Talk:Wikidata For Wikimedia Projects/Projects/Move Wikidata item link

Do you have questions about this task, please ask them here!

We will reply to you as soon as possible. --Danny Benjafield (WMDE) (talk) 13:29, 28 August 2024 (UTC)

What's the point of questions and feedback if the change is going to happen anyway? bdijkstra (talk) 21:10, 27 September 2024 (UTC)

+1 Punctilla (talk) 12:35, 28 September 2024 (UTC)

Hi @Bdijkstra, we would like to communicate changes before they happen in the spirit of transparency and answer any questions editor's might have. -Danny Benjafield (WMDE) (talk) 11:11, 30 September 2024 (UTC)

Why

Is there a particular reason this move is taking place?fr33kman 19:04, 27 September 2024 (UTC)

Same question : is it useful ? for all and every contributor ? For smartphone users like me, it’s an exclusion…Punctilla (talk) 12:36, 28 September 2024 (UTC)

Thanks for your comments.

@Fr33kman: this task has been on the Phabricator board for a long time, a decade even. A few years ago the Wikidata team attempted to make the change but unforeseen circumstances reverted it. For us as a new software development team, it represents a great onboarding ticket for our developers to get to grips with MediaWiki.

@Punctilla: we certainly hope (especially for newer editor's) that the new placement is more intuitive. We recognise that current editor's may need to get used to the new location. Indeed fr smartphone / mobile app users, there will be no change as the menu section lacks the sub-categories. We are tracking interactions / clicks on the link to have a measure on how behaviour may change after the link has moved. -Danny Benjafield (WMDE) (talk) 11:20, 30 September 2024 (UTC)

@Danny Benjafield (WMDE): The new position virtually hides the link (at least on some wikis with many items under general you need to first open tools and then scroll to see it). What is the rationale for it? I would expect it makes the use of data from Wikidata very confusing for new editors, as the source of the data becomes more unclear. It seems like a step in the wrong direction. Rather than support Wikidata integration (by making the link more visible) it makes it harder. Gunnar Larsson (talk) 20:49, 11 November 2024 (UTC)

Hello @Gunnar Larsson, thanks for your message. We did anticipate especially for existing editors that the sudden change may be confusing or take some getting used to. The logic that we are following and why the request was first created is when new editors or readers understand the association of sitelinked articles corresponding to the current page, if they wanted to explore the Wikidata information about the topic, it might be confusing that it's not placed with the other projects. -Danny Benjafield (WMDE) (talk) 13:21, 12 November 2024 (UTC)

@Danny Benjafield (WMDE): thank you for the answer. Do you have any data to base it on? I would expect it to be the other way around. For experienced users it is helpful to have a good structure to find things, whilst for new users it is a matter of actually knowing that things exist at all. If an element becomes as hidden as the wikidata link most people will not notice that it exists (that was my experience after returning after a 14 year hiatus).

You also have another aspect. Whilst for other sister projects it is mostly "just another link to something interesting" with Wikidata and Commons you can include them directly in the articles. With Commons the interface is quite clear. If click on an image (from Commons) you will get information about it. With Wikidata it is more complex since data is included via templates/modules and hence to its nature more hidden. That makes it more important that it is clear that the information exists. Whilst some of that responsibility is on developers of templates/modules it cannot be solely their responsibility. My preference (which I know is unlikely to happen) would be to have another tab "data" next to "article", "discussion". Gunnar Larsson (talk) 06:28, 13 November 2024 (UTC)

Apologies for such a long wait between replies @Gunnar Larsson. As for data, I can refer you to this task of tracking data object usage pre- and post-data object move, but unfortunately I cannot reveal the data per confidentiality reasons. I can reveal (unfortunately without providing evidence) that interactions/clicks on the data object have increased post-move, but this can be (partially or wholly) attributed to increased attention to the change through communications to Village Pumps. -Danny Benjafield (WMDE) (talk) 10:46, 25 November 2024 (UTC)

