Category talk:Global policies
Latest comment: 5 years ago by WhatamIdoing in topic Policies and guidelines
Policies and guidelines
editThis category is for Wikimedia projects wide policies, i.e. projects which apply to each and every Wikimedia project. Policies enforce required practice (as differentiated from guidelines, which document and explain best current practice).
Does this mean that all policies that are part of this category, including Founding principles, are NOT optional and thus can't be rejected by some Wikimedia project by majority vote? - Frhdkazan (talk) 16:16, 17 October 2013 (UTC)
- I just noticed this text, which was added by User:Kaganer.
- I'm not sure how you "enforce required practice" for values or for Ignore all rules. Maybe that's how some wikis work? (It's not how the English Wikipedia works.) WhatamIdoing (talk) 03:01, 21 October 2019 (UTC)
- @WhatamIdoing: Values is not part of Rules or Policies. Ignore all rules is some specifical text (I'm not sure that he should be here at all). Before 05.03.2013 this text was included in Category:Policies, but not in Category:Global policies. Change that a noted by you was maked at the 06.03.2013, but I probably did not notice this moving. And I also think that I did not invent this phrase myself, but copied this text from somewhere else. You may well propose a better annotation. In my opinion, the purpose of this text was to emphasize the difference between Policies (understood as "rules") and guidelines. However, I know that the "Policies" (with their wide understooding as "principles") are not equivalent to the "rules" - but this thin difference IMHO not for this place.--Kaganer (talk) 17:55, 21 October 2019 (UTC)
- User:Kaganer, there are links in this category to:
- Founding principles
- Fundraising principles
- Ignore all rules (an actual policy)
- Wikipedia policies (a descriptive page that is mostly links to Wikipedias)
- None of these are enforceable as a required practice. I'll go change the text. WhatamIdoing (talk) 19:40, 21 October 2019 (UTC)
- @WhatamIdoing:, new text is not completely clear to me. In any cases, this caption shoild be sinchronized with the Category:Policies and Category:Guidelines. Please check these. --Kaganer (talk) 23:53, 22 October 2019 (UTC)
- User:Kaganer, there are links in this category to:
- In my opinion, the Founding principles are not negociable in Wikimedia wikis that must accept them also as principles used then to found the policies under good bases. Without them, all wikis would turn rapidly to be proprietary and anticollaborative, the policies would then be developed unfairly and then enforced rapidly to create such de facto situation.
- Principles are essential bases of all policies, they exist also in national and international legislations with principles and charters that are used as negociation bases to write constitutions or treaties before they are adopted. Rules and law without founding principles are just dictatorial orders or proprietary claims, they can't be fair and if they ever exist they will tend to reinforce themselves to incredible levels (as "prince's facts", without limitation and in any direction, even contradictive ones, with no one able to correct them and no way to interpret any possible contradiction or conflicts of interests). verdy_p (talk) 09:54, 22 October 2019 (UTC)
- There is terminological ambiguation (in some languages), and this is lead to misunderstooding and translation difficulties. See my reply above. Some policies is formulated as rules, with a directive-imperative style. Other policies formulated as declarations of some principles. In English all these may be united under common termn "policies". In Russian no single term for this collection of texts. --Kaganer (talk) 23:45, 22 October 2019 (UTC)
- I think the main problem with applying the original text to principles is that you can't "enforce" a principle. It's okay to have all these pages collected together (and mw:Naming things is hard, so we probably won't find the perfect name for that collection). It just doesn't make sense to say that I'm going to "force" anyone to uphold a principle or be able to "require" them to "practice" that principle. So I have removed the "force" and "require" language from the description. WhatamIdoing (talk) 15:55, 23 October 2019 (UTC)
- There is terminological ambiguation (in some languages), and this is lead to misunderstooding and translation difficulties. See my reply above. Some policies is formulated as rules, with a directive-imperative style. Other policies formulated as declarations of some principles. In English all these may be united under common termn "policies". In Russian no single term for this collection of texts. --Kaganer (talk) 23:45, 22 October 2019 (UTC)
- @WhatamIdoing: Values is not part of Rules or Policies. Ignore all rules is some specifical text (I'm not sure that he should be here at all). Before 05.03.2013 this text was included in Category:Policies, but not in Category:Global policies. Change that a noted by you was maked at the 06.03.2013, but I probably did not notice this moving. And I also think that I did not invent this phrase myself, but copied this text from somewhere else. You may well propose a better annotation. In my opinion, the purpose of this text was to emphasize the difference between Policies (understood as "rules") and guidelines. However, I know that the "Policies" (with their wide understooding as "principles") are not equivalent to the "rules" - but this thin difference IMHO not for this place.--Kaganer (talk) 17:55, 21 October 2019 (UTC)