Talk:List of Wikipedias/Archive 2

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Ugh...

I don't care for the new look. But it's not beyond repair. There are several things that need to be fixed:

1) Put the native language names in their own script beside the English ones, as in the old version. Link the English name to the en. article, as in the old version.

2) Put section headers for number of digits (10, 100, 1000, etc) as in the old version.

3) Some names are spelled wrong, like Mongolian.

4) I guess you are using some kind of fast bot now for updates? Because noone really wants to take the time to write out all those statistics for each one.

5) There is no room for human comments, like the fact that the Afar wikipedia really has 0 articles, not 6. Blockinblox 20:36, 10 February 2006 (UTC)

I made the script that creates the wiki syntax for the table, but i didnt put it in the article myself. It should have gone into this talk page first probably to sort out bugs and questions like those above. Didnt really consider it done, for example the "local language names", i already have a database column for that but i failed putting in the strings in unicode or the right charset so far. Mutante 22:55, 10 February 2006 (UTC)

It was me, who did it. I dare to comment on the five points of criticism.

1. It is absolutely sufficient that the Local Language Names are displaied in the alphabetical list further below.
2. What is to be the benefit from it?
3. Good point. It is in the making.
4. A kind of that is in the making. What is your point?
5. Comments like these are to appear as footnotes below the table.

84.177.167.83 23:42, 10 February 2006 (UTC)

I agree with Blockinblox about point #1 (both parts of it). It is not sufficient, in my opinion, to have the native language names in a separate list. - dcljr 00:20, 11 February 2006 (UTC)

fixed #3 "Mongolian". Which others do you see as wrongly spelled? also added a part of #1 "Link the English name to the en. article" , i hope they all work by just adding _language in the script. Mutante 00:53, 11 February 2006 (UTC)

In response to number 2) "What is to be the benefit from it?" ie, to "put section headers for number of digits (10, 100, 1000, etc) as in the old version"... Here's what... You see, this page called Wikimedia News, it really helps with that kind of format to figure out when one of the "milestones" is crossed... I'm afraid that the chart may have become too much of an eyesore with all these figures now for many people to keep paying attention to that kind of thing, for example who is going to notice when Turkmen crosses the 100 article line? Blockinblox 02:41, 11 February 2006 (UTC)

Also, in addition to being easier to work with and more aesthetic, having sections for 10, 100, 1000, 10,000 and 100,000 helps avoid edit conflicts if two people are working on differentr sections at the same time. btw I just noticed that Venetic crossed the 100 mark today, and added the info to Wikipedia News. In the old system I could look at a diff and tell exactly how far up it had moved. Blockinblox 15:55, 11 February 2006 (UTC)

Added milestones in reponse to this. Mutante 20:26, 11 February 2006 (UTC)

That didn't solve the specific problems I mentioned, because they are not section headers... You can't use the table of contents to zoom to a specific section, you have to scroll down and hunt for it, and you can't use the "edit" link on the header to work only on that one section and prevent edit conflicts, which is also what headers are supposed to do... Isn't there a way headers can be introduced to this table?? With the old system, we had to manually feed the start number of each section into the list to make the numbers come out right, but that could be done again without messing up the current table couldn't it? Blockinblox 20:59, 11 February 2006 (UTC)

Seperated the table and added headings in response to this. Mutante 15:05, 12 February 2006 (UTC)

You cannot add or edit single entries to the table, only update it by copy and paste from the s23 source. If you want to add an entry, you have to notify Mutante, that he adds it into his script. 84.177.186.126 21:47, 11 February 2006 (UTC)

I'm not sure if we understand each other... I wasn't even talking about adding entries; just section headers... Blockinblox 23:27, 11 February 2006 (UTC)

How about jumping to the top of the table and from there jumping to the respective milestones? It is easy to implement local anchors within the table. 84.177.186.126 00:04, 12 February 2006 (UTC)

Views

Why the number of views is "0" for a lot of Wiki's ? --82.50.191.68 03:12, 11 February 2006 (UTC)

views are not stored now. I don't know the exact date but its not working for about 1.5 years due to service load.--Ugur Basak 22:52, 11 February 2006 (UTC)

Views

Views should not be on the table as in fact they have stoped counting. --Lucinos 03:14, 11 February 2006 (UTC)

I do not like the new table. views shouldnt be in, it is difficult to be edited by enyone. --Lucinos 08:03, 11 February 2006 (UTC)

Removed thew views column again. 0? Well thats what the stats pages report. Why did they stop counting? I dont know. Difficult? Well its wiki table syntax like used before. raw doesnt work? Its a http link like any other, how can it not work on a specific computer? Of course one could drop the raw part and just link to Special:Statistics, though. Mutante 09:22, 11 February 2006 (UTC)

ok I am wrong; it does work. --Lucinos 11:55, 11 February 2006 (UTC)

