Grants talk:PEG/WM ES/GLAM National Museum of Sculpture of Spain

Active discussions

GAC members who support this requestEdit

  1. -- ♪Karthik♫ ♪Nadar♫ 06:18, 11 May 2015 (UTC)
  2. -- DerekvG (talk) 19:29, 19 May 2015 (UTC)
  3. Very extensive and well planned; also, I like the approach of addressing the general public of a cultural institution: the Wikimedia movement will certainly benefit from this association. I trust your assessment of time and costs, and anyway I see you have backup plans to extend the project if needed. Thank you for taking the time to write such a detailed proposal. --Dry Martini (talk) 09:55, 20 May 2015 (UTC)
  4. I am not so enthusiastic of WiRs in general but in this case it makes sense considering the deliveries. The program is not focused in a single impact but includes several activities. I appreciate a lot if Laura can change the definition of Wikipedian in residence with "project manager". --Ilario (talk) 09:55, 22 May 2015 (UTC)
  5. Polimerek (talk) 00:18, 31 May 2015 (UTC)
  6. Strong support. I think this is one of the best project proposals I've seen. Carefully thought, and hopefully it will be greatly executed. Alleycat80 (talk)
  7. My support and special thanks for rigorous bilingual way of the submission! One of the submissions which should be used as a model for "How to make a good submission".
    Danny B. 14:50, 5 June 2015 (UTC)
  8. Thanks for Laura's replay --Packa (talk) 09:26, 6 June 2015 (UTC)
  9. Nice planned. Good to see non English requests can be posted too. MADe (talk) 20:32, 23 June 2015 (UTC)
  10. This is a great request - thorough, diverse actions, but focused, and written in two languages. I support this for when Laura returns from Venezuela. --Islahaddow (talk) 22:34, 24 June 2015 (UTC)

GAC members who oppose this requestEdit

GAC members who abstain from voting/commentEdit

GAC commentsEdit

Extensive, very well planned and hope to see a great report out of it. I'm little bit worried on the amount of time you have planned for; i.e 4 months as I wonder it might take more time though not sure. What would be the plan in that case; like would you leave it as much done or you would extend it for say further a month. -- ♪Karthik♫ ♪Nadar♫ 06:17, 11 May 2015 (UTC)

(English) Karthik, thanks for your support and trust. About your question, we share your concern, because it's difficult to calculate the time in advance. Anyway, we consider possible that the collaboration extends in some of these ways, none of them excluding the rest:
  1. Keep up the contributions and activities, made by the musem's staff themselves in an autonomous way as a result of the training received, maybe with some advice from us or other WM-ES members;
  2. Ask PEG for a one or two-months extension with similar financial parameters, if the museum can keep the work conditions of the wikipedian in residence;
  3. Keep up a collaboration, maybe with less in-site implication, financed by the museum itself or related institutions, if they are convinced enough by the results;
  4. Keep up a collaboration, maybe with less in-site implication, financed by the GLAM budget of WM-ES for 2016, if the association receives the necessary funds of the APG program, which soon will be requested for the first time.
We hope to have clarified, and we'll be glad to answer any other doubt. Laura Fiorucci (talk) 10:36, 11 May 2015 (UTC) & -jem- (talk) 10:39, 11 May 2015 (UTC)
(Spanish) Karthik, gracias por el apoyo y la confianza. Sobre lo que preguntas, compartimos tu preocupación, porque es difícil calcular el tiempo de antemano. En todo caso, sí consideramos posible que la colaboración se prolongue de alguna de estas formas, ninguna de las cuales excluye al resto:
  1. Mantener las aportaciones y actividades, realizándolas el propio equipo del Museo de forma autónoma gracias a la formación recibida, quizás con asesoramientos puntuales nuestros o de otros socios de WM-ES;
  2. Pedir en PEG una prórroga de uno o dos meses con parámetros económicos similares, si el museo puede mantener las condiciones de trabajo del wikipedista en residencia;
  3. Mantener una colaboración, tal vez con menos implicación presencial, financiada por el propio museo u otros organismos afines, si les convencen suficientemente los resultados;
  4. Mantener una colaboración, tal vez con menos implicación presencial, financiada por el presupuesto de actividades GLAM de WM-ES para 2016, si la asociación recibe los fondos necesarios del programa de APG, que se solicitarán en breve por primera vez.
Esperamos haberlo aclarado, y estaremos encantados de atender cualquier otra duda. Laura Fiorucci (talk) 10:36, 11 May 2015 (UTC) y -jem- (talk) 10:39, 11 May 2015 (UTC)
Thanks Laura! -- ♪Karthik♫ ♪Nadar♫ 09:51, 26 May 2015 (UTC)

First comment: I also share Karthik's misgivings. Your answers sound good, but do you have experience with such activities? --Packa (talk) 20:49, 12 May 2015 (UTC)

