Talk:Universal Code of Conduct/2021 consultations/Roundtable discussions

Translation

Is translation (machine or live) available to non-English speakers? Best, Barkeep49 (talk) 19:59, 4 May 2021 (UTC)

Nah, come on. The universal language ist english. Why bother?! ...Sicherlich ^Post 11:39, 5 May 2021 (UTC)

Barkeep49 and Sicherlich: We're trying to gather input from as many communities as possible. For these meetings we will try to enable machine transcription through Zoom to aid communication, however I do not think it yet performs translation. Contributors can provide input in any language in the text chat and the facilitators can verbally share the input; my colleagues command a few languages among them for verbal input as well. While the introduction will be in English, with sufficient attendance breakout rooms will be organized. If there is a desire from contributors to discuss in a specific language, we can facilitate that. Community calls can also be organized independently and then submit a report of the community input. Xeno (WMF) (talk) 01:12, 8 May 2021 (UTC)

Thanks for your answer. If you really try you would have had the page translated as a first step. And not after some Wikipedians pointed it out and in some random languages but on regular basis in at least 3 or 4 of the most common languages around the world. If someone without sufficent english ever comes to meta he will just leave and never come back. Its only a few pages which are translated and in which languages is just random. That does not help them. Yes, life translations are costly; try with the non-live meta pages first.
And don't bother with the live translation. As I said: people who do not speak english on a very good basis have are mostly lost for WMF. If you want to get them back on board you need to start on meta and all WMF announcments first...Sicherlich ^Post 04:43, 8 May 2021 (UTC) Costs as an excuse is lame. The Community is the reason for WMF to exist and the basis of all income. Acc. de-WP 2018/2019 had an turnover of 120 million USD and an increase in the net assets of over 30,000,000 USD - more than enough money to hire interpreters

Barkeep49 & Sicherlich: I'm continuing to work with other Movement Strategy and Governance facilitators towards making translation, interpretation, and other language support available for these important topics and conversations. On 17 July at 15:00 UTC we are hosting conversations in at least four languages (usually with additional language support available as well). We would be happy to see you there (other Movement Strategy topics will also be discussed, in the interest of volunteer availability). Please see and share the announcement if interested. Xeno (WMF) (talk) 20:02, 6 July 2021 (UTC)

Thanks for the invitation, but there might be a misunderstanding: Personally I'm able to follow english discussions. I'm not asking for translations so that I can follow them.

Towards the topic: I have the feeling that if they don't get the result WMF wishes they would just be on paper and have a use as a fig leave. If WMF cares about the opinion of the Community: make 2 RfCs: if the communities want a CoC at all and if so one about its content.

...Sicherlich ^Post 01:48, 7 July 2021 (UTC) So I'm not joining; not to be used as fig leave and as I don't see a need for a CoC for the Community or further more; the CoC will be used by WMF against the community. Not true? Well in my understanding Trust and Safety is responsible for the CoC, right? Its head is Jan Eissfeldt and he has still some unanswered question on his WMF talk page on de

nur nicht zuviel Sprachen

Ich vermute die Diskussionen werden nur in Englisch erfolgen? Finde ich sehr gut 👍 Je weniger Einfluss anderer Sprachen und Kulturen zu spüren ist, desto besser. Dadurch kann man solche Fremd-Einflüsse wunderbar ausgrenzen und, da es ja die Regel ist, auch systematisch aus meta und zukünftig hoffentlich auch aus dem Wikimedia-Universum tilgen! ...Sicherlich ^Post 11:46, 5 May 2021 (UTC) Sarkasmus? Quatsch!

The discussions will be held on Zoom

What is the point of organizing discussions that are limited technologically (many people cannot communicate by voice at the same time) and by time (they are held in a strictly defined period of time, which may be uncomfortable for many people)? It turns out that a very wide range of people (for example, those who do not have access to broadband Internet, which allows them to participate in a video call) are excluded from this process.

Why not have an open discussion with the plain text? There are doubts that it will be possible to moderate it, or is it just following some habitual model of behavior, even if it is ineffective?

The fact that the Wikimedia Foundation arranges disastrous polls (it is no wonder that almost no one except me answered such furious clerical wordings, incomprehensible to ordinary people) does not mean that they do not need to be carried out. You just need to follow the path that the entire community is following in this cases. You need to agree on the wording of the questions, you need to provide a team that will analyze the survey and summarize. You need to involve the community in work that you yourself cannot do (one translator and one person who does not speak the target wiki's language will not pull it), you need to rely on the community, you need to use the mechanisms developed in the community, they may be slipping, but they work.

So far, it seems that this is some kind of huge profanation and imitation of activity (simply due to the fact that the Foundation and the community operate in different ways, of course, and not out of malicious intent). Carn (talk) 08:48, 12 May 2021 (UTC)

Hi @Carn: this is a format we - small team of facilitators - are trying, to generate additional engagement in ways beyond text. People that cannot join can still contribute by text on the Meta consultation page.