Update Time Issues

When I am adding statistics to this page, I just want to be able to add the statistics and save them and be done with it. But now, I have noticed that there is a "Last Updated" column in the table, which presents me with the following problem: If I indicate the time at which the Wikipedia in question was updated, it takes additional time, and I can only be accurate to the minute, so I end up truncating the seconds figure. But if I just rush through and do the updates to the figures, it causes the update time to be inaccurate. To make things easier, either the update time column should be removed from the table or we should somehow automate it. Could a bot be created to automatically indicate the time updated whenever someone makes a change to any language's wikipedia statistics? Or better yet, could someone setup a bot to do the actual updating of statistics automatically? 69.153.249.101 18:08, 11 February 2006 (UTC)

You cannot add or edit single entries to the table, only update it by copy and paste from the s23 source. If you want to add an entry, you have to notify Mutante, that he adds it into his script. 18:52, 11 February 2006 (UTC)

Hmm, I could also just drop the timestamp column, if you think its enough that one could also see the latest update time from the page history. On the other hand, you could also manually update timestamps which would make data more accurate when you update only a few rows instead of all at once, but i see how that is more time consuming. Do we want a bot to automatically paste this? I kind of prefer to leave it at manual and just offer the created wiki syntax to help. What update time interval is desired for this table anyways? Mutante 20:33, 11 February 2006 (UTC)

If you look at the edit history, you can see how it was being updated by hand several times a day. Of course, that didn't include all languages every time. I'd say at the very least, it needs to be automatically (bot-) updated once a day — a few times a day would be better. This is assuming you're trying to make manual updating unnecessary. - dcljr 07:38, 12 February 2006 (UTC)

dropped the timestamps in response to this Mutante 15:05, 12 February 2006 (UTC)

Cree is mislabeled Creole

Should be corrected. Togrim 2006-02-11

• That's not the only problem with the language names... "Rhaeto Romance" should be restored to "Romansh"; Klingon should be cut out of the list entirely as that is no longer a project; then there is "Rwandi" and "Choktaw" ... those aren't the English spellings... Don't even get me started on "Cambodian"... Please take a look at the old version because there are lots of other sensitive issues with correct language names that took months for people to correct, that all got suddenly swept aside... Blockinblox 23:25, 11 February 2006 (UTC)

Ok, i was copying from the "List of language names ordered by code" that is right below the new table (and was before).

1. "Creole" Ah,that happened cause it says "Cree" and "Creole" there for cr. Changed to "Cree".
2. "Choktaw", ok corrected that to "Choctaw".
3. "Raeto Romance","Rwandi" and "Cambodian" those are spelled like in the list below.

Should i not use that list as a reference? When comparing to the page history i find "Kinyarwandi" as local name and "Rwandi" as English name in the "List of language names ordered by code",but a third spelling "Kinyarwanda" in the old "All Wikipedias ordered by number of articles" without specifying it as local or english name. Seems like there was no consistency between the "List of language names ordered by code" and "All Wikipedias ordered by number of articles" before. Which is the ultimate reference that i should check against now?

1. set lang="Choctaw" where lang="Choktaw"
2. set lang="Cree" where lang="Creole";
3. set lang="Romansh" where lang="Raeto Romance";
4. set lang="Kinyarwanda" where lang="Rwandi"
5. set lang="Khmer" where lang="Cambodian";
6. set lang="Sesotho" where lang="Southern Sotho";
7. set lang="Lao" where lang="Laotian";
8. set lang="Tswana" where lang="Setswana";
9. set lang="Punjabi" where lang="Panjabi"

Mutante 14:58, 12 February 2006 (UTC)

English only

Why did we loose the translation of the language name in their native tongue??? I though wikipedia was universal and not unilaterally english. Lincher 06:00, 12 February 2006 (UTC)

Simply because of trouble with the unicode characters in the script. Have to work on it. Mutante 15:05, 12 February 2006 (UTC)

Will it come back someday because it was my reference to the languages in their mother tongue. Lincher 00:27, 13 February 2006 (UTC)

Yes, asap. Mutante 09:39, 13 February 2006 (UTC)

The local language names are back now, adding them as html entities solved the problem. Please tell me here if you think a name must be corrected. I took some from Template:Active_Wikipedias and others that were missing from a mediawiki Names.php. Mutante 19:54, 23 February 2006 (UTC)

Keep at it

To those working on this auto-updated version of the table, I just wanted to say, keep working at it. Once the issues are ironed out, this will be a great help to people tracking article-count milestones. Thanks for your efforts... - dcljr 07:29, 12 February 2006 (UTC)

Thanks, tell me about other language names that need to be fixed.

