The following request for comments is closed. The request was eventually archived as inactive.
Statement of the issueEdit
Abu Mosa island's articleEdit
Hello dear fellows! It is a longtime we see some kind of non-neutral edits in WikiPedias. Specially in some Wikipedia which are under influence of bad administration. I think Arabic Wikipedia is one of them. For example we know that Abu Mosa Island and other two islands in the Persian gulf is under rule of Iranian government in fact(as an Iranian island). But in Arabic Wikipedia they wrote it: "under rule of United Arab Emirates". We know that U.A.E only disputed and claimed that Island, and in the real world's map and atlas it belonged to Iran. The goal of Wikipedia is being neutral and reliable, but on that wiki with more than 500,000 articles, we see dogmatism and nationalistic fanaticism. As an active user, I want the Wikimedia foundation to resolve this problematic issues in the Arabic Wikipedia. When a person for the first time sees an unreliable article, tell me how Wikimedia can reach its goal which is reliability and being neutral? (for more search please look at Abu Mosa Island's Arabic version's article). Also its the same with two other Iranian islands called Greater and Lesser Tunbs (islands in Persian gulf). They are claimed by U.A.E, and are administrating by Iran in fact (as we read this fact in English Wikipedia). But in Arabic version, it is vice versa. They wrote they are belonging and administrating by U.A.E and just claimed by Iran.
Persian Gulf Pro league article in Arabic wikiEdit
As I said, there is nationalistic, Iranophobic or pan-Arabist fanatical edits on wiki-pedia which deeply related on the issues which do not relate to Wikipedia and an encyclopedia, itself. In Persian Wikipedia, after renaming of the U.A.E's top-football-league to Arabian Gulf league,
shortly Persian wiki's users changed the name to its real name without any fanatical Iranian or Persian ethnicitism or nationalism. But in other side, in Arabic Wikipedia, we have met insisting not to change the real old name of Iranian league which is officially Persian Gulf Pro League, right now. Please investigate that. An admin called User:Elph despite he successfully tried in Persian wiki to rename U.A.E's league into its new name called Arabian Gulf league, he rejected to do the same work with "Persian Gulf Pro League" after bringing FIFA's official site's references by users. Despite the name Persian Gulf Pro League's logo is there and says its name in both English and Perso-Arabic scripts.
Differences between Arabic and Persian wikipedia in this caseEdit
Since 2013 UAE government changed the name of its pro football league from its former name "UAE Football League" to the controversial "Arabian Gulf League" following this event an Arab Wikipedia User:Elph who is too an Arabic wiki's admin came to the Persian Wikipedia and Arabian Gulf League's talk page wanting to change the former name to new. The Persian Wikipedia admins agreed and the change happened as a professional act of them. I opposed to that act just because I said why should we change the name when they didn't the same act on long-time changed name Persian Gulf Pro League ar-wiki version?" .Thereafter, the person who tried to change it to Arabian Gulf league (User:Elph) in Persian Wikipedia, became that person who prevented Persian users from doing the same act on Persian Gulf Pro League ar-wiki version in Arabic Wikipedia. For further information please look at these both Persian and Arabian versions mentioned articles and their talk pages which have the same situation (in Arabic wiki and Persian) to understand me better. Thanks.TheStrayDog (talk) 03:21, 20 August 2017 (UTC)
Parsian county of southern Iran's article in Arabic wikiEdit
There is a county in southern Iran, which is even not disputed by any Arab country, but in the same situation like above, admins don't let users change the old name of the county which is not even Arabic and it was a Persian name called "Gavbandi" (which means city of collusion). The new name is Parsian county and is a Persian name. and 100% of the residents are Persian people. but in the same time the Arabic wiki is not responsible for its non-neutral and nationalistic edits and affairs.
After 1960s some Arab countries started to call Persian Gulf as Arabian Gulf, because of nationalistic and pan-Arabist affairs they perused. But a little bit after establishing Arabic Wikipedia they deleted the historical name Persian gulf in the article and historical maps. We know that United Nation and some official international and geographical organizations, only recognize the Persian Gulf as an official name for that body of water.
Renaming of Iranian city "Ahvaz" which was Arabized on Arabic wikiEdit
In southern Iran, a major city of Khuzestan province "Ahvaz", has Arab minorities, some Arabic wiki users added a second name which is not Persian and it's Arabic (الاحواز). As we know Ahvaz is Persian name derived from Elamtae people which lived in Ancient Iran at that place. They was called as Huzi(هوز) People or Khuzi (خوز) which the name of the province was derived from that too. But the Arabic name is an Arabic plural noun doesn't relate and match to his legal or historical background, just Arabization of Khuzestan of Iran which has some Arab minorities and immigrants (mostly from Iraq). The name Khuzestan is Persian place-name and derived from Khuz (ancient Iranian people) + Estan (Persian suffix of place). Please investigate to clean Arabic version out of that Arabic name (الاحواز). The true name is "اهواز" which is Iranian.
Calling Persian Wikipedians as "Racists" in Arabic wiki by an AdminEdit
In Arabic wiki, User:Elph which is an admin in there, called Persian users as "Racists" in Arabic Wikipedia. Finally our one Admin(User:Ladsgroup) who understands Arabic realized and sent a complaints against him in Meta to investigate. Elph is an active user in Persian Wikipedia either. The evidence is here. (please use third party Arabic speakers or google translate to find out the meaning).
Deletion of Persian Gulf Forever (Song) in Arabic wiki and doing WP:CensorEdit
There is a famous song which called Persian Gulf Forever, sang by Iranian singer Ebi. Atfer making the Arabic translation of its English article, it has been removed without any discussion reason by an admin (User:Elph).
- Really? Anyway, ask in Wikipedia:Requests for undeletion before complaining in the meta. --Helmoony (talk) 01:35, 10 July 2017 (UTC)
- You can't do that, Helmoony, can you? At English Wikipedia, you have to discuss the deletion with the administrator who deleted the content. If unsuccessful, you need to have the deletion discussion reviewed. Why not reviewing the deletion discussion in Arabic Wikipedia instead? How is the deletion review process done in Arabic Wikipedia? --George Ho (talk) 02:20, 10 July 2017 (UTC)
- Both are possible, just make a request with notoriety references. And it's better by the way to create an article about the artist/album.--Helmoony (talk) 03:22, 10 July 2017 (UTC)
- The deletion log shows it was not deleted by Elph, as claimed... --Fjmustak (talk) 10:27, 13 July 2017 (UTC)
The prologue and pushing Wikipedia on political issues in Arabic wikiEdit
I am thinking of pushing Arabic Wikipedia as a tool of pressure against Iranian government or people for some reasons related to Arab governments or political issues, outside. If it's true, It is a non-encyclopedic affair. But I hope and believe it is not true, so investigation will show us its reality.
