Wikimedia Forum/Archives/2020-12

Reminder: still accepting applications for Ombuds Commission

Hi folks, this is just a reminder that we are still accepting applications for the 2021 Ombuds Commission. See my original post for full details, but in short: this commission investigates violations of the privacy, Oversight, and Checkuser policies. We're looking for trustworthy, experienced community members who are willing to serve for a year on this committee. If you're interested, please email me at kbrown wikimedia org to detail your experience on the projects, your thoughts on the commission and what you hope to bring to the role. The deadline for applications is 31 December, 2020. Kbrown (WMF) (talk) 13:50, 2 December 2020 (UTC)

Do interwiki links work on all sites?

It surprises me that one interwiki prefix only works on Wikisource and Wikiversity, that is mul:. For example, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/mul: redirects to the page Mul: on enwiki, but https://en.wikiversity.org/wiki/mul: links to https://beta.wikiversity.org why is that? Is this the only case like this? --AJ1m3,zsd. (talk) 00:33, 3 December 2020 (UTC)

@AJ1m3,zsd.: "mul" is unique for Wikisources as it is an interlanguage shortcut, other wikisisters don't have a mul. If you wish to link to mulWS from outside of the WS domain then you need to double link s:mul:. One needs to sometimes differentiate between interlanguage and inter-sister shortcuts.; and this is no different to other wikis where you want to do both a language and sister jump. Special:Interwiki is your key.  — billinghurst sDrewth 01:30, 3 December 2020 (UTC)
@Billinghurst: So "mul" is disabled on other wikis because they don't have a multilingual wiki site, I'm assuming. Also, you can also use oldwikisource: on other wikis and it will work as well. --AJ1m3,zsd. (talk) 01:36, 3 December 2020 (UTC)
They are not disabled, they do not exist. Your comparison of mul <=> oldwikisource is not a reasonable comparison, different navigation mechanisms in play. See Special:Interwiki. And this is not the place where we run educative discussions on interwikis, if you want to know more about those, then do some reading at mediawikiwiki mw:interwiki.  — billinghurst sDrewth 01:44, 3 December 2020 (UTC)

What an "unacceptable" username!

Ivi104, an administrator of hr.wiki, told me that my username Srijemski Hrvat (A Croat of Syrmia) was unacceptable because it was consisted of the ethnic noun a Croat and regional adjective related to region Syrmia and threatened that he would block me without any remorse me unless I change my username. He referred to some rule that forbids usernames consisted of ethnonyms. As far I can see, that rule only applies there, on Croatian Wikipedia. So I requested another username, but when the change had been done by the global renamer Turkmen, the same administrator of hr.wiki told me that the new username was inappropriate too, so the threat still remains. Obviously, someone enjoys a lot pushing another people around and playing with the ban button when it pleases them for no reason. I don't see any rational reason for me to be blocked or forced to change my name just because someone desperately wants to prove themselves and because of some rules that obviously contradicts and collides with the very Wikipedia's standards, the more so because the same global renamer who changed my username has the username that includes the ethnic name of Turkmens! So I plead for Wikimedia's protection. --Croata Sirmiensis (talk) 00:36, 2 December 2020 (UTC)

That is correct. As part of its local username policy, hrwiki disallows usernames that contain national characteristics.
I've explained the policy to you numerous times, and you refuse to behave accordingly, as evidenced by this name-change into another unacceptable name. If user Turkmen started editing on hrwiki, he would be warned the same as you. I am implementing a standard procedure for hrwiki and as such, I urge you once again to change your username to one without national characteristics. Thank you! Ivi104 (talk) 01:34, 2 December 2020 (UTC)
The Croatian Wikipedia is neither an independent, or autonomous project, but a part of the common Wikipedia project. So you cannot act as a legislator making new laws or rules, nor as a judge deciding what is offensive or not, since the Wikipedia isn't your land or dowry. What is offensive to you may not be offensive to me. You find an expression of national name so unforgivable that it must be punished at all cost. And what is the result of such arrogant and, I am free to say, fascistic policy towards new users? The reason because the Croatian Wikipedia is in such bad situation is because of some people who think they are superior to others. Anyway, who wants to contribute to the Wikipedia where the first thing you get is the warning sign that you might be banned just because someone cannot resist their own arrogance and temptation. The Croatian Wikipedia must follow the common Wikipedia's policy [1], that doesn't explicitly forbids the use of national names.--Stoicus (talk) 15:56, 2 December 2020 (UTC)
@Stoicus: you linked to a policy on the English Wikipedia - and no: no other project is bound by that policy - just as the English Wikipedia isn't bound by the username policy on hrwiki, dewiki, or anywhere else. As hrwiki's only issue appears to be the username, affected editors can just create an additional account for use on hrwiki if they want to edit there. — xaosflux Talk 16:32, 2 December 2020 (UTC)
@Xaosflux: And what is exactly that that permits someone to think that using national names aren't suitable or that are even offensive?--Stoicus (talk) 18:27, 2 December 2020 (UTC)