Wiktionary

Will there be any change for Wiktionary? As far as I understand we do not have an "In Other Projects" section. FocalPoint (talk) 19:11, 27 September 2024 (UTC)

Probably depends on the namespace, pages like wikt:en:Help:Contents have a section "In other projects". Johannnes89 (talk) 19:51, 27 September 2024 (UTC)

As far as I can see in sv.wiktionary, the link is gone already today (September 28). I use the "Vector legacy 2010" skin (old look) and look at wikt:sv:mila and there is no wikidata link. It is missing also from the "Vector 2022" skin. --LA2 (talk) 22:36, 27 September 2024 (UTC)

Hi, thank you for your questions. There is a mediawiki extension for Wiktionary called Cognate that handles the interwiki / interlanguage links in the article namespace for Wiktionaries. To offer some context, any instance of Wiktionary can have multiple articles on the same concept in different languages, as an example, the German Wiktionary has separate article pages for Fire and Feuer, this could create confusion and inconsistency on which article should be sitelinked to the Wikidata item.

As @Joh joh points out, the Wikidata item can be found on Wiktionary in other namespaces such as Project:, Special:, Template:. These pages do not require multiple versions on the same instance of wiktionary and so Wikidata can be sitelinked and handle the interlanguage links.

@LA2 this should be correct for the article namespace. As an example, if you go to Kategori:Svenska you should find a Wikidata-objekt (under Verktyg [Tools]) that will later this week move to (På andra projekt [In Other Projects]).-Danny Benjafield (WMDE) (talk) 12:01, 30 September 2024 (UTC)

False alarm. Nothing is broken on sv.wiktionary, the move has NOT occurred yet. And I use the oldest vecor ever and I am absolutely not keen to test even more "new" nonsense making the WMF wiki farm even more buggy, bloated, resource-inefficient and unusable. Taylor 49 (talk) 18:10, 1 October 2024 (UTC)

wikidatawiki link

What happens if the Wikidata item has a wikidatawiki sitelink? Like d:Q4582194. Bean49 (talk) 19:17, 27 September 2024 (UTC)

I had the same question. en:WP:VPT currently has a "Wikidata item" link (d:Q4582194) in the "General" section and a "Wikidata" link (d:Wikidata:Report a technical problem) in the "In other projects" section. Per phab:T372566 it seems like both links will be shown which seems ok to me. Johannnes89 (talk) 19:48, 27 September 2024 (UTC)

Thanks for bringing this up @Bean49and @Johannnes89, this question is a good candidate for the FAQ. Both of those links will co-exist in the "In Other Projects" section. -Danny Benjafield (WMDE) (talk) 12:17, 30 September 2024 (UTC)

It feels like it's a bit too late to worry about discoverability

Especially considering that most PC visitors, and probably most editors, are using the new Vector skin. In this new design, inter-project links are the lowest priority for the WMF, as they're essentially buried under the 'Tools' section, requiring even a few scrolls to come into view. And don't even get me started on mobile users. It's nearly impossible for a mobile user to ever stumble upon an inter-project link. Ignacio Rodríguez (talk) 19:28, 27 September 2024 (UTC)

I agree with this observation--Ciaurlec (talk) 20:44, 27 September 2024 (UTC)

Me too ! Big problem for me !!! Punctilla (talk) 12:39, 28 September 2024 (UTC)

Yeah, Vector 2022 basically made the whole block of these links meaningless. Still, I welcome this change given that Russian Wikipedia already implemented it via a gadget which we can now turn off. stjn^[ru] 21:17, 27 September 2024 (UTC)

Hard agree. The Wikidata link should be central and it is frankly ridiculous that frivolities like 'Random article' get a higher priority. Karmakolle (talk) 12:30, 28 September 2024 (UTC)

@Ignacio Rodríguez: There are attempts to improve this situation at phab:T334792, sadly not much progress were made lately. The idea clearly doesn't get enough attention. —— Eric Liu_（Talk） 18:40, 28 September 2024 (UTC)

Problem on svWP?