And finally a lot more articles which must investigate them and make them real and reach the true goal of Wikimedia which is "reliability". TheStrayDog (talk) 20:15, 24 June 2017 (UTC)
Found deleted Arabic editionEdit
I found ar:الخليج الفارسي للأبد by looking through history log of Wikidata entry. --George Ho (talk) 02:19, 30 June 2017 (UTC)
Here's the rationale for deletion: "المقالة ليست سوى ترويج واستفزاز إيراني". --George Ho (talk) 18:31, 4 July 2017 (UTC)
- My Arabic is basic. But if I'm not so wrong, It (the rationale phrase) means: "It is the Iranian Propaganda". If It's not correct, please inform us. TheStrayDog (talk) 10:32, 5 July 2017 (UTC)
Pinging جار الله and Abbad to ask for deletion review of ar:ويكيبيديا:نقاش الحذف/الخليج الفارسي للأبد or undeleting the article. --George Ho (talk) 04:04, 10 July 2017 (UTC)
Pinging باسم, who deleted the Arabic version, and علاء, who nominated the article for deletion. Note that TheStrayDog was previously "AmirMuhammad1". --George Ho (talk) 13:30, 13 July 2017 (UTC)
More about other versionsEdit
I found that the Persian article was created in March 2012. Then the English version was created last July, i.e. July 2016. Speaking of which, I'll raise issues at en:Talk:Persian Gulf Forever soon. --George Ho (talk) 18:41, 4 July 2017 (UTC)
Act of ar-wiki admin User:Elph on preventing users from editing wrongsEdit
An Arabic Wikipedia's active user told me here, that he edited Arabic version of "Abu Musa Island's article" (its info-box). But an ar-wiki admin who these issues are against him, prevented him from editing wrong information on that article (see here ). That user is User:Elph named Abbas (عباس). In my thought, he is a leading person on anti-Iranian/Persian and Pan-Arab (Arabization) acts in Arabic Wikipedia. I demand to have an investigation and a review on his acts/adminship in Arabic wiki. Thanks TheStrayDog (talk) 00:03, 31 July 2017 (UTC)
Adding Abu Mosa Island as a part of UAE (UAE flag) doing a certain racist and anti-Iranian political actEdit
Invasion of the Iranian islands by Ar-wiki admins disregarding international fact, law and atlasEdit
In the false named Arabian Gulf Article in Arabic Wikipedia, in its info-box you can see they mentioned Abu-Mosa Island (an Iranian island) as an Emirati (Belonged to United Arab Emirates adding its flag, not Iran the true administrator of the island recognized by the world atlases and the United Nation as its true administrator, an Iranian island) -which is legally a part of Iran and but only disputed by UAE not owned. As We know these political acts, are a part of series of pushing and using Arabic Wikipedia as a pan-Arab media and tool for ultra-racist and dictatorships of the Persian Gulf's Arab governments and their political goals. They- who did this, are trying to destroy the good credit of the reliability of the entire encyclopedia as a neutral and free encyclopedia in the world. They are threatening the truthiness, real facts and neutrality of the project. So because of that, I hereby again and again, reasonably based on the issues I mentioned a lot, with the online sources, want a comprehensive investigation on their deeds (ar-wiki society & admins) and my claims. May his majesty, Jimmy Wales User:Jimbo does something for this situation. All right reserved for the Iranian society and peoples & activists to respond legally making an international law-suit against Arabic Wikipedia and its administration, lacking of the truth and doing anti-racial and anti-Persian/Iranian also anti-free knowledge acts. The sooner, the better. So investigate it as we can right now, till it's not too late for the project. Thanks. TheStrayDog (talk) 00:19, 17 September 2017 (UTC)
- Also ar-wiki admin @Elph: (User:Elph) and some others prevented users like me and most of Iranian or other users from editing on those wrongs. so that's why we made this RFC because think those are "intentional" wrong acts against us. TheStrayDog (talk) 00:29, 17 September 2017 (UTC)
Useful External LinksEdit
List of external links which may make this issues more clear
TheStrayDog (talk) 02:22, 20 August 2017 (UTC)
Certain Pan-Arabist Forgery of Reality and Renaming of The Historical FactsEdit
- @George Ho: @جار الله: Salute! Dear Users: George and Jar Allah and plenty of others who are contributing on this RFC since it was created by me. I've created an article called Persian Gulf Veterans National Medal in English Wikipedia a few month ago (a stub article about a U.S official service medal of its army). But even it is not the issue itself, but it is that I've just seen that there is an Arabic version of it in the Arabic Wikipedia which censored the real name of the article and the medal from Persian Gulf National Medal into the Arabian Gulf National Medal (Arabic:ميدالية الخليج العربي للمحاربين القدامى) (see the Arabic wiki's version of it here). Due to this obvious forgery of reality (knowledge and facts) and a possible renaming or kind of censoring, and also denying of the rules such as WP:censor, WP:Neutral and many other related to this issues: I hereby as a responsible Iranian and Persian volunteer of Wikimedia, would want to have a fair investigation, judgment, review on Arabic part of Wikipedia project, and also a dispossessing of all arwiki-admins who are related directly or indirectly to this obvious anti-Iranian (Racism) tendency, fanatic/severe/extremist Pan-Arab attitude and non-encyclopedic acts on Arabic Wikipedia, as soon as possible through a complete and official reviewing on that project. Nevertheless, it should be noted that this mentioned article (issue) will probably be an online evidence proving my claims above. thanks TheStrayDog (talk) 23:40, 4 August 2017 (UTC)
- Further details: The Arabic version of Persian Gulf Veterans National Medal is made by Arabic Wikipedia user User:المتمرد in 7 April 2017 (editing history). He described himself as an Arab nationalist (from Bahrain: a little sovereign-island in the Persian gulf) by using a userbox in his ar-wiki user page in the section "political views" (ar:شخصية المستخدم السياسية) who by using some userboxes shows their possible pan-Arab tendencies. My comment on this situation is that there are lots of active users and admins in Arabic Wikipedia who haven't devoted themselves to an encyclopedia, but their severe nationalistic ideas. TheStrayDog (talk) 20:28, 17 August 2017 (UTC)
Some other issues were found just recentlyEdit
Arabization of the name of Iranian city AbadanEdit
- Look at Arabic version of Abadan which is an Iranian city in southern Iran. Its name is Abadan (Persian:آبادان) derived from two Persian words "Abad" meaning "prosperous city" in Persian language and "an" (ان) which is a Persian suffix for cities and Places meaning "place" like Iran (Ir+an=Place of Irs=Aryans=Iranians) or like Iranian province Khuzestan (Place of Kuzi people) As we know Abad is a suffix of a place name for cities which is a Persian word etymologically. For example: Islam Abad (capital city of Pakistan) or Ashk Abat(Abad=capital city of Turkmenistan)- Najaf Abad (an Iranian city of Isfahan province) and etc,. Abadan = Abad+ An (Persian suffix for place like Ir+an=Iran=Land of Irs=Aryans or Semn+an=Semnan which is an Iranian province name. or Tehr+an=Tehran the capital city of Iran). But in the Arabic wikipedia they made a new word which is not related to the Iranian name and is written like عبادان which will make it an Arabic name, not Iranian/Persian. Please investigate this problem. It must be the same in Perso-arabic script (آبادان) not عبادان. thanks TheStrayDog (talk) 16:18, 18 July 2017 (UTC)
- look at -abad which says "Abad" is completely an Persian suffix and place name. Also hereby I add Mr. Dr. Hamid Hassani (@Hamid Hassani:) which is an expert linguist of both Persian and Arabic language to describe the truth of the name. May he wants to help us. thanks. TheStrayDog (talk) 16:25, 18 July 2017 (UTC)
- In Arabic Wikipedia, we use the common name, per ar:ويكيبيديا:عناوين_المقالات (similar to the English policy of en:WP:COMMONNAME). The name in the original language is mentioned in the article. In this specific case, the Arabs coined this word long before Wikipedia or the Internet were a thing, and the name stuck. It is not up to you or me to rename things based on our personal preferences. --Fjmustak (talk) 16:48, 18 July 2017 (UTC)
- @TheStrayDog:نام آبادان تا پیش از ۱۳۱۴ش به شکل عَبّادان نوشته میشد، که به پیشنهاد فرهنگستان ایران و تصویب دولت، رسمالخط امروزی را پیدا کرد. همهٔ مورخان و جغرافینویسان اسلامی که در گذشته یادی از این ناحیهٔ ایران کردهاند، همین رسمالخط یعنی عَبّادان را به کار بردهاند. آنان، عبادان را هم بر دِه یا شهر آبادان اطلاق کردهاند، هم بر خود جزیره.
This user does not know anything about this area and the history of the region, "عبادان" is the historical name, and the most popular name (Between the two names) used in Arabic books he want use Unknown name "آبادان"?