@Stoicus: See the global Terms of Use - especially the part about about The community undertakes the critical function of creating and enforcing policies for the specific Project editions. — xaosflux Talk 19:53, 2 December 2020 (UTC)
For more follow up on why the hrwiki community has made a specific project edition policy on this, you would need to ask them directly on their project. — xaosflux Talk 19:54, 2 December 2020 (UTC)
@Xaosflux:Yes, I see, but I also can assure you that the policy which some administrators of the Croatian Wikipedia carry out lead the latter to the state that half of their users have left her for good. Just take a look at recent changes of the Croatian Wikipedia. It doesn't take much effort, because the frequency of the changes speaks for itself: Hours may pass since the last edit change is made. And that's the result of such brilliant policy and you can congratulate the user above, cause he/she is one of its the most devoted supporter. It's crystally clear that there are changes to be made and the policy that judges people by their name must stop.--Stoicus (talk) 21:27, 2 December 2020 (UTC)

@Croata Sirmiensis: The wikis all have their policies and if something is considered offensive or problematic we simply accept that and move on. Stop butting your head up against a wall, find an acceptable name and request a change. If one's aim is to edit and to contribute and to have an enjoyable time, then looking to be accepting of quirks of policy, rather than rage against the machines, is such a small measure.  — billinghurst sDrewth 01:16, 3 December 2020 (UTC)

@Stoicus: You turn up here editing as a user of a few days, and in quite an argumentative state. You smell like a sock. Either revert to your previous account, or please take the belligerence somewhere else. If you continue, then maybe we will ask the CU to explore who you are.  — billinghurst sDrewth 01:20, 3 December 2020 (UTC)

@SDrewth: Aw, that's very nice of you. Who has taught you to use such vocabulary? Is that ex-president Trump? And you sir, if I may observe, smell like someone who is very, very allergic to new users or... or... maybe paranoid, if you excuse me. What do you say about that? I may agree it isn't pleasant to hear such things, but, I remind you, you made me do it. And if you are so eager to know, be free to check, and you will be disappointed. I am not joking with you when I say you that I have been threatened with a ban by no apparent reason. What do you expect from me to tell them after such warmly welcome? "Oh, that's nice" I am neither a retard, nor a degenerate to let someone to push me around. Just because someone who knows to defend themselves doesn't mean he is someone's "sock".--Stoicus (talk) 02:10, 3 December 2020 (UTC)

@Stoicus Please observe Meta:Civility here, thanks. And you pinged the alternate of @Billinghurst which will not reach him. (fixed the ping for you here) Camouflaged Mirage (talk) 14:20, 3 December 2020 (UTC)

2020 Coolest Tool Award Ceremony on December 11th

Wikimedia IRC cloak procedure breakdown

The procedure for obtaining an IRC cloak outlined at IRC/Cloaks no longer works and the four contacts listed as "People who administer Wikimedia cloaks" are non-responsive. See for example my follow-up posts to Snowolf. Is there a contact at WMF who can approve a cloak request? JGHowes talk - 16:11, 8 December 2020 (UTC)

