User talk:Aphaia/Archive7

Active discussions

Foundation WikiEdit

Hi Aphaia. I would like to ask you to create a user account for me on the foundation wiki. I do not plan to be extremely active there, but I would like to be able to use the account for the occassional creating and editing of Hebrew translations for important pages (among them the Home page).

I am mostly active on Wikisource (admin in English, beurocrat in Hebrew) and also a long-time contributor to Wikipedia. Dovi 06:41, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

Please submit your request for account to request page. Thank you! For your information, all translations are principally done on meta first and moved to the wiki. So you can start your work for now even without translation.--Aphaia 11:30, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

WMF/Wikimedia visual identity guidelines/EsEdit

I just translated Translation requests/WMF/Wikimedia visual identity guidelines/Es but I don't know who to inform so it can be used at the WMF site. Do you have other pages that need translation ASAP? drini 22:11, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

Hello, Drini. Thank you for your translation! To inform a translation of WMF content is done and ready to upload to the website, we usually leave a comment besindes the link to the translated page on TR/WMF. You also will find other requests there including "Current staff" (original version).
To pick up not yet translated page, Wikimedia:Wikimedia:Site map would be useful in general. Again thanks! --Aphaia 00:58, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

WMF NewsEdit

Aphaiaさん、WMF News-jaを翻訳しました。お手数ですが、foundationwikiにアップロード前にスタイル・文法等、確認して頂ければ幸いです。よろしくお願いします。 - Tangotango 07:30, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

Protest at en.WPEdit

I completely agree with you feelings on this issue, but I would ask you to give the community there a chance to re-examine the policy before leaving the project and starting a wider protest. I don't imagine that many people thought about the wider scope of that policy before now, and I think it is important that people like you are involved in the discussion of this issue. If the en.WP community, after discussion, decides to continue to keep non-latin Usernames as a bannable offence I will join your protest as I am sure many others will. But please give them sometime to re-adjust their thinking on the matter.--BirgitteSB 18:17, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

Thank you for your message, if English Wikipedia community is going to re-examine the policy, it is welcome. From both emotional and practical reason, I won't be involved to the discussion on English Wikipedia (I have a lots to do elsewhere and I wouldn't like to be there), I'm willingly not to go wider campaign, including in other languages, however would like to keep it as is for now. For foundation-l & wikipedia-l thread, I think it a dicsussion within the community, and possibly not what you meant as "wider protest". Thought?
As Andre Engels rightly mentioned on the list, when SUL comes, username policy could go easily a global issue. So a bad atmosphere is silently spreading and that is why I jumped in at that moment; without my intervention, murmuring occured and will not cease unless the situation changes. I hope the majority of the community mentioned before is thoughtful enough consider the fatal effect of their current policy. --Aphaia 02:54, 26 October 2006 (UTC)
I agree that if nothing is done, it is likely the username policy will go global in the end. However I would very much like to prevent this. I think that the process of taking a policy global will be very ugly. I do not want this ugliness to happen. Luckily we have time to sway opinion on the matter. I understand if you feel it is best to stay apart from the discussion.
Can you tell me if blocked users were ineligable in the last election? I had thought it was said to Jeff on foundation-l that this was so, but some a person at en.WP says they were able to vote despite having imposter accounts blocked on other wiki's.--BirgitteSB 22:36, 26 October 2006 (UTC)
As a Election Official I would clarify,
  1. permenently blocked (note not "banned" since most of community has no rule of distinction between blocking and banning; those are cultural particularity on some communities, minority in number) users were ineligable for vote, hence
    1. no one who was being blocked technically hindered to vote
    2. if they have however accounts on other wiki(s), they can technically vote, or vote interface allowed them to try to vote
  2. Election Officials examined votes (I handchecked 125 votes chosen randomly + some votes which their eligibility was suspected) and remove them, if the person behind the account from which he or she had voted, was proved to be identical with an permenently blocked account holder.
So technically the latter statement is true, but practically false or mistook category.
In addition, there was warning of sanction for disruptiion for Election organization, I am afraid the English Wikipedia policy of "permentently blocking for non Latin username" could have discouraged some people. I know some people who created their account under the same name they used on their home wiki, and forced to rename. Even if they obeyed, it doesn't mean they weren't frustrated; or I should have been aware of this issue still now. --Aphaia 11:28, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