(English) Hi, Packa. I've never been a wikipedian in residence; I guess you mean that. I do have collaborated in the organization, start up and on site help in several edit-a-thons: Wikimaratón Científico 2014, Editatón Día Internacional de la Mujer 2015, Editatón Europeana Fashion, Taller y Editatón Mujer 2015, Editatón por la visibilidad de las científicas en Wikipedia... In the Wikimedia projects, I have collaborated for almost 10 years, mainly in Spanish Wikipedia, where I'm a sysop. In the chapters movement, I've been quite active since 2011. I have also worked in an artist's workshop for more than 15 years, making the organization and cataloguing of his works, and assisting him in the mounting of exhibitions. I'm the creator of a documentary archive about dance in Venezuela, which includes newspapers, music, video and photo sections, personal belongings and library, which has been used as a reference by university students for their theses. I also have experience in staff management and organization and production of shows; I worked for 24 years as assistant and then director of a ballet company in Venezuela, the one of the Teresa Carreño Cultural Complex, and that helped me to learn how to create work teams, besides that I managed a 50 adults workforce and, in some shows, up to 70 children. I'm learning to use QuarkXPress for magazine designing, and I've already done some basic tasks in that area (for the publication about the visual editor). I have my own wiki (, configured by -jem- for me.
Of course, no project of the size of this one with the Nacional Sculpture Museum can be carried forward by just one person; furthermore, it is against the wiki spirit. That's why I count on Wikimedia Spain and some of their members, very committed to the idea, who support me with this project. In particular, -jem- will help me directly in everything related to technical computer tasks, and design and logistics, to name just one. Greetings, Laura Fiorucci (talk) 12:35, 14 May 2015 (UTC)
(Spanish) Hola, Packa. Nunca he sido wikipedista en residencia; supongo que te refieres a eso. Sí he colaborado en la organización, puesta en marcha y ayuda presencial en varios editatones: Wikimaratón Científico 2014, Editatón Día Internacional de la Mujer 2015, Editatón Europeana Fashion, Taller y Editatón Mujer 2015, Editatón por la visibilidad de las científicas en Wikipedia... En los proyectos Wikimedia llevo casi 10 años de colaboración, sobre todo en Wikipedia, donde soy administradora. En el movimiento de capítulos, he estado bastante activa desde 2011. También he trabajado en el taller de un artista plástico durante más de 15 años, haciendo la organización y catalogación de su obra y asistiéndolo en el montaje de exposiciones. Soy la creadora de un archivo documental sobre danza en Venezuela, que consta de hemeroteca, discoteca, videoteca, archivo fotográfico, objetos personales y biblioteca, que ha servido de referencia a estudiantes universitarios para la realización de sus tesis. También tengo experiencia en manejo de personal y organización y producción de espectáculos; fui 24 años asistente y luego directora de una compañía de ballet en Venezuela, la del Teatro Teresa Carreño, y esto me ayudó a aprender a crear equipos de trabajo, además de que manejaba una plantilla de 50 adultos y en algunos espectáculos hasta de 70 niños. Estoy aprendiendo a utilizar el programa QuarkXPress para maquetación de revistas, y ya he realizado tareas básicas en esa área (para la revista sobre el editor visual). Tengo mi propio wiki (, configurada por -jem- para mí.
Por supuesto que cualquier proyecto de la envergadura de este con el Museo Nacional de Escultura no es posible llevarlo adelante en solitario; además, va en contra del espíritu wiki. Por eso cuento con Wikimedia España y algunos de sus socios, muy comprometidos con la idea, que me apoyan con este proyecto. En particular, -jem- me ayudará directamente con todo lo relacionado a asuntos informáticos técnicos, de diseño y logística, solo por nombrar uno. Saludos, Laura Fiorucci (talk) 12:35, 14 May 2015 (UTC)
(English) Apart from Laura's experience, which she has detailed long enough, I'd like to add that Wikimedia Spain has been in operation for very few years and just now we have enough internal organization and adequate human resources to begin deepening in this GLAM collaborations, and that's why we have launched the GLAMing Madrid project and this one, which are the first of their kind. Spain has its particularities, to which we must adapt, and the institutions have yet to know the posibilities that collaborations like these can offer, so “everything is new”, and this is not about, nor it is possible, to build on previous experiences in our country (although we'll take into consideration the ones from other countries), but to lay the foundations which will serve as experience for WM-ES in the future. For that, we are also counting on our experience as wikipedians, editors and readers, which allows us to know what we can achieve and what we want to see offered by the projects from the GLAM world, in particular in Spain. And we can be optimistic after the first contacts with the museum. -jem- (talk) 11:34, 15 May 2015 (UTC)
(Spanish) Aparte de la experiencia de Laura, que ella ha detallado suficientemente, me gustaría añadir que Wikimedia España lleva pocos años funcionando y solo ahora tenemos la suficiente organización interna y medios humanos adecuados para empezar a profundizar en estas colaboraciones GLAM, y por eso hemos lanzado los proyectos GLAMing Madrid y este, que son los primeros de su tipo. España tiene sus particularidades, a las que deberemos adaptarnos, y las instituciones tienen que conocer todavía las posibilidades que ofrecen colaboraciones como estas, por lo que «todo es nuevo» y no se trata de, ni es posible, partir de experiencias previas en nuestro país (aunque tendremos en cuenta las de otros países), sino de sentar las bases que servirán como experiencia para WM-ES en el futuro. Para eso contamos también con nuestra experiencia como wikipedistas, editores y lectores, que nos permite saber lo que podemos conseguir y lo que queremos ver ofrecido por los proyectos desde el mundo GLAM, en particular en España. Y podemos ser optimistas después de los primeros contactos con el museo. -jem- (talk) 11:34, 15 May 2015 (UTC)

