of your department as the one, that should sugarcoat unwanted WMF-decisions and sell them to the communities?

I know, it's not exactly a technical wish, but it's about the core of the problems with the dealing with the technical wishes of the communities, that should be paramount to any decision taken for the wikiverse. So if there is another prominent venue, where it's not just shoved in the shades and be happily ignored by the WMF like tons of other community wishes before, put it there, but not again hostile archiving of unwanted wishes, like in the past. Grüße vom Sänger ♫^(Reden) 05:33, 14 November 2018 (UTC)

Whatever problem there might be with whatever Sänger is doing, should best be discussed with him. I perfectly see your point of view, even though I think that the origin of the problem should not be obscured, but am reluctantly willing to go along with it in order to avoid any further trouble.

However, the general annoyance you might feel about the Germans and their, at times, and myself included, contributions which might lack the diplomatically reserved tone desired here, should not tire you to the point, where you throw out clearly value-adding parts of the debate, which should, even in your very own opinion, be only in part of doubtful interest.

As I suggested, let's see, if a good nights sleep won't help to clear this up and make us feel like we found a modus vivendi acceptable to all stakeholders.

As we finally strive both for the same goal, an ongoing amelioration of the usability, could you kindly, being far more experienced in those matters, point me in the right direction, where there are the best chances to implement a policy which would avoid such problems altogether by obligating a discussion at large, beyond the nerdy backroom-exchanges completely out of sight for normal authors?

I think such a debate, leaving time to consider all the options, is owed to the authors by the devs whenever such drastic changes are planned. In this case, it was very obviously much to the surprise of lots of high-value editors across many WP-projects and the force of the opposition that annoyed you, would certainly best be avoided altogether in the future.

A sensible policy change in this direction would probably be something you could get behind as well, as it would very much contribute to improve a clearly lacking communication between those who should be in charge of improving the software, and do a great job at it most of the time, and the users, who rightly expect these evolutions, even though they might not praise clear progress in a certainly merited way, to be to their benefit and the overall goal to improve Wikipedia.

Being already more than a little late in my timezone, I will now go to bed and sincerely wish, that our exchange will, in spite of our partial differences in opinion, take a turn to friendlier dialogues in the future. Hopefully, we can strive together to change this conversation, that started out in an unfortunate way, into a search for solutions towards the goals we seem to have in common.

Best regards --Eloquenzministerium (talk) 02:12, 14 November 2018 (UTC)

Eloquenzministerium and Sänger: The best person to talk to about sunsetting the 2006 editor is Whatamidoing (WMF). She managed the project, and the communication around it. The way it was done is not actually what I would consider the best way to handle it, and I don't want to have user-facing changes released in that way again. That being said, Whatamidoing believes that the problem you're experiencing is not directly related to sunsetting the 2006 editor. You should all talk about this together, but not on the Wishlist Survey. -- DannyH (WMF) (talk) 05:40, 14 November 2018 (UTC)

So where is the official venue for such far reaching changes and the consultation of the most affected users? It can't be some random users talk page, even if they have (WMF) behind their user name. As the name suggests, Community Tech should be just the place for such things. To complain at Whatamidoing (WMF) talk page is not something I consider even remotely productive, not because of Whatamidoing (WMF) but more because of general considerations. I don't have the impression, that complaints by the community are really taken serious by those, who hold some stake in a a particular software development. The misguiding menues in the MV, that keep sending users instead of to the picture pages to some useless MV-Feedback page (phab:T133899, in combination with mw:Extension_talk:Media_Viewer/About) is open since 2.5 years, and nobody gives a flying f*** about it. The shiny new bling forced on the communities against their will with pure might and use of ruthless force is now running, so nobody has to care about its maintenance any longer. That's the general impression the WMF is giving with most of their actions. Grüße vom Sänger ♫^(Reden) 08:10, 14 November 2018 (UTC)

The official venue is the project page, which you can read at mw:Contributors/Projects/Removal of the 2006 wikitext editor. Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 16:56, 14 November 2018 (UTC)

Clarification

Hello, DannyH,

would you like to clarifiy

• why a couple of days ago, you insisted to remove my complete contribution, including parts which were not remotely inappropriate even by your standards then, from the Sänger-version of the wish before moving it back from the archive?
• why you now declare Ittis duplicate as a legit entry, an entry heavily insisting on the very point you previously declared to be out of scope during the discussion phase and archived it for that reason only days ago?
• whether you plan to disqualify the wish later, should it make it into the top ten?

