Talk:Future of Affiliate Gatherings

Comment on "Discussing the future of global affiliate gatherings"

(Repeating what was posted at: Talk:Wikimedia_Summit_2024#Comment_on_"Discussing_the_future_of_global_affiliate_gatherings" so we make sure the right folks see it.)

• I would suggest that the group of folks listed as looking into the future of affiliate gatherings engage members of the Wikimania Steering committee (of which I am one). Other than the Wikimedia Summit, Wikimania is the effort that deals with the most logistics relevant to what might be needed for an affiliates meeting or a Global Council meeting. We consider things like travel proximity to our community, costs/scholarships, regional rotation, trust/safety issues, and visa considerations. Therefore, we are very happy to be involved with this conversation as soon as possible, and have already started discussing within the Wikimania committee how the next few Wikimania locales could possibly support functions similar to what Wikimedia Summit/Berlin has in the past few years. The chairs of the committee are Phoebe and Iopensa, so feel free to get in touch with them, or I can relay any messages. Ping to FULBERT, NANöR, SRientjes, Shahadusadik, TheAafi, Olaniyan Olushola, Windblown29, Emmanuelle Guebo (Wikimedia username?)

Cheers. - Fuzheado (talk) 02:27, 24 April 2024 (UTC)

Hello @Fuzheado and thanks for the suggestion. The Summit is currently in transition as we understand the 2024 was the last of its kind and our team would be working on designing a new concept and strategy for the next Summit. Subject to the affiliate gatherings survey report and what happened at the Summit, my team would be doing a lot of evaluation and learning from other perspectives, of course, from Wikimania folks. This is so because a vast number of people want the Summit to be rotated. I assure you that we will engage with all possible stakeholders and actors who can contribute in shaping the future of this gathering. Best regards, ─ Aafī (talk) 02:59, 24 April 2024 (UTC)

@Fuzheado Thanks for your helpful suggestions. We heard and learned from some representatives of other conference organizers through this process while at the Summit, and we knew that the Wikimania Steering committee would also likely be willing to share what they have learned across their own years of service. We appreciate your pinging us about this and are grateful for your offers of assistance. FULBERT (talk) 09:58, 24 April 2024 (UTC)

Thanks @Aafi and @FULBERT for confirming the opportunity to work together. In case folks missed it, the next two locations for Wikimania after this year have been selected already, which is a new phenomenon for the Wikimania planning:

• Wikimania 2025 - East Africa (city being determined)
• Wikimania 2026 - Paris, France

Full details can be read on diff. - Fuzheado (talk) 13:00, 24 April 2024 (UTC)

@Fuzheado Thank you for this additional information. FULBERT (talk) 14:37, 24 April 2024 (UTC)

As we ready for Wikimania in August, I'm wondering if any of the folks on the "Future of global affiliates gatherings" will be in Katowice, and whether we wanted to meetup to discuss issues, even if it's a casual lunch or drinks. Thanks. - Fuzheado (talk) 17:23, 16 May 2024 (UTC)

Hi @Fuzheado, sounds really cool. I will be at Wikimania in August. Shahadusadik (talk) 15:02, 18 May 2024 (UTC)

Thanks @Shahadusadik! We are having Wikimania Steering Committee meetings on August 6, will you or others be there by then so we might meet up to talk?

The WikiInAfrica show [1] with @Windblown29 and @Aafi just concluded and talked about the future of Affiliate Gatherings. It was great to hear about the current thought processes (maybe every other year for a gathering) with plans to expand the team membership. There is a big overlap in purposes and logistics for a gathering like this gathering and Wikimania. It would be a shame to work in isolation when we could be sharing experiences on visas, travel, hybrid tech platform, trust & safety, and more. It would also help us figure out as the Wikimania Steering Committee whether to encourage (or not) regions to host Wikimania if the affiliate gathering has plans for a certain location in mind.