Measures of success/ plans
I don't doubt your foreseen goals, and tehy are imporessive but

  • A- "Training talks to the museum specialists: 20 " are you doing 20 trainign sessions or are your trainign 20 people ?
  • B- "New contributors: 100" that is not what i would expect : you might have 50 or 500 participants, the real mesaure of success will be if 10 or even 5 of them will continue to edit more then 5x a month and conitnue to do so for more then 2 months , it wil be a huge succes if more then 2 of the 100 particiapnt will do 5 edits amonth every month for a year
  • Wikipedia contributions: 100 articles created, 50 improved , Commons images: 400 uploaded for the WiR and Glam donation that is fine but i woudl like to see that teh coomons images get the well categorised, a lots of meta data, and that each of them is appended to more then 1 article ... thoat woudl be a good measure of succes

--DerekvG (talk) 19:29, 19 May 2015 (UTC)

(English) Hi, DerekvG.
A- I'll make 20 training sessions. There are 5 museum staff people to train.
B- I think that a contributor who stays in is far more important than 500 participants in an edit-a-thon, but we can't measure whether the contributor stays or not. I'll do my best to make the participants of the projects fall in love.
C- I want the images to be well categorized in Commons, too, and because of a suggestion of one of our members in Wikimedia Spain, contributor in Commons, I'm making a diagram with the ideal categories of this project. Furthermore, the same member has suggested me to make a preliminary report. So, I'm making it, and it contains: the state of the articles in Wikipedia, whether they have images or not, whether they have references or not, whether they have infobox or not, whether they have wiki format or categories, whether they have item in Wikidata; the list of missing articles in Wikipedia, number of images in Commons, missing items in Wikidata, etc. I made a draft to submit this grant request and now I'm expanding it. Greetings, Laura Fiorucci (talk) 18:49, 21 May 2015 (UTC)
(Spanish) Hola, DerekvG.
A- Haré 20 sesiones de entrenamiento. Son 5 los especialistas del Museo a entrenar.
B- Creo que es mucho más importante un editor que se quede, que 500 participantes en un editatón, pero no podemos medir si el editor se queda o no. Haré lo mejor para enamorar a los participantes de los proyectos.
C- Yo también quiero que estén bien categorizadas las imágenes en Commons, y por una sugerencia de uno de nuestros socios en Wikimedia España, editor de Commons, estoy haciendo un diagrama con las categorías ideales de este proyecto. Además, este mismo socio me ha sugerido que haga un informe preliminar. Así que estoy haciéndolo, y contiene: el estado de los artículos en Wikipedia, si tienen imágenes o no, si tienen referencias o no, si tienen ficha o no, si están wikificados y categorizados, si tienen elemento en Wikidata; lista de artículos faltantes en Wikipedia; cantidad de imágenes en Commons, elementos faltantes en Wikidata, etc. Hice un boceto para poder presentar esta solicitud de grant y ahora lo estoy ampliando. Saludos, Laura Fiorucci (talk) 18:49, 21 May 2015 (UTC)

WiR no WiREdit

Hi Laura, I really suggest to use the definition of project manager when the program becomes huge and various like yours. In my opinion a WiR does a limited set of activities and is more focused to the GLAM, in this case you are doing activities internally to the GLAM and some others targeted to the public. Regards. --Ilario (talk) 10:03, 22 May 2015 (UTC)

(English) Yes, Ilario, you're right. What we want to do is wider then the usual scope of a wikipedian in residence; we want to involve outside people with what's going on in the museum through Wikimedia Spain, and develop other activities proper to the association, and in order to that we count on other members which will get involved, among other aspects. We'll make the change you're suggesting to make it clearer. Laura Fiorucci (talk) 17:07, 22 May 2015 (UTC)
(Spanish) Sí, Ilario, tienes razón. Lo que queremos hacer es algo más amplio que el ámbito habitual de un wikipedista en residencia; queremos involucrar a las personas de fuera con lo que sucede en el museo a través de Wikimedia España, y realizar otras actividades propias de la asociación, para lo que contamos con otros socios que se implicarán, entre otros aspectos. Haremos el cambio que nos sugieres para que quede más claro. Laura Fiorucci (talk) 17:07, 22 May 2015 (UTC)

