Scriptance

Re: the Revision Deletion issue

I appreciate your boldness in creating that page. I don't have the time to give a more comprehensive reply, but it needs a lot of work before being turned into a policy. For example, removing all terminology which is relevant only to the English Wikipedia, fixing the wikilinks, aligning the content with Meta's policies and guidelines, etc. You would also need consensus for the implementation of this proposal, either on Meta:Babel or through a Meta request for comment (preferably the latter, as such a proposal would apply to the whole wiki). Regards, Dsuke1998AEOS (talk) 13:16, 16 January 2023 (UTC)

I've deleted that page, as it was a blatand copyright violation. Do not copy and paste entire projects from one project to another, in this case from <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Revision_deletion>. Additionally, it is unlikely that a glocal revdel policy will be created, as this is something that most projects already have. Creation of a global policy requires a formal RfC. For the meta-wiki, we already have a page Meta:Deletion policy that covers deletion as well. — xaosflux ^Talk 14:20, 16 January 2023 (UTC)

Ok thanks for the advices @Dsuke1998AEOS:. @Xaosflux: I'm not aware that there's a model for crediting authors from on project to another so it's explain the copyright violation, and I apologize for it. If it exist please tell me. With Dsuke we arrived to the conclusion that we need a RevDel for all projects because many of them (I didn't count them) don't have one (for exemple french wikipedia and wiktionnary don't have one @Lepticed7:, they have this, which said "In particular, it is recommended not to hide simple insults, or disparaging remarks". It's a problem because our objectives is to hide those insults.). I will pass by the RFC for a global policy. It's not about deletion but about masking attacks against persons or category of people. Actually it's not covered on all wikiprojects so we need a global policy. Regards Scriptance (talk) 16:10, 16 January 2023 (UTC)

@Scriptance I think you should start with talking to some stakeholders first there may be more things in place to build off of. Basically, if a project has a local community and administrators there is very unlikely going to be anyone that will force them to remove content that they want to keep unless it violates the Terms of Use and the foundation gets involved (partly because stewards aren't going to for unwanted deletions on local projects). For projects without communities, these are often dealt with by global sysops and stewards. If you want to build up a sample page you should do so in your sandbox (User:Scriptance/sandbox) first. Requests for comment has info on starting a global RFC. — xaosflux ^Talk 16:27, 16 January 2023 (UTC)

@Xaosflux: Thanks for the sandbox, I was looking for it. What you said is hopeless, but it confirms some impressions I have about our administrators on french wikipedia and wiktionnary :/ . Anyway, I'll keep trying to ameliorate the things throught meta and RFC (first in sandbox) and maybe later or on the same time, I'll see if I can also work on something for french community and admins, even if it will be really tough. Do you know where I can take contacts with those stakeholders you mentionned please? Scriptance (talk) 16:41, 16 January 2023 (UTC)

This would probably need to be looked at two-fold, keeping in mind that a policy needs to be able to be enforced or it is mostly useless. Stewards' noticeboard is one place to ask for some feedback, and would mostly apply to the hundreds of small projects without administrators. As far as for a project like frwiki that has over 10000 recently active users and over 100 local admins - this is basically a non-starter, if you want them to change their deletion processes you will need to bring it up with them. If stewards showed up at a huge project like frwiki, dewiki, enwiki and tried to overrule their communities there would be a major governance crisis that would likely result in recall of the stewards... — xaosflux ^Talk 16:53, 16 January 2023 (UTC)

I'll try to give you some advice in respect to a future RFC.

If/when you file a RFC (by following the steps at Requests for comment/Policy), I suggest your text answer the following points:

• Background of the proposal – The original context that led to you proposing a Meta Revision Deletion policy. Here, you mentioned the indifference on the part of the admins on both fr.wp and fr.wt. It would be important for you to state that.
• Scope – Which type of content would the RevDel feature cover. For example, would it apply only to hateful (bigoted) comments on Meta, or would it also apply to edit summaries and/or usernames?
• Access to the feature – What types of users would have access to the Revision Deletion feature. Would only sysops be allowed to view revdel'd content, or would a separate user group also have access to it?

Hope this helps! Dsuke1998AEOS (talk) 17:58, 16 January 2023 (UTC)

Note, for things that are only on Meta our local Meta:Deletion policy already allows for removal of content [that] is abusive or infringes on policies. Also note, that policies can not force anyone to make an edit or perform an action (they empower people that want to enforce the policies with the weight of the community - but if no one wants to enforce it, it will stand unenforced). — xaosflux ^Talk 19:24, 16 January 2023 (UTC)

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