Wikimedia Northern Europe Forum

Wikimedia Northern Europe

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The Wikimedia Northern Europe Forum is meant as a place to discuss Wikimedia activites in Northern Europe. The forum was set up after the first Northern European Meeting and can be used for general chat, announcements, tech issues, finding people to work with from other NE countries, and anything else related to the Northern European region. Discussion also takes place on the Wikimedia Northern Europe mailing list and some crossposting might occur.

The forum is watchlisted by members of the various local communities, but if you need to contact someone specific or locate an existing initiative, try looking at the repository for contact information or swing by the workspace to see if there are any existing projects you can help out with.

Abbreviation for Wikimedia Northern Europe

Hi all! As agreed in the meeting, I'm starting this thread to determine what should be the official abbreviation of our grouping. Several alternatives were proposed during the meeting, but no agreement was made, so we decided to put it up for discussion/voting here instead. The proposed option WMNE can not be used, as it should be reserved for Wikimedia Nepal, following the convention of WM + country code. Some other input from the discussion was that we should probably not use "WM" in the abbreviation because that usually refers to Wikimedia affiliates – however, it is also used by WMCEE without any problems, so we shouldn't rule it out either.

Anyways, I propose that we allow 2 weeks (so until 30 October) for proposals, and then we can hold a vote for one week until 6 November to get the final result. Any objections? Jon Harald Søby (WMNO) (talk) 12:26, 16 October 2018 (UTC)

Alternatives

(proposed during meeting)

• WMNE (should be reserved for Wikimedia Nepal; proposed during meeting)
• WikiNE (Wikimedia Northern Europe; proposed during meeting)
• WikiNEU (Wikimedia Northern Europe; proposed during meeting)
• WMNEU (Wikimedia Northern Europe; WM variant of above)
• WikiNEB (Wikimedia Northern Europe and Baltics; proposed during meeting)
• WMNEB (Wikimedia Northern Europe and Baltics; WM variant of above)
• NEW (Northern European Wikimedia; proposed during meeting)

(proposed afterwards)

• WikiNor (Wikimedia Northern Europe; proposed by Jon Harald)
• WikiNEUR (Wikimedia Northern Europe; proposed by Matthias)
• WMNEUR (Wikimedia Northern Europe; WM variant of above)
• WikiNordic (proposed by Kruusamägi)
• WikiNB8 (proposed by fnielsen)

Discussion

Please use this section for general discussion. Jon Harald Søby (WMNO) (talk) 12:26, 16 October 2018 (UTC)

I'm assuming WikiNE was dropped for the same reason as WMNE? I'm partial to WikiNEU, but I could also see WikiNEUR working. Looking forward to hearing other people's opinions on this. InsaneHacker (talk) 13:06, 16 October 2018 (UTC) (Matthias)

Not really, I just forgot to add it. WikiNE is different enough to avoid any Nepal confusion I think. But in general I think all Wiki* and WM* suggestions warrant inclusions separately, so I'll add them too. It was said during the meeting that WM* should be reserved for chapters, but I don't really agree with that myself. Jon Harald Søby (WMNO) (talk) 13:41, 16 October 2018 (UTC)

I also do not see a problem with using Wikimedia name while not being a chapter. It is a Wikimedia cooperation in the region, just like Wikimedia Central and Eastern Europe. Will it ever be used outside Wikimedia circles? --Papuass (talk) 13:54, 16 October 2018 (UTC)

Considering the WMCEE example, I wouldn't mind WMNEU or WMNEUR either. I don't think it's that confusing to use Wiki as an abbreviation for Wikimedia, but like Heikki mentioned, "Wiki" already has a more established, generic meaning, so WM is probably the way to go. InsaneHacker (talk) 14:54, 16 October 2018 (UTC)

agree. better WMNEU - just because shorter. --Biafra (talk) 15:37, 16 October 2018 (UTC)

I sort of prefer "Wiki-" over "WM-" because it suggests the fun of a Wikimania (which I have never attended!) as opposed to the more formal WMCON. Nothing negative about WMCON. "Wiki-" just sounds a bit less formal. I do not see any problems with using "WM-" with a group that is not a chapter. -NEU and -NEUR are both OK. I think of the German word for "new" when I see "NEU", so NEUR seems better. "Neur" is a French word for coach, but hey, that is not so bad. :) The key is keeping things short, yet quickly understood. --Twdk (talk) 21:45, 16 October 2018 (UTC)