Two other issues

The old version of the page listed 212 non-test Wikipedias, this one 211. I haven't figured out which one has been dropped. Also, the "Good" column should probably be labeled "Articles" instead. - dcljr 07:45, 12 February 2006 (UTC)

The one missing is "bdf" (http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Bdf:) because unlike all others it doesnt have its own subdomain. Mutante 15:05, 12 February 2006 (UTC)

Since Klingon and Akan were not enumerated in the 212 before (and should not be now in the 211) I have a feeling there's more than one missing. Blockinblox 17:35, 12 February 2006 (UTC)

Wikipedias with an own third-level-domain are to be included into this list. Which other Wikipedias have you found missing? 84.177.132.163 17:40, 12 February 2006 (UTC)

The page history is a wonderful thing.... As of the time I'm posting this (at which point the list is back to 212 'pedias), the differences in which wikis are included are as follows: Ewe (ee) and Kuanyuma (kj) are missing from the new version, and Akan (ak) and Klingon (tlh) are in the new version but were not in the old version (both were deprecated). - dcljr 04:36, 14 February 2006 (UTC)

Added "ee" and "kj". Since the criteria was existence of a subdomain, "ak" and "tlh" should stay until the subdomains are removed. Mutante 21:36, 14 February 2006 (UTC)

Renamed "Good" to "Articles" as requested. Mutante 19:55, 12 February 2006 (UTC)

So now Klingon is restored?

Who decided on this? Who decides on such stuff?

Meta page still says Klingon's out in the cold:

Klingon (tlhIngan Hol) – tlh – 62 articles – statistics – all articles - locked, for the twin reasons of being only a fictional language and having no community.

What is right: The LIST on the meta page or the INFORMATION on the same page?

I tried to note on the NEWS that the Kölsh Wikipedia, a genuine and flourishing trial wikipedia noted as functioning on the meta page, had reached 2000 articles, This was jerked off the news page by someone within an hour or two, like it was some serious kinda vandalism. I asked why and have still got no answer. But Klingon, which is officially out according to the same page, is put on the official list and remains there for days. Is there any system here that can be explained to us stupid outsiders about what is a genuine wikipedia and what is not?

Weird!

Togrim, 2006-02-12

When adding languages to the new list i simply took all that have their own subdomain at wikipedia.org. tlh.wikipedia.org existed, but koelsch didnt have one yet. I wasnt aware Klingon had been blocked before. I could just add Koelsch as well though, because it also provides raw stats. I would keep both personally, i am from Cologne myself :) and would vote for Klingon to be an accepted Wikipedia as well. But i can also see the point of listing only "official" Wikipedias, then both would need to stay out for fairness? Mutante 09:39, 13 February 2006 (UTC)

As I see it, Kölsch is on its way in and Klingon is on its way out. Regarding the fact of having a third-level-domain at wikipedia.org, both transitions are still to be completed. Changes in this list are to take effect no sooner than either of the two domain transitions have been completed. 84.177.177.92 09:57, 13 February 2006 (UTC)

Mutante, Klingon has been locked, because the board wanted it that way. They did not formally argue against fictional languages (non-auxiliary conlangs) per se, but it seems likely that they consider it somewhat undesirable. Moreover, it didn't really work - it remained at around fifty articles. Wikipedias in fictional languages - if at all - only have a right to exist when a lot of people foster them and work on them. With natural languages, the case is quite different.

tlh: is unlikely to be ever opened again, but it should continue, imo, as a Wikiproject on another location, say Wikicities, as happened to the toki pona wiki before. Caesarion 16:52, 13 February 2006 (UTC)

Internal-link style

The way the table is linking to the Main Pages, for example:

[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ en]

should be changed to "internal link" style:

[[:en:|en]]

I'm pretty sure the "Statistics" links can't be changed because of the "action=raw" directive. - dcljr 04:49, 14 February 2006 (UTC)

done, changed to internal links Mutante 21:36, 14 February 2006 (UTC)

One more thing

It's looking a lot better now... But could we get a little column on the right to make comments, like in the old version? You know, the ones that say "Most of the articles are in English" or "mostly just links" etc. I don't think these should be footnotes as the anon IP suggested... I just don't want to mess with your table program, so I wonder if you would do it... --Blockinblox 23:17, 14 February 2006 (UTC)

We could solve this by using nested tables. So the inner table could be copy and pasted and the outer table would contain the comments that would be kept manual. I thought this was a good idea by robiH but i couldnt get the nested tables to work right and validate in html yet. Look here and you will get the idea though. Can you do that in wikisyntax and just put another table around the existing table with a comments column? Mutante 12:04, 24 February 2006 (UTC)

What about this? Mutante 12:31, 25 February 2006 (UTC)

Sorry, I know that you've put a lot of work into this feature—and it's a technical achievement in itself—but it just doesn't look as good as it did before. It looks rather clunky now. Frankly, I'm not sure there is a huge need for this feature. If you look at a version of this page as it was before you started work on it, e.g. from 9 February, you'll see very few comments. The vast majority of those are in the 1+ and 0 articles sections, and just emphasise how empty those Wikipedias are. But this is actually obvious from the fact that they are in those sections in the first place!

