—Giggy 09:49, 19 August 2008 (UTC)
Logo vote edit
Could you please revert your edit to the voting page? We're not trying to hide the first vote, I think everyone involved knows about it. The thing is, the voting page has 13 different translations that would need updating if the English voting page is changed. Besides for that, the text "This vote" is simply incorrect, the new vote is not the same vote. --Yair rand 02:10, 3 January 2010 (UTC)
- As we have broadcast this to all Wiktionarians, it is nearly impossible that every user is fully abreast on this information (e.g., i was not aware in the first round). I have just fixed German and I am working my way through. Warmest Regards, :)--thecurran Speak your mind my past 02:15, 3 January 2010 (UTC)
- You understand all of those languages? And please correct the usage of the word "this", it's simply incorrect. --Yair rand
- It was a vote on our logo just like this one. Warmest Regards, :)--thecurran Speak your mind my past 02:20, 3 January 2010 (UTC)
- Yes, but it is not the same vote. Therefor, the word "This" is incorrect. --Yair rand 02:21, 3 January 2010 (UTC)
- Please explain your actions. I do not see de or es on your babel, the word "This" is still incorrect, there was no consensus for these edits, and the de translation has no link at all. Again, please revert. --Yair rand 02:40, 3 January 2010 (UTC)
- There was not a global vote to destroy the first vote either. It was a minority impoosing themselves on the rest. I'm just trying to make the best out of a poor situation, playing by the same loose rules you used. 02:47, 3 January 2010 (UTC)
- The first vote was not destroyed, it was not a minority suggesting the new vote, nobody is being imposed upon, and the current vote was started by consensus. I strongly believe that you generated those translations from Google translate or a similar service, which is ordinarily not done because they are often inaccurate, as your changes prove. There was no consensus for your edits and they may constitute as vandalism. Again, please revert your edits. --Yair rand 02:56, 3 January 2010 (UTC)
i created my accounts in each of those languages separately and only merged them when the SUL unified login started. How Spartan i keep my pages though is not your concern. Warmest Regards, :)--thecurran Speak your mind my past 02:49, 3 January 2010 (UTC)
Last year alone, off the top of my head, i can remember oral conversations i had in Arabic, Bokmål, Cantonese, Dinka, Dutch, English, French, Finnish, German, Greek, Hebrew, Indonesian, Italian, Japanese, Korean, Malay, Mandarin, Noongar, Polish, Portuguese, Russian, Ukrainian, and Vietnamese. i confess i did not speak Nynorsk or Esperanto last year. Try reading about my current hero, Raphael Lemkin. Besides, U should have added this vital information in in the first place. i'm just trying to repair your negligence but i w:WP:Assume good faith that such a gross mistake was not wilful. Warmest Regards, :)--thecurran Speak your mind my past 03:13, 3 January 2010 (UTC)
- I am very sorry about making the mistake of assuming you were using automatic translating software. I assumed so mainly because of the </ big> tags, which can sometimes be caused by automatic translators. Could you please correct the statement that they are the same vote? --Yair rand 03:21, 3 January 2010 (UTC)
Thank U for your response. There is no need to apologize. U are politely arguing your point just as i am trying to. i apologize if i have offended U. Please excuse me while i deposit what i was writing at the same time.
The rest of Wiktionary wasn't notified that that "consensus" was taking place. Someone alerted some select like-minded individuals that the vote to vote was occurring and they received a ridiculously high support of 91% (71/78 in the first two options, cf. Wiktionary/logo/refresh#Yes, we should propose options for, vote on, and adopt a new logo!) and it excluded users of the half of Wiktionary that still abided by the first vote. Such a result is untenable in a fair democracy. The over 90% realm lies squarely in the domain of rigged elections. Warmest Regards, :)--thecurran Speak your mind my past 03:28, 3 January 2010 (UTC)
- Would U accept that this is a similar vote instead of the same vote? Warmest Regards, :)--thecurran Speak your mind my past 03:31, 3 January 2010 (UTC)
- To the best of my knowledge, all of the Wiktionaries were notified in their various discussion rooms of the ongoing logo discussion back in May when the discussion started. I think "A previous vote" would be better wording, but I would much prefer if consensus could be reached on the logo vote discussion page on what to put, if anything, about the 2006 vote. --Yair rand 03:41, 3 January 2010 (UTC)
Putting up a notice once in a few discussion rooms is simply insufficient. According to Wiktionary/logo/refresh#Notification not even 26 of them were notified in the first place. Besides presuming certain editor habits, the method above immediately fails the RTFM & TLDR test anyway. The >90% acceptance figure is consistent with such a failure.
i propose this text:
- The previous vote for the Wiktionary logo resulted in the tile logo on 2006-11-01T23:10:19. The Latin alphabet variant of the tile logo is on the below right. ar, co, el, et, fa, fr, it, ko, li, lt, ms, nl, oc, scn, simple, sq, sv, tr, uk, vi, wo, yi, and zh still use the tile logo. kl is trying it. A user saw a problem on English Wiktionary, so he created the new vote.