Even though I try really hard to be understanding, as of today, I am completely and utterly confused by your inconsistent behaviour and would be really grateful for an explication I can wrap my head around.

Best regards --Eloquenzministerium (talk) 18:56, 19 November 2018 (UTC)

Eloquenzministerium: I am also very confused by this situation, so it's regrettable but not surprising that my actions have been inconsistent. I know that there were discussions on German Wikipedia in late October about mw.toolbar, and ways to fix the gadgets that depended on it. As far as I know, there are several different approaches to that problem, and right now, I don't know which is the correct one. I know that some people are also angry about the way that the change was announced and discussed.

In that situation, I think it's absolutely appropriate for someone to write a Community Wishlist Survey proposal asking the Community Tech team to investigate the problem, so the team can work with the community to figure out the best solution. I'm glad that we have at least one proposal on the Survey that can address that issue.

However, I also want to make sure that the Survey process is not disrupted by long, angry disputes about issues that have nothing to do with the Wishlist Survey. There are a lot of people who depend on this process to bring attention to the features and fixes that they want to see. The Survey should stay focused on making those proposals, and voting on them. There is no room on the Survey for protests about WMF policy.

When these issues came up on the Survey, I tried to figure out what the actual technical proposal was, so that we could focus on that. I was given several answers. I archived the original proposal because the discussion was angry and not relevant to the Survey. At that time, I offered to take the technical proposal back into the Survey, as long as it could be treated like a Survey proposal and not a protest against the WMF. Sänger wrote a proposal which I thought addressed the concerns, so that was fine. Then Itti told me that they were very upset, because Sänger's proposal didn't satisfy their concerns. I decided -- for the sake of peace and quiet, so that the Survey wouldn't be disrupted -- that we could re-post Itti's proposal as well. My main concern has been to allow the Wishlist Survey to proceed, peacefully.

If either proposal (or both proposals) end up in the top 10 at the end of the voting period, then the Community Tech team will investigate the situation, taking all of the previous discussion into account. The team will ask questions and discuss the problem with the German WP community. Through that discussion, they'll arrive at a solution to the problem that I hope will fit everyone's needs. That is the same way that the Community Tech team addresses every Wishlist proposal in the top 10.

I hope that answers your questions about the Wishlist Survey, and the status of the proposals. If you want to talk more about the toolbar and the gadgets, the appropriate place is the project page, here: mw:Contributors/Projects/Removal of the 2006 wikitext editor. Let me know if I can help with anything else. -- DannyH (WMF) (talk) 19:30, 19 November 2018 (UTC)

Why did you move Talk pages consultation 2019 from the community project to the software project?

You recently moved Talk pages consultation 2019 away from her, the meta project for the communities, to mw:Talk pages consultation 2019, the pure technical software project. Communication about content, that's what talk pages are good for, is a matter for the community, the software has to strictly follow the community wishes, not the other way around, and the discussion should take place in a community environment, not a technical environment. So why did you move the page away from the community towards the software? Grüße vom Sänger ♫^(Reden) 21:52, 14 November 2018 (UTC)

Sänger: The talk page project is a software development project. I was asked by a couple of collaborators to move the discussion to Mediawiki, and I didn't see a reason not to. I think there are lots of people on both sites. -- DannyH (WMF) (talk) 21:59, 14 November 2018 (UTC)

Talk pages are for the community, the software just has to follow the needs of the community, not the other way around. To invent the next LQT/FLOW-disaster in some community-detached backroom and present it afterwards to the community is just the way to create the next disaster. Meta is the venue for the communities, to quote the front page: Welcome to Meta-Wiki, the global community site for the Wikimedia Foundation's projects and related projects, from coordination and documentation to planning and analysis. MW is just for the technical nerds, not the whole community. How to improve articles and other content best on talk pages is for the community to decide, not some software developers. Grüße vom Sänger ♫^(Reden) 22:05, 14 November 2018 (UTC)