Can you please put it back the way it was before?GeorgeStepanek 01:47, 26 February 2006 (UTC)

So we got

1. one vote for the first solution by GeorgeStepanek
2. one vote for the second solution by Blockinblox

Any further opinions? 84.177.157.238 17:28, 26 February 2006 (UTC)

It's good to be able to write in comments somewhere, like "Klingon is locked" or "Afar really has 0 articles, the counter is broken"... But I kind of preferred it when we could use the menu at the top to click directly to the section header for 100, 10, etc. Anyone else feel this way? It also would cut down on edit conflicts to have headers if two people were editing separate sections at the same time, although now with semi-automation this seems less of an issue... Furthermore, the "local names" is good, but several of these used to be in Cyrillic and probably ought to be, certainly Udmurt, for instance... Cool runnins Blockinblox 18:23, 26 February 2006 (UTC)

-- Fixed Udmurt, changed to Cyrillic. Mutante 11:35, 27 February 2006 (UTC)

I've added a Notes subheader into which I've put back some of the old comments. They're probably out-of-date by now, but it shows how it might work. GeorgeStepanek 04:51, 27 February 2006 (UTC)

Actually, both is possible. Both scripts are being updated every four hours:

1. Table with milestone separations
2. Table with nesting for comments

It is up to the majority to decide on which of the two is to be taken for pasting on a regular basis in order to keep the ranking up to date. 84.177.157.238 18:57, 26 February 2006 (UTC)

kg.wikipedia stats broke

Kongo Wikipedia just suffered from Bug 4650, and the stats page broke. Special:Statistics reports good=18446744073709551615. A bug which has been found on cy.wikisource.org before but here its new. Thats why i didnt update the stats table, it would have shown Kongo as Number #1.

The correct stats can be still be calculated from the broken number, though:

<robiH> X=18446744073709551616; If good>X/2 then good=X-good

Mutante 19:13, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

I've fixed this. The problem was that the number of articles was -1 i.e. zero articles with links minus one for the Main Page. The problem only occurs when the Main Page has no links, so I added a link to Special:Statistics on kg's main page, and the numbers now come out just fine. GeorgeStepanek 00:54, 19 February 2006 (UTC)

I tried the same fix on the Main page of cy.wikisource and it did not work. Can you find out, why not? 84.177.153.31 21:24, 19 February 2006 (UTC)

I think that might actually be a different bug! Sorry, I have no idea why it might be occurring. There are plenty of real articles in cy.wikisource, so that can't be the problem. GeorgeStepanek 04:03, 20 February 2006 (UTC)

"Pitching in with development is welcome"

From this page:

Currently, Wikipedia's volunteer developers are overworked and understaffed. Your patience is appreciated, and pitching in with development is welcome.

A few months ago, I attempted to volunteer to assist on the MediaWiki development project via the #mediawiki channel on IRC. If the above really is true, and the developers are overworked, understaffed and are looking for others to assist them, then why was I treated so brusquely by the developer I spoke to (whom I shall not name)? I left the conversation (such as it was) with the feeling that my assistance was not desired, despite the fact that I work as a software developer for one of the world's largest software houses, and indeed frankly I would not wish to work in a team where I would be treated with such rudeness and unhelpfulness as I encountered. I suggest that the mention that "pitching in with development is welcome" is removed, because the contrary appears to be the case. --81.153.70.78 23:51, 23 February 2006 (UTC)

I can't speak to a specific unnamed incident, but do note that a lot of people want a very different kind of wiki than what Wikimedia requires. If you wanted, say, advanced ACL support, I would not expect that to have been received with much enthusiasm; that's not a direction we really want the software to go, at least not without a lot more thought.

By the way, if it was me please feel free to name me. I'd prefer to be more aware of when I'm being unwelcoming so I can tone that down. :) --brion 02:16, 24 February 2006 (UTC)

Galician

the galician form is galeg with one l gallego is spanish. please do not change back again.

ACK,changed in script to "galego", so people can paste again without changing it back. i assume you meant "galego" and just forgot the o because thats what you did in the main page, right? Mutante 20:54, 24 February 2006 (UTC)

Assyrian Neo-Aramaic

The Assyrian language is not called "ܕܥܒܪܸܝܛ" (that word doesn't even make sense) , it should be changed to "ܣܘܪܬ"

fixed in script. Mutante 11:48, 5 March 2006 (UTC)

We're THERE!!!

Pardon the capital letters. They show my excitement at wikipedia reaching 1,000,000 articles!!!!!

Yep, It happened. Yep, I was there. Yep, I saw it :-D

Asnatu 23:12, 1 March 2006 (UTC)

VANDALISM against Serbian?

Hey, what happened to SERBIAN? Used to be there, right in front of hungarian and after hebrew at number 18.

Serbian is dumped to the last place on the list, no 214!

VANDALISM???

Togrim, norw user, 2006-03-03

Seems to be a glitch in the retrieval script. I've notified mutante, he will fix it on Monday. 84.177.176.186 12:50, 3 March 2006 (UTC)

Done!200.180.160.121 05:00, 5 March 2006 (UTC)

Didnt change anything on the script, just worked by itself again. must have been a problem retrieving the stats page at that specific moment, no intention at all. Mutante 11:49, 5 March 2006 (UTC)

Spacing in the tables

Many of the columns have numbers which are also External Links. In my browser, there's a 20 or 30 pixel wide "double-arrow" icon, which spills over into the next column to the right.