As an example
||The original name
Each language has its own names but this user does not understand.--جار الله (talk) 16:50, 18 July 2017 (UTC)
- @جار الله: I don't know about Iranian city Abadan?? I am an Iranian and I was brought up in Iran and I am a long-time member of Iran wiki-projects in Persian and English Wikipedia. I read a lot in school and university about my country and its history. Also I must mention it's you seems to don't know about Iranian city Abadan even a little bit. I was in Abadan and studied its history so much. Abadan is not even a too old city or historical and it was/is an industrial city which made by Iranian government and "Iranian National Oil" company which was "Anglo-Persian Oil Company". In front of Arab countries of Persian gulf such as U.A.E and Qatar or Bahrain which became independent countries in 1971, yes, Abadan is a historical city. It was made after discovering of oil in 20th century on that region and primly only was an Industrial city named by a Persian word "Abadan" by Iranian government which means prosperous city in Persian language and that's because it has a lot of oil resources. So because of that, the name even a little bit doesn't have any relation to any Arabic background. The people mostly are Persian, some other minorities from other Iranian ethnicities and some immigrants as foreign workers such as Indians and Pakistanis and Arabs (now they recognize themselves as Iranians). In the Arabic wikipedia two name mentioned on the lead for the Arabic article "عبادان" "عابادان" it would be like "أبادان" in Arabic language with Arabic letter "Hamzah" (أ) not with Arabic letter "Aayn" (ع) which change the Iranian/Persian meaning to an Arabic meaning and make an independent Arabic word irrelevant to the Iranian city. The rationale phrase could be true if it was only a simple pronunciation changing not spelling. In that situation as you said ابادان could be a true pronunciation not عبادان or عابادان which is an independent Arabic name doesn't related to Persian/Iranian name. TheStrayDog (talk) 17:32, 18 July 2017 (UTC)
- @جار الله: Nevertheless, We in Wikipedia just mention the "current name" not "old name" as the "name of the article" or on its lead title. We just mention "old name" on "Etymology" section. As I said it is an "Anti-Iranian act" and that's why they didn't work regularly about this city. Just "Arabization" of southern Iran which has the same situation like other cities I mentioned above. TheStrayDog (talk) 17:50, 18 July 2017 (UTC)
- @TheStrayDog: Did you read fa:آبادان the fawiki Version? I do not think you saw the article and you are talking without information, I know what I'm talking about because I'm a resident of these areas, You obviously do not know anything and just pretend that there is "Anti-Iranian act" but that will not support your claim, we in Arabic Wikipedia, we use the common name in our language, I think this topic will be difficult for you to understand.--جار الله (talk) 18:12, 18 July 2017 (UTC)
Population timeline of Iranian city AbadanEdit
TheStrayDog (talk) 18:35, 18 July 2017 (UTC)
Past RFCs on Arabic WikipediaEdit
Adding the above for history. --George Ho (talk) 19:21, 12 July 2017 (UTC)
TheStrayDog, have you notified the Arabic Wikipedia community about this RfC? Seems to me that the Arabic ArbCom has been inactive for a long, long time. Therefore, I guess RfC is our best shot for now, but I wonder whether they are willing to participate. In contrast, according to Arbitration Committee page, the Persian ArbCom still exists. Does Iran block or restrict Wikipedia in the country? Back on topic, may you communicate in Arabic? --George Ho (talk) 00:06, 26 June 2017 (UTC)
- @George Ho: Hello dear fellow. Yes, I personally notified an admin who is bilingual in both Persian and Arabic. Also he is an active user in Persian wiki too. I personally wrote my phone number and email as well as my social networks for other users to reach me outside of wikipedia better. He is wise man and a journalist as he said, who lives outside of Iran. Then he came up, and phoned my cellphone. The number was something like +44.... I found out he is calling via Skype. He told me to do not involve in Persian gulf stuff, He also resumed telling me if I want to be not banned in editing, I must stop resisting to edit or discuss in Persian gulf related articles or other disruptive edits like those. Finally he banned me "forever" after doing only about 20 edits in Arabic Wikipedia. Then I became angry and out of mind and threaten him in my talk, to be honest. So I left Arabic Wikipedia with anger and didn't say any Global admins anymore. Just because I thought they won't help to resolve these problems. After that I asked another bilingual user in English wiki to say who exactly is this admin in Arabic wiki. He responded me in my talk and claimed he has pan-Arabist tendency and belief and that's why they won't let users edit Persian related articles. So we went to Egyptian Arabic Wikipedia to peruse our goal which was being neutral and reliable. In the Egyptian Arabic Wikipedia there is no fanaticism against Persians or Iranians. I don't know why. I thought they will do the same, but vice versa, they supported reality and facts in their young wiki. That was why I tried to establish an association against racism or ethnicitism in Wikipedia which called Association of Wikipedians Who Dislike Clash of Civilizations in Wikipedia, which unfortunately is inactive right now .I must say to you that I believe that no one is responsible among admins in Arabic wiki. (All of the claimed information in above are documented ready to show). Thank you so much for your response. TheStrayDog (talk) 00:34, 26 June 2017 (UTC)
- Upon investigation, I read that you used the account ar:مستخدم:PersianGuyz (contributions), which is used as a reason for a block, compared to your contributions. May you refute this please? You should know that Arabic Wikipedia has its own sockpuppetry policy, right? I'm not trying to make you a bad guy or anything. I'm just investigating the matters here and try to hear both sides. I want to know whether you did this or not. If so, then I worry that case against Arabic Wikipedia would become frivolous. If not... then shall I ping the person who block you, Elph, about this? --George Ho (talk) 00:57, 26 June 2017 (UTC)
- @George Ho: Hi George! Do not lose the main subject of discussion please. You didn't dig deep inside. You just saw my talkpage. By the way, We are not discussing about me our my mistakes. We are discussing about resolving a big problem in a project. But I ensure you User:PersianGuyz which is my second account didn't do anything bad or any disruptive edit on articles. You can see. Go and view contributions of PersianGuyz in Arabic wiki. That was only an excuse for that admin to ban me for the second time. It was a Hunting. How about first time?? I only had 5-10 edits and I didn't used PersianGuyz??? Having a second account is not illegal. doing bad edits is illegal. But I said I didn't anything bad there using that. thanks. TheStrayDog (talk) 01:22, 26 June 2017 (UTC)
- ar:مستخدم:PersianGuyz (contributions) only has 10 edits which 3 of them are only in user-page. non of them is in any article but some of them in one talk page of an article. Even for more being clear, I wrote my edits in English . So despite this, how are you saying it was sockpuppetry??? Dig and search deep inside its contributions. Then you will find banning, both first and second account, is completely illegal and out of law. blessings! TheStrayDog (talk) 01:37, 26 June 2017 (UTC)
- I don't know. I lack understanding of either language, yet digging deeper would require understanding of either language. Here are other people whom you can contact with. BTW, May I notify Elph, so we can get the bottom of this? --George Ho (talk) 01:42, 26 June 2017 (UTC)
- @George Ho: Salute dear fellow! Only bringing Elph is not helpful to resolve. I think of it, because he will say on his interests, not reality or mine. You must bring a trustworthy Arabic user Who is completely neutral. Otherwise, he likely will only defend himself. Do not forget please, he is responsible and he is an admin. We must have him but not alone. With a neutral digger and investigator who knows Arabic. So see Requests for comment/Urgent review of Arabic Wikipedia state of affairs and administration it will be helpful to find out more about Arabic Wikipedia's situation and administration, these days. best wishes! TheStrayDog (talk) 01:54, 26 June 2017 (UTC)
- So as you said! I will bring @Meno25: to help to resolve this problem. He may want to help us. thanks. TheStrayDog (talk) 02:20, 26 June 2017 (UTC)
- @TheStrayDog: Sorry. Due to real life obligations, I am in a wikibreak till 6 July. In the mean time, you may wish to contact ar:User:Mervat Salman, ar:User:مصعب or ar:User:علاء to help resolve this issue. All are admins on arwiki. --Meno25 (talk) 06:44, 26 June 2017 (UTC)
- @Meno25: Salute on you, brother! your god bless you. If you are busy, so I will seek someone else. Do what you've gotta do. best wishes! However, I will add @Mervat Salman: and @علاء: (Aala)! May they want to help resolve this problem. thanks and blessings. TheStrayDog (talk) 21:22, 27 June 2017 (UTC)
Hello all. I banned this user in 24 March 2014 because I found out that this account has been created just for vandalism. In 2014 he had 6 edits and in 5 of them he just changed the name of the gulf that the Arabic community use Arabic Gulf for it.
After some months or maybe some years this user wrote a lot of things about me and about Arabic Wikipedia in fa.wiki. As he said, he had left his phone number in his user page. So I called him and I tried to discuss the matter with him. I told him that as a sysop in ar.wiki I have no problem to give him another chance but in other hand he has to promise me that he will never do what he did before. Due documentation reasons and because of our policies I asked him to write his request in his talk page. You can see our discussion here. I asked him to promise me and the community that he will does not edit any article, category, template, voting, discussion and any other pages or topics that is related directly or not directly to Arabian Gulf, for at least 6 months. In same time I told him that if he does not accept my offer, he can mention another sysop in his talk page and ask him to answer to his request but he said to me that he accept what I asked him to promise and I unblocked him in 1 July 2016. After less than one week he used his second account to do this edit that related directly to Arabian Gulf.
It’s all of the story. After the second ban he wrote in his talk page that he talk to me behalf on Iranian Ministry of Intelligence and Iranian cyber police. He said that I acted against Iranian national security and he will not leave me in peace and he will use what I said against me in the court.