As we say on that page, the consultation will involve lots of conversations, held on lots of different wikis. There will be lots of opportunities for people to participate, and obviously you're welcome to participate on that page on Mediawiki. -- DannyH (WMF) (talk) 22:20, 14 November 2018 (UTC)

No, I'm not, because I insisted too hard on the proven possibility, that VE is possible on talk pages against the wishes of the devs, that wanted to hide that fact to push FLOW, I got blocked in this shady backroom kangaroo court called CoC. One other reason to not go there for community issues, as banning/blocking is not done in an open process, but on the whim of some kangaroo court without any real possibility to have input as a dissident. Grüße vom Sänger ♫^(Reden) 05:29, 15 November 2018 (UTC)

I've been lurking a bit in Phab, and came around this one, where I read between the lines a lot about installation of the software anywhere, for example here: [44]. But that's not the problem, outside projects, that use the software as well, are not deciding on Wikiversum solutions. This is about the Wikiversum, not rechenkraft or such, they have to use what's given to them, the Wikiversum ist the place for decisions on our software. MW is far too much as well about completely uninteresting third-party uses, I couldn't care less about them. That's the reason why such inner-Wikiversum consultation processes should take place in a community venue, i.e. here, not there. All this is mostly about existing and well established projects, and how they want their project to look and behave like. If the Wikiversum projects want article talk pages, and that's the core use of talk pages, the rest is just nice to have, in a certain way, then that's the way they have to look like, bugger rechenkraft or anyone else outside this here (and I'm a paying member of rechenkraft;). Grüße vom Sänger ♫^(Reden) 17:34, 17 November 2018 (UTC)

Hi Sänger: Like I said, there will be lots of conversations on lots of different wikis as part of the consultation. The home base for the project will be wikimedia.org, but there will probably be some conversations here on Meta, and definitely on German Wikipedia. I don't agree that having the project hosted on wikimedia creates any philosophical barriers to community participation. I'm sorry to hear that you can't contribute there. -- DannyH (WMF) (talk) 19:05, 17 November 2018 (UTC)

It's not hosted on wikimedia, that's here, it's hosted on MediaWiki, the pure software part, not the community part. So by this decision of removing from the community venue to the pure technical software venue you made a clear statement: the community must not have too much input here, it's an ivory tower decision, that the community has to swallow, and be it with superprotect. Grüße vom Sänger ♫^(Reden) 19:15, 17 November 2018 (UTC)

Vote counts

Can you program the bot to update the vote counts for each proposal at Community Wishlist Survey 2019/Tracking? Thanks! Winged Blades of Godric (talk) 16:59, 17 November 2018 (UTC)

Hi Winged Blades of Godric: We're going to start publicly posting the vote counts after a week has gone by, so it doesn't prejudice the early voting. But I can tell you that so far, the Page Curation proposal is #1 by far. If you all keep it up, the proposal should do very well. -- DannyH (WMF) (talk) 19:00, 17 November 2018 (UTC)

Thanks, that sounds fine:-)Winged Blades of Godric (talk) 19:05, 17 November 2018 (UTC)

Winged Blades of Godric: The tracking page is live now. -- DannyH (WMF) (talk) 19:00, 19 November 2018 (UTC)

Your

implication that I was acting in a disruptive way that damages the survey is noted. You need to assume good faith of others, read edit-summaries of diff(s) and above all, ask your fellow-employees to be damn certain about what they speak.Winged Blades of Godric (talk) 05:48, 1 December 2018 (UTC)

Winged Blades of Godric: I meant to refer to the protest votes and ensuing arguments as disruptive, not your copy-paste, which I agree was just following that earlier promise. I clarified in a further message in that conversation; I apologize for being unclear about that. -- DannyH (WMF) (talk) 06:12, 1 December 2018 (UTC)

Any

definite time-frame for the start of work on this year's CWL-wishes? And, best wishes for the holidays and the ensuing year:-) Winged Blades of Godric (talk) 08:39, 24 December 2018 (UTC)

Not

yet, we'll let you know. :) -- DannyH (WMF) (talk) 20:03, 1 January 2019 (UTC)

Editing News #1—July 2019

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Since the last newsletter, the team has released two new features for the mobile visual editor and has started developing three more. All of this work is part of the team's goal to make editing on mobile web simpler.