Is there a way to widen the column or add some       non-breaking spaces to even out the column? --Ed Poor 01:35, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

I cannot reproduce this glitch. Anybody else? RobiH 07:54, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

Yes, I've got the problem too. That's how it looks like in Firefox 1.5.0.1: [1]. --83.23.57.162 11:27, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

I think that the problem would be solved if you replaced external links, such as [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Statistics?action=raw '''1027930'''] with something like this: [[:en:Special:Statistics?action=raw|'''1027930''']]. --83.23.57.162 11:40, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

I have changed all columns that used external link style to the style mentioned above. Looks better! Its fixed in the script now so you can copy/paste again. Mutante 18:03, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

I needed to put the external link style back for the "Special:Statistics?action=raw" link, they dont work this way, see here: User_talk:Mutante#Largest_Wikipedias_statistics_links_broken. Do you know how to hide the external link arrow and have it working? [2] says "There is a class that can be used to remove the arrow image from the external link. It is used in Template:Ref to stop the URL from expanding during printing. It should never be used in the main body of an article." what to do? Mutante 15:07, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

You must add the class plainlinksneverexpand to the MediaWiki:Common.css:

.plainlinksneverexpand a {background: none !important; padding: 0 !important}

Then this code should display correct link without arrow:

<span class="plainlinksneverexpand">[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Statistics?action=raw '''1031762''']</span>

--Filemon 16:38, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

Papiamento

I want to know if you have any article in Papiamento.

There is currently a Test-wikipedia in Papiamento which may be found here. Jade Knight 01:33, 20 March 2006 (UTC)

Pangasinan

no Pangasinan Language, it is similar to Ilokano, its a philippine language

• Wikipedias for new languages can be requested via the Requests for new languages page. Arbeo 17:30, 30 March 2006 (UTC)

Romani

I added the links for the newly created Romani Wikipedia, but 139.78.120.88 erased them. What is the problem? Desiphral 18:14, 25 March 2006 (UTC)

Vietnamese: more users than articles :)

Interesting that the Vietnamese wiki has more users (7631) than articles (6480). They must have had tremendous press coverage, or else a very effective word-of-mouth network. A-giâu 01:56, 8 April 2006 (UTC)

You're right. There was a surge of users after one of the admins was featured in the largest daily in Vietnam. Press coverage had been increasingly coming. But most users spend more time discussing than writing...220000+ edits and only 7000 legit articles (besides 365 for the days of the year and 60 for the en:sexagenary cycle, all are created by humans). DHN 00:10, 27 April 2006 (UTC)

More about table formatting

The way the tables are currently formatted, all cells except those in the bold article-count column are right-aligned using style="text-align: right;". (Why, I'm not sure — makes sense to do this for the numbers, but why for the language names?) Anyway, a lot of bytes could be saved by putting the style declaration on each row instead of each individual cell. The article-counts column would then be the only one that would require special alignment. To wit:

|- style="text-align: right;"
| 224
| [[w:Ewe language|Ewe]] 
| [[w:Ewe language|Ewe]]
| [[:ee:|ee]]
| style="text-align: left;" class="plainlinksneverexpand" | [{{fullurl:ee:Special:Statistics|action=raw}} '''0''']
| 982
| [[:ee:Special:Statistics|308]]
| [[:ee:Special:Listadmins|0]]
| [[:ee:Special:Listusers|50]]

This would cut about 40K out of the page's 127K of wikitext. - dcljr 03:14, 17 April 2006 (UTC)

Shortened the Wiki syntax as proposed, one text-align on each row instead of each individual cell. Yep, youre right. Mutante 10:54, 23 April 2006 (UTC)

Actually i dont think we need the left align in the "raw"-link column. I tried both and dropped it. Just made it completely right-aligned,looks better and saved even more bytes. Mutante 11:21, 23 April 2006 (UTC)

"Native names"

Hi. I've been noticing a lot of places where Sesotho is written "seSotho" on various Wikipedias and Wikimedia projects. This largely seems to only happen on the various Wikipedias. I, as a 1st language speaker of the language, can assure you that the name is not written "seSotho" in the language. I've seen this in so many places that I'm convinced there's some central place/policy which incorrectly declares the name to be "seSotho", could someone perhaps point me directly to it? en:User:Zyxoas.

I have changed the local name from "seSotho" to "Sesotho". Is that right? From what you said i can only be 100% sure how it is NOT written. But i take it, english and local name are identical then? Mutante 18:22, 1 May 2006 (UTC)

German?