Also he said that officers of Iranian Ministry of Intelligence will find me in Dubai and I have to be ready to meet them.--Abbas 22:54, 27 June 2017 (UTC)
- @Elph: Hello! dear Abbas I don't know who mentioned you to be here, but I would to thank him so much! As you said you believe I did mistake in Arabic Wikipedia, so you blocked me forever and that case was closed by you forever. Yes, if you believe it hardly, I would accept that strong belief and accept my mistake. But my mistake was entitled me to be banned on Arwiki "Forever"? I did only 22 edits there and You could ban me for such one or two year, not forever for 22 edits. but I insist I never did anything out of law. But generally, we don't talk about my mistakes because that case was closed by you, by banning me "Forever" there. This is meta-wiki and we are discussing about the administration problems in Arabic Wikipedia based on extreme fanaticism about Persian/Iranian stuff/users. You just said about Persian gulf. but you never read above completely or would not to see the reality which is sometimes harsh to see. Such as Abu Mosa's articles illegal edits on Arabic wiki which wrote "under administration of U.A.E" and just "claimed by Iran". That is vice versa as we can see the real matters in English Wikipedia. the reality about that islands which are claimed by U.A.E is that they are only "claimed by U.A.E not Administrated" and in other hand, the are administrating by Iran. What's is your response about this such illegal Forgery of reality??? If you never were aware of that please go and correct. If you will not you must be punished and dispossessed from your administration duty. so I will finally mention that we don't speak of me we are speaking and discussing about problems I mentioned above. You said Arabic community can use the term "Arabian gulf"? so what if Persian Wikipedia change the name of Arabian Sea? You will not try to repair the reality?? or Gulf of Oman which Iranians called it as "Sea of Makran"? We never changed the reality. You must be responsible for whatever you did in Arabic version of Persian Gulf Pro league. You Insisted not to write the name "Persian Gulf" and remained it as Iranian league which is its old name?? But in the same time you came in the Perisna wikipedia and tried to rename U.A.E's football league's new name which is "Arabian Gulf league" and you finally was successful on doing that!! We recognized the new name and respect the law and reject the fanaticism, but what did you do vice versa??. blessings. TheStrayDog (talk) 00:33, 28 June 2017 (UTC)
- @Elph: I would add @Ladsgroup: a Persian wiki's admin who is aware of your bad deeds in Arabic Wikipedia. When once you called Persian Wikipedians as Racists!!! and He came in meta and left a report of your behavior. and @Sa.vakilian: who understand Arabic and is aware of you, either . May they want to help us here! thanks. TheStrayDog (talk) 00:49, 28 June 2017 (UTC)
- Hellow all. According to Meno25 comment here i will share with you some informations about what is claimed by TheStrayDog against arabic wiki. although TheStrayDog talked with one or two admins he generalized his personal view on all ar.wiki admins and on the whole project claiming that there is no neutral admins! Regarding his claim about Persian Gulf Pro League i found that the arabic article is a literal transation for the name Iran Pro League i.e دوري المحترفين الإيراني so the claim of arabic wiki pan-Arabist or nationalistic tendency is absent. If the article were named دوري الخليج العربي a literal translation of Persian Gulf Pro League (because persian gulf is translated in arabic resources and maps into الخليج العربي literally Arabic gulf), then the claim could be right and discussible but this is not the case. Another thing is that fifa website in arabic provide the name الدوري الإيراني which we recommend (notice that arabic article title in ar.wiki is دوري المحترفين الإيراني with just differeing from fifa's name in the word المحترفين which is a literal translation for the word "pro" in english name) so we can notice that fifa arabic wibsite doses not provide the name دوري الخليج الفارسي which the user want to recommend without arabic resource and with contrary to the name which arabic fifa website provide. After this the claim that arabic wiki has nationalistic tendency has nothing to do with truth because of course we refuse renaming any article without arabic resource or in contrary with arabic resource (like ar. Fifa in this case). Regarding Parsian County article which named القابندية which is a literal translation for Gavbandi County, we can notice that the arabic article needs merging -before renaming- with the article مقاطعة بارسيان (a literal translation for Parsian County and also the 2nd part of arabic name from right to left as arabic were read مقاطعة بارسيان is identical to persian article name شهرستان پارسیان -the word مقاطعة is a literal translation for persian word شهرستان-.). So by taking what i mentioned above in consideration we can notice that if were a nationalistic anti-persian tendency in ar. Wiki as claimed, then you will not find an article with name which is a literal translation for the persian article (مقاطعة بارسيان in comparison with شهرستان پارسیان) but the claim is merely against the truth and has nothing to do with the situation in arabic wiki. Best regards---مصعب (talk) 09:32, 28 June 2017 (UTC)
- Thank you مصعب (don't know what it transliterates into) for explaining the situation and your perspective (should not imply anything bad). Question: Have any of you tried searching for third-party sources verifying the titling of the topics, like Google News, which is in Arabic language, which I don't understand? Also, how reliable are the sources? --George Ho (talk) 00:25, 29 June 2017 (UTC)
- The romanization of my username is Mosab. I think the user should go to talk pages of articles he think it should be renamed and provide arabic resources rather than claiming nationalization tendency without providing arabic resources. See the first result of google news that you provide it contain the name (الدوري الإيراني) which is part of the title at arabic wiki (دوري المحترفين الإيراني) with the difference of the word المحترفين which literally a translation of "pro" of the english title. So even google news provide the name which is most similar to arabic wiki title and far away from what the TheStrayDog claim (دوري الخليج الفارسي)--مصعب (talk) 10:33, 29 June 2017 (UTC)
- For those curious, the above link is of mobile version. Here's the desktop one. --George Ho (talk) 17:37, 29 June 2017 (UTC)
- @مصعب: All of the things you listed are excuses . Hey mosab, You forgot Abu Mosa Island's Article in Arabic wiki????? why???? You didn't see that???? I brought English page of FIFA this which is saying the name is Persian Gulf Pro League. The name has more than 12 years old and older was Persian Gulf Cup. How did you go and bring me Arabic which I never mentioned? It will accept my words that all Arabic wiki community has tendency to refuse. All of the references we have about Arabian Gulf are Arabic but we didn't say : "There is no Persian reference so we don't change!!!" We looked at those Arabic and English so we changed. So we know Arabic FIFA it's not a reliable reference because it's Arabic and Arabians started "Persian Gulf Naming Dispute", in 1960s not Persians. We don't have Persian version of that site, but if we had, I could prove my words with that????.. We know in this case, Arabic FIFA is not NEUTRAL and the writers has tendency and excuse to do not write the true name. but nevertheless, I will email Arabic FIFA to sync the name with English. How in English a name is X and Arabic users write it as Y?????? Because they like user:Elph has anti-Persian gulf tendency. I brought you English FIFA and for excuse, you went and find an "excuse" (arabic fifa). In Persian as we know Arabian Gulf league's name has no place, but it has an article in Persian wiki. Because we are not fanatical anti-Arabics.... We are defender of knowledge and reality, which you refuse it... We need third party and Persian community will insist in this case till forever to resolve it. TheStrayDog (talk) 20:34, 29 June 2017 (UTC)
- @George Ho: You can see Arabic version of Abu Mosa Island and see its differences among any other languages. Abu Mosa island (and two other islands) are Iranian islands. In the Arabic wiki which is seemed is pro-U.A.E's media and its supporter says: It belonged and Administrated by U.A.E and just claimed by Iran!!!! but in the reality and English wiki, French, Dutch, German etc. We read it as: "It administrated by Iran and (just) claimed by U.A.E". The Forgery of Reality . that's what I'm saying . we must do a right action against these non-neutral actions. It could be considered as Racism. I felt someone did Racists against me and knowledge. TheStrayDog (talk) 20:34, 29 June 2017 (UTC)
- You mean ar:جزيرة أبو موسى? --George Ho (talk) 20:40, 29 June 2017 (UTC)
- @George Ho: Yes, If you can not read. Please use google translate to understand Arabic. Thanks. TheStrayDog (talk) 20:45, 29 June 2017 (UTC)
- In Arabic wiki we depend on arabic resources in naming articles and not english because we are different language and separate project and the resources of the native language of our wiki has a priority over any other languages resources. When we talk about arabic title it is nonsense to talk about english or forign languages titles because what we are talking about is not an anglish name so your claim about arabic fifa has no proof and also does not match with naming policy in arabic wiki. Another thing is that other arabic resources like those of google news provide the name الدوري الإيراني which is identical to arabic fifa website and is most similar to arabic wiki title and far away from the claimed title (دوري الخليج الفارسي). I dont discuss abo mussa article because i have no background about its topic so i think it should be discussed in its talk page with arabic wiki community. Regards--مصعب (talk) 14:43, 30 June 2017 (UTC)