@Az1568 and Fox: Might help you. ‐‐1997kB (talk) 16:42, 8 December 2020 (UTC)
Az1568 made no reply here when I asked for help weeks ago. In any case, there seems to be a systemic problem which ought to be corrected. JGHowes talk - 20:54, 8 December 2020 (UTC)
Probably some time for additional cloak checkers.  — billinghurst sDrewth 00:35, 9 December 2020 (UTC)
Yes. I agree. I need to make changes to my IRC cloak. Who should we contact? —Atcovi (Talk - Contribs) 00:55, 9 December 2020 (UTC)
Dungodung has edited srwiki today so I asked here. But I agree that the current situation is concerning and the inactive GCs should be replaced as we have hit the point where they are not reliable. --Rschen7754 01:06, 9 December 2020 (UTC)
Also pinged Fox on enwiki [2]. --Rschen7754 01:09, 9 December 2020 (UTC)
@JGHowes: Your cloak was applied on 18 November 2020 and has been active ever since. Note also that the Wikimedia Foundation doesn't handle IRC issues really at all, it's community-led. — fox 01:41, 9 December 2020 (UTC)
[Edit conflict] I'm still around, must have missed the talk page notification. I would look into the request again, but as Fox said it's already done. --Az1568 (talk) 01:44, 9 December 2020 (UTC)
Thanks for the information, Fox and Az1568. It might be a good idea to change the current procedure of not notifying the cloak requester that it's been approved. JGHowes talk - 02:28, 9 December 2020 (UTC)
Fair enough, but according to [3] the request was made October 6 and fulfilled November 18 - over a month later. --Rschen7754 01:48, 9 December 2020 (UTC)

Eligible since 2007

On Requests for new languages there is hundred of language request for various projects waiting since 2007 for "on hold" or "approved" status. When will be changed the status for those languages? --2001:B07:6442:8903:194D:F454:DCE2:E227 10:54, 10 December 2020 (UTC)

Talk to the Language Committee either through their talk page or directly with one of the committee members, it all sits in their remit.  — billinghurst sDrewth 00:32, 11 December 2020 (UTC)

Am having a problem changing my User name, can you help?

I have been trying to correct my username, I follow the instructions but where it says to edit below there are no options below for edit. Can anyone assist me with changing my user name? — The preceding unsigned comment was added by A-Z Auto Transport LLC (talk)

@A-Z Auto Transport LLC: Lodge your request at Special:GlobalRenameRequest  — billinghurst sDrewth 00:31, 11 December 2020 (UTC)

Hiring a full-time facilitator in this community

Hi. Board elections and governance conversations are expected in the next months. In order to be ready when they happen, the Wikimedia Foundation is forming a team of facilitators to ensure good communication and representative participation across Wikimedia. We are hiring a full-time contractor focusing on English speaking projects and affiliates. We are looking for someone who is a good communicator and understands the peculiarities of Wikimedia. We need someone motivated by equity, diversity and inclusion, the drivers behind these conversations. Check the job description for more details and to apply. Please help us share this opportunity with your contacts and groups. If you have questions, you can ping me here or you can contact me at qgil wikimedia.org. Qgil-WMF (talk) 14:54, 11 December 2020 (UTC)

Community Wishlist Survey 2021

SGrabarczuk (WMF)

15:03, 11 December 2020 (UTC)

New online learning courses on Building Partnerships and Identifying and Addressing Harassment

Hello everyone!

The Community Development team at the Wikimedia Foundation is launching the WikiLearn (Online Learning Pilot), a capacity-building project. This pilot will be delivered in English, and hold two courses over an 8-week period that will begin on February 1, 2021. There will be two cohorts with a capacity of 40 selected participants. Applications opened on December 15, 2020 and close on January 14, 2021 for those who are interested to be part of the online learning pilot.

The two courses launching on February 1, 2021 are:

  1. Identifying and Addressing Harassment Online: This course will focus on developing skills that will help volunteers respond to on- and off-wiki harassment.
  1. Partnership Building: This intensive course will provide an in-depth curriculum on how to develop meaningful programmatic and organizational partnerships within the movement and with external partners.


We encourage everyone to spread the word to those you think could benefit from the online courses and who might be interested. If you have any questions, please do not hesitate to email [[4]] or leave a question on the courses talk page.

For the Community Development team and the Anti-Harassment Program. SPoore (WMF) Senior Strategist, Trust & Safety (talk) 20:01, 16 December 2020 (UTC)

Happy Birthday, Wikipedia!