Hey, what happened to German? It's the second largest wikipedia on here and it has apparently dropped out of existance. I suspect it may have something to do with the note on the wikistats script posted on the April 29, 2006 history. I don't know how to get all of the data or update this page from the script, so I figured I'd post so someone could be notified. --216.228.28.177 01:07, 30 April 2006 (UTC)

Fixed. RobiH 20:42, 30 April 2006 (UTC)

Please correct the name of the rmy.wp

I corrected it few times but it came back again the incorrect form. This Wiki is not written in the Vlax Romani dialect, but in the generic Romani. So the denomination is: Romani (English) and romani - रोमानी (local name), as it is biscriptal, with the English link to en:Romani language. I think it must be changed something in the Auto Update. Thanks, Desiphral 12:29, 30 April 2006 (UTC)

I have changed the english language name from "Vlax Romani" to "Romani" and the local language name to रोमानी Unicode in HTML entities: रोमानी (in the database of the script that creates wiki syntax) Mutante 18:24, 1 May 2006 (UTC)

Thanks, also the local name, should be in both writing systems, first Latin, second, Devanagari, with a "minus" sign in between: "romani - रोमानी" (this wiki uses both writing systems). Desiphral 10:28, 2 May 2006 (UTC)

Done. Mutante 07:08, 3 May 2006 (UTC)

Note that local language languages that use multiple scripts use a slash instead of a hyphen to separate the names (hyphen has another meaning. 18:45, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

Which other meaning? It means alternate names, as in other language entries that have multiple names considered equivalent even if they are written with a different script or which have several orthographies in the same script. This designates variants of the written language, not necessarily variants of the spoken language. On the opposite, the hyphen means that the second part adds a precision to the first name, and thus acts as a restriction with exclusive meaning rather than an inclusive meaning. Isn't the alternation the intended meaning?

For example we would use "Serbian - Cyrillic" to make the distinction from "Serbian - Latin". The hyphenation means that the two parts are necessary to each other, creating a single expression, and that removing one part would create an ambiguity. Verdy P 14:26, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

field image: in table

Any reason they point to Special:Listusers rather than Special:Imagelist? Phe 19:59, 4 May 2006 (UTC)

No, there wasnt. They point right now Mutante 07:05, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

grand total

Added a "Grand Total" by request, Mutante 05:53, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

Native name of czech language

Hi, I just tried to change the local name of the czech language to Čeština (cs:Čeština), but the correct spelling was automatically reverted by an IP that was updating the number of articles. Has it to be changed here? Who could do this? --Sippel2707 10:03, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

This is online, but the updater should really update its script to use the much smaller Wiki format which ensures that all elements in the table use the same link formats, and uses the proper text alignments (the cost on the server is a single small template used throughout the list. 18:39, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

Note that the page says that it is normally not updated by a bot (because there are comments and other modifications in the page, that must be kept). So the updater should consider the format he sees when editing the page manually and should use it because of its much smaller size which is easier to edit for most people, and mucheasier to generate from a script (it uses the same variables as in raw Sepcial:Statistics).

18:41, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

No, the page actually says that a bot doesn't do the updating, but a bot does gather up all the information about all the wikis at one time (using the raw version of Special:Statistics), so that you can simply copy and paste the entire table. This way, all the languages are presented fairly, with their statistics taken from the same point in time. The new format is actually much more difficult to use, because you have to update every language manually, row by row. If you'd like the script to be updated to use the new format, I'd suggest getting in touch with Mutante. Otherwise, the new format has made the page a lot less useful. For example, your method has missed the fact that the Tetum Wikipedia has reached 100 articles today, because no one thought to check its statistics page. – Minh Nguyễn (talk, contribs) 23:57, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

My method does not change the method for updating the tables. It just makes the other parts of the page more easily maintainable (Now 30 KB only). Regarding the Tetum Wikipedia, it does not change anything (in fact i have NOT updated the stats, just changed the format, knowing that Mutante (that I have previously contacted) will update them.

Maintenance of language names (english or local), of their directionality (for proper rendering), of the lang=attribute (also to allow selection of fonts based on stylesheets), of the associated wiki article (describing the language) is separated and uniform throughout Meta pages (well, I don't like the "N *" names that were chosen for these language templates, but this was kept for keeping legacy pages working; I just completed the missing language names in those templates).

So I am suggesting to use similar "macros" on other related statistic pages ; I fear about the existenceof a bot, because only one maintainer (Mutante) is refreshing the stats, using its own definition of language names, and reverting some significant changes that had occured; with the new format, it will be infact easier to copy/paste the Wiki syntax created from his cron job, which will no longer need toworry about formatting issues, language names, links to wiki articles (lookingat the history of the page, I can see that even Mutante has difficulties to properly copy/paste the tables, with some reverts of his own edits, multiple edits...).

I know that when the stats are updated, it takes some seconds to process the page (to process the language templates in fact), but it remains in the cache and this event occurs only one or twice a day, when stats are actually updated.

As Mutante is already changing his cron job, changing it to the new format, and sorting languages will be easier like this. His own generation template will be much easier to modify as this uses a much maller and simpler syntax. In fact the number of operations performed in his job will be reduced to a minimum, avoiding errors.

Hi, indeed it is like this: There is no bot actually pasting the table, to assure manual control, BUT a script/cronjob is automatically checking all the wiki statistics to then create the complete table in wiki syntax here to offer it for manual pasting. The script uses a local database for the language names and URLs, so if you want me to make changes to those, just tell me and i will do it asap. (see older requests above). I have changed the local name for cs.wikipedia to Čeština now as requested. (I also made the change to the wikitionries, wikibooks,wikisources list, which are being created in a similar fashion). About the new format: What would you want me to change in the script output? Notice there has been ongoing discussion in the past about the linking syntax and text alignments etc before. Greets, Mutante 07:20, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

And sorry for not signing here as I don't have an account for now on Meta. (Anyway, Mutante does not use his account too we he submits the stats update his cron job is computing (the page history just shows his IP). For some days (or several weeks), I will update the stats dayly using my own simple Excel spreadsheet that downloads the raw stats from the 229 domains and then computes the sorted list in wiki format), until I see that Mutante has adpted his cron job to generate such small format.