- @مصعب: Hello again Mosab. What do you mean? "You don't have any background about Abu Mosa Island??". You are an admin in Arabic wiki and an expert editor, not a simple new user. And you must be responsible for this possible "Forgery of Reality" in Arabic encyclopedia. So tell me, what is exactly our job in Wikipedia? seeing problems?? or resolving them? Arabic is your mother-tongue, not mine, so you can read that article easily which is not too long and hard to read (a stub). I called you to be here to resolve the problems, but, what did you do here? except just bringing excuses. If you can't do this, so tell me to call another user to resolve Abu Mosa and other article's problems. You didn't take it serious, because I think you don't want to. And the cause is what I said. Anti-Persian tendency in Arabic Wikipedia which I tried to prove it above. Thanks. TheStrayDog (talk) 23:49, 30 June 2017 (UTC)
- I mean that i use to edit medical and scientific articles so when i read abo musa article i found that there is no consensus about your controversial claim. Thats what i mean and therefore i advice you to discuss your claims in its talk page to reach a consensus and other than that even as native arab admin i cant operate without arabic wikipedia community consensus--مصعب (talk) 11:00, 1 July 2017 (UTC)
- @مصعب: I can't understand you Mosab. What do you mean? You mean a great lie needs consensus ???? or Forgery of Reality needs Arab Community's vote to revert?? By the way thank you for proving my words, as I said there is a permanent tendency in Arabic wiki community to dissolve this problem, not resolve. And anti-Iranian/Persian actions, no need to prove., just could see on anybody's monitor. If I come to Persian Wikipedia and write U.A.E's lands and Islands as Iranian, So I have that right to insist on that clear lie?? That situation is so clear, and doesn't need any consensus. TheStrayDog (talk) 03:12, 4 July 2017 (UTC)
Comment This is indeed both laughable and sad but never news! We Iranians are familiar with this whole pathetic pan-Arabist struggle to alter historical reality motivated by an inferiority complex that seems to still haunt some Arab states since their defeats against Israel in 1960s. The fact is even if Arabic Fifa and all (biased) pan-Arabic media call the Persian Gulf "Arab Gulf", they still can't discredit historical sources and scholarly works of history that record the original name! As a Muslim-first, Arab-sympathetic Iranian national, though, I recommend our Arab fellows to find more honest ways of restoring their historical sense of dignity as bombing the hell out of the poor Arab Yemen or altering historically reality don't seem to be particularly sane or Islamic ways of achieving that! Peace! --Expectant of Light (talk) 09:10, 1 July 2017 (UTC)
- Comment I don't know why the discussion here is "one sided" ? all this points is part of "Arabic Persian conflict" depending on a political, historical and proxy conflict between Iran and many Arab countries, and it's a very complicated situation (not as you think), if there are "Pan-Arabists" there are "Persianists" also, both side claim facts and have their own refs, the situation also look like a "Personal dispute" Between Abass and some Persian users --Ibrahim.ID ✪ 17:19, 3 July 2017 (UTC)
- @Ibrahim.ID: Hello, my brother Ibrahim. I could prove your words are only excuses. But anyway this complaint is only about Arabic wiki, not Persian. Let's don't lose the main subject. If you saw any bad edits about Arabian stuff in Persian Wikipedia, so bring me that edit and evidence to resolve. There is not even one thing there to be wrong in Persian wiki. Because there are Arabian users are active there, and are not banned to edit and resolve there. Unlike Arabic wiki, which Persian users mostly are banned or received bad judgments. I can't wait to say "Arabic-Persian political conflict" or "Donald Trump-Hillary Clinton conflict" or "Manchester United F.C-Chelsea F.C conflict" or "Qatar-Saudi Arabia conflict" or "Iraq-Kuwait war" or any conflict in the earth, such as political, cultural or etc., has nothing to do with an encyclopedia and its crew which its first principle is "being neutral". There is no respect for a racist in Persian Wikipedia. For example, if we were racists, we don't let an Arab user like User:Elph to come and change the new name of the U.A.E's football super league which became Arabian Gulf. We could say like Arabic wiki's Admin "There is no consensus among Persian users about that name, so we don't change" or something like that. Which Arabic wiki's did against Iranians and that became the topic of this complaint. Please read Wikipedia:Neutral to understand there is not only "Iran-Arab conflict" there is a lot of conflicts in the earth, even among Arabs themselves, such as recently "Qatar-Saudi Arabia conflict" or "Shia-Sunni historical conflict" or anything else. And all I want to say is "an Admin and a professional user must be neutral and not a part of a conflict in the Wikipedia". TheStrayDog (talk) 03:35, 4 July 2017 (UTC)
- Uh... What about the Arabic version of NPOV? Your opinions please? --George Ho (talk) 08:00, 4 July 2017 (UTC)
- And verifiability, identifying reliable sources, "no original research", NPOV, etc.? --George Ho (talk) 08:18, 4 July 2017 (UTC)
- @George Ho: They deleted the Arabic version of Persian Gulf Forever based on the phrase which possibly means: "It is Iranian propaganda". But they didn't discuss on its talk page how is it propaganda? It's just a political and protest song. Where is the WP:NPOV in Arabic wiki? Rules are only for Iranians or Americans? What about Arabic wiki community? It seems they (admins) have no Idea about being neutral. George, Let's continue the discussion about Abu Mosa Island and Greater and Lesser Tunbs because their situation is worse than that in Arabic wiki. They claimed its administration belongs to U.A.E, but as we can see English wiki or other wikis or references, it is not true. They are not Emirati islands, They are Iranians. TheStrayDog (talk) 10:46, 5 July 2017 (UTC)
- @Ibrahim.ID: What I said is a shared personal observation as an Iranian expressed in good-faith. And it is also supported by the Persian Gulf naming dispute entry. There might be pan-Iranists (or "Persianists" as you call them) on Persian Wikipedia and I have personally encountered some but these are mostly secular anti-establishment editors. But in Persian Wikipedia, Iranians with Islamist tendencies also seem to have made a large presence recently, hence the two factions can create a sort of counter-balance against undue bias by either side. But I don't know whether you have a similar "opposition" in Wiki Arabi to balance biased edits influenced by the mainstream Arab political establishment propaganda. Having all that said, I don't have anything to contribute to this dispute beyond what I said above. --Expectant of Light (talk) 09:02, 4 July 2017 (UTC).
- Comment This RfC appears to be frivolous, and lacks accuracy (perhaps due to a language barrier). While the Arabic Wikipedia is nowhere near the utopian encyclopedia we'd like it to be, great efforts are made to keep it as neutral as possible. I will attempt to respond to the charges here:
- Abu Musa: The Arabic article has undergone some considerable changes since the RfC, and the lede looks better than it did before June 24. However, it wasn't anywhere near as bad as claimed... It just said that it belongs to Sharja Emirate, and has been occupied by Iran since 1971. In the following sentence, it says that it is currently part of the Iranian Hormozgan Province, that is claimed by the UAE.
- Persian Gulf Pro League The Arabic article is titled Iranian Pro League, but in the lede, it is stated that it is also called theh 'Persian Gulf League'. Arabic sources, such as FIFA, name it as the Iranian League. In fact the official(?) website cited by the English article www.iranleague.ir as well as the Iranian FIFA affiliate refer to the league as the Premier League (لیگ برتر). So this appears to be a non-issue.
- Gavbandi or Parsian Province: There is a merge request for two articles, one with the old name and one with the new...
- Persian Gulf: There is an article on the English Wikipedia about the naming dispute, I suggest the claimant read it. The common name of that body of water in Arabic is the Arabian Gulf, regardless of what it is called in any other language. It is common for multiple names of the same body of water to exist in different languages, en:English Channel and fr:Manche (mer) for example.
- Ahwaz I don't know where the claimant gets the idea that the Arabic article is "Arabized"... The article is title "الأهواز" (with a soft h), while in the body also saying that it was also called by Arabs "الأحواز" (with a hard h), with the etymology of both words. The article cites historical documents calling it "الأهواز" (soft h)
- Racism allegation First, this allegation is specifically against an individual editor. Second, Elph does not directly call the editors racists, but is saying (in a comment about using Persian letters) that the Persian Wikipedia forbids the usage of the Arabic Ya (ي), and claims that it is based on racist tendencies, and then goes on to give an example on these racist tendencies in this article on the appropriation of Iranian cultural and spiritual heritage. This is sort of a reverse of this very RfC that paints the whole Arabic Wikipedia as an anti-Persian encyclopedia.
- Deletion of Persian Gulf Forever song it was deleted for lack of notability. The official song on YouTube has been watched 32K times (it's been up since 2010). In addition to Farsi, the article exists in English and Mazanderani (both written by the author of this RfC). Also the claim that it was deleted by Elph is false. If this is a personal issue against Abbas, please say so.
