Talk:List of Wikipedias

Please see the following archives for older discussion.

• Archive 1 (2004-08-08 to 2006-03-21) — earliest discussion, before script-based updates (35K)
• Archive 2 (2006-02-10 to 2006-06-14) — mostly about the switch to script-based updating of the "All Wikipedias" table (52K)
• Archive 3 (2006-06-06 to 2006-09-01) — miscellaneous fixes to table formatting, vandalism reports, etc. (26K)
• Archive 4 (2006-09-12 to 2007-08-04) — debates over language inclusion, automatic updates, depth calculations, etc. (72K)
• Archive 5 (2007-08-20 to 2007-12-31) — (69K)
• Archive 6 (2008-01-13 to 2008-12-23) — (54K)
• Archive 7 (2009-12-06 to 2011-05-02) — (39K)
• Archive 8 (2011-06-06 to 2015-10-07) — (90K)
• Archive 9 (2015-10-08 to 2022-04-17) — (62K)

Talk:List of Wikipedias/Table now redirects to here. The following archive contains all the past discussion from that page.

• Table/Archive (2008-01-03 to 2022-05-28) — (21K)

This page in other languages

It would be better if, when you read this page in another language, the languages in the first column of the tables were written in that language, instead of English. So, in French, instead of "English, Spanish, German", the table should read "Anglais, Espagnol, Allemand". Lights and freedom (talk) 20:35, 19 May 2022 (UTC)

@Lights and freedom and Emaus: This might be more trouble to implement than it's worth. Emaus is the one whose bot generates the table that is used on all the pages you are referring to. Thay all transclude the same List of Wikipedias/Table (which, for some reason, has its own talk page, BTW). - dcljr (talk) 18:30, 26 May 2022 (UTC)

In case of ready-made functionality for automatic translation I can update the page content filling. But a consensus for this should be first. --Emaus (talk) 21:35, 30 May 2022 (UTC)

Propose redirecting Talk:List of Wikipedias/Table to here

I believe Talk:List of Wikipedias/Table should be redirected to here, since the regular bot updates to the corresponding content page (List of Wikipedias/Table, I mean) makes it difficult to "watch" that talk page. The infrequent edits to this content page (List of Wikipedias) makes it far more likely that comments here will be noticed by more people (note that 981 users are watching this talk page, while only 146 are watching the other one). Besides, most requests left here are about changing the table, anyway, so there might as well be only one talk page collecting such requests, not two. Comments? Objections? (In particular, Emaus, what do you think, since you are the primary "audience" for comments left on that other talk page?) - dcljr (talk) 00:53, 28 May 2022 (UTC)

• As I see, there is no difference between a topics on these pages so the redirecting makes sense. --Emaus (talk) 21:26, 30 May 2022 (UTC)
  • OK, well, unless there are any objections, I plan to do this in the next few days. I'll just archive the content currently at Talk:List of Wikipedias/Table, add links to the archives of that page to the top of this one, and redirect that title to here. - dcljr (talk) 00:20, 18 June 2022 (UTC)
    • Done. As indicated at the top of this page, there is now a single archive of all the past discussion from Talk:List of Wikipedias/Table, replacing the yearly-archive system that had been started. There just wasn't enough content to justify separate yearly pages, IMO. - dcljr (talk) 05:36, 23 June 2022 (UTC)

Subpages for different languages

I just noticed Talk:List of Wikipedias/Table/he and Talk:List of Wikipedias/Table/vi. These are talk pages for language-specific subpages of "List of Wikipedias/Table". Now that Talk:List of Wikipedias/Table redirects to here, should the various language-specific talk pages (whether they currently exist or not) also be redirected to here? @Emaus? - dcljr (talk) 00:53, 3 July 2022 (UTC)

Sorting orders

Sort ascending and descending I understand. What is sort initial? 118.92.65.231 03:31, 3 September 2022 (UTC)

Number of articles. --Emaus (talk) 20:51, 4 September 2022 (UTC)

The term "sort initial" refers to the order of the table rows in the source wikitext (the order you see when you first visit the page). - dcljr (talk) 22:36, 4 September 2022 (UTC)