Sock puppets in meta.wikimediaEdit


I have been taking a look at the contributions of the users Axx and Laqab, being both the only supporters of two new wikipedias. I have noticed that Axx seems to be a sock puppet of Laqab (as you can see, they have made almost the same contributions with just a few minutes of difference, and Laqab is the only who has a user in the Italian wikipedia), but I don't know how to report that here (I have read about how to do it in en.wikipedia, but it seems that here it is made in a different way).

Thank you! Eynar Oxartum 00:20, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

Thank you for your notice, I would like to move this issue to Meta:Babel to attract community attention. --Aphaia 02:56, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

Padonki testEdit

I beg your pardon for disturb you, but Padonki test, denied by community, is still not deleted in Incubator. The test contains only original research, abusive and humoristic "articles" whithout any encyclpaedic meaning. There are many protest of native speakers of slvaic languages against that: The test is almost inactive, only one teenager fanatic still write there. The test is abusive for many East Slavs, because the abusive words which are used there are indecent in books and encyclopaedias according to Slavic Culture. Are there any procedure to delete denied tests from incubator? --Yaroslav Zolotaryov 00:48, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

Don't mind, however I expect you may solve the issue within Incubator community. I'll talk with Incubator admin and ask him to help you. --Aphaia 02:55, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

Communications subcommittees/Trans/Newsletter/2006-11Edit

Hello Aphaia.

Description: General information about Wikimedia Foundation. Latest English version was issued in this month.

A "latest English version" , "issued", "in this month" without taking into account the fact that Angela has been replaced by Erik, while Erik's enthronement is dated september 24th on Goings-on seems a little bit outdated. It should be updated before translation begins, shouldn't it? Teofilo 11:24, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

Oddio. Ahem. Well, I thought I could issue it at the end of October, as you guessed perhaps ... and thank you very much for pointing problem. We'll try to improve the page. --Aphaia 16:23, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

Language codesEdit

Hello Aphaia You've left a message for me suggesting that I should put a Transbabel box onto my user page. For this I would need to know the 3-letter langage code. Can you tell me where I can find the list for these, please. Kind regards, LouisBB 00:01, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

Hi, LouisBB! I think you can search it on the website (they manage this code system). If you have further question, I recommend you to contact User talk:SabineCretella. She will be happy to help you. By the way, as for transcom meeting, it will be held at #wikimedia-translation of --Aphaia 00:46, 5 November 2006 (UTC)


Hello, Aphaia, I'm user Anton Kazmyarchuk from be.wikipedia. Sysop from be.wikipedia called EugeneZelenko doesn't want to block the user, that 5 times violated Wikipedia (3 times yesterday) rules, and has 2 notices from sysop. Where do I have to get to and ask someone to tell him to block vandal? Thank you -- 16:39, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

TCPL DraftEdit

Hey Aphaia, I reorginized and rewrote some parts of TCPL page. Final draft is at Talk:Translation coordinators per language. I hope this will be more clear for new potential members to understand the role. Please have a look when you have time. Cheers. --Dbl2010 00:38, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

About wikimedia/Es:Edit

It's been updated and ready to go. Since it didn't show up on the template transcluded on my user page I missed it. I guess I should add another page to my watch. :D about TCPL sounds like a great idea, signme up for es: . I?m joining translators-l and foundation-l right now, as suggested there. Should I request a foundation wiki account? drini 18:00, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

I also suggest contacting zuirdj, he seems to have done great work in the past, and he's helping on other "about wikimedia" stuff like OTRS. drini 18:15, 13 November 2006 (UTC)
Hola, nice to hear you. I believe all involved parties will be happy to see you in the team. As for foundationwiki account, yes, I think it very helpful to make PR in Spanish language.
We have one other mailinglist for mainly organizational things. You'll get later its invitation. We'll be happy to see you again there.
As for Zuirdj, I am glad to see we agreed on that. I wrote him about that to hear his opinion, he seem however to have been busy and I haven't heard from him since last month. Do you have any news about him? --Aphaia 08:36, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