- Finally, I have no idea what the following statement means: I am thinking of pushing Arabic Wikipedia as a tool of pressure against Iranian government or people for some reasons related to Arab governments or political issues, outside. If it's true, It is a non-encyclopedic affair. But I hope and believe it is not true, so investigation will show us its reality. --Fjmustak (talk) 12:34, 18 July 2017 (UTC)
Some supporting cluesEdit
I tried to share my editing experience in Arabic Wikipedia. There, some of the admins are acting as if they are ruling their own land. For the sake of clarity, I tried to provide you with some examples were other users were involved so that they can be asked for their viewpoints if needed.
The following cases, which I think can be worthy of attention, needs to be investigated:
I added the picture of protesting kids to the 2017 Aleppo suicide car bombing and مستخدم:باسم reverted me saying: "we don't make Propaganda for the Syrian and Iranian government here." This is while the pics were certainly necessary for keeping NPOV. Same pics were added to the Persian and English articles and no one objected the addition. Also, I really don't know what the connection between adding images of Syrian children protesters to famine with propaganda for the Iranian regime is.
I translated a section of the Iran-Iraq war, the first part of this section: “Use of chemical weapons by Iraq”, and added them to the Arabic article and باسم removed all the materials at once alleging the well sourced material were Public propaganda of the Iranian regime. Also he wrote in my discussion page: “Immediately stop writing for things in favor of the Iranian regime and from Iran's point of view. If you write about Iraq using chemical weapons against Iran, do not forget to write down the number of Iraqi casualties because of Iran. If you do not stop I will stop you immediately”. After a discussion I re-added the whole section (“Use of chemical weapons by Iraq”) but he still objected the title of the section. He believed that "Iran" needed to be mentioned in the section title. So, I changed the title to demonstrate there were unproved allegations regarding Iran's use of chemical attacks (which was in accordance with the reliable sources). However, he changed the title to "Iran's use", i.e. Iran had used the chemical warfare. Finally, he pushed his viewpoint and did not accept that we could not say "Iran' use" and we had to say "Allegations of Iran's use" as the allegations were never proved.
We were discussing to take the news of the funeral air raid to the main page. باسم stood against the involved users and admins seriously. He accused users in favor of having the news on the main page of being biased, while other users said that the incident were important and almost 700 people were killed or injured and that the work were based on the guidelines. However, he still stood against all of us and said he would remove the news even if it was put hundred times. Then the admin محمد أحمد عبد الفتاح replied: “You are not discussing the news itself but want to delete it based on the personal goals of the storyteller. The debate on this basis is not about the application of any policies”. In fact he was objecting the user, not the news itself. In other words, he was prohibiting the news apparently because of his personal problems with the user in favor the news. And finally nobody can add the news to the “in the News” section of the main page.
In this case باسم Immediately removed the article while a big number of users and admins confirmed the Notability of the article, A demonstration that reflected a lot in various media in the world. Also باسم were accused of Racism and national and sectarian bias, by some users, like "izoozo". I said: the rapid removal of this article is contrary to the policy of Criteria for speedy deletion. باسم said: I will delete it repeatedly, This encyclopedia will not be a media poster for Iran or any other party. And I really didn't know Again what the connection between "Demonstration of the square of the seventy" with propaganda for the Iranian regime is. And even some users were surprised by his behavior.
Removing the articlesEdit
Admins such as باسم، سامي الرحيلي elph ، removed some of the articles which had English and Persian versions (i.e. they were probably notable) alleging that they were not notable enough. The articles included those of Iranian notable military personnel such as Hassan Bagheri the young commander of Iran in Iran-Iraq wartime and the founder of the intelligence department of IRGC and was its first ground force commander, Farzad Esmaeeli the current commander of the Iranian Air Defense Force and etc. I don't know what their self-made criteria was regarding notability! I know that notability needs to proved locally, but in one of the funny cases they removed article Demolition of al-Baqi alleging that al-baqi were not destructed and just the domes were destructed!!! (I invite you to see the English version Demolition of al-Baqi and check the various sources proving the demolition).
It might be very funny for you to see that there's an article in ar.wikipedia entitled “The dispute over the name of the ‘’’Arabian’’’ Gulf" while almost in all other Wikis "Persian gulf" is used in the title instead.
Anyway one day I notice a map reading "Arabic gulf" and found another historical map reading "Persian gulf" and inserted that just beneath the former one. However, "Elph" removed the pic and said: Your edit is controversial. Discuss it in talk page first. Days later, a user added added two maps with "Arabic gulf" remark and no one objected him.--Mbazri (talk) 10:50, 8 July 2017 (UTC)
As a native speaker of Arabic, I have just thoroughly checked most of the evidence provided by the OP as well as the main points of the discussion above. There are many articles and issues that are being raised here all at once, and what I find is that some of them are indeed true and problematic, while some others are simply miscommunicated and/or incorrectly interpreted. Before I go on with my comment, I will note that Arabic Wikipedia has no official ArbCom (which was agreed to be cancelled years ago) neither any similar panel that can be responsible of resolving conflict situations. Hence, all conflicts on Arabic Wikipedia are solely resolved by community's conversations, which will have to be the case here as well.
I will refer to the issues that I looked most thoroughly into. Firstly, OP (TheStrayDog) has stated that he was banned "forever" after doing only about 20 edits in Arabic Wikipedia. I am just looking at these edits for the first time, and they practically seem to be a form of vandalism. All his edits in the article namespace are literally about changing the name of the Arabian Gulf to the Persian Gulf on random pages. This naming issue has been comprehensively discussed on Arabic Wikipedia beforehand, and, in short, the name was agreed to be fixed as the Arabian Gulf. Which might no be the historical name of this body of water indeed, but it is what we refer to it with in the entire Arabic-speaking region (most Arabs won't even recognize what the Persian Gulf term means). Therefore, OP's edits were a mere violation of the Arabic community's census, and, as far as I can say, user:Elph was trying to prevent this violation of persisting. On the other hand, the only other thing OP's edits contributed to Arabic Wikipedia are strange talkpage messages to a handful of users, which are apparently expressions of gratitude for those users' contributions that OP considered as non Pan-Arabist.
Secondly, Abu Musa's article. OP states that in Arabic Wikipedia they wrote it: "under rule of United Arab Emirates". With my perfectly native tongue of Arabic, I will translate the first two sentences of the Arabic article as follows: «Abu Musa is one of six islands that form the Strait of Hormuz Archipelago, in the southern part of the Arabian Gulf, and, along with the islands of Lesser and Greater Tunb, is undergoing a sovereignty dispute by both the UAE and Iran. The island was occupied by Iran on 1971, and was administratively attached to Hormozgan Province, while the UAE is still claiming it as a territory of the Sharijah Emirate.» I fail to see how this is claiming that the island is under the "rule of the United Arab Emirates" by any chance.
Thirdly, all Persian Gulf-related issues raised here are irrelevant, since these articles merely refer to the common name of this body of water in the Arabic-speaking region (that is, the Arabian Gulf), and hence they should stay the way they are. One problem raised by the Op though, concerning the primary Perisan Gulf article on Arabic Wikipedia, is definitely valid since the original name is not even mentioned on the article's introduction (it is mentioned in the etymology's section, though). This is a problem for sure, and someone from Arabic Wikipedia should start a discussion to resolve it. However, the OP raises another irrelevant point by referring to the article of Ahvaz on Arabic Wikipedia, which is simply titled with the city's name common spelling in Arabic language, and it is actually only slightly different from the Persian spelling. OP also claims that the Persian Gulf Pro League article on Arabic Wikipedia have met insisting not to change the real old name of Iranian league which is officially Persian Gulf Pro League. I have just read the archived talkpage and found that the article's Arabic name is actually "The Iranian Pro League" which, as the discussion's participants concluded, is the most commonly used name in Arabic language media and hence it makes sense for it to be the article's name.
Finally, as for the deletion of the Persian Gulf Forever (Song) article on Arabic Wikipedia, I cannot say for sure why it was deleted since I do not enjoy my admin status anymore (and therefore I can't check the deleted version of the page). However, I completely agree that the stated reason of deletion is very concerning. It literally translates as: «This article is a mere Iranian propaganda and a deliberate provocation.» This is by no means a valid reason for deletion, and this case needs to be closely looked into.
--Abbad (talk) 13:44, 9 July 2017 (UTC).