Convert to template-based approach

Since EmausBot is no longer working and Emaus is also MIA, I have converted the tables here to a template-based approach based on the post Talk:List of Wikipedias/Archive 9#Auto table creation by GreenC. It had to be one big table, not broken up by powers of ten, because of how the template(s) work. I kept the separate "Totals" table at the bottom, but removed the level-three section header because it was causing bad section nesting on the page. There doesn't appear to be a simple way of implementing the "Depth" column, but someone else might be able to wrangle that into place if they work at it (e.g., using {{#expr:}} or some such). I have taken the liberty of changing some column names and link targets from what they used to be — namely, using "All pages" for the "Total" column, linked to "Special:AllPages"; linking to "Special:RecentChanges" in the "Edits" column; and linking to "Special:NewFiles" instead of "Special:FileList" in the "Files" column. These can discussed and changed if people have other ideas. The data this is based on is updated four times a day (at somewhat arbitrary times — that can be taken up with GreenC). I don't think it's possible to show the date/time of last update above the table, like the bot used to do, so I just provided a link to that information. Finally, I could only include active (open) wikis in the table, since trying to use "languages" or "closed" didn't work as described in GreenC's post. I'm still working on converting the other tables (Wiktionaries, etc.) in a similar manner. They should be up relatively soon. - dcljr (talk) 02:32, 25 October 2022 (UTC)

Oh, and I have not tried to implement the "Language (local)" column. - dcljr (talk) 03:24, 25 October 2022 (UTC)

Is the "Language (local)" column in the works? I use it several times a week. Sdiabhon Sdiamhon (talk) 12:11, 25 October 2022 (UTC)

Now is done. Ency (talk) 13:04, 1 November 2022 (UTC)

You changed the subpage List of Wikipedias/Table (thanks for that), but not the table on the main page List of Wikipedias (which I just changed in the same way). The subpage is no longer being transcluded into the main "List of Wikipedias" page because doing that would (AFAIK) make it more likely for the stats to be out of date when someone looks at the "List of Wikipedias" page. (It should only take a page reload to update the stats the way it's being done now, whereas it might sometimes take a page purge to update them if the subpage were being transcluded. In any case, I've mentioned the possibility of needing to purge the page in the italicized note above the table.) Assuming the remaining transclusions can be dealt with similarly, it would make sense to just redirect List of Wikipedias/Table to List of Wikipedias#All Wikipedias ordered by number of articles. At some point, I'll make a proposal along those lines in a separate section here (on this talk page). - dcljr (talk) 04:30, 2 November 2022 (UTC)

OK, I see that using "active" to list only the active (open) wikis is not actually working as advertised (as seen at Wiktionary/Table, for example). It lists closed wikis if those are larger than some open ones. Like I said before, "languages" isn't working as expected, either (that actually gives errors). GreenC, please advise. - dcljr (talk) 04:05, 25 October 2022 (UTC)

Hmm... I can't find what was making me think "active" was causing closed wikis to be listed. Maybe I am not remembering something correctly. What I said about "languages" still applies, though: it results in "language code: -1 not recognized" errors. - dcljr (talk) 05:00, 25 October 2022 (UTC)

Dealing with transcluding subpages

As explained in the previous section, I converted the table at List of Wikipedias/Table (and Wiktionary/Table, etc.) to use template calls instead of relying on a bot (which is no longer working) to update the info there. (The approach still ultimately relies on a bot at Commons.) Because the code required to do this was relatively short, I decided to paste it into List of Wikipedias#All Wikipedias ordered by number of articles directly (as well as on the subpage), in order to reduce the levels of transclusion and thereby potentially keep the numbers more up to date for readers. Now I see that not only are there a bunch of language-specific subpages of this one that transclude the "/Table" subpage, but each similar "project stats" page (Wiktionary/Table, etc.) has its own set of language subpages that transclude that "/Table". Ugh… Instead of avoiding transclusion altogether in all of these language subpages, I've decided it would be better to simply change the way it's done: using labeled section transclusion, I've converted List of Wikipedias and List of Wikipedias/bg to transclude content from the former to the latter, instead of from the "/Table" subpage. (I started with that subpage because it was broken for some reason.) I've done the transclusion in two separate parts, so the Bulgarian subpage can have Bulgarian column headings (which I've probably butchered, since I had to rely on Google Translate for those). Comments? Suggestions? Should this be done on all the other language subpages (that haven't implemented some other solution)? (Pinging Antonio1952, Verdy p, and Meno25 as a few active users I recognize who have been editing some of these subpages.) - dcljr (talk) 06:50, 2 November 2022 (UTC)

Please add the depth as well. It's not hard to do. Here's the formula for calculating the depth of arywiki to 1 decimal: {{#expr: {{#expr: {{NUMBEROF|EDITS|ary}}/{{NUMBEROF|PAGES|ary}} round 2}} * {{#expr: ({{NUMBEROF|PAGES|ary}}-{{NUMBEROF|ARTICLES|ary}})^2/{{NUMBEROF|ARTICLES|ary}}^2 round 2}} round 1}}, and here's its result: 262.6. All you have to do is replace "ary" with the appropriate language code for each language. Ideophagous (talk) 09:51, 3 November 2022 (UTC)