Local translation TeamsEdit

I started a team page as prototype. Purpose is to let translation teams organize under an umbrella. Translation teams page ıs main entrance. And there is a prototype subpage. Turkish translation team. We may move those pages to somewhere else if necessary. Purpose of the pages are explained on the pages. What do you think? --Dbl2010 06:45, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

I love your idea. Perhaps Sabine too. In some days we will reorganize translation related pages, and this page should be one of keystones, I expect; "who does it?" is always a question we would like to be answered clearly. Would you let other coordinators your idea on wikitrans?
As for description of team, I made a modification. I hope my modification acceptable for you.
Again, thanks! --Aphaia 08:40, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

日本語チームを立ち上げてみました(ってまだ一人ですが...)-- 02:29, 18 November 2006 (UTC)

Weird interpretationEdit

Dear Aphaia,

According to the result of the vote Fratele lui B. got the neccesary support for Admin, CheckUser and Birocrat for Moldovan Wikipedia. However, his opponent who lost the elections

  • 11:26, 14 November 2006 Paginazero (Talk | contribs) changed group membership for User:Епуре@mowiki from sysop to (none)
  • 07:26, 14 November 2006 Paginazero (Talk | contribs) changed group membership for User:Епуре@mowiki from (none) to sysop

So, this Epure blocked User:Fratele lui B... see here even if he lost the elections, he was desysoped. That's fine, but can you unblock and give now the status of CheckUser and so on according to the result of the vote here Thank you. Fratele lui B.

Check requestEdit

Please, check the work of news template in russian. It has location on particularly closed site, and I can't use or edit these news. --Egor 14:19, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

Naoko, I think I should handle this request. Egor, please contact me to eliminate the problems you may have found. ACrush ?!/© 09:39, 20 November 2006 (UTC)
Egor, thank you for your note. And thank you ACrush for offering help! I think ACrush is better to solve it than me, he has also its account, and native Russian speaker ;) --Aphaia 10:49, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

RE: TranslationEdit

Hello Kizu! Sorry by the late, but i just see your message today. It's supposed to me create a portuguese tranlsation team? Thanks, Slade pt.wp 03:25, 25 November 2006 (UTC)

Hi Slade, thanks for replying me. I would have liked to know if you are interested to do. It is a sort of invitation but not mandatory.
As a certain language translator (not Portuguese language) said to me before, there is no need of team nor coordinator, if this language has only one translators. When we think Portuguese language, we find several people involved and sometimes exchanged opinions and information. So I guess you Portuguese language translators are ready to have such,
Happy editing! --Aphaia 08:19, 27 November 2006 (UTC)

Spam blacklistEdit

Thanks. They now started with Can you please add it too? --.anaconda 00:48, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

Patrolling your editsEdit

Hello Aphaia. Could you enable automatic patrolling of your edits? This removes the 'unpatrolled' flag on your edits, since you (as an administrator) can be trusted enough that we don't need to check your edits. You can do this in Your preferences > Editing > [x] Mark edits I make as patrolled. Thanks. :) —{admin} Pathoschild 21:07, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

Thank you for showing trust so much ;) I'll activate my preferences. --Aphaia 21:21, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

re: your comment on site feedbackEdit

Hi Aphaia, my comment was in relation to foundation:Press releases/English Wikipedia Announces Thousandth Featured Article, so I think it relates to Foundation wiki. The images I mentioned appear in this press release. They are actually hosted at Commons. See for example .

On meta: and all Wikipedias, such images automatically get a box that says "This is a file from the Wikimedia Commons. The description on its description page there is copied below." (its description page has a link to the Commons description page) Foundation wiki doesn't have this box, so there is no way to "click through" and see who the uploader was, for example. Foundation wiki has a box that says '"This file is a shared upload and may be used by other projects." This is a strange message IMO. I think Foundation wiki should change the box to match Meta and other projects.