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The VisualEditor on mobile is a good place to learn more about the projects we are working on. The team wants to talk with you about anything related to editing. If you have something to say or ask, please leave a message at Talk:VisualEditor on mobile.

PPelberg (WMF) (talk) & Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk)

18:33, 23 July 2019 (UTC)

Editing News #2 – Mobile editing and talk pages

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Inside this newsletter, the Editing team talks about their work on the mobile visual editor, on the new talk pages project, and at Wikimania 2019.

Help

What talk page interactions do you remember? Is it a story about how someone helped you to learn something new? Is it a story about how someone helped you get involved in a group? Something else? Whatever your story is, we want to hear it!

Please tell us a story about how you used a talk page. Please share a link to a memorable discussion, or describe it on the talk page for this project. The team wants your examples. These examples will help everyone develop a shared understanding of what this project should support and encourage.

Talk pages project

The Talk Pages Consultation was a global consultation to define better tools for wiki communication. From February through June 2019, more than 500 volunteers on 20 wikis, across 15 languages and multiple projects, came together with members of the Foundation to create a product direction for a set of discussion tools. The Phase 2 Report of the Talk Page Consultation was published in August. It summarizes the product direction the team has started to work on, which you can read more about here: Talk Page Project project page.

The team needs and wants your help at this early stage. They are starting to develop the first idea. Please add your name to the "Getting involved" section of the project page, if you would like to hear about opportunities to participate.

Mobile visual editor

The Editing team is trying to make it simpler to edit on mobile devices. The team is changing the visual editor on mobile. If you have something to say about editing on a mobile device, please leave a message at Talk:VisualEditor on mobile.

Edit Cards

What happens when you click on a link. The new Edit Card is bigger and has more options for editing links.

• On 3 September, the Editing team released version 3 of Edit Cards. Anyone could use the new version in the mobile visual editor.
• There is an updated design on the Edit Card for adding and modifying links. There is also a new, combined workflow for editing a link's display text and target.
• Feedback: You can try the new Edit Cards by opening the mobile visual editor on a smartphone. Please post your feedback on the Edit cards talk page.

Toolbar

The editing toolbar is changing in the mobile visual editor. The old system had two different toolbars. Now, all the buttons are together. Tell the team what you think about the new toolbar.

• In September, the Editing team updated the mobile visual editor's editing toolbar. Anyone could see these changes in the mobile visual editor.
  • One toolbar: All of the editing tools are located in one toolbar. Previously, the toolbar changed when you clicked on different things.
  • New navigation: The buttons for moving forward and backward in the edit flow have changed.
  • Seamless switching: an improved workflow for switching between the visual and wikitext modes.
• Feedback: You can try the refreshed toolbar by opening the mobile VisualEditor on a smartphone. Please post your feedback on the Toolbar feedback talk page.

Wikimania

The Editing Team attended Wikimania 2019 in Sweden. They led a session on the mobile visual editor and a session on the new talk pages project. They tested two new features in the mobile visual editor with contributors. You can read more about what the team did and learned in the team's report on Wikimania 2019.

Looking ahead

• Talk Pages Project: The team is thinking about the first set of proposed changes. The team will be working with a few communities to pilot those changes. The best way to stay informed is by adding your username to the list on the project page: Getting involved.
• Testing the mobile visual editor as the default: The Editing team plans to post results before the end of the calendar year. The best way to stay informed is by adding the project page to your watchlist: VisualEditor as mobile default project page.
• Measuring the impact of Edit Cards: This study asks whether the project helped editors add links and citations. The Editing team hopes to share results in November. The best way to stay informed is by adding the project page to your watchlist: Edit Cards project page.

