User talk:Eihel/2012-2018

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Welcome to Meta!Edit

Hello, Eihel/2012-2018. Welcome to the Wikimedia Meta-Wiki! This website is for coordinating and discussing all Wikimedia projects. You may find it useful to read our policy page. If you are interested in doing translations, visit Meta:Babylon. You can also leave a note on Meta:Babel or Wikimedia Forum (please read the instructions at the top of the page before posting there). Happy editing!

-- Meta-Wiki Welcome (talk) 00:44, 27 August 2012 (UTC)

Contributions on Talk pages in nl.wiktionaryEdit

The working language on nl.wiktionary is Dutch. We only use English when we know we are addressing someone who doesn't speak Dutch. It is desirable that when users only known by IP-number are making mistakes on nl.wiktionary they primarily are addressed in Dutch and can react on a page at nl.wiktionary itself. We have our own policies and templates to deal with vandalism of the sort you reverted on wikt:nl:achterdochtig. If you want to acquaint yourself with those, I can point you the pages in question. They are however in Dutch. I would politely request that you don't use messages like the one on wikt:nl:Overleg gebruiker: on nl.wiktionary. --MarcoSwart (talk) 20:43, 18 November 2018 (UTC)

model nl used Hello @MarcoSwart: Thank you for your message. I'm part of the SWMT. --Eihel (talk) 00:18, 19 November 2018 (UTC)
In cases of vandalism, {{ws}} is even simpler to use: it uses the pagename to select the form for named or anonymous users. This type of vandalism is often due to bored pupils using a school computer. In these cases we usually start using templates after repeated vandalism. They crave attention above all, so reacting slowly and minimally is often an effective strategy. But in order to discourage "calculating" vandals we also intentionally leave vandal fighters some room for personal judgment, so using the template this time is not a problem.
I noticed you being part of SWMT, but when you edit on nl.wiktionary you are considered a member of the Wikiwoordenboek community. We may appear small but at the moment we have enough editors to keep the wiki in good shape. About once a year we are confronted with the occasional spammer trying for weeks to find a way to get in: those are the times some help really would be useful. Is there a way to inform the SWMT when this happens? --MarcoSwart (talk) 11:44, 19 November 2018 (UTC)
Hello @MarcoSwart:, I did not want to make a laius (still an old foreign word) all that is friendly, but since you write me again... SWMT members don't know all languages, far from it. When there is vandalism, I leave a message to the person concerned. I write in English, but I don't ask you to write in my mother tongue and I don't know Dutch (or all its inclinations) to write you in your language. For example, I live in Switzerland and without Babel (so IP) you would not know whether to write to me in German, French, Italian or Romansh. By the way, there is also the same version in English, right? Whether it's {{waarschuwing-Engels}} or its contracted form {{ws-en}}. As it is an IP, you assume that it is a schoolboy (m or w) who speaks Dutch. Even with WHOIS, it's hard to know. If you come to write me in Dutch here, I will not take offense. There are so many ways to translate a text right now. For my part, I am obliged to do the same during my patrols. The schoolboy may learn more Face-tongue.svg and I do the same for an adult and for a Nepali page. WM considers that English can be applied to write to someone when one does not know the local language. As I don't blame you when a local admin transforms my local writings, it makes sense. Because I also feel a little bitterness about my Dutch intervention, look at this section to understand better.
For your question, you can contact a global admin (Steward and sysop). Also, I would ask you if you are familiar with IRC? Looking forward to reading you, I wish you a good evening. --Eihel (talk) 20:37, 19 November 2018 (UTC)
Thank you for the answer. I am aware of the existence of IRC, but I prefer less distracting forms of communication. The SWMT and the page you mentioned are familiar too; several members of the team have contributed to nl.wiktionary, but mostly by rolling back cross-wiki vandalism or spamming and in those cases it is usually not necessary to leave a message on a user page. The reason I guess this anonymous user might well be a Dutch speaking schoolboy has to do with his edit summary. In cases like these it is quite possible that this user page will first be read by another schoolboy or -girl using this school computer in the future. He or she may know nothing about the vandalism. For that reason we are a little reluctant even to use our standard template in cases like these, alhough the template text does mention this possibility. I understand it is impossible to know all languages of the wikis you assist. In the case of nl.wiktionary it's OK if you just rollback the vandalism or spam and let us judge what type of communication (if any) with the vandal or spammer is called for. That seems more efficient that transforming your edits and more in line with "However, some projects (…) may have active enough communities and AVFs should respect their decisions." We don't have enough foreign vandals to necessitate {{waarschuwing-Engels}}. There is no bitterness on my part, but among Dutch speakers there is sometimes strong resentment against unnecessary use of English. It would create a strange impression if Dutch wiktionary would appear to use English as a language to address Dutch speakers. We are big enough to avoid that situation. Your help in fighting vandalism is greatly appreciated, though. --MarcoSwart (talk) 22:35, 19 November 2018 (UTC)

@MarcoSwart: I therefore subscribe to the second part of your message. Here is the list of SWs. There is SW and SW: the SWs are determined on divers criteria. If you want: nl.wiktionary is a big SW Face-tongue.svg. There is no way like a dedicated page on Wikimedia to talk to the SWMT in its entirety, that's why I'm talking about IRC. I complete with some information:

  • On Steward requests/Miscellaneous, you have to fill the request and apply to a global admin, then you have to wait for an answer, then... In short, it's the traditional way, but it's not real-time.
  • Here are the SWMT members. Do not write them on their Talk page for help with vandalism. Active member also means senior staff member (duration and rights). One way to address the SWMT is to go "through" its #cvn-sw channel, but the requests are handled by bots and will probably go unnoticed. The really active members (at the time of your request) are listed in it.
  • freenode is the IRC network used on all Wikimedia, so all the links I am pointing out are on freenode. Anything that is detected as potential vandalism is automatically listed in the IRC channel #cvn-swconnect and processed. It is therefore not necessary to contact SWMT members on this channel (drowned in the mass). You can believe me I have already tried in the beginning.

In order of importance (choose preferably 1, then 2), the two ways to obtain the requested help are:

  1. Contact global sysop (and stews) on #wikimedia-gsconnect, then write !gs <request>. For example, replace <request> starting with I am [[User:YOURUSERNAME]] (the username on Wikimedia) and the relevant wiki (nl.wiktionary).
  2. Contrary to Glabal sysops, the only way to interact with the SWMT is to go to #countervandalismconnect, then write !staff <request>, same principle as before. This channel is reachable by #cvn-sw too (top of the irc page). Many Global sysops and Global rollbackers are members of SWMT.

These are bots who do the work and contact the team. After a few seconds, an intervener of SWMT staff will answer you. You can copy this link in a corner {{Channel|wikimedia-gs}}. The instructions are at the top of the channel pages for reminder. Do not test on the channels, it is not too appreciated. As you did not look very safe, I'd rather explain. Here are all the irc channels. Do not hesitate to ask me more questions. Well, have fun. --Eihel (talk) 02:42, 20 November 2018 (UTC)

Thanks again for the extensive answer. Now I know what I can do if we face another sustained big spam attack in the future. --MarcoSwart (talk) 12:42, 20 November 2018 (UTC)

Note on SWMTEdit

When you are patrolling, please focus only on blatant or otherwise obvious vandalism. We are not there to patrol content or article quality; that is for the editing community as, in most cases, SWMT members are unfamiliar with the language and local policies and guidelines. Thank you, Vermont (talk) 12:06, 24 November 2018 (UTC)

@Vermont: I took note, thank you. --Eihel (talk) 14:52, 24 November 2018 (UTC)

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