- @عباد ديرانية: Another user who defends Arabic wiki like a gladiator! and doesn't want to accept the problem "Forgery of Reality on an encyclopedia". You said about "Abu Mosa Island" article so much long, and said it is fine. But I prefer to say it is not true. Just because we can see brightly the flag of U.A.E as its ruler and flag of Iran just as its claimer on the infobox of the island. What are you saying??? my Arabic is basic but that's enough to find out what is a forgery of reality and what is really true in Arabic lang. By the way, as I said it is not only Abu Mosa, there are other islands' article called Greater and Lesser Tunbs which has the same situation, and need to investigate. You said all articles which named after "Persian Gulf ..." must change their names?? I can't understand you. Because we mentioned only a song article not body of water. A song which named after Persian gulf and then your fanatic admin came and deleted it without any discussion. It clearly is a WP:censor. As @George Ho: came and commented about it, I would say that based on the basic rules of this encyclopedia as I know, we must be neutral, and do not involve on ethnic-conflicts. Your actions, like those you did on Arabic wiki can encourage other wikis and wikipedians to involve themselves on ethnic conflicts and do not be neutral. which will be a great problem for the encyclopedia. TheStrayDog (talk) 15:51, 9 July 2017 (UTC)
Hi, Abbad. Nice to see ya! Mind if you can also check PersianGuyz's contributions please? Thanks. --George Ho (talk) 20:18, 9 July 2017 (UTC)
- @George Ho: Yah, It will be nice of him, if he does it for us to find out what was wrong with that account. It didn't edit on even 1 article. It just discussed on talk-pages, but User:Elph banned and blocked it "forever". why? can you describe that why it was blocked from editing when didn't anything bad? TheStrayDog (talk) 11:38, 10 July 2017 (UTC)
- جار الله and/or Farah, may you please check and summarize PersianGuyz's contributions? Thanks. --George Ho (talk) 20:33, 18 July 2017 (UTC)
- @George Ho: You'll find the reasons In the user's talk page.--جار الله (talk) 20:47, 18 July 2017 (UTC)
- @George Ho: PersianGuyz contributions were mainly to the talk page of the Iranian Premiere League, informing of the name change to Persian Gulf League, adding a link to the English FIFA page about Iran, and asking Elph to move the article, and saying that we cannot "censor" the name change, and that we must be "neutral". (All the communication is in English, so you can read it for yourself). The user then wrote on Mbazri's talk page (in Farsi) about renaming the league (what I understood from a machine translation of the message). He then created his user page. His final contribution was a message on المتمرد's talk page thanking him (in English) for contributing to the Persian Gulf Forever article. After those changes, he was blocked for being a sockpuppet for TheStrayDog (previously known as AmirMuhammad1). --Fjmustak (talk) 21:12, 18 July 2017 (UTC)
- @Fjmustak: Thank you so much dear Fjmustak for your helps. Your log is 100 percent right and honest. But User:Elph never proved how PersianGuyz was a sockpuppet. Account didn't act as a sockpupet or trolling/spamming or something else. We know having a second account itself, is not illegal in Wikipedia but doing and acting like a troll or spamming with it is illegal on wiki. So I didn't troll anybody on arwiki with that account I didn't ever make mistake with that. I just thanked users for helping me for their helps and I talked on article talk-pages about article and did not troll and spam with that account. So I don't know why did he ban me forever? TheStrayDog (talk) 21:26, 18 July 2017 (UTC)
- @PersianGuyz:, you had an agreement with Abbas that you "promise Arabic community that you will be a good citizen in our wiki and you will don't do what you did in two years ago again. If you do this promise and promise us that you don't edit any article, category, template, voting, discussion and any other pages or topics that is related directly or not directly to Arabian Gulf, for at least 6 months then I can unblock you on my responsibility. In this 6 months if you violate our deal then you will be blocked again. If you don't accept my offer then you can mention another sysop here and ask him to answer to your request". You used the sockpuppet account to do just that, and Abbas made it clear that's why he blocked your sockpuppet account! @George Ho:, I am happy to be of assistance if anything needs to be translated, however, I feel that this RfC has gone on for *way* too long with incoherent allegations all over the place. --Fjmustak (talk) 21:44, 18 July 2017 (UTC)
Hmm... same thoughts, Fjmustak. TheStrayDog, you're welcome to use English Wikipedia if you wish, but (no offense) I want to be sure whether you're innocent from sockpuppetry. Before pursuing the matters further, let's ask someone else with CheckUser access to verify both accounts. Shall we? --George Ho (talk) 21:53, 18 July 2017 (UTC)
- And btw, @George Ho:, Elph told him that a CU investigation proved that both accounts belong to the same person. Here's the investigation. The user does not dispute that he owned both accounts. --Fjmustak (talk) 22:06, 18 July 2017 (UTC)
- Got it, Fjmustak. And, while TheStrayDog/AmirMuhammad1/PersianGuyz matter is resolved, what about others' complaints about Arabic Wikipedia, like Reza Amper's? --George Ho (talk) 22:12, 18 July 2017 (UTC)
- The Iranian generals may or may not pass notability criteria (the nature of Wikipedia is such that some notable articles get deleted and other non-notable ones remain, in Arabic, in English, and elsewhere). Articles get deleted and restored all the time. I cannot confirm or deny that the accusations about the motive behind deletion are valid, but they appear to be personal in nature. It would be interesting to see the interaction between Mbazri and Reza Amper on one hand, and the accused editors on the other for some background. --Fjmustak (talk) 22:38, 18 July 2017 (UTC)
- Renaming of Iranian city "Ahvaz" which was Arabized in Arabic wiki
as an user from ahwaz, i know my city name and it's in Arabic (الأحواز), you can see the arabic references here and i can bring more.
- Deletion of Persian Gulf Forever (Song) in Arabic wiki
The song not compatible with arwiki Notability.--جار الله (talk) 01:17, 10 July 2017 (UTC)
Al-Arabiya and other pan-Arab sourcesEdit
- @جار الله: references you listed above are not independents from politics and their state-governments, so can not be considered as "WP:Neutral" about Iranian topics. Also they made a lot of WP:Controversial issues on their articles. For example; I can bring an article from Al-Arabia (which is a Saudi-Government's pan-Arabstate TV) that says Iranian-Kurdish people are not Iranian people(?!) here (in Persian Al Arabiya), is this reliable? so you want go to Arabic wiki and bring those lies and put them on articles as "reliable" sources???. So if you do it I will doubt if you are a professional editor or not, you will be blocked. It means those you mentioned above can be sort of non-neutral and propaganda references. They are mostly trying to broadcast ideologies of related to pan-Arabism which may not consider realities or facts. They would say "Arabian Gulf" of "Al-Ahwaz" or finally: "Iranian people do not exist on the map of the earth right now!", so we can not cite them as notable sources, because of those unreliable issues they made. Meanwhile Al-Arabiya is not a neutral and reliable source about some topics such as Iran, Qatar, Hezbollah, Muslim Brotherhood etc,. (right now). If you want to cite those Saudi medias, we could too cite some Iranian non-neutral (About Arabs) anti-Saudi state-medias (such as: Tasnim, Fars News Agency) which will make a trans-wiki-edit-war, and it's wrong way to edit articles. They say "Bahrain and Yemen are Shia and non-Sunni countries and Saudi government made ISIS and Al-Qaeda...." So please do not refer to unreliable sources about Iranian topics as we don't it about Arabian topics vice versa. And finally about Persian Gulf Forever (Song), how an article which has articles on other wikis such as English, Persian etc., is not notable? nevertheless, you never prove it on its talk page, and deleted it minutes after it creation. It is notable and we even have reliable sources like "BBC Persian" and "Radio Farda". TheStrayDog (talk) 11:18, 10 July 2017 (UTC)
- where Al-Arabiya in my Resources??
