Requests for new languages/Wikipedia Toki Pona 2

main page Request for a new language edition: Wikipedia Toki Pona 2

submitted verification final decision
Discuss the creation of this language project on this page. Votes will be ignored when judging the proposal. Please provide arguments or reasons and be prepared to defend them (see the Language proposal policy).

The language committee needs to verify the language is eligible to be approved.

  • Check that the project does not already exist (see list).
  • Obtain an ISO 639 code
  • Ensure the requested language is sufficiently unique that it could not exist on a more general wiki.
  • Ensure that there are a sufficient number of native editors of that language to merit an edition in that language.
  • The community needs to develop an active test project; it must remain active until approval (automated statistics, recent changes). It is generally considered active if the analysis lists at least three active, not-grayed-out editors listed in the sections for the previous few months.
  • The community needs to complete required MediaWiki interface translations in that language (about localization, translatewiki, check completion).
  • The community needs to discuss and complete the settings table below:
What Value Example / Explanation
Proposal
Language code tok (SILGlottolog) A valid ISO 639-1 or 639-3 language code, like "fr", "de", "nso", ...
Language name Toki Pona Language name in English
Language name toki pona Language name in your language. This will appear in the language list on Special:Preferences, in the interwiki sidebar on other wikis, ...
Language Wikidata item Q36846 - item has currently the following values:
Item about the language at Wikidata. It would normally include the Wikimedia language code, name of the language, etc. Please complete at Wikidata if needed.
Directionality LTR Is the language written from left to right (LTR) or from right to left (RTL)?
Links Links to previous requests, or references to external websites or documents.
Settings
Project name lipu Wikipesija "Wikipedia" in your language
Project namespace lipu Wikipesija usually the same as the project name
Project talk namespace toki pi lipu Wikipesija "Wikipedia talk" (the discussion namespace of the project namespace)
Enable uploads no Default is "no". Preferably, files should be uploaded to Commons.
If you want, you can enable local file uploading, either by any user ("yes") or by administrators only ("admin").
Notes: (1) This setting can be changed afterwards. The setting can only be "yes" or "admin" at approval if the test creates an Exemption Doctrine Policy (EDP) first. (2) Files on Commons can be used on all Wikis. (3) Uploading fair-use images is not allowed on Commons (more info). (4) Localisation to your language may be insufficient on Commons.
Optional settings
Project logo File:Wikipedia-logo-v2-tok.svg This needs to be an SVG image (instructions for logo creation).
Default project timezone UTC±0 "Continent/City", e.g. "Europe/Brussels" or "America/Mexico City" (see list of valid timezones)
Additional namespaces
  • 100: nimi [Word]
  • 101: toki nimi [Word talk]
For example, a Wikisource would need "Page", "Page talk", "Index", "Index talk", "Author", "Author talk".
Additional settings
  • wgCapitalLinks: false
  • wgContentNamespaces: 100
  • wgNamespacesWithSubpages: 100 => 0
  • Namespace aliases:
    • 'Wikipesija' => NS_PROJECT
    • 'W' => NS_PROJECT
    • 'toki Wikipesija' => NS_PROJECT_TALK
    • 'tW' => NS_PROJECT_TALK
  • wmgBabelMainCategory: jan pi toki "%code%"
Anything else that should be set
submit Phabricator task (includes everything automatically, except additional namespaces/settings)

ProposalEdit

As this request was filed incomplete, I, as an experienced Wikimedian, fluent-ish tokiponist, and active editor on the Toki Pona "lipu Wikipesija", am happy to take over the responsibility of writing the proposal and seeing this through to the end. This is written on behalf of myself; User:Tbodt, admin/sysadmin of the aforementioned project; and more generally the lipu Wikipesija community.

Toki Pona has existed in some form since 2001. Its definitive guiding text, Toki Pona: The Language of Good, was published in 2014, and since then the community has blossomed, well past the size it was in 2005 when the original Toki Pona Wikipedia was shut down. The growth of the community can further be seen in the recent publication of Toki Pona Dictionary and the assignment of ISO 639 code tok in January. (See also phab:T236938 [Wikidata L10n] and phab:T300378 [TWN L10n].) The community-maintained document "Where is Toki Pona used?" shows that Toki Pona is used in a variety of settings, including a new monthly periodical of original writing.

This proposal is slightly unusual in that it seeks to have an external wiki considered as the "test project". I have cleared with a LangCom member that, at least in principle, this is possible. (If upon further review LangCom decides we must move to Incubator, we are open to it, but would prefer not to for the reasons explained in that discussion.) This external wiki, lipu Wikipesija, is notably a fork of a fork of a Wikimedia project to begin with: After the deletion of the original Toki Pona Wikipedia in 2005, the community moved to Fandom, and then from Fandom to an independent site last year. We thus have content dating all the way back to the original Toki Pona Wikipedia! At ilo:Sona (Special:Statistics) you can see that we have 1,370 content pages (main and "nimi" namespaces) and 19 users with actions in the past 30 days—7 of us with more than 20, 4 of us with more than 100. Recently we have begun focusing on creating the "lipu suli", the List of articles every Wikipedia should have; many such articles had already been created. Feel free to click around at [1] to see what we've been up to; as you might expect it's a lot of stubs, but I think within the bounds of what many young projects have (since, despite this project's old history, it had been largely neglected until it was moved from Fandom last May, and many of the Fandom pages have needed cleanup).

Sizable portions of the MediaWiki interface have already been translated to Toki Pona. Some of this is discussed at phab:T300378, and you can see more of it just browsing lipu Wikipesija. ilo:Ante toki shows some of our translation status, while other translations have been made at a software level.