Happy Birthday Wikipedia!Poxy4 (talk) 16:02, 18 December 2020 (UTC)

Thank you! Ruslik (talk) 20:42, 18 December 2020 (UTC)

Proposals for new project: WikiPoetry

Hey everyone, I apologize if this is the wrong place to put this: I am kind of new to this. I just proposed the creation of WikiPoetry which is a project that, in essence, allows for the publishing of poetry from around the world. Similar to Wikimedia Commons, it has a creative side, with anyone being able to publish poetry that they create (just like anyone can upload fair-use images to Commons), but it also has a more reference side, with well-known poetry also being shown on the site. If a poem is published elsewhere, it should only be edited if there are errors, obviously, but I also think that WikiPoetry would allow for collaborative poetry where anyone can make creative edits to each-others poems. I think it would be an awesome addition to the Wikimedia projects, and I'm curious about what you all think: feedback, suggestions, criticism, etc. If you like the idea, please join as an interested participant and please make improvements to the proposal. Thanks! Ajshul (talk) 16:52, 22 December 2020 (UTC)

Children lacking home internet access worldwide

I read UNICEF report saying that most African children aged 3–17 lack internet access at home. Not just them, most others in South Asia and Middle East and many others elsewhere lack such access. Furthermore, phone network access is too pricey for those children. There are so many questions, but I don't know which ones to ask first. If the reports are true, then those children will likely be unaware of Wikimedia projects, especially Wikipedia. Are those children worth approaching? Why or why not? George Ho (talk) 06:12, 9 December 2020 (UTC)

@George Ho: Short answer: yes. Many of them still have spotty access to mobile services. Don't underestimate the exponential rise of mobile availability in Africa and Asia. They are all coming online at a staggering pace, and Wikipedia Zero is speeding up their access to Wikipedia. Voltairacus (talk) 08:17, 9 December 2020 (UTC)
@Voltairacus: Wikipedia Zero has been discontinued for at least two years. I wouldn't raise my hopes up about mobile experience. I wouldn't treat mobile UI experience with the projects the same way I do with desktop/laptop. Mobile editing is still less effective for more complicated editing, honestly. I'm unsure whether those children will enjoy editing pages on mobile.

Well, mobile users are increasing in India. Phones are somewhat still too pricey, so I don't know how most of their parents could afford them at their incomes. Not to mention phone bills. I guess they must have bought cheapest phones available. However, recently, the pandemic has led to declining smartphone sales in Africa. Furthermore, certain Africans are unfortunate in buying malware-infected cell phones, like Tecno phones made in China. Oh boy, there have been phone smuggling and increasing taxes on imports in Pakistan. George Ho (talk) 09:06, 9 December 2020 (UTC)

Over 40 % of families in Southern Italy don't have a computer at home and broadband access is declining; most kids therefore don't have any chance at all to participate in online educational activities. Wikimedia Italia has long tried to make inroads in Central and Southern Italy but it's extremely difficult. Nemo 10:11, 9 December 2020 (UTC)
@Nemo bis: The page isn't working in my area. Is it working there? George Ho (talk) 14:56, 9 December 2020 (UTC)
Fixed now, I think. If you don't have JavaScript enabled you might need to scroll a couple pages until you reach the text (there's also a PDF). Nemo 17:15, 9 December 2020 (UTC)
Also: «By the end of 2021, installed PCs and tablets will reach 1.77 billion, up from 1.64 billion in 2019, according to research company Canalys» (Reuters). No idea how precise. Nemo 14:10, 24 December 2020 (UTC)

Probleme in der Georgische Wikipedia

ich bin Georgierin, lebe mehr als 20J ahre in Deutschland und deshalb schreibe ich auf Deutsch. Ich arbeite seit 2005, kurz nach ihrer Gründung, in der georgischen Wikipedia und war auch Administrator. Schwierige Bedingungen gibt es in der georgischen Wikipedia schon lange. Die georgische Wikipedia befindet sich seit 2015 in den Händen von nur drei Administratoren, die mittlesweile selbstherrlich handeln. (Der Rest der Administratoren wurde in kurzer Zeit entfernt. Es gab eine Zeit, in der wir 10 Administratoren waren), was auf eine speziell verabschiedete neue Regel zurückzuführen ist: Wenn der Administrator nicht innerhalb von 3 Monaten mindestens 500 allgemeine und 50 administrative Änderungen vorgenommen hat, wird dem Benutzer der Administratorstatus ohne Abstimmung entzogen. s.ka:ვიკიპედია:ადმინისტრატორები/ადმინისტრატორის სტატუსის მოხსნა.

