"Confirmation discussions will last one week after the appointment of the newly elected stewards. This may be extended to two weeks for one or more confirmations at the discretion of the Election Committee if the committee believes further input is required before concluding."
Thus, confirmation discussions seem to have begun on 5 March 2017, that's more than a week ago now. Why aren't the clear-cut cases closed? Then it would be possible to see which are the closer cases which still are under discussion. --Bjarlin (talk) 15:53, 13 March 2017 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Latest comment: 6 years ago347 comments18 people in discussion
The summaries below only provide a convenient overview. Stewards should review the actual confirmation comments and their understanding of relevant policies before commenting.
Confirmation discussions will last one week after the appointment of the newly elected stewards. This may be extended to two weeks for one or more confirmations at the discretion of the Election Committee if the committee believes further input is required before concluding. The Election Committee will close these discussions and implement the outcome (which also means making a decision in non-obvious cases).
This section is for steward discussion only. Please do not comment in this box unless you are a steward.
Each discussion below starts with a summary of the confirmation comments. Coloured and underlined names have notes attached; move your cursor onto the names to show the notes, or refer to this legend:
Agrees with this point, but favours confirmation.
Agrees with this point, but opposes confirmation.
Agrees with this point, but is undecided about confirmation.
Around on IRC to help out with issues. They've been helpful to me in many situations, most not related to steward stuff, but still there nonetheless. Net positive.
1 agreed (83 didn't mention this).
BU Rob13
Encouraging a volunteer to work more cannot be done by kicking him. Also, every good action done for the community is a good action that helps others to do more good actions.
1 agreed (83 didn't mention this).
.js
Great editor
1 agreed (83 didn't mention this).
Fastily
Concerned
low activity / not active enough, little use has been criticized for years, announcement of reduced activity not promising for the future
I think there is weak consensus to confirm here, and with only inactivity-related concerns I don't mind siding with the status quo. – Ajraddatz (talk) 09:33, 5 March 2017 (UTC)Reply[reply]
According to SP removal implies loss of trust. A significant minority, from a numerical point of view, pointed out inactivity-related concerns, but few of them questioned Avraham' trustworthiness. Same for Melos: no consensus to remove, then keep. --Vituzzu (talk) 09:57, 5 March 2017 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Confirm largely per Vituzzu. He should try to be more active when possible though. —MarcoAurelio 10:21, 5 March 2017 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Confirm - I don't see consensus from the community to remove Avraham as a steward. As Vituzzu mentions, almost no concerns were raised about his actions as a steward. --Pmlineditor (t·c·l) 15:21, 5 March 2017 (UTC)Reply[reply]
neutral because of various support reasons —DerHexer(Talk) 15:21, 5 March 2017 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Remove - Multiple concerns were expressed about the lack of steward actions, and lack of expectation of an increase in activity. Savhñ 15:25, 5 March 2017 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Remove. Low activity is a concern which is shared by so many users that makes me unable to say confirm, sadly. Matiia (talk) 16:01, 5 March 2017 (UTC)Reply[reply]
remove The concerns about low activity and not having an expectation of improvement based on past experience are shared by many users, while supporters w.r.t. "behind the scenes" activity are based on false premises. It was also pointed out in other confirmations that inactivity is bad as it leads to being uninformed about current practices and new policies. --MF-W 21:44, 5 March 2017 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Confirm. At last year's confirmation, Avi was on the Ombudsman Committee, which excused his low activity. I agree with Ajr's comment on the status quo, but if similar inactivity leads to similar concerns next year, I would be less likely to entertain the status quo. MBisanztalk 22:50, 5 March 2017 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Confirm Many (added based on a comment below) Comments were actually based on the public information which shows that there is some deficit of activity. However Avi remains deeply involved with the stewards community (based on the activity in the mailing list and irc) and can often provide a useful advise. So, retaining him as a steward will be a net positive. Ruslik (talk) 20:02, 6 March 2017 (UTC)Reply[reply]
That is not true; some comments for removal were based on information given by Ajraddatz and me about Avraham's mailing list inactivity. Some other comments against removal were based on assumptions about mailing list activity. --MF-W 13:24, 7 March 2017 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I did not search the lists but I can at least remember that I have seen Avi there. So, it is my vague recollections only. Ruslik (talk) 19:24, 7 March 2017 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Confirm I have always find his insights very helpful Mardetanhatalk 20:32, 8 March 2017 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Activity related concerns are there but i think there is a weak consensus to confirm per Ajr.--Shanmugamp7(talk) 03:54, 11 March 2017 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Confirm per competency stressed within comments, inactivity is less of a concern.--HakanIST (talk) 06:15, 12 March 2017 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Confirm but noting that it was a fairly close cut decision by the community (insofar as confirmations go). QuiteUnusual (talk) 09:29, 13 March 2017 (UTC)Reply[reply]
"Similar words from other confirmations, though unrealised following confirmation"
1 agreed (54 didn't mention this).