We will follow the Zoom text chat, and transcription will be enabled, though I don't think we are able to facilitate an all-text discussion simultaneously. Did you mean something like an IRC discussion?

We will look at other times for future meetings. Please let me know if 03:00 UTC and 19:00 UTC are better. Thank you for the input about the best ways to engage in other languages. Xeno (WMF) (talk) 14:29, 12 May 2021 (UTC)

Unfortunately, work and family do not allow you to be distracted for a long time, alas. Carn (talk) 14:56, 12 May 2021 (UTC)

15 May 2021 meeting link

@Blossom Ozurumba, Htchien, Chicocvenancio, Ellif, Taylor 49, Waltercolor, Nosebagbear, Jojit fb, and Hogü-456: Please see the meeting link: https://wikimedia.zoom.us/j/93538391857?pwd=eDNVU0N0WVBvVVhBYVJWdUltWkx4Zz09 : we will starting about 40 minutes from now and look forward to speaking with you! Xeno (WMF) (talk) 14:20, 15 May 2021 (UTC)

Code of conduct consultants?

There was a recent incident of weaponization of a Code of Conduct in the Brazilian Kubernetes community, and while it seems to be handled adequately one of the things I become more aware because of it is the existence of consultants that can help with training for code of conduct writing and enforcement. Is this something that would be useful for the drafting committee? Perhaps for Trust and Safety staff as well? https://otter.technology/ is one that come with this wonderful post about warning signs in CoCs Chico Venancio (talk) 14:11, 13 July 2021 (UTC)

@Chicocvenancio: thank you for these links, Chico; this looks like something that would be of interest for all while discussing the upcoming Enforcement Guidelines draft. RamzyM (WMF) (talk) 06:16, 8 August 2021 (UTC)

17 July meeting links

@Nattes à chat, Nosebagbear, Asartea, Jeromi Mikhael, L235, Taylor 49, Rosiestep, Tiputini, Buszmail, Lanavegante, TaronjaSatsuma, JavaHurricane, Christoph Jackel (WMDE), Chicocvenancio, SHISHIR DUA, Nehaoua, and Barkeep49:

Hello everyone, the meetings are starting shortly. Please access the rooms with the following links:

• 17 July meeting link (English, French, Spanish)
• 17 July meeting link (German)

Look forward to speaking. Xeno (WMF) (talk) 14:57, 17 July 2021 (UTC)

Why does this even exist?

What's the point of a "roundtable discussion" that couldn't just be said on-wiki? It seems like the WMF is restricting who can give more visible input, considering many people might not have a reliable internet connection, may be shy and not want to discuss things over a call, or just don't have the time to join one of these calls. The way the WMF has handled this debacle makes me doubt that anything besides exactly what the WMF wants will get passed. ThePlatypusofDoom (talk) 05:49, 8 August 2021 (UTC)

@ThePlatypusofDoom: the point is to provide an additional avenue for those who prefer doing it in a way that would be comfortable with them. I dispute your characterization that "WMF is restricting who can give more visible input", as no one is being limited to provide their comments on any UCoC Talk page onwiki; matter of fact, a lot of people do! RamzyM (WMF) (talk) 06:15, 8 August 2021 (UTC)

August-September Conversation Hours

From my point of view it is for a wider coverage of time zones and with that audience important that the conversation hours happen at more than two different times. Please think about to schedule the office hours at different times. I can maybe attend at 14 UTC but I dont know how many people have at one of the two hours time to attend. At the weekend and there propably on Saturday you can reach from my point of view the most people.--Hogü-456 (talk) 13:13, 22 August 2021 (UTC)

@Hogü-456: Thank you for your comment. We are trying to make it a standard practice to accommodate Conversation Hours and Roundtable schedules around diverse timezones. Currently we're planning the next Roundtable at 0300 UTC and 1500 UTC on Saturday. Please do sign up if that would fit your schedule! Best, RamzyM (WMF) (talk) 12:45, 16 September 2021 (UTC)

18 September 15:00 UTC meeting link

@Nattes à chat, Tiputini, DaSupremo, Joalpe, Msbbb, Nehaoua, Vexations, and DerHexer: Thank you for signing up; the meeting is starting now: https://wikimedia.zoom.us/j/83820216036?pwd=c3VsVm9tT0E5ay8yQmVFZGZoNmpmZz09 . Xeno (WMF) (talk) 14:58, 18 September 2021 (UTC)

Thanks for the reminder, Xeno (WMF). I did not get any information about availability of Portuguese translation and being exhausted from interacting in English I won't participate. Thanks anyway. --Joalpe (talk) 15:39, 18 September 2021 (UTC)

Thanks Joalpe: we hope to have more support for this language soon :) Xeno (WMF) (talk) 23:09, 18 September 2021 (UTC)