Thanks, and keep us informed on how many folks from the committee we might be able to meet at Wikimania. - Fuzheado (talk) 17:26, 24 May 2024 (UTC)

Yes. I will be there on the 6th. Some of my colleagues will also be at Wikimania. Looking forward to that. Cheers! Shahadusadik (talk) 00:11, 13 June 2024 (UTC)

One of the main issues I would like to outline is the fact that the Wikimedia Summit has been traditionally highly restricted to representants of Wikimedia Affiliates. This means restricting access to many individuals, either because they are not « representants » or because their groups are not affiliates, or because they do not belong to any affiliation system. Traditionally, the Wikimania Conference host about 2 or 3 pre-conference days where a smaller crowd has the opportunity to discuss transversal topics, host small related summit, network, hack, or explore strategic topics. If the Wikimedia Summit was moved to twin with Wikimania, it could happen immediately before or immediately after Wikimania (most likely before as Wikimania is quite exhausting). In any cases, it would probably means those 2 pre-conference days would either entirely disappear or be highly crippled by the co-happening of the Wikimedia Summit. Yet, I see that the survey (answered only affiliates) as well as the results of the discussion during the last Wikimedia Summit show there is a desire to limit attendance to affiliates, pretty much in the same way it is currently happening. Those would have a super detrimental impact on all those who are not allowed to join the Wikimedia Summit. What do you suggest to mitigate that ? Anthere (talk) 10:49, 25 April 2024 (UTC)

I agree we need to be careful and intentional with any type of possible combined conference or experience. Some thoughts:

• Regarding Anthere's concern that the event may "limit attendance to affiliates" – I too wonder if this is the assumption the planning group is working with. The survey does use language such as "affiliate-only gathering" and "exclusively for its affiliates" but it's not obvious this is a direction that survey respondents chose and reflects their opinions, or whether this is simply checking the box of pre-determined language in the original survey.
• Burnout from longer events is very real, and we need to be especially sensitive to those who are participating in a language that is not their "mother-tongue." For that reason, we need to look very seriously about upgrading and maintaining our commitment to simultaneous interpretation in major languages. I recall for some of the Berlin Wikimedia Summits when Movement Strategy brainstorming and collaboration was high, we did have simultaneous interpretation booths, but I'm not sure what the situation was in 2024 in Berlin as I was not there.
• One unusual benefit of COVID forcing us to do Wikimania virtual in 2021 is that we ventured into multilingual interpretation support, which we have continued to do (while not always perfect, it was a big accompolishment over previous Wikimanias) with Singapore as a hybrid conference. Whatever the case, we need to make sure to resource this properly for any meaningful future affiliates gathering, and that is something where working with Wikimania may have some good logistical efficiencies.
• That said, I think there are ways to have the equivalent of learning days at Wikimania within a longer, crowded, and combined event. As we get bigger, there are just going to be times where you cannot attend everything you want. Fortunately, with the hybrid approach we have now, most of these sessions will be recorded for later consumption.

- Fuzheado (talk) 15:44, 25 April 2024 (UTC)

+ 1 to Andrew's and Antanana's. In particular, we need to ensure that many non-native English speakers can participate effectively. At Wikimania 2022 we talked about this issue and some challenges and lessons about participating in an international event and English as a tool for either inclusion or exclusion were made visible.

I also think it is a very good idea to learn more about how our colleagues behave in these environments, not only quantitatively, but also what non-statistical data can show us. ProtoplasmaKid (talk) 16:58, 25 April 2024 (UTC)

Hi everyone,

Yael here, Vice President of Community Growth at WMF. On Sunday, I met with the group of volunteers who stepped up at Summit to help the movement think about the future of the Affiliates gathering. When I first met with them a few weeks ago they had asked for clarity around the role of this group and what its commitments or expectations are. On Sunday, I shared with them what I’m sharing here.

Per the purpose statement of the Summit, it was the intent of the Summit Steering Committee that a group of Affiliates would start discussing the future of Affiliate gatherings, and make a commitment to designing a new concept. It was not a foregone conclusion that this would mean establishing a formal Committee made up exclusively of individuals who were in attendance at the Summit. When WMF stands up formal volunteer committees, we hold open calls and / or elections for them (e.g., Regional Funds Committees, Elections Committee, AffCom, U4C, etc.).