One tiny suggestionEdit

Hi, I don't have anything to comment, really. I strongly supported above... I only offer one thing: If there should be 2 blog posts, I suggest that the post will be co-written by the WiR and someone from the museum, that can share the partner's view on the results. I think it will be refreshing for people to read that ;) Alleycat80 (talk) 01:21, 5 June 2015 (UTC)

(English) Alleycat80: Yes, thank you! It's a great idea. Laura Fiorucci (talk) 08:44, 10 June 2015 (UTC)
(Spanish) Alleycat80: ¡Sí, gracias! Es una estupenda idea. Laura Fiorucci (talk) 08:44, 10 June 2015 (UTC)
You're welcome / De nada, Laura ;) Alleycat80 (talk) 09:08, 10 June 2015 (UTC)

Community commentsEdit

Tony1 comments/questionsEdit

  1. I generally support this application.
  2. Could we have basic details about the editathons, which WMF experience shows are hard to make impactful unless the participants are carefully selected (looks good here) and the same participants experience a series of the events (is this the case?). Do you have any experience at running these types of events? Will there be prepared exercises, including hard-copy examples of source material to quote and reference? How long will each event be? How will they be structured? Will there be a follow-up assessment of participants' onwiki activity after, say, three and six months? Will uploading to Commons and the completion of description pages and categorisation there be part of the exercise?
  3. Activities for children: if this is for child-minding and there will be sufficient demand, I have no objection; but if it's to attract child participants per se, why? Children don't usually edit Wikipedia.
  4. Fit with strategy section, as usual, a total waste of your and our time (memo to staff). It should be integrated into "Impact", where the instructions should advise that the relevant strategies should be mentioned. Let's hope this part of the process can be rationalised some time soon.
  5. Measures of success: please don't insert the conducting of your planned activities as a measure of success. Memo to staff – could this be built into the instructions, please? And just sending out a survey is not itself a measure of success: that lies in the data you'll elicit from the survey, and several benchmarks should be stated (that is, you should have a good idea of what questions you'll ask—WMF's evaluation team should help with this kind of thing, before the application is live.
  6. I'm very concerned about the poor prospects for interent connection in the building; and I'm surprised that this hasn't been resolved beforehand.
  7. The printing costs seem high. Don't you just do it on a photocopier? Tony (talk) 06:46, 31 May 2015 (UTC)
(English) Hi, Tony. I've seen your message. I'm sorry for my delay in answering; I've been quite busy these days. I'm already working on the answer and I'll write it here as soon as possible. Apologies and greetings, Laura Fiorucci (talk) 12:43, 9 June 2015 (UTC)
(Spanish) Hola, Tony, he visto tu mensaje. Lamento la tardanza en responder; pero he estado bastante ocupada estos días. Estoy redactando la respuesta y la escribiré a la brevedad. Disculpa y saludos, Laura Fiorucci (talk) 12:43, 9 June 2015 (UTC)

(English) Hi, Tony.

First of all and again, I want to apologize for the delay in answering; last week I was at a congress, and I don't have Internet connection at home on weekends, for now.

2. Yes, it's difficult to get impact at the editathons, but we must persist. The idea is to have different people in each one of the five editathons, to reach a more diverse public. I have experience in this kind of events and in cultural events in general. Editathons must have three parts, and some of the activities of each one are:

  • Preproduction: we organize that chairs, desks, wifi, snacks and promotional material are available, we set up the list of articles on which we'll work and the bibliographic material that will serve as support for the editors, and we also make an outreach campaign for new editors, and invitation for editors in the area.
  • The event: it consists of visit to the museum related to the chosen theme, which will be guided by the museum specialists, plus introductory talk about how to edit, activation of the visual editor, and guiding throughout the event. At the end, delivery of certificates of attendance and informative materials about the Wikimedia projects.
  • Postproduction (until 30 days): Review of the editions of each participant, online help for them to improve their articles, compilation of statistics of the event, and acknowledgement for the participation in the event in the users' talk page and in the personal emails (if they are available).

Each event will last four and a half hours, with this general structure: guided visit with the museum specialists, editing workshop and editathon. I don't have planned such a long tracking: do you recommend it? The upload of images to Commons, with everything it implies, will be done by the Museum before the editathon, in order for the users to have quality images for the articles by then.

3. The activities for children: we have had very nice experiences with 9 to 12-year-old children during the Scientific Editathon 2014. Some of them behaved in a great way, and with a lot of commitment in what they do. Our activity has a mixed purpose; as you'll know, children can't stay focused in just one activity for a long time, and together with the Museum and with the support of their education department, we have developed an activity which focuses on artistic creation in another room of the Museum, and then a little editing in the Sandbox. I think that if we teach them what Wikipedia is, they'll vandalize less.

5. I've used the guide provided by the Foundation to answer that section. The survey: we have to be flexible about the questions, because many factors can influence. Overall, the questions concern basic data about comprehension and use of the edit tools, intention to keep on editing, attractiveness of the theme, excessive or not duration of the sessions, and attention by the staff.