I also just want to make the general point that I think the WMF should be very careful in choosing images to put on press releases, and double-triple-check that such images have proper sources and licenses. "It's on Commons so it must be free" is not quite correct; maybe "It's on Commons so it is probably free" is more accurate. It would be embarassing to have to change a press release because one of the images turned out to be a copyvio.

Commons people like myself are happy to help with this checking. For example, if WMF wants some sample images on a topic, they could post to the mailing list commons-l and ask for some community advice, or else write an email to me and I can usually help. :)

cheers, pfctdayelise 13:38, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

Thank you for your feedback, Pfctdaylise. I'll modified relevant mediawiki files that site visitors can access to the original upload on Commons.
As you noted properly, it will be very embarassing if we find images used in the Press release or other publifications of the Wikimedia Foundation not reused safely. We'll make effort preventing such, and your offer of help is very grateful.
If you find something again, please freely leave a note or poke me by mail ;)

Cheers, --Aphaia 14:06, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

OK, I will. Thanks for your work, even though it was a little delayed. ;) --pfctdayelise 15:36, 12 December 2006 (UTC)


Thank you so much for your kind message :). --Mido 16:50, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

Re: Welcome backEdit

Thank you. I now have some time and hope to be active. -Romihaitza 15:24, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

Done what you-ve asked. --Romihaitza 12:29, 15 December 2006 (UTC)
Thanks! --Aphaia 12:53, 15 December 2006 (UTC)


I am translating the following phrase by phrase. I am not sure what it is talking about. "your addition of disclaimer to existent documents will be appreciated. Otherwise, after December 10, the translations in languages lacking of this disclaimer in their own, will have the English version until translation is done."

  • the English version = English version of what?
  • Otherwise is redundant
  • languages lacking of this disclaimer in their own - What does that mean?

--Hillgentleman|User Talk 07:59, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for your note. I'll try to write it again more creally. --Aphaia 08:06, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

It's correctEdit

The suggested words are correct. Albertsab@cawiki 19:07, 14 December 2006 (UTC)


先ほどは手続きとメッセージをありがとうございました。 財団ページの「User:DavidStrauss/寄付」のヘボ訳を に作りました。添削ならびにこの先の処理をお願いしていいですか?

一番下に「Template:OurProjects-JP」が赤リンクで残ってるのが気になります。また、国際郵便振替の説明は、一部、財団「寄付」の1月の版から転記してみましたが、それでよかったのかどうかも、チェックをお願いします。--Miya 08:51, 15 December 2006 (UTC)


Please revisit your action at Talk:Spam for the reasons I've stated there. Thanks. ChiDom 04:37, 16 December 2006 (UTC) (Wikipedia:User talk:Chidom)

Given the backlog at the page, I suspect this might be reviewed sometime during the 2nd quarter of 2007. It shouldn't be so difficult to unblock a site. I'd be interested to know what evidence you personally saw that led you to block the site, or if you just relied on the statements that were made by the other two users. If there's an actual link to information about harmful downloads, rather than a link to the top level of the help page, I'd be interested in seeing it. I haven't been able to find any evidence of the post that was mentioned.ChiDom 00:44, 17 December 2006 (UTC)
Sorry, but I am responsible for fundraising related translation as a chair of Transcom, and now occupied (I had no sleep in those 24 hours) and I trust more my fellow sysops than me in discretion, so from two reasons I would like one of them to review the issue. Thank you for your understanding. --Aphaia 00:56, 17 December 2006 (UTC)


  • Quote: Wikipedia is entering 2007 as one of the 10 most visited websites in the world.
  • Alphaia, This does not sound very good in Chinese (in my opinion). I would rather write the exact position. Which is it? (The eighth? The fourth? and what is the source?)--Hillgentleman|User Talk 10:58, 16 December 2006 (UTC)