– PPelberg (WMF) (talk) & Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk)

11:11, 29 October 2019 (UTC)

Edit for security

Hi! I'm a user who has basically never used Meta Wikimedia. I tried to edit your page for HTTPS security, not knowing that I am unable to, due to a rule in the program. Please edit the page to the code of the page stored at User:DemonDays64/Edit request; it secures three links with HTTPS. Thank you!!! DemonDays64 (talk) 05:07, 29 December 2019 (UTC)

Hi Demondays64: Okay, I changed the links to https. Thanks! DannyH (WMF) (talk) 17:09, 2 January 2020 (UTC)

Editing news 2020 #1 – Discussion tools

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This early version of the Reply tool automatically signs and indents comments.

The Editing team has been working on the talk pages project. The goal of the talk pages project is to help contributors communicate on wiki more easily. This project is the result of the Talk pages consultation 2019.

In a future update, the team plans to test a tool for easily linking to another user's name, a rich-text editing option, and other tools.

The team is building a new tool for replying to comments now. This early version can sign and indent comments automatically. Please test the new Reply tool.

• On 31 March 2020, the new reply tool was offered as a Beta Feature editors at four Wikipedias: Arabic, Dutch, French, and Hungarian. If your community also wants early access to the new tool, contact User:Whatamidoing (WMF).
• The team is planning some upcoming changes. Please review the proposed design and share your thoughts on the talk page. The team will test features such as:
  • an easy way to mention another editor ("pinging"),
  • a rich-text visual editing option, and
  • other features identified through user testing or recommended by editors.

To hear more about Editing Team updates, please add your name to the "Get involved" section of the project page. You can also watch these pages: the main project page, Updates, Replying, and User testing.

– PPelberg (WMF) (talk) & Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk)

19:05, 8 April 2020 (UTC)

Editing news 2020 #2

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The new features include a toolbar. What do you think should be in the toolbar?

This issue of the Editing newsletter includes information the Talk pages project, an effort to help contributors communicate on wiki more easily.

• Reply tool: This is available as a Beta Feature at the four partner wikis (Arabic, Dutch, French, and Hungarian Wikipedias). The Beta Feature is called "Discussion tools". The Beta Feature will get new features soon. The new features include writing comments in a new visual editing mode and pinging other users by typing @. You can test the new features on the Beta Cluster now. Some other wikis will have a chance to try the Beta Feature in the coming months.
• New requirements for user signatures: Soon, users will not be able to save invalid custom signatures in Special:Preferences. This will reduce signature spoofing, prevent page corruption, and make new talk page tools more reliable. Most editors will not be affected.
• New discussion tool: The Editing team is beginning work on a simpler process for starting new discussions. You can see the initial design on the project page.
• Research on the use of talk pages: The Editing team worked with the Wikimedia research team to study how talk pages help editors improve articles. We learned that new editors who use talk pages make more edits to the main namespace than new editors who don't use talk pages.

– Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk)

20:29, 17 June 2020 (UTC)

Thank you for helping to create the Wikimedia 2030 Movement Strategy Recommendations

		Wikimedia 2030
		Thank you for your guidance to myself and the Core Team as well as your ongoing commitment toward our movement’s future and the creation of the Wikimedia 2030 Movement Strategy Recommendations! --KStineRowe (WMF) (talk) 22:03, 29 June 2020 (UTC)

Editing news 2020 #3

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More than 50 million edits have been made using the visual editor on desktop.

Seven years ago this month, the Editing team offered the visual editor to most Wikipedia editors. Since then, editors have achieved many milestones:

• More than 50 million edits have been made using the visual editor on desktop.
• More than 2 million new articles have been created in the visual editor. More than 600,000 of these new articles were created during 2019.
• The visual editor is increasingly popular. The proportion of all edits made using the visual editor has increased every year since its introduction.
• In 2019, 35% of the edits by newcomers (logged-in editors with ≤99 edits) used the visual editor. This percentage has increased every year.
• Almost 5 million edits on the mobile site have been made with the visual editor. Most of these edits have been made since the Editing team started improving the mobile visual editor in 2018.
• On 17 November 2019, the first edit from outer space was made in the mobile visual editor. 🚀 👩‍🚀
• Editors have made more than 7 million edits in the 2017 wikitext editor, including starting 600,000 new articles in it. The 2017 wikitext editor is VisualEditor's built-in wikitext mode. You can enable it in your preferences.

Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk)

12:48, 9 July 2020 (UTC)

Editing news 2020 #4

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Reply tool

The number of comments posted with the Reply Tool from March through June 2020. People used the Reply Tool to post over 7,400 comments with the tool.

The Reply tool has been available as a Beta Feature at the Arabic, Dutch, French and Hungarian Wikipedias since 31 March 2020. The first analysis showed positive results.

• More than 300 editors used the Reply tool at these four Wikipedias. They posted more than 7,400 replies during the study period.
• Of the people who posted a comment with the Reply tool, about 70% of them used the tool multiple times. About 60% of them used it on multiple days.
• Comments from Wikipedia editors are positive. One said, أعتقد أن الأداة تقدم فائدة ملحوظة؛ فهي تختصر الوقت لتقديم رد بدلًا من التنقل بالفأرة إلى وصلة تعديل القسم أو الصفحة، التي تكون بعيدة عن التعليق الأخير في الغالب، ويصل المساهم لصندوق التعديل بسرعة باستخدام الأداة. ("I think the tool has a significant impact; it saves time to reply while the classic way is to move with a mouse to the Edit link to edit the section or the page which is generally far away from the comment. And the user reaches to the edit box so quickly to use the Reply tool.")[45]

The Editing team released the Reply tool as a Beta Feature at eight other Wikipedias in early August. Those Wikipedias are in the Chinese, Czech, Georgian, Serbian, Sorani Kurdish, Swedish, Catalan, and Korean languages. If you would like to use the Reply tool at your wiki, please tell User talk:Whatamidoing (WMF).

The Reply tool is still in active development. Per request from the Dutch Wikipedia and other editors, you will be able to customize the edit summary. (The default edit summary is "Reply".) A "ping" feature is available in the Reply tool's visual editing mode. This feature searches for usernames. Per request from the Arabic Wikipedia, each wiki will be able to set its own preferred symbol for pinging editors. Per request from editors at the Japanese and Hungarian Wikipedias, each wiki can define a preferred signature prefix in the page MediaWiki:Discussiontools-signature-prefix. For example, some languages omit spaces before signatures. Other communities want to add a dash or a non-breaking space.

New requirements for user signatures

• The new requirements for custom user signatures began on 6 July 2020. If you try to create a custom signature that does not meet the requirements, you will get an error message.
• Existing custom signatures that do not meet the new requirements will be unaffected temporarily. Eventually, all custom signatures will need to meet the new requirements. You can check your signature and see lists of active editors whose custom signatures need to be corrected. Volunteers have been contacting editors who need to change their custom signatures. If you need to change your custom signature, then please read the help page.

Next: New discussion tool

Next, the team will be working on a tool for quickly and easily starting a new discussion section to a talk page. To follow the development of this new tool, please put the New Discussion Tool project page on your watchlist.

Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk)

15:11, 31 August 2020 (UTC)

Editing news 2021 #1

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Reply tool

Completion rates for comments made with the Reply tool and full-page wikitext editing. Details and limitations are in this report.

The Reply tool is available at most Wikipedias.

• The Reply tool has been deployed as an opt-out preference to all editors at the Arabic, Czech, and Hungarian Wikipedias.
• It is also available as a Beta Feature at almost all Wikipedias except for the English, Russian, and German-language Wikipedias. If it is not available at your wiki, you can request it by following these simple instructions.

Research notes:

• As of January 2021, more than 3,500 editors have used the Reply tool to post about 70,000 comments.
• We have preliminary data from the Arabic, Czech, and Hungarian Wikipedia on the Reply tool. Junior Contributors who use the Reply tool are more likely to publish the comments they start writing than those who use full-page wikitext editing.[46]
• The Editing and Parsing teams have significantly reduced the number of edits that affect other parts of the page. About 0.3% of edits did this during the last month.[47] Some of the remaining changes are automatic corrections for Special:LintErrors.
• A large A/B test will start soon.[48] This is part of the process to offer the Reply tool to everyone. During this test, half of all editors at 24 Wikipedias will have the Reply tool automatically enabled, and half will not. You can still turn it on or off for your own account in Special:Preferences.