6. Spanish cultural institutions have had their budgets decreased because of the european crisis; they have cut down or ceased investments in what they consider superfluous, and they just have funds for the development of exhibits and the maintenance of the works. In an old building, where walls are over a meter thick, it's very difficult and quite expensive to install wifi access; companies charge about one thousand euros for each event. That's why we have figured out as you can see in the grant request.

7. We start with the cheapest prize in Valladolid for colour photocopies. Wikimedia Spain has never requested a start-up grant; we operate as real volunteers: someone prints for us in his house, someone gives us a gift, someone does a favour by... we have no printer. The office supplies I use in our headquarters were bought by me. The headquarters are located in a coworking space which the City Council allows us to use for free and that we share with another 20 collectives or entrepreneurs. The 700 euros amount doesn't include just printings; other concepts are stated, and it will last four months.

Greetings and thanks, Laura Fiorucci (talk) 08:37, 10 June 2015 (UTC)

(Spanish) Hola, Tony.

Ante todo y de nuevo, quiero disculparme por la tardanza en responder; la semana pasada estuve en un congreso, y los fines de semana no tengo Internet en casa, por ahora.

2. Sí, es difícil el impacto en los editatones, pero hay que persistir. La idea es que vengan personas diferentes a cada uno de los cinco editatones, para llegar a un público más diverso. Tengo experiencia en este tipo de eventos y en eventos culturales en general. Los editatones deben tener tres partes, y algunas de las actividades en cada una son:

  • Preproducción: se organiza que haya sillas, mesas, wifi, refrigerios y material de promoción, se prepara la lista de artículos sobre los que se trabajará y el material bibliográfico que servirá de apoyo a los editores, y también se hace la campaña de difusión para los nuevos editores e invitación a los editores de la zona.
  • El evento: consta de visita al museo relacionada con el tema elegido, que será guiada por los especialistas del museo, más charla introductoria sobre cómo editar, activación del editor visual y guía durante todo el evento. Al final, entrega de certificados de asistencia y de material de promoción de los proyectos Wikimedia.
  • Posproducción (hasta 30 días): Revisión de las ediciones de todos los inscritos, ayuda en línea para que mejoren sus artículos, recopilación de estadísticas del evento, y agradecimiento por la participación en el evento en la página de discusión de los usuarios y en los emails personales (si disponemos de ellos).

Cada evento durará cuatro horas y media, con esta estructura general: visita guiada con los especialistas del museo, taller de edición y editatón. No me he planteado el seguimiento en tan largo tiempo; ¿lo aconsejas? La subida de imágenes a Commons, con todo lo que implica, la hará el Museo antes del editatón, para que los usuarios ya dispongan de imágenes de calidad para los artículos.

3. Las actividades infantiles: hemos tenido muy bonitas experiencias con niños de entre 9 y 12 años, durante el Wikimaratón Científico 2014. Algunos se portaron de manera estupenda, y con mucho compromiso con lo que hacen. La idea de nuestra actividad es mixta; como sabrás, los niños no pueden mantenerse concentrados en una sola actividad por mucho tiempo, y junto al Museo y con el apoyo de su departamento de educación, hemos ideado una actividad que se centra en creación artística en otra sala del Museo y posteriormente un poco de edición en la zona de Taller. Creo que si les enseñamos lo que es Wikipedia, vandalizarán menos.

5. He usado la guía que proporciona la Fundación para responder esa sección. La encuesta: hay que ser flexible con las preguntas, porque influyen muchos factores. En líneas generales, se preguntan datos básicos sobre comprensión y uso de las herramientas de edición, intención de seguir editando, atracción del tema, duración excesiva o no de las jornadas, y atención del personal.

6. Las instituciones culturales españolas han visto mermados sus presupuestos por la crisis europea; han recortado o dejado de invertir en lo que consideran superfluo, y solo tienen fondos para la realización de exposiciones y el mantenimiento de las obras. En un edificio antiguo, donde las paredes superan el metro de grosor, es muy difícil y bastante costoso poner wifi; las compañías cobran unos mil euros por evento. Por eso hemos resuelto como puede verse en la petición de grant.

7. Partimos del precio más económico que hay en Valladolid para fotocopias en color. Wikimedia España nunca ha pedido un grant de inicio; funcionamos como voluntarios de verdad: alguien nos imprime algo en su casa, nos regalan cosas, nos hacen el favor de... no tenemos impresora. Los materiales de oficina que uso en la sede los he comprado yo. La sede está en un espacio de coworking que nos cede gratis el Ayuntamiento y que compartimos con otros 20 colectivos o emprendedores más. El monto de 700 euros no incluye solo impresiones; se indican otros conceptos, y serán cuatro meses.