If you want the Excel source, I can give it (it is in XML format, without any macro, and will work with Excel 2000, XP, 2003 or more). But I could write a PHP script to download the rawstats and compute the same thing. It's just that I will probably add more sheets in the same workbook to update the other stats page sorted and presented differently. (Iwon't use a bot to submit the stats, I will just use online edits with copy/paste operations (but may be the stats tables should be in a single template that can be submitted directly by a bot, without having to edit the main page).

Note: the names of languages and their presentation (right-to-left or left-to-right) is no longer within the wiki code of the page (now reduced to 30KB including the top and footer sections and the notes), but taken from templates that can be updated independantly, it will address the various issues that have happened and were discussed in the above discussions: to change a language name, use the templates that are indicated at the bottom of the page. These templates avoid updating the script or spreadsheet that computes the stats, so changes are kept and not overwritten when submitting stats updates.

I noted that that Klingon (tlh) was normally closed, but its Wiki is still live (and its stats change too), it was listed in the table of the previous format, so I did not delete it. Should it still be present in the list? (same remark about Akan: is it open or closed ?) 22:36, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

I am always using my account, updates of the table are made by other users (using IP) as well. It seems to me you are exactly repeating what i did already. It is a PHP script already, i am exporting it as Wikisyntax, HTML and XML already. We had the discussiong about the language names before, we had the discussion about Klingon before..sigh. Does everybody want this template syntax? Can you explain what is so much better about it? Is that really KISS? I also think it would have been nice to wait for consensus before just pushing your new way through after i have modified my syntax constantly following every request for the last weeks Mutante 07:07, 17 May 2006 (UTC)

I for one am very happy with the page as it is now: I think that Mutante's script generates much nicer, more informative and more up-to-date tables than we had before. I also appreciate that he always responds quickly and helpfully to any requests or suggestions.
Saying that, I do have another suggestion. I see that someone has added a "Grand Total" section to this page. I think that's a great idea: newspaper articles about us are always getting the number wrong. Mutante, could you possibly add this feature to the script please? Perhaps so as to put the number at the very top, as per w:List of countries by GDP (nominal) (and many other pages)? GeorgeStepanek 00:09, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

George, see above Talk:List_of_Wikipedias#grand_total, it is already being output by the script (scroll down), and adding it to all other lists (Wikiquotes, Wikisources etc) is on my ToDo list. Mutante 10:27, 21 May 2006 (UTC)

Cool. I was probably confused because the number format is different. Any chance of making it match the rest of the table, please? GeorgeStepanek 09:09, 24 May 2006 (UTC)

Whats wrong with piedmontese?

Piedmontese rounded 100 articles today.

100 articles is a milestone that it is recomended to note on the list.

So somebody deleted it.

Why?

togrim, user of the norwegian wikipedia, 2006-05-15?

It is in the list: Piedmontese had 106 articles when the list was updated, so naturally it's now above Gothic and Turkmen. Please stop suspecting everyone here of trying to silence you; you just happen to be using some frequently-updated pages that change often. – Minh Nguyễn (talk, contribs) 18:10, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

Dear Minh Nguyen,

This was a posting to the wrong page, I wanted to post it to the NEWS page. My error.

I DID put in Pidemontese on the news page when it passed 100, it was THEN deleated. Then the rights for people like me to post this kinda stuff was taken away.

This isnt somebody trying to silence ME, this is basically changing the NEWS page in a way that makes is less NEWSWORTHY, as id say as a (pro) journalist. AND it is changing it away from the Wikipedia model of developtment, too. Again, WHY? togrim, user of the norwegian wikipedia, 2006-05-17

The page history says otherwise. I think it's likely that you submitted your changes, but for some reason you got one of these error messages and forgot to resubmit your changes. Thus your contributions never appeared on the page. Or did you use the Show preview button by mistake? (Sorry if I'm insulting your intelligence here, but I get a lot of complaints like this as an administrator at the Vietnamese Wikipedia.) On the other hand, my addition to Wikimedia News was removed, because apparently my browser screwed up the page when I submitted the news item, so someone reverted my edits without noticing my addition. Oops. – Minh Nguyễn (talk, contribs) 23:25, 17 May 2006 (UTC)

Dropping all statistical lists but one

I advocate for dropping all statistical lists linked to from Template:Project lists apart from Table of Wikimedia Projects by Size. Even though being kept up to date by a script, it requires too much attention pasting them on a regular basis. The remaining list is well enough in determining how well certain languages or projects fare compared to each other. RobiH 21:23, 21 May 2006 (UTC)