On the Swedish Wikipedia, the In other languages subsection is placed in the main menu on the left. Is this also going to be moved to the tools menu on the right? As on other language versions. See sv:Astrid Lindgren, de:Astrid Lindgren, fr:Astrid Lindgren, en:Astrid Lindgren for example. Sabelöga (talk) 22:26, 27 September 2024 (UTC)

Hello @Sabelöga, no the menu-sections should not change which side of the page they are aligned on, just the placement of the Wikidata item link. As an aside, if you view Swedish wikipedia in Vector 2022, the menu will align on the right-hand side.-Danny Benjafield (WMDE) (talk) 12:25, 30 September 2024 (UTC)

Yes, that's because, as I understand, it got moved back. Sabelöga (talk) 12:57, 30 September 2024 (UTC)

Big problem for me !!! (frWP)

I use mainly my smartphone to contribute, and the present configuration is convenient for me. I have absolutely no idea where I will find the link if you move it : no visible access to « Dans les autres projets » on my smartphone ! I don’t understand why this change is planned and I don’t appreciate it at all : it means smartphone users won’t be able to remove errors rather fréquent in descriptions (translation error, vandalisme…). Thanks for attention. Punctilla (talk) 12:33, 28 September 2024 (UTC)

According to Wikidata For Wikimedia Projects/Projects/Move Wikidata item link#I view Wikimedia sites on mobile, will this affect me? mobile users shouldn't be affected. Johannnes89 (talk) 19:23, 28 September 2024 (UTC)

Hello @Punctilla, thank you for voicing your concerns. I hope it reassures you and as @Johannnes89correctly points out, we have included an exception for the MinervaNeue (aka Mobile) skin that the Wikidata item will remain under the ⋮More menu.-Danny Benjafield (WMDE) (talk) 12:33, 30 September 2024 (UTC)

Bonsoir @User:Johannnes89 and @User:Danny Benjafield (WMDE). I apologize for the too long time I took to answer; thanks a lot for kind information and answer! — Punctilla (talk) 17:59, 17 October 2024 (UTC)

Question

Will this mean that the "# language(s)" link on Vector 2022 be gone? ToadetteEdit (talk) 09:33, 29 September 2024 (UTC)

Hi @ToadetteEdit, no there should be no change to the Languages dropdown.-Danny Benjafield (WMDE) (talk) 12:25, 30 September 2024 (UTC)

What if a sitelink to Wikidata already exists?

w:en:Help:Purge contains both a "Wikidata item" link and an "In other projects" link to Wikidata (because d:Q11052584 has both "Wikipedia" links and an "other site" link to d:Help:FAQ). If the "Wikidata item" is moved to the "In other projects" section, will there be two links to Wikidata? Or will one of them disappear? Seudo (talk) 14:58, 3 October 2024 (UTC)

Hello @Seudo, there will be 2 links, Wikidata and Wikidata item.

If and should the naming convention of these 2 links remain the same is part of another Phabricator ticket T372566 and will be investigated by a UX researcher/designer in collaboration with the Wiki community. -Danny Benjafield (WMDE) (talk) 12:29, 4 October 2024 (UTC)

The word "item" is probably superfluous now

The word "item" is probably superfluous, now that the link is in the correct place. None of the other links in that section have the word "item" (or "article", or "page") after them. [Edited to add: I see that some pages have both "Wikidata" and "Wikidata item" links that can lead to different places, e.g. at en:WP:VPT. That might cause some confusion.] Jonesey95 (talk) 18:03, 22 October 2024 (UTC)

Hello @Jonesey95, thanks for your message. Yes, as you mentioned in your edit there is now in some circumstances, two Wikidata sitelinks in the In Other Projects section exist. We do have it on our phabricator board to investigate the best way to differentiate these two links and reduce confusion. -Danny Benjafield (WMDE) (talk) 13:37, 23 October 2024 (UTC)