Saludos y gracias, Laura Fiorucci (talk) 08:37, 10 June 2015 (UTC)

Tony rejoinder

  • 2. "We must persist ... The idea is to have different people in each one of the five editathons, to reach a more diverse public." – I'm concerned that this is a low-impact way of doing it, aiming for wide, superficial exposure, rather than focusing on people who are likely to become part of the es.WP community (editor retention and recruitment is one of our crises). The experience is that unless special conditions apply, the take-up of even medium-term editors is very low. How much skill acquisition can there be in one session? Also, I plead with you not to make it based on article creation. We do not need new editors to create articles (which they typically leave as stubs), but to learn how to improve existing articles. So, I'd like to hear what skills you will address in the sessions, in what order, and using what methods? Running an effective editathon is not easy (and we really do need a learning pattern on it). BUT, your post-production follow-ups do sound good – it's just that "introductory talk about how to edit" isn't giving me confidence that learning how to reference and how to avoid plagiarism are going to be at issue. However, it may be that your editathons will concentrate mainly on uploading photographs and writing the description pages.
  • 3. Children: OK, sounds good. Interested to read your in-depth report on it after the event.
  • 5. Like "Fit to strategy", "Measures of success" is really a dialogue between me and the staff. I want FtS removed (that is, relocated and integrated elsewhere) as a time-wasting section that no reviewer takes seriously. And I want MoS instructions to explicitly countenance against the "we will do part 1 of the activity", etc, as things I could write in without knowing a thing about the project; just copy in the activities, change the grammar. Waste of time.
  • 6. Connectivity: that might explain the situation, but perhaps I'm misunderstanding, and your "edithons" are not of the usual type, and will not require participants to conduct online work/exercises during the event.
  • 7. OK, but try to keep the printing costs down. We are, after all, a quintessentially online organisation, and so are our target participants, we presume, or they're on no use to us.

Thanks for your replies. Tony (talk) 07:57, 17 June 2015 (UTC)

(English) Hi, Tony.
2. In every editathon I have taken part in, we have created a list of articles to be improved or created. There are very brave new editors which have created full articles like this one or this one, or have made translations like this one. Other editors have just fixed little things, and others make their work in the sandbox, and then we help them to leave it ready and move it to the main space. Some of these editors have continued editing after the event, some have attended to other editathons, and some haven't shown up again. I see editathons as a way to bring people closer to the projects, that's why we try that the experience is nice and customized, so those users get back.
In the introductory talk we explain the five pillars, which is the base. Then we speak about:
  • Layout of an article
    • Lead section: It must contain enough information for a reader to be able, in one or two paragraphs, to obtain a general view of the subject matter.
    • Body: development of the article with sections, depending on the length of it; plagiarism and our licences.
    • References: How and why to insert them.
    • External links
    • Categories
(The visual editor has helped a lot to reduce the impact with the system)
All of this is explained at the same time that, in a screen and in real time, we show examples on Wikipedia itself.
  • Visual editor activation
    • Fast explanation about the features of the editor. If we have to explain a lot the use of the Visual Editor, it means that the tool has failed to its purpose; it has been created to be intuitive, so we only provide a short explanation.
Throughout the event, we monitor each editor continuosly. Yes, it's an exhausting work, but we have done it every time. Some of these new editors even write us afterwards to request help or more information. Our editathons are productive, as you can see here; -jem- has even created our own metrics system, which are updated each ten minutes during the journey and then four times a day for thirty days (it can also be seen in the pages of the editathons).
For each editathon, we send press releases and the supporting institution does it too; sometimes, the newspapers reflect it in a massive way, like in the Editathon for the scientific women's visibility in Wikipedia, and we put all of the links in the Impact in the media section.
6. Surely I didn't explain well: In the grant request I have included the money to rent wifi because the Museum hasn't got any, and won't have as long as Spain keeps on cutting down the budget to the institution. It isn't possible to make a traditional editathon without wifi. I've searched for some estimates and this wifi will only be used for the editathons planned for this grant and for the ones run by Wikimedia Spain; it is explained in the grant. Nevertheless, per Alex Wang's request, I'll explain in the grant page ("additional sources of funding") what I'm looking for as alternatives.
Greetings and thanks, Laura Fiorucci (talk) 17:56, 19 June 2015 (UTC)
(Spanish)Hola, Tony
2. En todos los editatones en los que he participado hemos creado una lista de artículos a mejorar o crear. Hay nuevos editores nuevos muy valientes que han creado artículos completos como este o este, o que han hecho traducciones como esta. Otros editores solo han arreglado pequeñas cosas, y otros hacen su trabajo en el taller, y después los ayudamos a dejarlo listo y pasarlo al espacio principal. Algunos de estos editores han seguido editando después del evento, otros han asistido a otros editatones, a algunos no los hemos visto más. Yo veo los editatones como una manera de acercar a la gente a los proyectos, por eso tratamos de que la experiencia sea agradable y personalizada, para tener a esos usuarios de vuelta.
En la charla introductoria se explican los 5 pilares, que es la base. Luego se habla de:
  • Estructura de un artículo
    • Entradilla: debe contener suficiente información como para que un lector pueda, en uno o dos párrafos, hacerse una idea general del tema tratado.
    • Cuerpo: desarrollo del artículo con secciones, dependiendo de la longitud de este; el plagio, nuestras licencias.
    • Referencias: cómo y por qué colocarlas
    • Enlaces externos
    • Categorías
(El editor visual ha ayudado mucho a que el choque con el sistema sea menor)
Todo esto se explica al mismo tiempo que, en una pantalla y en tiempo real, se muestran ejemplos en la misma Wikipedia.
  • Activación del editor visual
    • Explicación rápida de las funciones del editor. Si tuviéramos que explicar mucho el uso del Editor Visual, es que la herramienta ha sido un fracaso y no sirve; está creada para que sea intuitiva, y por eso solo damos una explicación corta.
Durante todo el desarrollo del evento, se supervisa constantemente a cada editor. Sí, es un trabajo agotador, pero lo hemos hecho todas las veces. Alguno de estos nuevos editores incluso nos escriben posteriormente para solicitar ayuda o más información. Nuestros editatones son productivos, como puede verse acá; -jem- incluso ha creado nuestro propio sistema de métricas, que son actualizadas cada diez minutos durante la jornada y luego cuatro veces al día durante treinta días (también puede verse en las páginas de los editatones).
Para cada editatón enviamos notas de prensa y la institución que nos apoya también; algunas veces los periódicos se hacen eco de manera masiva, como en el Editatón por la visibilidad de las científicas en Wikipedia, y colocamos todos los enlaces en la sección Repercusión en los medios.
6. Seguramente no me expliqué bien: he solicitado en la petición de grant el dinero para alquilar wifi porque el Museo no tiene y no la tendrá mientras el estado español siga recortando presupuesto a la institución. No se puede hacer un editatón tradicional sin wifi. He buscado varios presupuestos y esta wifi solo será usada para los editatones planificados para este grant y para los que haga Wikimedia España; está explicado en el grant. De todas maneras, a petición de Alex Wang, explicaré en la página del grant ("additional sources of funding") lo que estoy buscando como alternativas.
Saludos, Laura Fiorucci (talk) 17:56, 19 June 2015 (UTC)