I suggest keeping the list. An automated script uses little effort. Article counts mean little. without any real content ranking above "smaller" wikis with much greater coverage. --Cool Cat^Talk|@ 21:37, 21 May 2006 (UTC)

I do not want to have all lists removed. I only think that one list instead of seven lists is sufficient to keep track of all projects. RobiH 05:40, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

I vote for keeping the lists. One master list would become too large. Effort of pasting the lists has been succesfully shared between many people, so not a real problem. And about "Some wikis are fill of stubs", that was the idea behind adding the "stub ratio" (good articles / stubs) in the html version f.e. [3]. Mutante 06:57, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

The "one master list" already exists. It is Table of Wikimedia Projects by Size and is sufficient for all. The particular lists have no additional benefit over it. RobiH 15:17, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

"Mongoloian"

Does anyone know how to fix this to say "Mongolian"??? Blockinblox 14:56, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

Hmm, the typo is not in my script, either somebody just edited it manually,so it should be gone on next paste, or it is in the new script of the (anonymous) new author. Mutante 06:52, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

The typo was in one of the templates. I fixed it. RobiH 15:09, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

Native links

I think the native name link for each language should link to the article in that specific Wikipedia about that language rather to the English Wikipedia. DHN 05:21, 24 May 2006 (UTC)

Not every language has one. RobiH 19:14, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

Yes but the link can be changed: See Template:N wiki article and set the link to the page in another wiki (for now all links point to "w:XXXX language" (so they go by default to the English Wikipedia), with some exceptions pointing to english articles named differently. You may set the link for example as "w:fr:Français" for the French language link. 86.221.32.107 23:21, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

Done; Changed the template accordingly. RobiH 19:29, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

This was wrong: you did not follow the advice above accordingly, you broke the /lang template instead of editing the Template:N wiki article to set the appropriate article wiki link for individual languages. Your change in /lang was reverted. To change the link to wikipedia articles for appropriate languages, set the value for appropriate languages that do have a localized version of the article, not for all, because they are not named consistently across all wikis (and in fact, most of them use various ways to name languages, adding locale-specific qualifying suffixes or prefixes to the language name, to avoid ambiguities.

Even in the English wikipedia, not all languages have articles named with the scheme "w:(language name) language", and some languages are spoken in articles speaking about families of languages, or a parent language from which it is derived (and for a few ones, still in test, there's no other article than the one that discusses about a ethnic group. For this reason, the Template:N wiki article returns the full interwiki with its prefix (but it is restricted to interwiki links, external URLs are not accepted). It should point preferably on an edition of Wikipedia, but an article in wiktionnary ("wikt:" instead of "w:") could be fine as well if there's no article in Wikipedia.

One more note: I have just set the links to the localized articles speaking about the 25 first languages in Wikipedia. I stopped there because Indonesian doesn't appear to have a localized version easily found in the list of interwikis present on the English page. But other languages may be set as well.

I just used the interwikis link found in the English Wikipedia article discussing each language.

Thanks. 86.221.102.98 13:02, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

Basque Counter Broken?

Sorry for my bad English, but is the Basque counter broken? It has a lot of articles coming every minute but the last article was made 2 hours a go. Greetz, 82.157.241.241 19:48, 24 May 2006 (UTC)

This list isn't automatically updated. This code is updated from the database every few hours, and a user has to come by and update the page using that code. – Minh Nguyễn (talk, contribs) 10:02, 27 May 2006 (UTC)

Probably they are new articles made by bots. 200.248.254.100 21:02, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

Server load

I'm wondering whether the server is being unnecessarily taxed by the template inclusion now being used in the article-count table. Perhaps the script should be changed to prepend "subst:" to every instance of a template. (Time passes.) Ah, I see the "/lang" template is using four other templates. So maybe subst'ing only the "top-level" template wouldn't be of much benefit...? - dcljr 05:45, 1 June 2006 (UTC)

Using subst does not help the maintenance of the table by external scripts. And this was done to reduce much the size of the wiki for this table, and maintaning the list of languages accurate and easily maintenable accross multiple pages. This has no penalty, except when the statistics is refreshed where it takes about adozen of seconds to reload the templates (once a day, not a big deal). The rest of the time, the page remains cached. And the page is not a discussion area and is not intended for frequent updates by lots of people. 90.5.141.193 11:55, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

Note that someone changed the code in /lang to change the links to the Wikipedia articles talking about each language, and point it arbitrarily to article names in each wiki. This code was incorrect, broke all links to RTL languages, and pointed nowhere on most wikipedias. To set a localized article name for a particular language name, set the link in the "wiki article template" where you can set the effective target interwiki link for a particular language.

See Template:N en/list and you'll see the complete list of links in the appropriate column, and you can click on the top header to rech the template where you can substitute a particular value.

Note that Wiki articles are not always named using the same naming conventions, they vary, even in the English Wikipedia. Note also that the "w:" prefix is part of the returned values for the wiki article template. The prefix can be set according to the target Wiki you want to reach for describing a particular language. 90.5.141.193 12:03, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

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