Our recommendation is that instead of meetings taking place by a subset of people who were at the Summit, we continue to hold public discussion on this talk page, to gather input from the movement about the unique needs of affiliates and how we might support them. As others have noted on this page there are downsides to closed meetings restricted to limited representatives and co-locating this event with another may help open up new connections.

I think it is helpful to anchor the discussions taking place here and elsewhere in the 3 Assumptions [[2]] articulated in the Summit programme: Namely, that: 1) For the future, there may be more equitable and participatory ways to design and organize an annual affiliate gathering – in line with principles and recommendations of Movement Strategy. 2) Defining the purpose and scope of future affiliate gatherings will depend on the content of the Movement Charter, particularly the roles and responsibilities of the Global Council and the affiliates. 3) Designing the future events that will replace the Wikimedia Summit will take time and require a transition period. Therefore, we don’t expect the next event to happen before 2026.

I’m eager to continue working together to design an offering for Affiliates that responds to the needs articulated in the Survey many of you contributed to. To the group that has been gathering since the Summit, my hope is that you can share any design ideas or recommendations you have here on this page for us to collectively engage with.

I look forward to continuing to follow the discussion here, and please don’t hesitate to ping me here or email me if you have any questions or suggestions for how we could do this. RWeissburg (WMF) (talk) 19:13, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

Message to the Steering Committee of the Wikimedia Summit

Wikimedia Foundation

• Nataliia Tymkiv, Chair of the Board of Trustees
• Maryana Iskander, CEO and Executive Director
• Jaime Villagomez, Chief Financial Officer
• Maggie Dennis, Vice President, Community Resilience & Sustainability

Wikimedia Deutschland

• Alice Wiegand, Chair of the Supervisory Board
• Franziska Heine, Executive Director
• Maiken Hagemeister, Director of Communications and Events
• Nicole Ebber, Director Governance and Global Relations

One of the objectives of the Wikimedia Summit 2024 was to initiate a discussion on the “future of global affiliate gatherings.” This resulted in setting up a group ‘that would start the reflection on affiliate gatherings and propose a concept’. (See Wikimedia_Summit_2024/Documentation/Day_3 for more information)

After a request for volunteers during the Summit, nine Wikimedians volunteered to be part of this group during the Summit, with the understanding that others could and would join in the future to make the group more representative of the movement. (One volunteer had to withdraw due to time constraints).

As far as we - the remaining members of the group and signatories of this letter - understand, the idea to establish such a group was discussed with, and agreed to, by the Summit Steering Committee. Please confirm if so.

We met as a group for a first online meeting on April 28, a week after the Summit. It became immediately clear that there was no clear mandate or assignment for the group. Were we a ‘real committee’? And if so, whose committee were we? What would be the status of any advice or recommendations we produced? Indeed: what advice or recommendations were expected of us?

We decided that these issues had to be clarified before we started investing time and energy in our work, and before we invited any other participants to join the group.

We reached out to the WMF to get insight on the perspective they, as the funder of any future affiliate gatherings, had on the role/position of our group and its work. We had initially been told at the Summit that we would be provided staff support to help with our scheduling and meeting planning, along with support to help in our initial brainstorming and ideation. (We want to thank Yael Weissburg for acting as our liaison to WMF! )

We received the following feedback:

• The group set up at the Summit is not a WMF committee and has no formal standing within the organisational framework of WMF. It was never the intention of the WMF to set up such a formal committee to explore the future of affiliate gatherings. WMF understands it to be a self-nominated group of volunteers that are interested in co-designing the future of affiliate gatherings, and as such welcomes input from this group - and others -about what the future of affiliate gatherings looks like.
• In the view of the WMF, the process of deciding on the future of affiliate gatherings requires a wide consultation and discussion process - preferably via Meta - to which the entire movement should be able to contribute
• The WMF feels that making any decisions about the future of affiliate gatherings will only be possible once there is clarity about the future decision making structure in the movement, especially concerning the role and operations of a Global Council. Such decisions would include what the gathering looks like, how it is funded, and what tradeoffs need to be made to implement it . However, WMF believes it is possible to start a more general discussion about the future we aspire to.