New discussion tool

Screenshot of version 1.0 of the New Discussion Tool prototype.

The new tool for starting new discussions (new sections) will join the Discussion tools in Special:Preferences#mw-prefsection-betafeatures at the end of January. You can try the tool for yourself.[49] You can leave feedback in this thread or on the talk page.

Next: Notifications

During Talk pages consultation 2019, editors said that it should be easier to know about new activity in conversations they are interested in. The Notifications project is just beginning. What would help you become aware of new comments? What's working with the current system? Which pages at your wiki should the team look at? Please post your advice at notifications-talk.

–Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk)

18:38, 21 January 2021 (UTC)

Editing news 2021 #2

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When newcomers had the Reply tool and tried to post on a talk page, they were more successful at posting a comment. (Source)

Earlier this year, the Editing team ran a large study of the Reply Tool. The main goal was to find out whether the Reply Tool helped newer editors communicate on wiki. The second goal was to see whether the comments that newer editors made using the tool needed to be reverted more frequently than comments newer editors made with the existing wikitext page editor.

The key results were:

• Newer editors who had automatic ("default on") access to the Reply tool were more likely to post a comment on a talk page.
• The comments that newer editors made with the Reply Tool were also less likely to be reverted than the comments that newer editors made with page editing.

These results give the Editing team confidence that the tool is helpful.

Looking ahead

The team is planning to make the Reply tool available to everyone as an opt-out preference in the coming months. This has already happened at the Arabic, Czech, and Hungarian Wikipedias.

The next step is to resolve a technical challenge. Then, they will deploy the Reply tool first to the Wikipedias that participated in the study. After that, they will deploy it, in stages, to the other Wikipedias and all WMF-hosted wikis.

You can turn on "Discussion tools" in Beta Features now. After you get the Reply tool, you can change your preferences at any time in Special:Preferences#mw-prefsection-editing-discussion.

–Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk)

14:12, 24 June 2021 (UTC)

Editing news 2022 #1

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New editors were more successful with this new tool.

The New topic tool helps editors create new ==Sections== on discussion pages. New editors are more successful with this new tool. You can read the report. Soon, the Editing team will offer this to all editors at the 20 Wikipedias that participated in the test. You will be able to turn it off at Special:Preferences#mw-prefsection-editing-discussion.

Whatamidoing (WMF) 18:43, 2 May 2022 (UTC)

A personal plea

End the VPN ban. Please. My contributions speak for themselves, and it is unjust to block me from editing because I want to protect my privacy. I don't want to have to choose between privacy and contributing to Wikimedia Commons. PDMagazineCoverUploading (talk) 18:24, 5 May 2022 (UTC)

Editing news 2022 #2

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The [subscribe] button shortens response times.

The new [subscribe] button notifies people when someone replies to their comments. It helps newcomers get answers to their questions. People reply sooner. You can read the report. The Editing team is turning this tool on for everyone. You will be able to turn it off in your preferences.

–Whatamidoing (WMF) 23:35, 29 August 2022 (UTC)

Editing news 2023 #1

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This newsletter includes two key updates about the Editing team's work:

1. The Editing team will finish adding new features to the Talk pages project and deploy it.
2. They are beginning a new project, Edit check.

Talk pages project

Some of the upcoming changes

The Editing team is nearly finished with this first phase of the Talk pages project. Nearly all new features are available now in the Beta Feature for Discussion tools.

It will show information about how active a discussion is, such as the date of the most recent comment. There will soon be a new "Add topic" button. You will be able to turn them off at Special:Preferences#mw-prefsection-editing-discussion. Please tell them what you think.

Daily edit completion rate by test group: DiscussionTools (test group) and MobileFrontend overlay (control group)

An A/B test for Discussion tools on the mobile site has finished. Editors were more successful with Discussion tools. The Editing team is enabling these features for all editors on the mobile site.

New Project: Edit Check

The Editing team is beginning a project to help new editors of Wikipedia. It will help people identify some problems before they click "Publish changes". The first tool will encourage people to add references when they add new content. Please watch that page for more information. You can join a conference call on 3 March 2023 to learn more.

–Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 23:18, 22 February 2023 (UTC)