I prefer WikiNor. I agree with Twdk that "Wiki" is less normal, and it also is easier to pronounce. The "Nor" makes it more understandable for the world around us that this is related to Northern Europe. --Jorid Martinsen (WMNO) (talk) 08:17, 17 October 2018 (UTC)

Wikinorbal? Norbal is used here. — Finn Årup Nielsen (fnielsen) (talk) 22:41, 18 October 2018 (UTC)

I like the inclusiveness of NorBal! /Sofie Sigrinn (talk) 07:57, 19 October 2018 (UTC)

As I mentioned during the conference: I see no reason why not to just use +Nordic as addition to Wikimedia. Kruusamägi (talk) 22:54, 19 October 2018 (UTC)

Please not Nordic. You are excluding some countries, also yourself. --Edgars2007 (talk) 20:56, 22 October 2018 (UTC)

@Edgars2007: I personally consider Estonia a Nortic country (like Estonians generally do). So this term is very inclusive. Kruusamägi (talk) 15:41, 26 October 2018 (UTC)

┌─────────────┘
Trying to summarize what abbreviations have been suggested in the discussion in order to shorten the list. I haven't included ones that I suggested that were not commented on.

• Using the Wiki-prefix
  • WikiNEU - Suggested by myself, Karen prefers WikiNEUR
  • WikiNEUR - Suggested by myself, endorsed by Karen
  • WikiNor - Suggested by Jorid
  • WikiNorbal or NorBal - Suggested by Finn, endorsed by Sofie
  • WikiNordic - Ivo suggested the -Nordic suffix but didn't specify a preference for Wiki or WM. Edgars objected.
• Using the WM-prefix
  • WMNEU - Suggested by myself, endorsed by Biafra
  • WMNordic - See WikiNordic above.

I'm still partial to -NEU or -NEUR with a small bent towards the WM- suffix, but I wouldn't mind using the Wiki-prefix for the reasons Karen mentioned above. If we go in the direction of -NEUR, I'd recommend spelling it -NEur.

I don't know about -Nor as it could leave ambiguity about whether we're talking about the Nordic countries only, same rationale with -Nordic. If we do go in the -Nor-direction I'd suggest adding an E to the end to clarify that it's Northern Europe.

With regards to both -Nordic and -Norbal I feel like the acronym should reflect the full name, and so far we've just called ourselves Wikimedia Northern Europe, not Nordic, Nordic Countries and the Baltics or something else that would result in those abbreviations.

Thoughts? InsaneHacker (talk) 15:03, 26 October 2018 (UTC)

i'm something disappointed not to see Kulttuurinavigaattori point of view here. he was the initiator. --Biafra (talk) 15:52, 26 October 2018 (UTC)

I understood the initation of this discussion during WikiNEM as being about the need for deciding on one name, not that there was one preferrred over another by the initiator. @InsaneHacker: Thank you for making this summary. --Sara Mörtsell (WMSE) (talk) 09:43, 31 October 2018 (UTC)

There is something called NB8, see [1]. — Finn Årup Nielsen (fnielsen) (talk) 19:58, 16 January 2019 (UTC)

Vote

I forgot about this, so this is a "little" bit later than I said, but I think we should move to a vote. I say we can both  Support and  Oppose abbrevations, and the one that wins is the one with the highest number of support minus oppose votes. I will send out an email to the list about this vote as well. I have included the ones from Matthias' summary above. If you feel that you have another suggestion that should be voted on, please add it to the list. Jon Harald Søby (WMNO) (talk) 13:19, 2 January 2019 (UTC)

WikiNEU (Wikimedia Northern Europe)

•  Support - Works for me as well. InsaneHacker (talk) 16:02, 6 January 2019 (UTC)
•  Support--Astrid Carlsen (WMNO) (talk) 09:39, 7 January 2019 (UTC)
•  Support Jon Harald Søby (WMNO) (talk) 11:02, 7 January 2019 (UTC)
•  Support --Lentokonefani (talk) 14:06, 29 January 2019 (UTC)
•  Support --Papuass (talk) 12:30, 30 January 2019 (UTC)

WikiNEUR (Wikimedia Northern Europe)

• Neutral - I don't have anything against this abbreviation/name per se, but I think it'd look better spelled WikiNEur. InsaneHacker (talk) 16:02, 6 January 2019 (UTC)

WikiNor (Wikimedia Northern Europe)