2. Aphaia, How many proof-readers does an article need?--Hillgentleman|Talk 14:17, 16 December 2006 (UTC)

Hello, as for the first question, I asked its writers to confirm it. Hopefully you may get the answer in days.
As for proofreader, one person is okay in my opinion, if he or she is known a good writer. --Aphaia 14:33, 16 December 2006 (UTC)
I can find one or two major contributers in the classical Chinese wikipedia.--Hillgentleman|Talk 14:40, 16 December 2006 (UTC)
Opinions I got from the discussion above are:
  • Recently on we ranked top 10 twice (in three months average, we are at 12).
  • "within 10" should be fine. (since ranking is frequently changed, it is not fine to give an exact number there).
  • How about saying "top 10"? One of top 10 sites, etc.
I expect you find a neat expression with those suggestions. --Aphaia 01:02, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

Translation helpEdit

Hello, saw you in the RC and I think you could help me with this:

I'm on translating Fundraising FAQ/tr, but I don't know what to do with it after I'm done. As far as I get it, it will have "translated" status, and needs to be copyedited and updated(?) to be "finished" and be ready for publication. Yeah but how?

I can ask user:Vito Genovese and/or user:Dbl2010 and they may help me with copyediting, would that be sufficient? And what do we do next? I am a sysop in but am new in meta and this business.

Thanks in advance! -Tembelejderha 03:12, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

Hello, nice to see you even virtually, and thank you for your help. Your proposed way is indeed sufficient. What you are going to do at the next are 1) ask someone other to help review your version and if necessary, modify it and 2) rename the page in Turkish (using move feature of MediaWiki). And at last but not least, welcome to meta ;-)--Aphaia 03:18, 17 December 2006 (UTC)
OK. Yeah I am a newcomer, and I realize that there is lots of translation work here, and almost no content in turkish! :) Hope I can spare some time to do translations. Thanks again. -Tembelejderha 03:43, 17 December 2006 (UTC)
Hi Aphaia, The page is ready and needs to be published (Bağış SSS). ¡Saludos! -Tembelejderha 12:28, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

add aEdit

"Add a" , means "give the". I'm not sure if this is the best translation of the title, as I'm waiting for someone from the Hungarian community to copyedit it, because its in imperative form and the T-form of it (see en:T-V distinction), I think the T-form is consistent with other messages on huwiki, but as this is an "official" message maybe it should be in the V-form, any ideas? Also apart from the title it needs a copyediting, I'll try to contact someone on huwiki with greater experience in translation. --Dami 16:34, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

Thank you for your information.
T-V distinction is always a trouble for some languages. I think it depends on your culture; in my experience, a same content part of the Foundation official newsletter was translated into T-form in a certain language and into V-form in another language. I think it is the best for us to let you as Hungarians with a common sense decide the most preferable form for you. If V-form sounds too unfriendly for you, then let us use T-form. If T-form sounds too rude, then let us use V-form. For your information, while first names are used mostly on Wikimedia:Board of Trustees, Japanese version uses consistently surnames because Japanese prefer to address someone with their surname even in a casual situation. For your information, on Home equivalent, our vision statement and its translation is concerned with the same issue. German, French and Chinese render V-form, on the other hand Italian T-form. Again, it is up to you; we trust your discernment. --Aphaia 16:48, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

fundraising pageEdit

Hi. Could you please delete Translation request/WMF/Fundraising/2006/hu, as there is already a page at Wikimedia:Gyűjtőkampány, that should be updated. --Dami 16:49, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

Yes, I'll care for your request. And the Foundation wiki version is outdated and therefore reqested for updated. However do you have an account there? Otherwise we are better now to prepare the new version here on meta and then replace it with the current one? --Aphaia 16:53, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

I don't have an account there, once a requested a small change on the page through the Site feedback feature, but the request somehow swept itself under the carpet (if there is such an expression in English..:)).

I think the new page could be made comparatively quickly be reusing the text of the original and ordering it into the new and improved layout. --Dami 16:58, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

Maybe I can just copy the already done parts to Translation request/WMF/Fundraising/2006/hu, but most of the text is in templates, currently linked red so I will have to figure out, where are the originals, that can be translated...--Dami 17:07, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

I translated/updated the fundraiser page.. Maybe it would be wise if the template used is copied to Meta, so the translators can see what the pge will look like (so they can trim too long messages and similar edits..). Regards, --Dami 17:27, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

Hi. Is it possible to have the donation input box and the text "one time donation of..." switched in the Hungarian version? Also, is the "National Belgian account number:" necessary? If yes I will revise the explanation message so the columns don't look this bad...

