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Requests for new languages/Wikiquote French 2

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French Wikiquote

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submitted verification final decision
  This proposal has been approved.
The Board of Trustees and language committee have deemed that there is sufficient grounds and community to create the new language project.

The closing committee member provided the following comment:

The requested project has been approved by the Board of Trustees, and can be found at q:fr:Main Page. —{admin} Pathoschild 20:26, 4 December 2006 (UTC)
Proposal summary
Please read the handbook for requesters for help using this template correctly.

Arguments in favour

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  1. I would like to contribute to this project. Poppypetty 18:17, 13 April 2006 (UTC) (fr:User:Poppy).[reply]
  2. I can also help, particularly in the beginning. Seb35 22:01, 13 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  3. Quand vous voulez, on peut s'y mettre --Jonathaneo 13:08, 14 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]
    Translation: "When you want, we can start."
  4. Une 5e...--BeatrixBelibaste 18:17, 14 April 2006 (UTC) (fr:User:BeatrixBelibaste).[reply]
    Translation: "A fifth one..."
  5. I can help you a bit. Je souhaiterais surtout faire le ménage/rengement comme je le fais déjà sur Wikipédia. Et puis commencer un nouveau projet c'est se conduire en batisseurs. --Pseudomoi 21:58, 20 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]
    Translation: "I can help you a bit. I'd mostly like to do cleanup and organization as I already do on Wikipedia. Besides, starting a new project is to act as builders."
  6. I don't have any problems of this. Sounds like a good idea. Computerjoe 11:23, 9 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  7. Of course. --Oldak Quill 18:22, 23 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  8. Full support, but only for public domain texts. --Bsm15 17:36, 12 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  9. Je veux aussi contribuer sur ce projet. Il est nécessaire avec un encadrement strict sur les droits d'auteur. --Bertrand GRONDIN 17:43, 15 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
    Translation: "I'd also like to contribute to this project. It's necessary with a strict copyright framework."
  10. Je veux bien participer aussi. --Zephyrus 21:00, 13 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
    Translation: "I'd like to participate as well."
  11. Je trouve que wikiquote est une bonne idée, elle a sa place près de wiktionnaire et autres projets. --seb.bernery
    Translation: "I think that the French Wikiquote is a good idea; it has its place alongside the French Wiktionary and other projects."
  12. but olny public domain materials should be used Kneiphof 13:28, 15 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  13. 86.71.195.155 10:37, 2 November 2006 (UTC) pas pu m'inscrire, mais c'est moi http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Utilisateur:Moumousse13 - j'ai enfin pu créer mon compte Moumousse13 11:10, 2 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]
    Translation: "I couldn't register, but it's me, w:fr:User:Moumousse13. — finally managed to create an account."
  14. I can help in the begining, Rune Obash 14:31, 2 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  15. Avec plaisir, il faut juste me dire ce qu'il y a à faire :) --Messire Hephgé 09:59, 3 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]
    Translation: "With pleasure, you just have to tell me what needs to be done. :)"
  16. Pourquoi pas? Why not? Waarom niet? Perché no? Warum nicht? Mais, on devrait faire un règlement plus striqute pour controller les citations qui seraient contre la loi française. Booksworm 18:02, 6 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  17. Support fully! I had just begun to contribute on wikiquote-fr when it was taken down... chtit_draco talk page 13:56, 7 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  18. Je ne peux pas aider car je suis pris sur le Wiktionnaire à plein temps, mais je soutiens ce projet. - Darkdadaah 16:32, 7 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]
    Translation: "I cannot help because the French Wiktionary takes all my time, but I support this project."
  19. Je suis très interessé par ce projet Fmaunier 13:29, 25 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]
    Translation: "I'm very interested in this project."
  20. Why not? --Yes0song (fr:Utilisateur:Yes0song) 14:55, 16 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  21. I do support this project as my last vote said.Moreover, I'm surprised to have to vote again. Grimlock 08:55, 27 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  22. What I know about the conditions for reopening seems to be enough for avoiding many problems in the future, if there is enough patrollers. / Ce que je sais des conditions posées pour la réouverture me semble suffisant pour éviter beaucoup de problèmes à l'avenir, s'il y a suffisamment de patrouilleurs [surveillants]. Hégésippe | ±Θ± 10:26, 27 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  23. Support --Slade ♠ 17:57, 2 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
    Votes will be ignored in accordance with the Language proposal policy. Please provide arguments or reasons. —{admin} Pathoschild 18:14, 2 December 2006 (UTC)