Billinghurst
Repeated mistakes and no attempt to address the concerns or to avoid repeating them
1 agreed (54 didn't mention this).
Snowolf
"Glad to say goodbye with you"
1 agreed (54 didn't mention this).
Meracritus
no reason given
14 agreed (41 didn't mention this).
Stemoc, Atcovi, Marshallsumter, Krd, Marcus Cyron, Ajraddatz, Pnapora, Gridditsch, Plagiat, cyfraw, MGChecker, KlaasZ4usV, Xqt, Alan
3 neutral "comments" (i.e. without a comment); 1 "not able to really make [his] mind"; 1 "per negative opinions".
There is no consensus to keep here, and the comments calling for removal are substantive in nature. Regretful remove. – Ajraddatz (talk) 09:34, 5 March 2017 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Sadly remove - the majority of people commenting on his confirmation asked for removal, and concerns about inactivity and past mistakes are not unfounded :-( —MarcoAurelio 10:28, 5 March 2017 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Remove per the expressed concerns. Savhñ 15:26, 5 March 2017 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Remove. There are too many concerns about both activity and mistakes to keep, saldy. Matiia (talk) 16:06, 5 March 2017 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Remove. The problem is not one of activity; it is that actual actions as a steward have been problematic and have been repeated. -- Avi (talk) 20:48, 5 March 2017 (UTC)Reply[reply]
remove Nearly no support here except commentless keeps. --MF-W 21:44, 5 March 2017 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Remove with regret. This case is the opposite of that of Avi: unfortunately Bennylin is not so involved into our internal discussions as Avi. In addition, the lack of interaction with other stewards is having a negative impact on his performance. Ruslik (talk) 20:07, 6 March 2017 (UTC)Reply[reply]
one action far from the temperament I would expect from a steward
2 agreed, 1 seconded (63 didn't mention this).
Rschen7754[Miniapolis], Snowolf
4 neutral "comments" (i.e. without a comment).
Confirm, per clear consensus. Savhñ 09:18, 5 March 2017 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Some legitimate concerns raised, but consensus to confirm is certainly present, and I don't see any issues with Mardetanha continuing in this role myself. – Ajraddatz (talk) 09:23, 5 March 2017 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Atcovi, Krd, Marcus Cyron, Gridditsch, Plagiat, KlaasZ4usV
4 neutral "comments" (i.e. without a comment), 1 "removed vote"
On the one hand, I don't really agree with inactivity-only removals. But I see no consensus to confirm here, and as such I say remove. Unless it is being very unreasonable or incorrect in its reasoning, the community should have the final say here. – Ajraddatz (talk) 09:26, 5 March 2017 (UTC)Reply[reply]
According to SP removal implies loss of trust. A significant minority, from a numerical point of view, pointed out inactivity-related concerns, but none of them questioned Melos' trustworthiness. Same for Avraham: no consensus to remove, then keep. --Vituzzu (talk) 09:53, 5 March 2017 (UTC)Reply[reply]
From SP: "lose it if they do not need it or are no longer trusted". So, not necessary loss of trust. Ruslik (talk) 20:33, 6 March 2017 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Vituzzu is correct that none have questioned Melos' trustworthiness, on the other hand several community members are concerned about Melos not being active enough. I'm going for a keep here due to the fact that I feel that trust is more important than editcounts, but Melos should certainly become more active as the community values activity too. —MarcoAurelio 10:47, 5 March 2017 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Remove - Multiple concerns were expressed about the lack of steward actions, including however a previous concern by myself. The currently ongoing explosive increase in activity from Melos does not seem to guarantee a continued higher activity level, though. Savhñ 15:29, 5 March 2017 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Still none of them points out lack of trust which is what SP deals with. --Vituzzu (talk) 19:54, 5 March 2017 (UTC)Reply[reply]
When electing stewards, the community trust them, among other things, to be active. Melos currently is only active now, and the community has shown, as far as I see, a significant concern with their trust in Melos' activity. Savhñ 09:11, 7 March 2017 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Since 2010 I've guaranteed a sufficient level of activity as steward in serving community (as we can see in many comments). Some months of the last year there was lack of activity due to absence of connettivity (there was significant changes in my RL that I can't explain here for privacy reason but if someone will ask to me I'm happy to clarify privately) and some concerns are indeed about that but only if this lack is reiterated. Now since all my connettivity problems are resolved I can guaranted a good level of activity (see CW activity) as expected by many commmunity comments and that trust my steward actions. --Melos (talk) 13:31, 7 March 2017 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Remove. Low activity is a concern which is shared by so many users that makes me unable to say confirm, sadly. Matiia (talk) 16:13, 5 March 2017 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Confirm. Low activity does not indicate a poor understanding of the role and its tools. I have not lost faith in Melos's abilities and his contributions are valuable. We (myself obviously as well) may want to reconsider the current minimum activity levels for stewards as there is a significant portion of the community which desires more, but until such point as either Melos demonstrates improper use of the tools, repeated poor judgement, or falls below the mandated minimum, I see no reason not to benefit from his experience. -- Avi (talk) 20:53, 5 March 2017 (UTC)Reply[reply]