Using unambiguous terms, consistent adverb-adjective-noun order, appropriate parentheticals, simple conjunctions, and simple prepositional phrases, as well as breaking complex sentences into consistent subject-verb-object ordered simple sentences or clauses and reducing pronouns simplifies semantic logic and speeds translation. This should sound semi-natural and understandable in all languages. By the way, our "current logo discussion" box is not translated at all and we have completely skipped the Arabic Sprachraum, even though it is one of the six official UN languages. Warmest Regards, :)--thecurran Speak your mind my past 05:02, 3 January 2010 (UTC)
- User:Bastique did not start the vote itself, he simply started the discussion that led to the vote, asking project participants to decide whether to take the tile logo, use the text logo, or start a new vote. Once it became clear that the majority wanted a new vote, User:Conrad.Irwin built a logo proposals page. After the logo proposals were finished, Epson291 started the voting page, which was then changed a few times by various users before consensus was reached. At that point, a request for translations was put up by me, translations were added by various users, and the vote was started. I don't think saying that Bastique did the whole thing is appropriate, it was built by quite a few people. Could we continue this discussion on Talk:Wiktionary/logo/refresh/voting? --Yair rand 05:20, 3 January 2010 (UTC)
Thank U for your response. Please excuse me while i attach what i was writing simultaneously.
There is not enough time to reach consensus on how to fix your omissions before the vote ends and U know that. In http://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wiktionary/logo/refresh&oldid=1437158 , only a week without notification was given to provide consensus on whether action should be taken. Then, after a quick blurb in a few discussion rooms, users who happened to catch the blurb were invited to choose which logos should go back in the draw. It was when the first round actually started that a banner was finally put up to attract some attention. The tile logo won by a small margin, when users that log on only monthly finally got a sniff of what was going on in the tail-end. Now, those people have to put up with the two winners left for them and an untranslated "current logo discussion" box that leads to a completely English and poorly-linked trail of what has transpired. It is incorrigible that we do not at least provide a rudimentary version of the salient details in their language. Warmest Regards, :)--thecurran Speak your mind my past 05:24, 3 January 2010 (UTC)
- U have pointed out how hard it is follow what has occurred out of the view of most of the public. I will cheerfully withdraw references to Bastique and I will refer to this conversation on the talk page where it should have been anyway. Warmest Regards, :)--thecurran Speak your mind my past 05:30, 3 January 2010 (UTC)
- Actually, a sitenotice has been up on the English Wiktionary since March. And the tile logo didn't win the first round, the book logo won 289 votes to the tile's 253 (full stats here). The reason the voting page did not contain the background information was due to translation difficulties; new translations of the voting page were coming in extremely slowly. It is certainly extremely difficult to make it simple to follow exactly what has happened over a process this long or containing this many people. The decision on what to put on the voting page should be made quickly but there is still four weeks until the vote ends, so there still is the possibility of reaching consensus. --Yair rand 05:55, 3 January 2010 (UTC)
U're right; the book logo won. i read it incorrectly because the graph had numbers but not a graphic legend; my mistake. As the infrequent users (the vast majority) still haven't been informed there was a previous vote, they do not have time to see our consensus addition. The talk page is still entirely in English. The best way to deal with this is to quickly translate a message on to the page for those for who have yet to vote and then to contact those who have. On the individual language pages, those frequent users can reach consensus on how it looks. Why are U back here when U agreed to move discussion back to the talk page? Warmest Regards, :)--thecurran Speak your mind my past 06:07, 3 January 2010 (UTC)
I speak and do not understand English well. I have not understood, what they have written here. I would like to translate this page in Georgian ... Whom did I do something bad, then they forgive me. Dato deutschland 09:32, 12 January 2010 (UTC)
Sorry, I don't speak Italian! =) I understood your message, though.
You're welcome, it's always a pleasure helping others! GTNS 20:20, 16 January 2010 (UTC)
- Hello thecurran. Sort keys are based on the first character, rather than a numerical value. Your suggestion would sort them correctly, but list every user under "-".
- The category explanation is already translated into the language for that category. —Pathoschild 19:22:06, 04 March 2010 (UTC)