I've tried implementing the above #expr on the table, modified to fit the context, but in the preview I get the error "The time allocated for running scripts has expired". I suppose the only solution would be to use a bot.-- Ideophagous (talk) 10:22, 3 November 2022 (UTC)

Still haven't tried my hand at getting the Depth column to work, but I've noticed that the stats are coming up as out of date even with the table code being contained directly on the List of Wikipedias page rather than transcluded from List of Wikipedias/Table, and that simply relading the page is not working: I have to do a purge to get the stats updated. This appears to be a caching issue that probably can't be improved. In light of this, I'm wondering whether it might not be a good idea to go back to transcluding stuff from the "/Table" subpage (although "modernized" to use labeled section transclusion rather than simple whole-page transclusion, as I discussed in my previous comment here). This would keep the "List of Wikipedias" page source "cleaner", and it might also make it easier for the software to transclude the information into the various pages for the different languages (again, as I discussed above) — i.e., since the "/Table" subpage is so much shorter than the "List of Wikipedias" page. I'm not sure what difference that makes. - dcljr (talk) 02:21, 10 November 2022 (UTC)

Heh… Depth was trivial, because Template:NUMBEROF already knows how to do it! - dcljr (talk) 07:54, 14 November 2022 (UTC)

OK, I've gone back to transcluding the table(s) from List of Wikipedias/Table instead of having the code on this page (List of Wikipedias), because I saw no benefit to doing it that other way. So, the subpages that already transclude from /Table don't need to be changed, after all (I mean, apart from fixing any errors on them, of course, and possibly using labeled section transclusion [which /Table is set up to allow] instead of regular transclusion — or possibly using the Module:Project portal–provided voodoo seen at List of Wikipedias/Table/vi), . - dcljr (talk) 01:44, 15 November 2022 (UTC)

┌─────────────────────────────────┘
Following a discussion at Module talk:Project portal#Completely removing this module, User:Mxn has taken it upon himself to add a function to Module:Project statistics to automatically generate the kind of tables of wiki statistics we have been discussing (including some nifty new localization features). See List of Wikipedias/Table/vi for an example of how it is used. When I get the chance, I'll start converting all the tables to use this module. Of course, if someone else wants to take the lead on that before I do… be my guest. - dcljr (talk) 05:00, 16 November 2022 (UTC)

Three problems:

• Line "All" is missing and lines 320, 323, 324, 325, 327, 328 and 329 are also missing.
• The titles of the Wiki (code language) and Article columns are reversed.
• How can I connect "Depth" to the corresponding voice in italian language?

Antonio1952 (talk) 22:23, 16 November 2022 (UTC)

You should probably start a discussion at Module talk:Project statistics (hopefully Mxn is watching that page). Note, BTW, that the wikis after 318 are closed and so shouldn't actually be in the table (as far as I can tell, based on the Module code). - dcljr (talk) 09:49, 19 November 2022 (UTC)

@Mxn, can You help us? Antonio1952 (talk) 14:46, 22 November 2022 (UTC)

Since Mxn was pinged here multiple times with no reply (before I posted to one of his talk pages), he is probably more likely to get notified by editing Module talk:Project statistics — which I have just done. - dcljr (talk) 22:39, 22 November 2022 (UTC)

Saraiki is missing

Saraiki Wiktionary missing from www.wiktionary.org and www.wikipedia.org . A request for removing bug is filed at https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T319137 but the bug is not removed yet, Sraiki (talk) 15:44, 7 December 2022 (UTC)

Why there are no links to the "Wikipedias" but there are links to names of ~the languages?

Why there are no links to name of Wikipedia (e g en:English Wikipedia) but there are to name of language ( eg en:English language). I think should be both links, in many cases users more often want to read article about the Wikipedia espeially that people who ollow this ranking are Wikipedians and it is easier to know uch abiut the lanuage than Wikipedia in some cases. Let recondsider addidtion of that links too (though remember nt every Wikipedia has own article), we could use link from, "mother Wikipedia" (for example link to article about English Wikipedia on English Wikipedia) and uniersally link from English to everything. Regards. Dawid2009 (talk) 06:15, 14 March 2023 (UTC)

Where would you put them? Also consider that two thirds of language editions don't have corresponding English Wikipedia articles and most probably never will. — Yerpo ^Eh? 18:56, 15 March 2023 (UTC)