remove The concerns about low activity are shared by many users. It was also rightly pointed out that inactivity is bad as it leads to being uninformed about current practices and new policies. --MF-W 21:44, 5 March 2017 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Ignoring SP is bad, ignoring it basing upon theoretical considerations is even worse. --Vituzzu (talk) 18:51, 6 March 2017 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Which part of it did I ignore? --MF-W 15:19, 7 March 2017 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Removal-related part, as I wrote above. --Vituzzu (talk) 17:35, 7 March 2017 (UTC)Reply[reply]
This is probably not the place for this (and it hurts me in particular) but I think you both have legs to stand on as I believe there is an ambiguity in the SP. One the one hand, we have a clear definition of what minimum activity is at Stewards policy#Inactivity. On the other hand, there is the following statement in the next section Stewards policy#Poll after a year: "Users get it if they need it, keep it if people trust them, and lose it if they do not need it or are no longer trusted." Vituzzu, I, and others understand that "do not need it" means that they have not kept to the minimum requirement, which means anyone who has kept to the minimum can only be removed if his or her peers show a consensus to remove (as per the rest of the paragraph) based on a loss of trust in the ability for the user to function properly. MFW, If I understand him correctly, feels that "no longer needed" can be a standard higher than that listed in the previous section. I've always argued that if that is the case, we should adjust the minimum, as a clearly stated requirement trumps an ambiguous one, in my opinion. However, if MFW loses trust in someone (me, Benny, Melos) solely due to their lack of activity, that is his prerogative. -- Avi (talk) 17:46, 7 March 2017 (UTC)Reply[reply]
To me, the sentence "Users get it if etc." is more a "decoration" or a comment than a policy. It isn't enforcable, and also not strictly true: it's not like any user who "needs" steward access (however such a need would be defined) gets it first, and that only afterwards it's determined whether he may keep it based on people's trust. Much more important are the sentences which follow, which describe the actual removal process. That process is completely independent from the automatic inactivity removal. --MF-W 16:19, 8 March 2017 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Weak Confirm. As I noted above, I'm willing to maintain the status quo because no substantive concerns were noted, but if similar inactivity leads to similar concerns next year, I would not be willing to maintain the status quo. MBisanztalk 22:54, 5 March 2017 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Remove. By the same reason as Bennilyn and also with regret: lack of involvement with the steward community. Ruslik (talk) 20:28, 6 March 2017 (UTC)Reply[reply]
After think more about Melos I changed my position to neutral. Ruslik (talk) 19:44, 9 March 2017 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Weak confirm, although I don't think that he has enough activity in stewards tasks. On top of everything, he is around and willing to help lately. RadiX∞ 19:12, 8 March 2017 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Weak Confirm. all of us get into problems in real life, I still have my trust in him Mardetanhatalk 20:34, 8 March 2017 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Only inactivity related concerns. I think there is weak consensus to confirm--Shanmugamp7(talk) 03:54, 11 March 2017 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I am unable to support confirmation based on the concerns I raised myself & the lack of any reply suggesting change, but despite that there does seem to be consensus to confirm. Savhñ 15:37, 5 March 2017 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Confirm. While I try and refrain myself, I do not consider implementing a clear Arbcom request as an actual COI. If the ArbCom says flip, the steward is just acting as a robot. While it is always better to minimize even the appearance of impropriety, merely acting as an extension of the local Arbcom on one's home wiki is not enough to make me feel that Mentifisto has abused his trust (it is clearcut to use the policy term). There isn't a pattern, currently, of other mistakes or bad judgement, so I would confirm for this year. -- Avi (talk) 21:02, 5 March 2017 (UTC)Reply[reply]
confirm Support apart from commentless keepers is rather low, while the errors pointed out were rather bad. However, there is only a minimal number of people who wish for a removal. --MF-W 21:44, 5 March 2017 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Confirm But Mentifisto should probably find some time and at least read what is in out mailing list, what is posted to our wiki and how other stewards handle various requests. Ruslik (talk) 20:16, 6 March 2017 (UTC)Reply[reply]
long-term dedication & promised to not seek confirmation next year if he keeps being inactive / giving him another chance / hope he will increase his activity this year / encouraging a volunteer to work more cannot be done by kicking him
Marshallsumter, Krd, Gridditsch, Plagiat, Chris troutman, Atcovi, KlaasZ4uV
1 neutral "comment" (i.e. without a comment).