As to be expected, this information left us confused and somewhat disoriented.

We decided to report back to the Steering Committee of the Wikimedia Summit (and also to the Summit participants) and together seek clarification:

• When the 2024 Summit Steering Committee decided to set up a group to explore the future of affiliate gatherings during the Wikimedia Summit, what were its expectations of the role, mandate and output of that group?
• Does the Steering Committee also think that decision-making on the future of affiliate gatherings is not possible until there is clarity about Movement Charter and Global Council? If so, when is that clarity expected?
• What would be the role of the group established during the Summit - if any - in the community consultation and discussion process foreseen by WMF, given this was one of the two stated Purposes of the event itself?

As a group, we are temporarily suspending our work until we have a better understanding of where we are at the moment, and what our purpose is. However, we remain fully committed to helping design the future of affiliate gatherings, as we committed to this work due to our shared agreement on how important and valuable events are to help foster the global Affiliate network.

Rajene Hardeman, Wikimedia New York City

Jeffrey, Affiliations Committee

NANöR, Wiki World Heritage

Olaniyan Olushola, Wikimedia Community Nigeria

Aafi, Deoband Community Wikimedia

Emmanuelle Guebo, Wikimedia Community Côte d'Ivoire

Sadik Shahadu, Dagbani Wikimedians User Group

Sandra Rientjes, Wikimedia Nederland Sandra Rientjes (WMNL) (talk) 20:03, 28 June 2024 (UTC)

In case the pings above didn't work: @Nataliia Tymkiv, @Maryana Iskander, @Jaime Villagomez, @Maggie Dennis, @Alice Wiegand, @Franziska Heine, @Maiken Hagemeister, and Nicole Ebber. _signed, Aafi (DCW) ^(talk) 10:03, 30 June 2024 (UTC)

Reply from the Steering Committee

Hello, working group. I’m responding on behalf of the 2024 Wikimedia Summit Steering Committee to respond to your questions and clarify our intent. I do apologize it took a bit of time; with individual schedules, it took a bit of time to align across the group of us.

You ask three questions. We will respond inline.

When the 2024 Summit Steering Committee decided to set up a group to explore the future of affiliate gatherings during the Wikimedia Summit, what were its expectations of the role, mandate and output of that group?

Since 2009, Wikimedia Deutschland has organized the summit. This year, both Wikimedia Deutschland and the Foundation agreed that it was time for the broader affiliate community to take over the design and hosting of these gatherings. We hoped that by the end of the summit, a group of people would volunteer to design an affiliate gathering, with the input of and to meet the needs of the broader affiliate community. We also hoped that with a clear design proposal, one of the affiliates might volunteer to host and coordinate an event, perhaps as soon as 2026.

The 2024 Wikimedia Summit Steering Committee and participating Affiliates have given the working group the mandate to design a concept.  The Steering Committee does not have the authority to decide if the proposed design is acceptable to the broader movement. We suggest that the working group will, in proposing its design, consider all the input that was provided by affiliates at the 2024 Summit and other affiliates who responded to the survey as well as the reports published detailing the experiences of years past.

Does the Steering Committee also think that decision-making on the future of affiliate gatherings is not possible until there is clarity about Movement Charter and Global Council? If so, when is that clarity expected?

Yes. Among our program 2 assumptions was the following: “Defining the purpose and scope of future affiliate gatherings will depend on the content of the Movement Charter, particularly the roles and responsibilities of the Global Council and the affiliates.” When the Steering Committee set the goals in summer 2023, we didn't know the content or timeline of the Movement Charter. We always wanted to ensure that this gathering fits into a thoughtful strategy for the movement. We believed it was important to allow the ratified Movement Charter to set the guidelines for any future affiliate meeting. The current charter and proposals don’t lay the ground for any new large-scale global gathering. Even in the case that a Global Council is set up in the next few years, it will take time for it to consult with movement bodies on their needs and expectations for an event. We believe that in the meantime, affiliates might want to use a space to discuss and work on affiliate matters.