We are aware that a high standard is demanded for creation of a conlang Wikipedia, and for that reason I wish GTbot2007 wouldn't have launched this request so haphazardly. Looking at Requests for new languages/Wikipedia Lingua Franca Nova 2 and Requests for new languages/Wikipedia Kotava, I think we may already meet or exceed the activity levels that those projects had when they were approved, but Tbodt and I wish to leave no room for doubt, and were hoping for the Toki Pona community to first organize a big effort to get lipu Wikipesija to certain milestones—perhaps 3,000 articles, at least 500 of which aren't stubs, and the 1,000 vital articles at least half-bluelinked... just approximate numbers off the top of my head, not necessarily what we'll go with. We then plan to advertise this pali suli (grand task) to various Toki Pona communities across the Web, from which there is a sizable number (estimated in the thousands) of tokiponists to draw. Now that this request has been filed, we will launch that pali suli, but in the mean time, we would request that LangCom defer consideration until the effort is underway.

A closing thought: There are many Wikimedians who may wish to do interlanguage work but only speak their native language. If approved, a new Toki Pona Wikipedia would be the Wikipedia that it is easiest to learn the language of. This could create a beneficial hub of collaboration and learning for editors from across the Wikimedia movement, and would mean that with quite little study, an editor from the U.S. and an editor from China could converse about contributing to the sum of all human knowledge. I think that's pretty cool.

For myself, Tbodt, and others from the lipu Wikipesija community, -- Tamzin[cetacean needed] (she/they) 18:15, 7 March 2022 (UTC)

DiscussionEdit

@GTbot2007: I think you need to fullfill your RFL page, with a brief summary on the above section that why you think we need to let Wikipesija back as tok.wikipedia.org? You need to provide reasons to demonstrate that the Toki Pona has independently proved number of speakers, use as an auxiliary language outside of online communities created solely for the purpose, usage outside of Wikimedia, publication of works in the language for general sale.

Anyway, can the eligibility for coming Toki Pona back be discussed within langcom mailing list? I don't expect the relative discussions be always publicly shown (iirc the eligibility discussions about Kotava were privately), but there needs discussions on analysing it per LPP#Requisites for eligibility§4.2 to clear the minds of all users interested in this page. --Liuxinyu970226 (talk) 01:59, 7 March 2022 (UTC)

Per incubator:I:AN#tok_code_doesn't_work, probably @Pablo Federico Streccia Viera and Mahmudmasri: are also interested in this RFL? --Liuxinyu970226 (talk) 02:04, 7 March 2022 (UTC)
There is not anything saying it has to be wikipesija.org’s text being used, I just used Wikipesija as a transliteration of Wikipeida. GTbot2007 (talk) 15:04, 15 March 2022 (UTC)
Well yes, but why start from scratch when there's an existing Wikipedia-like project in toki pona, and a community built around that? -- Tamzin[cetacean needed] (she/they) 20:58, 21 March 2022 (UTC)
Well we probably don’t need the nimi namespace GTbot2007 (talk) 12:46, 31 March 2022 (UTC)
Why not? A number of Wikipedias have in-house Wiktionaries under the same domain, and this is smaller than that, just a dictionary for Toki Pona words, of which there's only 120-140. -- Tamzin[cetacean needed] (she/they) 02:13, 1 April 2022 (UTC)
The problem is that if your request on additional namespaces are just about words, the idea will probably conflict with the Wiktionary's purposes, so why not try to start Toki Pona Wiktionary? Liuxinyu970226 (talk) 05:50, 1 April 2022 (UTC)
Existing Wikipedias have separate namespaces for hosting content that others have in separate wikis (dictionary / books etc.) so that would be nothing new. -- MF-W 11:46, 1 April 2022 (UTC)
To add on to what MF-Warburg said, lipu Wikipesija's nimi namespace isn't meant to serve as a dictionary for all languages, but rather just for the 120-140 words of Toki Pona. Having such a small number of words is what makes Toki Pona unique, so it seems reasonable for a Toki Pona Wikipedia to devote some space to defining them. -- Tamzin[cetacean needed] (she/they) 01:49, 8 April 2022 (UTC)
For the record, this is something that (albeit a bit controversial) did happen on a larger scale at Scots Wikipedia (Define:Main Page). –MJLTalk 16:47, 8 April 2022 (UTC)
@MF-Warburg: Well, switch back to main topic of this page, in your opinion can Toki Pona be eligible for a Wikipedia now? Or this request should still be rejected despite got a valid ISO code? Sorry for my repeat, but I still can't see any related threads through [2]. --Liuxinyu970226 (talk) 02:50, 8 April 2022 (UTC)
The requestor said "we would request that LangCom defer consideration", so I'm waiting on some signal from them we should start considering. -- MF-W 09:29, 8 April 2022 (UTC)
I did not say that GTbot2007 (talk) 12:39, 25 April 2022 (UTC)
@GTbot2007: MF-W was referring to Tamzin. –MJLTalk 17:37, 25 April 2022 (UTC)
As someone said before, I'm also interesed on a Toki pona Wikipedia, I think the Toki pona subreddit is a prove that there is some Toki pona speakers. I tried to create a Toki pona incubator proyect some time before, but they said the same arguments. I think now that with some people interesed in translate articles (we can ask for help in the subreddit) we can do this proyect. PFSV-UY (talk) 05:56, 24 September 2022 (UTC)
To side with the Wikipedia request, a Wikisource should be considered. There's a lot of texts in the category, but only two active editors. Erick Soares3 (talk) 11:13, 28 October 2022 (UTC)
  Support I am also interested in a Toki Pona Wikipedia. I think now that it has a ISO code and a much more vivid community than 2005 the situation has changed enough to make it possible. --Stefangrotz (talk) 21:46, 1 February 2023 (UTC)