I think that there is weak consensus to confirm here. Given that the concerns are inactivity-related, I don't mind siding with the status quo in a somewhat unclear case like this. – Ajraddatz (talk) 09:28, 5 March 2017 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Some people concerned about inactivity which seems to be justified due to health issues, but no comments wrt loss of trust or abuse of the steward tools so I'm for a confirm here hoping that Pmlineditor gets well soon and can resume his valuable steward activity. —MarcoAurelio 10:51, 5 March 2017 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Remove - Multiple concerns were expressed about the total lack of steward actions in most months & limited overall activity since April. Savhñ 15:33, 5 March 2017 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Hmm, I see more comments favoring confirmation than not doing so (38-k/13-r). If you think that the remove comments do weight more to you then that's absolutely okay though, but I think I should point out that your statement is confusing, at least to me. Regards, —MarcoAurelio 20:45, 6 March 2017 (UTC)Reply[reply]
A "vast majority" does not imply it to be a majority. Savhñ 17:53, 8 March 2017 (UTC)Reply[reply]
[Pedanticism] Au contraire. A "vast majority" implies a majority. A majority does not imply a "vast majority", as all vast majorities are ipso facto majorities [/Pedanticism]. -- Avi (talk) 18:12, 8 March 2017 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Avraham: I apologise, my comment was indeed wrong; I meant to state that "Not a vast majority" of support does not imply it not to be a (numerical) majority of support. Savhñ 21:52, 8 March 2017 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Savh:No need to apologize. My brain isn't smart enough to handle triple-negatives, so I shy away from them. . -- Avi (talk) 22:08, 8 March 2017 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Again here's the third case: there must be consensus to remove, which is different from consensus to keep. Also steward policy deals with lack of trust. While Pmlineditor's low activity brought 6 people to question his trustworthiness still they are a minority. --Vituzzu (talk) 20:23, 5 March 2017 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Confirm. Per my understanding of the confirmation system since 2007, and as stated above by myself and Vituzzu, I do not see Pmlineditor as having abused his privileges or engaged in systematic error even after constructive criticism, and so I would confirm him this year. -- Avi (talk) 21:05, 5 March 2017 (UTC)Reply[reply]
remove The concerns about low activity are shared by many users. It was also pointed out in other confirmations that inactivity is bad as it leads to being uninformed about current practices and new policies. --MF-W 21:44, 5 March 2017 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Weak Confirm. As I noted above, I'm willing to maintain the status quo because no substantive concerns were noted, but if similar inactivity leads to similar concerns next year, I would not be willing to maintain the status quo. MBisanztalk 22:57, 5 March 2017 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Confirm. I could not find any compelling reason to remove other than inactivity, and I trust him to resign if he is not going to have enough time for the role Mardetanhatalk 20:37, 8 March 2017 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Confirm. I am a tad concerned over the long absence period. However, he is active again, and when he is around, he is a helpful steward. Moreover, I see no consensus to remove. RadiX∞ 18:46, 10 March 2017 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Inactivity related concerns are raised but i think there is a weak consensus to confirm.--Shanmugamp7(talk) 03:54, 11 March 2017 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I sometimes disagree with certain actions by Ruslik, but usually due to excessive "caution"
1 agreed (64 didn't mention this).
Nemo bis
not active on Wikiversity
1 agreed (64 didn't mention this).
Marshallsumter
no reason given
1 agreed (64 didn't mention this).
Lepricavark
2 neutral "comments" (i.e. without a comment).
Confirm, per clear consensus. Savhñ 09:18, 5 March 2017 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I think some of the concerns raised here are significant, and worth paying attention to. But there is still consensus to confirm. – Ajraddatz (talk) 09:29, 5 March 2017 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Same as Ajr, but overall I think the majority favors confirmation. —MarcoAurelio 10:55, 5 March 2017 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Confirm, clear consensus, though some concerns were raised. --Pmlineditor (t·c·l) 15:17, 5 March 2017 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Confirm. Ruslik probably did err in the temporary sysop case, but having read the discussion, it seems to me to be an understandable mistake; not one of negligence or, even worse, malice. Outside of that, I have not seen a systematic pattern of errors or bad judgement. As such, I have not lost faith or trust in Ruslik this cycle, and I hope that he (and we all) learn from any errors and correct them going forward. -- Avi (talk) 21:09, 5 March 2017 (UTC)Reply[reply]