After considering any criteria laid out in the Movement Charter, a design proposal must come first before many decisions can be made. For example, once the design is ready, key stakeholders can decide:

• Does the proposed design have stakeholder support?
• Is the meeting cost justified by its expected impact?
• Is there an affiliate able to host the event that meets the movement's needs (such as visas and safety)?
• What are the movement funds available for this event?

A well-thought-out design will make it easier for stakeholders to evaluate. It will help potential hosts decide if they can meet the movement's needs. It will also help funding bodies compare the cost with other movement priorities.

What would be the role of the group established during the Summit - if any - in the community consultation and discussion process foreseen by WMF, given this was one of the two stated Purposes of the event itself?

The Steering Committee always expected this working group to propose ideas that meet the needs of affiliates. This includes considering the wishes of those who could and could not attend the Summit and ensuring the design meets affiliates' strategic needs. The Steering Committee envisioned the working group as independent and did not intend to commit staffing from either the Foundation or WMDE; such staffing was not built into the annual plans of either organization. While the Steering Committee did not discuss how the working group might choose to operate, we envisioned  that a diverse working group would get actively involved in any discussions to better inform their approach.  

To sum up, the Steering Committee wanted a group of affiliate members to volunteer for a working group to propose a design. We believe this gathering has been important to the movement, and we hoped to pass the responsibility to a new generation of volunteer affiliates to consider how it might operate in the future.

Best regards,

For the 2024 Wikimedia Summit Steering Committee

Maggie Dennis (WMF) (talk) 13:26, 12 July 2024 (UTC)

Just out of curiosity, are you applying the same four questions to all Wikimedia events or just this one? And how would the answers to those questions look like for Wikimania for example? Philip Kopetzky (talk) 15:04, 12 July 2024 (UTC)

I'm not sure if this was a general question, Philip, but just in case not, the Wikimedia Summit Steering Committee was focused narrowly on the Summit. It's outside of the purview of this committee to talk about how Wikimedia events broadly are reviewed in terms of cost/benefit, and Wikimania has its own steering committee. Maggie Dennis (WMF) (talk) 14:36, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

Sorry, it is a general question in the sense that it might be worthwhile to look outside of this specific silo and maybe create some consistency in terms of how the WMF views events and what it expects of those it finances. Philip Kopetzky (talk) 08:37, 15 July 2024 (UTC)

Response from Future of Affiliate Gatherings Working Group

@Mdennis (WMF) we want to thank you and the Summit Steering Committee for your reply and your ongoing commitment to strengthening the Affiliate ecosystem.

We feel it is essential to meet and decide how affiliates will work together in the future, and how the Affiliates and WMF will interact and cooperate, with or without a Movement Charter as a constitutional framework.

Given that there appears to be an indefinite delay of the Movement Charter and Global Council, we think it is important that there be a Summit for Affiliates in 2025 to gather - online or in person - to address their needs, and collectively come up with a plan for future Affiliate Gatherings. We feel that we can not at this point make meaningful steps towards designing any future Affiliate gathering before these crucial issues are addressed in a 2025 Summit.

We are also still uncertain about our remit and resources as a volunteer working group, including clarification about our mandate, support, and partnership with the WMF.  

We want to use our session at Wikimania on August 7 as an introduction to the community about the potential status of ongoing Affiliate gatherings, especially with a need to meet in 2025. It is important for the community to understand the opportunities that may be missed due to a lack of an Affiliate gathering. We hope to organize a poll after Wikimania to get more insight in Affiliate opinions about a 2025 meeting.

We are still committed to working towards the future of Affiliate gatherings and to contributing to the development of a 2025 Affiliate gathering.

We are looking forward to hearing whether WMF agrees with our assessment and is willing to make available resources for a 2025 gathering.