Diese Regel gilt jedoch seitdem nicht mehr für drei verbliebenen Administratoren, z.B. Administrator David1010. Der zweite Administrator MIKHEIL hat dessen Administrator Status, der unter diese Regel gestellt werden sollte, nicht aufgehoben, sondern die Antwort geschrieben: „Hallo. Ich kann bestätigen, dass David1010 in letzter Zeit ernsthafte Gesundheitsprobleme hatte. Folglich ist in diesem Zeitpunkt eine Diskussion darüber für ihn darüber nicht wichtig. Daher halte ich derzeit alle Maßnahmen in diese Richtung für unmoralisch und werde diese Diskussion ebenfalls abschließen. Ich wünsche David1010 gute Gesundheit!” s. ვიკიპედია:ადმინისტრატორები/სტატუსის მოხსნა. Dieser Administrator hat auch derzeit eine nicht ausreichende Zahl von Bearbeitungen, es macht jedoch keinen Sinn, einen Vorschlag zum Aufheben des Administrator Status vorzulegen, da diese dieselbe Antwort schreiben werden. Noch mehr, gemäß der geltenden Regel hat auch der Administrator MIKHEIL keine ausreichende Zahl von Beiträgen. s.ვიკიპედია (ka.wikipedia.org) • 2020-11-23 — 2020-12-24. Was sollte das sein? Ich bin sicher, dass dies in einer demokratischen Gesellschaft nicht passiert wäre.

Der Administrator MIKHEIL kandidierte ohne Erfolg 2016 auch für den Steward s. Stewards/Elections 2016/Votes/MIKHEIL. Sehen: Stewards/Elections 2016/Questions.

Vor kurzem hat Benutzer :Jaba1977 meine dauerhafte Sperrung beantragt (siehe Administrator:MIKHEIL Diskussion:ka:მომხმარებლის განხილვა:MIKHEIL#ისევ ცანგალას ცრუ ბრალდებების შესახებ), letztendlich wurde ich für einen Monat blockiert (Vielen Dank an Administrator Otogi, weil er eine dauerhafte Blockierung verhindert hat), weil ich dem Benutzer die Wahrheit gesagt habe.

In der georgischen Wikipedia kommt es vor, dass jemand, der die Wahrheit sagt bestraft wird, zum Beispiel der ehemalige Administrator Benutzer:Rastrelli F wurde für einen Monat gesperrt und der ehemalige Administrator Benutzer:Deu hat ab dem 20. Januar 2019 einen permanenten Block von Administrator:MIKHEIL, weil beide ihm die Wahrheit gesagt haben.

Aktive Benutzer werden gelegentlich, wenn sie ihre Meinung äußern, von den Administratoren bedroht oder gleich blockiert Benutzer:Gobrona (wurde für drei Monat gesperrt). Das ist möglich, weil unsere Reglungen für Benutzersperrung seit 2015 nicht geändert würden, und damit Blockierungen ohne Aussprache möglich sind.

Zwei von drei Administratoren (David1010, MIKHEIL) sind Bürokraten, wir haben kein Schiedsverfahren. An wen kann man sich in georgischen Wikipedia wenden? Der Kreis ist geschlossen.

Sie, die Stewards, sind letzte Hoffnung der georgischen Wikipedia. Helfen sie uns bitte.

Eine schöne Weihnachten und guten Rutsch im Neue Jahr.

Mit freundlichen Grüssen --Zangala (talk) 20:22, 24 December 2020 (UTC)

Project Proposal: WikiEssays

Hey everyone! I'm proposing a mix between a Wiki and a blogging platform. Unlike the encyclopedic approach of Wikipedia, this would be goaled towards explaining certain concepts/standpoints through a collection of interlinked evolving essays. I'd be extremely grateful for feedback on the idea! Milanandreew (talk) 15:23, 25 December 2020 (UTC)

Hey! I really see the merits of your project; I think it would be a great way to take advantage of Wiki technology. I recently proposed Wikidiscussion which I think could be somewhat combined with yours to create a wiki for debating various topics through essays and discussions. I'd love to collaborate with you on this if you would like. I also recently proposed WikiPoetry which I think would be a great wiki project. I would love to hear your feedback on that as well. Ajshul (talk) 15:48, 25 December 2020 (UTC)