WMF commentsEdit

Hi Laura. Thank you very much for this detailed and well-planned grant proposal. We are especially appreciative that you have taken the time and effort to write the proposal and answer questions in Spanish and English. We know this takes time, but it is a real benefit to your community. We also appreciate that there is significant evidence of community notification and support. While a number of our questions were answered in the discussion above, we have the remaining comments/questions and look forward to your response.

  1. We've found that often times WiR's spend time training GLAM staff, but those staff do not integrate Wikimedia-related activities into their workstreams, or continue to either train others or hold events, after the residency is over. We do think there is a benefit for training staff if there is al longer-term plan by the institution to utilize the new skills of the trained staff members. It is also important that there is a method for picking the staff members to train. Do you know how the specialists have been identified and if the museum has a strategy for integrating Wikimedia activities after your project is over? If not, we'd like you to discuss this with them.
  2. As Tony mentioned above, we've seen single-session editathons targeted at the general public do not have much impact in terms of content creation or editor recruitment/engagement. We're happy to see that a couple of your planned editathons are focused on engaging content experts or enthusiasts in the art history field. In terms of the general public, it is best to plan events where they come repeatedly to work on developing their wiki skills over a period of time. We are less concerned with the number of new users signed up and more concerned with retaining new users (even if just a few from each event). We ask grantees to track participants' editing behavior with the Wikimetrics. If you are not familiar with Wikimetrics, a couple of WMES board members have had training with the tool and our staff can also provide additional training.
  3. Generally, we do not fund the production of QR plaques as they are mainly for the benefit of the GLAM institution. We are supportive of content creation around QR codes.
  4. I understand that you are still communicating with the museum and others about in-kind donations of food, printing, etc. It is helpful to include that info in the grant request itself under "additional sources of revenue", even if it has not yet been secured.
  5. How many people are you expecting per editathon? Knowing this will help us better assess the appropriateness of your metrics, especially around content.

Thanks again for this high-quality request. Cheers, Alex Wang (WMF) (talk) 22:20, 16 June 2015 (UTC)

♪Karthik♫, DerekvG, Dry Martini, Ilario, Polimerek, Alleycat80, Danny B., Packa, Alex Wang (WMF):
(English) Hi. I regret to have to write this. As you probably know, I'm from Venezuela. I came to Spain with a volunteer visa for 6 months, to collaborate with Wikimedia Spain, and I thought it could be renewed without special problems, but they have asked me documents that I just can get in Venezuela; I've been trying until now, but I must get back to my country. The Museum and WM-ES already know this, and they all hope I can come back, but for the moment it will depend on WMF and WM-ES what should be done about this grant request, as I don't know when or if I can get back in Spain to make the project (any help or ideas would be appreciated). Greetings and sorry for the disturbing. Laura Fiorucci (talk) 11:27, 17 June 2015 (UTC)
(Spanish) Hola. Lamento tener que escribir esto. Como seguramente saben, soy venezolana. Vine a España con un visado de voluntariado de seis meses para colaborar con Wikimedia España, y creí que podría renovarla sin mayores problemas, pero me han pedido documentos que solo puedo conseguir en Venezuela; lo he estado intentando hasta ahora, pero debo regresar a mi país. El Museo y WM-ES ya lo saben, y todos esperan que pueda regresar, pero por ahora dependerá de la Fundación Wikimedia y de WM-ES lo que deba hacerse respecto a esta petición de grant, ya que no sé cuándo o si podré regresar a España para realizar el proyecto (cualquier ayuda o ideas serán bienvenidas). Saludos y disculpen las molestias. Laura Fiorucci (talk) 11:27, 17 June 2015 (UTC)