On behalf of the Future of Affiliate Gatherings Working Group, FULBERT (talk) 18:13, 4 August 2024 (UTC)

Hello, FULBERT et al. :) Thank you for your note. Since my colleagues who would be involved in thinking about this future gathering are already traveling, I'll make sure they are aware. I hope that they will be able to join you for that session. --Maggie Dennis (WMF) (talk) 18:11, 5 August 2024 (UTC)

@Mdennis (WMF) Thank you, Maggie. Let's hope the session today at Wikimania may help with some future direction on our Future of Affiliate Gatherings group. FULBERT (talk) 11:42, 7 August 2024 (UTC)

General comments

Why do affiliate gatherings need support, approval, or facilitation by the WMF? It makes sense for WMF participants to be invited, but there's certainly no need to wait on information about the Foundation's views to make plans.

I was surprised at the Summit when the spokesperson for the group who had met to discuss this said on stage that you were waiting for the WMF to assign a facilitator to support future group meetings; that sounded subsidiary and dependent in an unnecessary way. This letter feels like an extension of that position, which may not be healthy for the affiliates or for the broader movement.

Philip Kopetzky if this is just a discussion about where financial support for gatherings comes from, I agree there should be consistency; also we have a range of more and less self-sufficient and efficient models for events in our movement. But one tends to develop plans and frameworks before funding is secured. –SJ talk  06:49, 8 August 2024 (UTC)

@Sj I think what is needed is greater clarity as to what the vision and plans of the WMF are considering their affiliates. Since there is no support forthcoming, we can just call it a Wikimedia organisations gathering and start setting it up ourselves. The ability to participate and attend in-person is severely hampered though by the centralising of resources within the WMF, and we already have an annual Wikimedia Europe meeting that acts a bit as an European Wikimedia organisations' gathering, where organisations have to fund travel themselves, with the to be expected exclusion of less well organised organisations and communities. Philip Kopetzky (talk) 06:58, 8 August 2024 (UTC)

Support for integral global gatherings is a common (and healthy) reason for establishing a global coordination body, and an annual task that has to be done regardless of where it is seated. I also would like to gently push back on the idea that affiliates belong to the WMF; they are rather affiliates of the movement, within which the WMF is responsible for brand stewardship, but a community body is responsible for recognition and derecognition. –SJ talk  08:58, 8 August 2024 (UTC)

Hello @Sj. Just to clarify the issue concerning facilitation by WMF: the group started meeting - under its own steam, at its own initiative and without WMF involvement - within a week of the Wikimedia Summit. We continued to meet - independently - until we came to the point where we realised that we needed to have a longer, more in depth discussion about fundamental issues. At that point we reached out to WMF, who had offered to support our work, and asked if they could provide a facilitator for that specific meeting. Also at that point, we realised that the remit of our group was very unclear and things came to a halt. But, we weren't waiting to be 'facilitated by WMF', we asked for 'a facilitator' to ensure one specific complex meeting would be efficient. Sandra Rientjes (WMNL) (talk) 08:29, 9 August 2024 (UTC)

Thanks for clarifying Sandra. I do feel that every part of our movement should be able provide its own facilitators; not only is our movement composed of people who are skilled at deliberation and sense-making, it is the sort of capacity that (in the spirit of subsidiarity) one would hope every organization to have or build their own contacts for. Where the WMF can support that sort of capacity building, that seems promising. Warmly, –SJ talk  09:06, 9 August 2024 (UTC)

Survey on future of affiliate gatherings

FYI - As the Future of Affiliate Gatherings Group, we will shortly be reaching out to all Wikimedia affiliates via the all-affiliates list with a concise survey to assess current thoughts about future affiliate gatherings.

We know the 2024 Summit organisers held a more extensive survey among affiliates In November 2023. We believe that the results of this survey are still valid and want to avoid repeating it.

Our survey is a follow-up and refresher. We especially want to check if recent developments in the movement - such as the failure to ratify the Movement Charter - have affected the opinions and needs of affiliates concerning future gatherings. On behalf of the group, Sandra Rientjes (WMNL) (talk) 15:02, 23 September 2024 (UTC)