Fundraising 2012/Translation/Community review - fr

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Reference texts

For readibility sake, i'm pasting here the texts we're talking about, otherwise it's just too complicated. (please do not correct blatent mistakes here but through the translation tool, these are here only as a reference for comments.) notafish }<';> 08:26, 26 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

(OBT)Chers lecteurs et lectrices de Wikipédia : Nous sommes une petite association à but non lucratif qui gère le 5ème site internet le plus consulté du monde. Nous n'avons que 150 employés, mais nous rendons service à 450 millions d'utilisateurs, et nous avons des charges, comme n'importe quel autre site important : serveurs, énergie, emprunts, développement et salaires. Wikipédia est unique. C'est comme une bibliothèque ou un espace vert public. C'est un temple du savoir, un lieu que chacun peut visiter pour réfléchir et apprendre. Afin de protéger notre indépendance, nous n'aurons jamais recours à la publicité. Nous ne sommes pas non plus financés par un quelconque gouvernement. Nous fonctionnons grâce aux dons, d'un montant moyen de €30. Si chaque personne lisant ce texte faisait un don équivalent au prix d'un café, notre collecte de fonds serait terminée en une heure. Si Wikipédia vous est utile, prenez une minute de votre temps pour permettre de perpétuer cette institution une année de plus. Aidez-nous à oublier la collecte de fonds et revenez à Wikipédia. Merci.
(JWT)En fondant Wikipédia, j’aurais pu créer une entreprise lucrative et y placer des espaces publicitaires, mais j’ai décidé d’en faire quelque chose de différent. Le commerce n'est pas une mauvaise chose en soi. La publicité n'est pas diabolique. Mais cela n’a pas sa place ici. Pas sur Wikipédia. — Wikipedia Founder, Jimmy Wales
(FOOT)Nous nous efforçons de faciliter les dons des personnes de tous les pays. Veuillez nous faire savoir comment nous pourrions rendre cela encore plus facile pour vous. Envoyez vos suggestions à : problemsdonating@wikimedia.org. Les paiements mensuels seront débités par la Fondation Wikimedia jusqu'à ce que vous nous demandiez de les arrêter.

Comments

For suggested changes to other texts in the banner or any other general comments please leave comments below

Comments ~~~~
My remarks : "espace vert public" should be replace by "parc public" (even if I'm not sure to understand the real meaning, "espace vert public" is never used in french normal speaking)
"5ème", according to fr.wiki recommmandations should be written "5^e" (or "5e")
The sentence "Nous n'avons que 150 employés, mais ..." is too long. It should be splitted in 2 sentences.
I would replace the sentence "Nous ne sommes pas non plus financés par un quelconque gouvernement. Nous fonctionnons grâce aux dons, d'un montant moyen de €30. " is quite strange because of "non plus". It's not written before "nous ne somme pas financés par la publicité" but "nous n'aurons jamais recours à la publicité". "Nous ne recevons aucune subvention d'aucun gouvernement." is better
"Aidez-nous à oublier la collecte de fonds et revenez à Wikipédia." This sentence seem strange. Maybe "Aidez-nous à oublier la collecte de fonds et revenir à Wikipédia." would be better.

Regards --Hercule (talk) 07:56, 26 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I will refer to the orange banner text as OBT and the Jimmy text as JWT.

(OBT)According to French (France) standards at least, the Wikimedia Foundation is _not_ a "petite association à but non lucratif". It's huge, it's working with millions, it has nothing to do with the "petite" association around the corner, which is what the translation "petite association" suggests. I would strongly suggest getting rid of the "petite", and consider using the word "Fondation" (although it's still not accurate). Maybe "Organisation à but non lucratif" might work. notafish }<';> 08:27, 26 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]
(OBT & JWT) Altogether the texts are simply awkward, strange, they feel translated. I would strongly suggest having a French native speaker completely rewrite them (as well as get them "approved" by cultural differentiated French speakers depending where you intend to run the banners (Québec ? Belgium ? Switzerland? Others?), giving them pointers as to the important points you want to see appear. My experience is that it is super duper hard to translate a text for such messaging. It just does not work. notafish }<';> 08:33, 26 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Otherwise everything Hercule says stands. notafish }<';> 08:33, 26 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Strongly agree with notafish. I tried to enhance the message (including also some Hercule's suggestions which seemed good to me) through the translation tool, but i'm very far from satisfaction. I would qualify the result as "better than nothing"... It's a very heavy text, with no formatting, nor illustration. It is likely to have a moderate impact.
I don't know exactly what "Please help us forget fundraising and get back to Wikipedia" means. Who gets back to Wikipedia? You or the donor?
For next editions, i suggest you to launch contests or workshops for each country/language to create attractive banners. Even not displaying any third-part ad, doesn't mean we can't make some for Wikipedia.

Sy (talk) 09:01, 26 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Sy, for what it's worth, I think the format has been worked upon and tried and it is probably the best format. Whether we "like" it or not is irrelevant here. I don't think we need to rework the format, or even go for a contest, or make it attractive, as long as it works (and believe me, it does, and people give.). But the translation is really poor. And I suck at both messaging and translation, so I can't do much about it ;). notafish }<';> 09:41, 26 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

My take on it :

Chers lecteurs, cher lectrices : la Fondation Wikimedia, qui gère Wikipédia, est une association à but non lucratif. Nous gérons le 5ième site internet le plus consulté du monde. Nous ne sommes que 150 personnes, employés et volontaires, mais nous rendons service à 450.000.000 d'utilisateurs quotidiennement. Comme n'importe quelle association et n'importe quel site web important, nous avons des charges : serveurs, énergie, emprunts, développement et salaires.