•  Support --Astrid Carlsen (WMNO) (talk) 09:40, 7 January 2019 (UTC)
•  Support Jon Harald Søby (WMNO) (talk) 11:02, 7 January 2019 (UTC)
•  Support Sofie Sigrinn (talk) 12:33, 10 January 2019 (UTC)
•  Support --Jorid Martinsen (WMNO) (talk) 12:47, 10 January 2019 (UTC)
•  Support Yupik (talk) 07:09, 25 January 2019 (UTC)
•  Support --Papuass (talk) 12:30, 30 January 2019 (UTC)

WikiNorBal (Wikimedia Nordic and Baltics)

•  Oppose --Biafra (talk) 14:03, 9 January 2019 (UTC)
• Comment This should have been "Nordic and Baltic" as per Finn's source. Northern Europe includes the Baltics so with that definition this name does not work. /Sofie Sigrinn (talk) 12:26, 10 January 2019 (UTC)
  • @Sofie Sigrinn: Thanks, I must have missed that. Changed the heading now. Jon Harald Søby (WMNO) (talk) 13:53, 10 January 2019 (UTC)
•  Oppose --Papuass (talk) 12:30, 30 January 2019 (UTC)

WikiNordic

•  Support --Astrid Carlsen (WMNO) (talk) 09:39, 7 January 2019 (UTC)
•  Support Kruusamägi (talk) 11:56, 7 January 2019 (UTC)
•  Oppose --Biafra (talk) 14:03, 9 January 2019 (UTC)
•  Oppose Sofie Sigrinn (talk) 12:33, 10 January 2019 (UTC)
•  Oppose Yupik (talk) 07:09, 25 January 2019 (UTC)
•  Oppose In most cases Latvia, Lithuania is not considered Nordic. --Papuass (talk) 12:30, 30 January 2019 (UTC)

WMNEU (Wikimedia Northern Europe)

•  Support - My preferred. InsaneHacker (talk) 16:02, 6 January 2019 (UTC)
•  Support Jon Harald Søby (WMNO) (talk) 11:02, 7 January 2019 (UTC)
•  Support --Biafra (talk) 14:03, 9 January 2019 (UTC)
•  Support --Lentokonefani (talk) 14:06, 29 January 2019 (UTC)
•  Support --Kulttuurinavigaattori (talk) 19:29, 29 January 2019 (UTC)
•  Support --Papuass (talk) 12:30, 30 January 2019 (UTC)

WMNordic

•  Oppose --Biafra (talk) 14:03, 9 January 2019 (UTC)
•  Oppose Sofie Sigrinn (talk) 12:33, 10 January 2019 (UTC)
•  Oppose Yupik (talk) 07:09, 25 January 2019 (UTC)
•  Oppose In most cases Latvia, Lithuania is not considered Nordic. --Papuass (talk) 12:30, 30 January 2019 (UTC)

Tentative conclusion

It appears that there's a "tie" between WikiNEU and WMNEU. Considering that the discussion hasn't been that active since January, I propose that we attempt to make a final decision at the next meeting in October. If nobody objects to this, I'll close the discussion at some point. InsaneHacker (talk) 15:05, 24 August 2019 (UTC)

Forum

We have Wikimedia Northern Europe Forum (in construction currently), set up by user:InsaneHacker, for communication. My proposal at meeting was to use Flow, not the old style. One of the benefits are notifications on new topics, which is important because this isn't home wiki for all of us and we may miss something from watchlist. Of course, Flow has some issues (as everything has). Objections (to use Flow)? --Edgars2007 (talk) 21:02, 22 October 2018 (UTC)

Thank you Edgars, I couldn't remember whether we only wanted to use Flow (Or structured discussion as it is now known) for a tech forum or in general. I don't have any objections, just need to file the request. Also, whenever the Forum is set up, I plan on redirecting the various Wikimedia NE talk pages to the forum for convenience. InsaneHacker (talk) 13:13, 23 October 2018 (UTC)

My idea was to use it for general forum (which at first will also be for tech-related things). --Edgars2007 (talk) 13:26, 23 October 2018 (UTC)

It appears we have a problem: Flow/Structured discussions has been disabled on Meta, seemingly with no way to enable it on singular page. InsaneHacker (talk) 13:08, 26 October 2018 (UTC)

OK then, then will have to go with old style. --Edgars2007 (talk) 05:12, 28 October 2018 (UTC)

Wikimania 2019 lunch meetup minutes now up

Some of the Northern European Wikimedians at Wikimania 2019 met during lunch to discuss the coming meeting in Estonia, as well as ancillary topics. I took minutes for the people who weren't able to be there or just want a refresher. See Wikimedia Northern Europe/Workspace/Wikimania 2019 meetup minutes. InsaneHacker (talk) 15:00, 24 August 2019 (UTC)