I have translated the ourprojects template, but it keeps disapperaing :), but its in the source of I have used the names and descriptions of the similar template at the Main Page of huwiki (hu:Kezdőlap)--Dami 18:34, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

Dami, would you please talkwith Daniel Mayer? I forwarded your questions to his talk. I'll upload your project list to the website. --Aphaia 20:43, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

Hi! I think the Fundraiser page in Hungarian is almost ready, User:Alensha has copyedited it, so if its urgent you can publish it (after making the different brown columns have the same height...) and removing the Template:Fundraising menu which isn't translated yet. I'll try to get to that in the evening at the earliest.Regards, Bence

ps: I have requested an account on the Wikimedia wiki, so I could insert the template myself, when I'm done with that. --Dami 14:41, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

Hi. Could you help me please, I have lost the link to the fundraising menu template.. so I can't translate it. :( --Dami 15:59, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

Don't worry, you mean Wikimedia:Template:Fundraising menu & Wikimedia:Template:Fundraising menu-hu.. so please create Template:Fundraisin menu-hu, then let me know when you finish. Cheers, Aphaia 16:25, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

Another fundraiser-request.Edit

Hi. I've finished translating Translation request/WMF/Fundraising/2006/da, but I can't publish it. How do I do that (or who should I contact)? I understand it's urgent. --Lhademmor 10:05, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

Oops, my bad. Site renamed. --Lhademmor 10:13, 18 December 2006 (UTC)
What two templates do you refer to on my userpage? --Lhademmor 10:23, 18 December 2006 (UTC)
Something is wrong. When I click the link to the place I could do the translations for the OurProjects-template, I end up creating Translations/constructor/da. Please help because something is obviously wrong. What am i supposed to translate? --Lhademmor 14:35, 18 December 2006 (UTC)
Thanks for your report, I think we can fix it now ... please give a look to Translation requests/WMF/OurProjects2006/da. Aphaia 14:49, 18 December 2006 (UTC)
Eh... One more problem actually. I've translated this page now, but I dunno what I should rename it to? OurProjects2006 would translate to VoresProjekter2006. Is that what I should rename it to? Or just OurProjects2006-da? --Lhademmor 16:57, 18 December 2006 (UTC)
Yes, Template:OurProjects2006-da. --Aphaia 17:30, 18 December 2006 (UTC)
In that case it is done. Wikinews and Wikiversity doesn't exist in Danish so they point to the English ones --Lhademmor 17:49, 18 December 2006 (UTC)
Oops, my bad about the header - I guess I'm too sleepy. It's fixed now. --Lhademmor 18:15, 18 December 2006 (UTC)
Perhaps we two. I didn't notice it on meta either ... please give a look to Wikimedia:Indsamling later. Good sleep! Aphaia 18:19, 18 December 2006 (UTC)
Before that, maybe you could publish this whereever it needs to be published? It's the Danish translation of the C.O.R.E. stuff. --Lhademmor 18:27, 18 December 2006 (UTC)
I'm afraid I cannot offer help about that. It seems to need a developer hand. However I'll try to have them care for your request. Thanks. --Aphaia 18:41, 18 December 2006 (UTC)


Revertされましたが、どうしましょう。私もどっちがいいのかわからないのです。-- 10:20, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

End of voteEdit

Should we wait more than 1 year so that we could finally close the vote procedure?? Usually the procedure is much quicker, see other examples. I need exactly to know how many years should we wait just to close the vote procedure. Thank you. --Nicolae 13:58, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

Re:TR statusEdit

Sorry, I'have mixed up the images like   with the work in progress of making a translation. Thanks for your warning. 555 17:36, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

That I assumed. ;) Thanks for understanding. --Aphaia 17:41, 18 December 2006 (UTC)
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