Wikipédia est unique. C'est à la fois une bibliothèque, un parc public, un temple du savoir, un lieu que chacun peut visiter pour réfléchir et apprendre. Mais plus que cela, c'est votre espace, votre savoir.

Afin de protéger notre indépendance, nous n'aurons jamais recours à la publicité. Nous ne sommes pas non plus financés par un quelconque gouvernement. Nous fonctionnons grâce aux dons, d'un montant moyen de €30. Si chaque personne en train de lire ce texte faisait un don équivalent au prix d'un café, notre collecte de fonds pour l'annéee serait terminée en une heure.

Alors, si Wikipédia vous est utile, prenez une minute de votre temps, et aidez-nous à vivre une année de plus !

For what it may be useful... you can still re-add the 'thank you' at the end. And also, all of the remarks above still apply (especially cross-cultural wording check). Zeugma fr (talk) 09:33, 26 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

One small advice : in multiple language, including but not only in french, it is useful to put adverbs to link different part of your discussion (e.g. "Afin", "Alors"...). Using a translation tool based on pre-made sentences or argument blocks may not be a good idea... wording and argumentation differs between cultures and languages. My 2-cents. Zeugma fr (talk) 09:41, 26 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Here are my suggestions :

Change « mais nous rendons service à 450 millions d'utilisateurs » by « mais nous rendons service à environ 450 millions d'utilisateurs par mois »,
Change « Wikipedia Founder, Jimmy Wales » by « Jimmy Wales, co-fondateur de Wikipédia »,
I don't think that « Fondation Wikimedia » is commonly used by the French community. I would prefer « Wikimedia Foundation ».
This sentence « Les paiements mensuels seront débités par la Fondation Wikimedia jusqu'à ce que vous nous demandiez de les arrêter. » is strange because there's no place in this message talking about monthly payments. I think that it must be precised somewhere. Simon Villeneuve 14:00, 26 March 2013 (UTC)

Bernard Hugonnet

I may have been a bit too fast and posted directly on translate extension

In France, contribution to government "recognized" non-profit organization, allow contributor to be eligible for tax reduction too. If french committee is such an organization it could be useful to publish a link to this committee and to allow contributor to get a certificate. This may apply to other countries.

references

--Bh28 (talk) 15:21, 26 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Isayel (talk) 15:28, 26 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

your sentence "Si Wikipédia vous est utile, prenez une minute de votre temps pour permettre de perpétuer cette institution une année de plus."

my suggested sentence : "Si Wikipédia vous est utile, prenez une minute de votre temps pour perpétuer cette institution une année de plus."

Some points, in order:
- I agree that « une petite association » sounds downright wrong; « un organisme » or even just « l'organisme » would be better.
- « des charges » is not idiomatic in all of the francophonie; « des dépenses » would be more neutral.
- I would suggest « Afin de protéger notre indépendance, nous n'aurons jamais recours à la publicité ni au financement par un gouvernement. » to be a terser and more fluid restatement of the other two sentences.
- Jimmy's message sounds a bit train-of-thought as written, but that might be in the original. Can you point me to it for comparison?
MPelletier (WMF) (talk) 17:09, 26 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Hi. First I would have changed €30 to 30 €. Then, I don't understand the whole sentence Aidez-nous à oublier la collecte de fonds et revenez à Wikipédia, and I think it would be better to remove it. Generally, sentences are too short and I would lower the number of sentences. Regards, -- Quentinv57 ^(talk) 17:54, 26 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I agree with Quentinv57, French generally supports longer and more complete sentences than English and that should be taken in account. Also, I agree with a suggestion made earlier that we should review the text according to the main French spoken areas (such as France, Québec, Belgium, Switzerland, Africa and sorry for those I forget) to produce a text that will be understandable for everyone without any risk of being misled by some regional differences. For the rest, other people have made useful corrections, thanks to them! - Lekemok (Komz ganin / Talk to me) 22:20, 26 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

There should be no problem. At least not in Quebec. So, I don't feel the need to take in account all the other regions of the Francophonie. As long as the text respects the rules of the French language and the vocabulary is appropriate, there's no problem. Ĉiuĵaŭde (talk) 13:49, 20 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Quelques petites corrections pourraient être apportées :
- "non lucratif" (§ 1 & 13) est un adjectif et ne prend pas de trait d'union (voir par exemple fr:Association à but non lucratif) ;
- deux virgules superflues (§ 5 & 10) devraient être supprimées ;
- § 6 : il me semble que le style correct est "si chaque personne qui lit [...] donnait [...]"

"Peccadilles" me direz-vous. Et vous aurez bien raison. :D Papatt (talk) 00:51, 27 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Everything seems almost OK to me right now. Le texte me semble à peu près correct. Ĉiuĵaŭde (talk) 13:45, 20 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Banners for which country?

I come back to notafish remark, in switzerland and france displayed banners come from the processing chapters, I think it's relevant to define the country where the banners where will be displayed, and adapt the text. May be we could try to get help from the Francophonie group?--Charles Andrès (WMCH) 09:57, 29 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

To complete the translation of the banner, I suggest to indicate after the Jimmy Wales quote: «- Jimmy Wales, fondateur de Wikipédia». Jeff de St-Germain (talk) 04:20, 1 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

What do you mean by adapt the text? Ĉiuĵaŭde (talk) 13:44, 20 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]