Proposals for new project: Wikimanual

Hey everyone! I just created a new proposal called Wikimanual which is a way for people to share instructions/manuals for various products. This is obviously in the very early stages of the ideation phase, so I ask you all for feedback and help! Thanks! Ajshul (talk) 16:12, 25 December 2020 (UTC)

Why cannot Wikibooks accommodate manuals? Ruslik (talk) 05:01, 28 December 2020 (UTC)
The idea surrounds the collection of instruction manuals for products (anything from a specific model of a lawnmower to a new keyboard piano). Wikibooks doesn't really include these. The purpose of this project is to allow anyone to find instruction manuals for products, a very different purpose than Wikibooks or any other Wiki project. Ajshul (talk) 17:01, 28 December 2020 (UTC)

Can archiving be undone?

Hello,
I made a RFC and archived it, using {{Archive top}} and {{Archive bottom}}.
Is it possible to undo it afterwards? I.e., if something occurs and I want to update the RFC, can the archive be undone? Thank you and regards, Dgw (talk) 22:46, 27 December 2020 (UTC)

Something that is closed must stay closed unless the closure was in error. Ruslik (talk) 05:00, 28 December 2020 (UTC)

Pedindo uma "gentileza" de ano novo

@Conde Edmond Dantès, Érico, DarwIn, Renato de carvalho ferreira, Stegop, Fronteira, Ixocactus, WikiFer, JMagalhães, Fabiojrsouza, EternamenteAprendiz, and ChristianH: Em primeiro lugar quero desejar um feliz ano novo a todos e explicar por que estou postando aqui. A minha DB/3 foi aplicada com bloqueio com severas restrições, inclusive de enviar e-mails e editar a página de discussão (o que inclusive não foi deliberado, embora não seja esse o tema que quero focar aqui). O fato é que o bloqueio indefinido não é perpétuo, portanto, eu tenho o direito de pedir revisões (e tenho diversas razões para isso). Bom, então o meio óbvio é a lista de desbloqueio. No entanto, mandei e reenviei umas 3 ou quatro vezes um email para essa lista mas fui ignorado, ou seja, não foi criada a DB pretendida.

Apenas para esclarecer, a proposta que fiz não era nada pretensiosa, apenas queria autorização para corrigir erros de português e afins.

Ocorre que a situação atual (impedido de editar em todo o site, de editar a própria página de discussão e enviar e-mails), além de desproporcional à "infração cometida" (ou seja, nenhuma), me impede inclusive de solicitar qualquer tipo de revisão, o que fere os pilares básicos dos projetos, que deveriam ser acessíveis a "qualquer um". Igualmente perniciosa para o projeto, porque está perdendo edições e artigos úteis por causa de uma teoria maluca de conspiração, mas isso é outra história, que tem que ser esclarecida quando eu tiver o direito de me defender, que foi negado durante a DB.

Mas enfim, o que venho pedir aqui é simplesmente que liberem a página de discussão para que eu possa, através dela, solicitar DBs de revisão das sanções aplicadas, sob o compromisso de usá-la somente para este fim. Estou fazendo este pedido por aqui porque é o único espaço que restou.

Não vejo como esse uso da PDU possa ser uma ameaça a quem quer que seja ou que consequência maléfica isso pode causar, uma vez que ela será usada para um fim específico, constará em "restrições à edição", ou seja, longe de ser um "semiaberto", eu peço apenas um "banho de sol".

Venho então rogar que seja feita essa "gentileza", esse gesto de boa vontade, a título de renovação do ano que está prestes a surgir. Seja qual for a decisão de vocês, desejo muita felicidade a todos. Um grande abraço! Millennium bug (talk) 15:31, 31 December 2020 (UTC)

@!Silent, 79a, Albertoleoncio, Allice Hunter, Biologo32, Barão de Itararé, Chronus, Cléééston, Cósmico, and DARIO SEVERI:. Millennium bug (talk) 20:28, 1 January 2021 (UTC)
@Millennium bug: Liberado o uso da PDU conforme solicitado. !Silent (talk) 21:22, 1 January 2021 (UTC)
Muito grato e reiterando os votos de feliz ano novo! Millennium bug (talk) 22:09, 1 January 2021 (UTC)