(English) Hi, Alex Wang (WMF)

We have the advantage that the director of the Museum is a Wikipedia fan and both she and her husband are occasional editors. The audiovisual manager of the Museum is also editor and occasional Commons user; we were talking about licences and it seems he is clear about that. The other staff members of the Museum which will be trained are very excited about the project. They are art specialists, museum curators; I've spoken with them and they understand the importance of what we're going to carry out, as well as they wish that whatever appears in Wikipedia related to the Museum is as close as possible to the bibliographic sources available. They are specialists in their area.

About the editathons we've run, I can say I'm quite happy, although everything can be improved. The statistics of our last editathons can be seen:

  • I Wikimarathon for the contemporary artists' visibility: Statistics
  • Editathon French Way of St. James in Aragon: Statistics
  • Editathon for the scientific women's visibility in Wikipedia: Statistics
  • Editathon International Women's Day 2015: Statistics.

In the previous thread, I have explained Tony some examples we have about the editions of the users participating in our events (see point 2 of my answer to Tony).

I understand about QR codes, I won't use the budget for that. I'll speak with the Museum in order for them to decide if they want to fund that.

About "additional sources of revenue", I'll do it as soon as possible.

In the editathons, we have accepted two ways almost always: on-site and on-line. Normally, on-site new editors attend, about 15 or 20 per editathon on average. In the on-line edition we have had 10 editors on average, with the advantage of them being experienced editors. Also, we leave the event open on-line for 30 days, in order for the registered participants to keep on editing (the organizers do weekly monitoring of all their editions). As I wrote above, you can see our statistics, analize them and give us your impressions to improve them; it's always appreciated.

Greetings, Laura Fiorucci (talk) 18:03, 19 June 2015 (UTC)

(Spanish) Hola, Alex

Contamos con la ventaja de que la directora del Museo es fan de Wikipedia y tanto ella como su esposo son editores ocasionales. También el encargado de audiovisuales del Museo es editor y usuario ocasional de Commons; estuvimos hablando de licencias y parece que lo tiene claro. Los otros miembros del personal del Museo que serán capacitados están muy ilusionados con el proyecto. Son especialistas en arte, conservadores del museo; he conversado con ellos y entienden la importancia de lo que vamos a realizar, así como desean que lo que aparezca en Wikipedia relacionado con el Museo sea lo más cercano a las fuentes bibliográficas disponibles. Son especialistas en su área.

Sobre los editatones que hemos realizado, puedo decir que estoy bastante contenta, aunque todo puede ser mejorado. Se pueden ver las estadísticas de nuestros últimos editatones:

  • I Wikimaratón por la visibilidad de los artistas contemporáneos: Estadísticas
  • Editatón Camino de Santiago francés en Aragón: Estadísticas
  • Editatón por la visibilidad de las científicas en Wikipedia: Estadísticas
  • Editatón Día Internacional de la Mujer 2015: Estadísticas

Le he explicado arriba a Tony algunos ejemplos que tenemos sobre las ediciones de los usuarios que han participado en nuestros eventos. (Ver punto 2 de mi respuesta a Tony)

Comprendo lo de los QR, no usaré el presupuesto para eso. Hablaré con el Museo para que ellos decidan si quieren financiarlo.

Sobre "additional sources of revenue", lo haré lo más pronto posible.

En los editatones, casi siempre hemos aceptado dos formas: edición presencial y a distancia. Generalmente a la presencial vienen editores novatos, un promedio de 15 o 20 por editatón. En la edición a distancia hemos tenido un promedio de 10 editores, con la ventaja de que son editores de trayectoria. También, el evento lo dejamos abierto en línea durante 30 días, para que los inscritos puedan seguir editando (los organizadores hacemos seguimiento semanal de todas las ediciones). Como escribí arriba, pueden ver nuestras estadísticas, analizarlas y darnos sus impresiones para mejorarlas; siempre se agradece.

Saludos, Laura Fiorucci (talk) 18:03, 19 June 2015 (UTC)

Hi Laura Fiorucci. We would like to move forward with this project, but it obviously depends on your visa situation. I recommend that for now we withdraw the application. If you are able to obtain a visa or someone else from WMES wants to take over implementing the project, we can re-open the request and move quickly with a decision. Best, Alex Wang (WMF) (talk) 03:12, 27 June 2015 (UTC)
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