Arguments against

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  1. I support a new fr.wikiquote for old texts in the public domain only. I oppose the new rules that allow quotes from films and contemporary authors, because I believe this clashes the French copyright law. See Talk:Wikiquote FR. Je suis pour la réouverture d'un Wikiquote francophone seulement pour les textes anciens tombés dans le domaine public. Je suis opposé aux nouvelles règles qui incitent à citer des films et des auteurs contemporains, parce que je pense que cela n'est pas compatible avec les lois françaises sur les droits d'auteurs. Voir Talk:Wikiquote FR Teofilo 12:08, 18 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]
    A bit franco-centred, isn't it? Greudin
    Though it is the same reason why the fr.wikiquote was closed in the first place, because of those French(France) copyright laws. 132.204.207.108 12:59, 21 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]
    As Greudin says, French is spoken internationally. Why not base the rules on Canadian, Belgian or Swiss law? All this is irrelevant as the servers are in the US so will be governed by US law. US law permits such quotation. --Oldak Quill 18:19, 23 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  2. How to avoid the same problems happening again ? Traroth 21:29, 15 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  3. Strong against. The problems wich led to the closure of wikiquote will be really hard to avoid. Will the community be enough active, on a long period? As most of the supporters are involved in one or two other projects, I don't think they'll have enough time to handle everything. And at the end more and more problems to handle with... For me the game is not worth the candle Schiste 09:26, 27 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]
    Si on suit ton raisonnement, il faudrait fermer tous les wikiquotes, y compris le wikiquote anglophone. Le problème est venu de la violation du droit français concernant la protection des bases de données. La Charte demandée par Anthere va dans ce sens là. A cet égard, je veillerai à interdire tout bot allant dans ce sens et à appliquer à la lettre les conditions exigées sur meta et reprise dans cette Charte. --Bertrand GRONDIN 09:34, 27 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]
    Translation: "If we follow your reasoning, we'd have to close all Wikiquotes including the English project. The problem was a violation of French copyright laws concerning protection of databases. The charter demanded by Anthere goes in that direction. In this regard, I'd like to prohibit all bots going in this direction and apply to the letter the conditions required on Meta and restated in this Charter."
    From my point of view? Yes. But the thing is, the law is totally different in foreigner country, in france database are protected from duplication and exploitation, and it's not about bot, but even normal users. Will you check everything? Check, check and over check? Perhaps in the beginning, but I don't care about court term, what i'm worried about is in few month, what will happen if the foundation receive a complaint and have to close it again? Time and energy spent for... nothing. As it's pure information it's harder to find if it's law violation or not. Schiste 09:48, 27 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

General discussion

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  • « Wikicitations » est une bonne idée d'intitulé. L'emploi d'un nouveau titre permettrait de symboliser le changement par rapport à la précédente version. Teofilo 12:11, 18 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]
    Translation: "'Wikicitations' is a good idea for a title. The use of a new title would symbolise the change from the preceding version."
  • J'ai ajouté les votes motivés de la première mouture et qui on été injustement supprimés sur cette nouvelle procédure, dont je conteste formellement le caractère rétroactif. On ne change pas de règles du jeu en cours de route. Cela fait sept votes motivés qui ont été passés à la trappe sans aucune explication. Reste le reste des voix qui ont été supprimées ce que je conteste aussi.--Bertrand GRONDIN 08:35, 27 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]
    Translation: "I added the motivated votes from the original request which were unfairly removed in this new procedure, of which I formally contest the retroactive application. One does not change the rules of the game in the middle of play. That makes seven motivated votes which were removed without any explanation. That leaves the rest of the votes which were removed, which I also contest."
    As Grondin, I contest this new vote, which is quite unfair and surprising. I could see that my vote (a simple vote ?) was not reported in this new version. I hope that the final decision will take account for the both, and for all votes. Must a vote be enforced by some argues in that case ? I don't think so. Moreover, warning the people whose votes were not reported was, I think, essential. Grimlock 09:02, 27 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Préalable

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Je ne suis pas d'accord pour recommencer à zéro toute la procédure d'ouverture de wikiquote en appliquant des règles rétroactivement et en enlevant 19 votes valides sur 31. . Pour ma part, il faut se référer à la procédure engagée précédemment par Greudin. Par ailleurs, le Board est appelé à se prononcer sur la demande initiale les 28-29 novembre prochain. --Bertrand GRONDIN 15:52, 25 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Translation: "I do not agree with starting the entire procedure over from zero by retroactively applying new rules and removing 19 valid votes on 31. In my opinion, one must refer to the preceding procedure as started by Greudin. Furthermore, the board is expected to make a decision on the initial demand this coming 28-29 November."
Les règles ont été appliqué rétroactivement parce-que le nombre de requêtes ouvertes surpassait de loin notre capacité de les traiter, surtout que la vaste majorité ne contenait aucune argumentation qu'on pouvait utiliser pour juger la requête. Je ne savais pas que ce requête-ci était sous considération par le conseil, car ce n'est indiqué nul-part. Puisque tu a restauré tous les votes, ce serait peut-être plus simple d'ajouté la nouvelle discussion à Requests for new languages/Wikiquote French et supprimé le '2'? —{admin} Pathoschild 18:13, 27 November 2006 (UTC)
Translation: "The new rules were retroactively applied because the number of open requests far surpassed our capacity to process them, especially considering that the vast majority did not contain any debate that we could use to judge them. I did not know that is particular request was under consideration by the board, because this isn't indicated anywhere. Since you have restored all the votes, maybe it would be simpler to add the new discussion to Requests for new languages/Wikiquote French and remove the '2'?"
Je tiens d'abord à rendre hommage à ta bonne foi et à l'absence de toute malice dans cette affaire. Si je t'ai blessé, je t'en demande pardon. On va inclure les votes non motivés dans un espace à part si tu le veux bien. C'est un projet qui tiens à cœur à la communauté francophone de wikimedia. Note : Tu as toute ma confiance pour être steward. :-)--Bertrand GRONDIN 19:02, 27 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Translation: "I'd first like to pay homage to your good faith and the absence of all malice in this situation. If I hurt you, I ask your pardon. We'll include the unmotivated votes in a separate space if you don't mind. This is a project which is very important to the French Wikimedia community. Note: you have my full confidence to be a steward. :)"
Je suis d'accord avec Grondin. Bonne chance pour les élections / I agree with Grondin. Good luck for the elections. Grimlock 19:05, 27 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Merci beaucoup. Je suis content d'avoir votre compréhension et, surtout, votre confiance. :) —{admin} Pathoschild 19:21, 27 November 2006 (UTC)
Translation: "Thank you very much. I'm happy to have your understanding and, especially, your trust. :)"
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