here some book in arabic
About the song even Ebi Do not sing the song in Arab countries ابی در کنسرتهای مختلف در دبی از خواندن ترانه خلیج فارس خودداری کرده بود and The song not compatible with arwiki Notability As you see.--جار الله (talk) 12:33, 10 July 2017 (UTC)
- @جار الله: You said "even Ebi doesn't sing it in Dubai?" What do you want to conclude from that sentence? Ebi betrayed his own song and his nation? He didn't sing it because the pan-Arab government of U.A.E banned people from using the name "Persian Gulf" and Ebi was afraid if he sang that song, he couldn't resume singing in Dubai anymore. Dubai has second largest population of Iranians outside Iran. Ebi said in his response like: "That I thought Dubai is nearest place to my country and I can't go there so I forced to do not sing it because I want government let us continue singing in Dubai which has second largest number of Iranians after Iran itself. and don't ban us or make problems for Iranian singers." After that, "Sepideh" another Iranian singer sang that song and U.A.E government banned her to have concert in Dubai anymore. By the way, we are professional users and we don't judge based on act of pan-Arab and fanatical governments. We judge based on facts. As I said all opposed media to Iranian government are not eligible to consider as neutral only on WP:controversial issues, not all. CNN and FOX news are one of them and on some topics are not completely neutral, because American government is an ally to Saudi Arabia and It may influence on that state-related TV of USA. Even some American communities such as African-Americans mentioned FOX news and CNN as non-neutral about them. BBC is a possible neutral source because its related state is not on strong conflict with Iran or somewhere else. TheStrayDog (talk) 14:02, 10 July 2017 (UTC)
- As you said singing of "Persian Gulf Forever (Song)" made controversy in Dubai, so based on WP:Controversial it must have article on Arabic wiki. Because U.A.E government banned it from singing in Dubai, and made it as a famous topic. It shows its eligibility to have article in Arabic wiki. TheStrayDog (talk) 14:08, 10 July 2017 (UTC)
- I say Ebi not sing the song in Arab countries Perhaps because it is not known in the Arab world, and i did not say the U.A.E government banned it and can you bring neutral sources prove your claim?, I said the song does not compatible with arwiki Notability every wikis has their own notability, is this difficult to understand?, About CNN source, You see any source that contradicts your opinion is not neutral, isn't Russia an ally of Iran? see هل تسعى إيران لتهجير عرب الأحواز واستبدالهم بـ"الفرس"؟ en:RT (TV network) and about BBC نشطاء أحوازيون يحتجون أمام مكتب الـ(بي بي سي) this mean BBC not completely neutral.--جار الله (talk) 14:47, 10 July 2017 (UTC)
- @جار الله: Dear fellow, I can't still understand your logic on this sentence which you said on it illogically: "I say Ebi not sing the song in Arab countries Perhaps because it is not known in the Arab world, and i did not say the U.A.E government banned it and can you bring neutral sources prove your claim?". I said it is illogical to me just because of some issues which are so clear such as:
- The Persian song will be sang for Persian people of Dubai (not Arabs) So it don't need to be known among Arabs.
- Ebi is not an Arab singer to be known among Arab community. He is a Persian language singer and based on his songs he is a patriot and anti-establishment singer.
- Dubai is a multinational city and 10% of U.A.E are of Iranian ancestry.
- The U.A.E government announced people to avoid using of the name "Persian Gulf". They even deleted the name "Persian gulf" in historical map of Dubai museum inexpertly which is so old. So they would not let Ebi or other singers to sing a song about defending the historical name "Persian Gulf". Ebi have to avoid singing "Persian gulf Forever" in Dubai-U.A.E, just because of resuming his shows on the second largest population of Iranians outside the country which are in U.A.E and do not lose that. If he wouldn't do that the government simply will deport him from there and ban him to sing and have a concert there.
It is so clear, reasonable and obvious I think. If you want more I will bring you online evidences to prove my words. So I wish the case had become clear enough to you. thanks TheStrayDog (talk) 21:17, 12 July 2017 (UTC)
- All you said does not prove that the UAE banned the song, you have a good point that the song is for the Iranians And the Arabs do not know it, what is the benefit of an unknown song in the Arab world in the Arabic Wikipedia? and the song does not compatible with arwiki Notability, I think I explained to you the reason of deletion the Song and "الأحواز" name, thanks for understanding.--جار الله (talk) 21:53, 12 July 2017 (UTC)
- @جار الله: The benefit ?? we don't edit based on benefit of Arab world. But its benefit is about "Persian gulf naming dispute". Also it is an artistic response to the political dispute which made by some Arab governments in late 1960s. If you read about the song you will find it aimed Arab governments and politicians who faked the name "Persian gulf" as "Arabi*an gulf" and its lyrics aimed directly the U.A.E government's claim over the Iranian three strategic islands in the Persian gulf (Abu Mosa and Greater and Lesser Tunbs). The song has related to Arab world and is a political and protest response song about "Persian gulf naming dispute" which didn't made by Indians or Americans, but Arabs. So it has notability to be on Arabic wiki as a controversial song related to "Persian gulf naming dispute" which made by some Arab governments in late 1960s. TheStrayDog (talk) 14:32, 18 July 2017 (UTC)
- @جار الله: I brought a translated part of the song for you to find out how it is directly related to the Arab world and has notability to be on Arabic Wikipedia. You can read it here:
A translated part of the lyricsEdit
With every look
I kiss the sky of this land (Iran), for thousand times
I take my breath from White River, the sky of Caspian Sea and the Persian Gulf Forever
My gaze takes brightness from the Greater and Lesser Tunbs and Abu Musa (Islands) TheStrayDog (talk) 14:43, 18 July 2017 (UTC)
- @TheStrayDog: I know Persian and this song in arwiki "موضوع غیرقابل توجه است", Is it clear?.--جار الله (talk) 15:21, 18 July 2017 (UTC)
- @جار الله: Yes, Of course you know Persian, so that's why you can change Persian stuff in Arabic Wikipedia and make them Arabic. You said in Persian to me that it doesn't have notability. I don't know why? to humiliate me? I can't understand your English so you don't need to repeat it in Persian. But I don't understand that based on what rule you said that? I said my words based on WP:Controversial. The song performed or parodied a long-time in Dubai, Qatar, Kuwait and some other Iranian diaspora in Arabian countries. And finally in 2010s U.A.E government doesn't let singers perform it in Dubai (U.A.E) and banned people from using the name "Persian gulf". The song has an significant background and performed and parodied several times inside and outside the country. The song is about Persian and Arabian community and is a political and protest song and artistic response of Iranian community to Arabian governments which wanted to change the historical name from late 1960s to now. Now tell me When a song about "Persian Gulf naming dispute" (which made by Arabs) doesn't relate to Arabian community what kind of topic does? Even some Indian songs have articles in Arabic wikipedia you mean they met WP:Notability?? and Persian Gulf Forever (song) not?? and in the same time a Persian gulf naming dispute related article which directly is related to Arab community doesn't have notability?? Please try to be more logical. I think in this case you are 100 percent not. thanks TheStrayDog (talk) 20:47, 18 July 2017 (UTC)
- @TheStrayDog: if the U.A.E government doesn't let singers perform it in Dubai how become Ebi every year sing in Dubai?
- so that's why you can change Persian stuff in Arabic Wikipedia and make them Arabic.!!!
- I have not edited any article in this regard but you are always claiming things you do not have information about.
- I can't understand your English so you don't need to repeat it in Persian?
- In any language you want me to write?
- Can you explain?.--جار الله (talk) 21:52, 18 July 2017 (UTC)
- @جار الله: Dear Jar-Allah! I said "You" I meant "the society of arwiki" not "you" directly. I have a certain response to you. You mentioned that act of Persian Wikipedia. But you forgot that "except Arabic Wikipedia, any other Wikipedias such as English, French, German, Italian, Persian, Dutch etc... never ever recognized and won't recognize the real name of the GCC because it is a try to change the map and in some "political" issues like that "an encyclopedia" like wiki, must be "neutral" about it. So I can go and make a council and would change the name of U.A.E to United Persian Emirates!! In that time, wiki could change the name of that country? That's so complicated and related to the "World Atlas" and international law. It is not renaming of a Shop or Drugstore or a football league. That's why except Arabic wiki, other wikis never wrote the name. Even Amir of Qatar who is member of the GCC in his late "English" interview called the GCC as the Gulf Corporation Council and did not use the name "Arabian Gulf Corporation Counsel". It is the cause of what you said. you claimed Persian wiki is not neutral too, like wiki Arabic. But I must say it is only a priceless "claim". because as I said above, we already changed the new name of football league of U.A.E which became "Arabian Gulf League" as right as it is now. It means we are neutral and don't have any tendency against Arabs. But vice versa you will see a lot on Arabic wiki against us. But the GCC is a different case from the league it is a try to change the international map of the world and its "Atlas". An encyclopedia which recognizes the name "Persian Gulf" for that body of water, can not translate another name such as Arabian Gulf Council. It would be Persian Gulf Council or in a so much neutral way it would become "The Gulf...". You can not change the reality in the history of English or German etc., languages which only recognize the name Persian Gulf since hundreds of years. Please do not blame Wikipedia for not changing the reality of the World Atlas. TheStrayDog (talk) 09:38, 19 July 2017 (UTC)
- If the current name is in your favor, you want us to use the current name and If the historical name is in your favor, you want us to use the historical name, Is this logic, we tell you we do not use no historical or current name We use the most famous name in Arabic, unfortunately I will not be able to discuss you more I am busy and you just want to accuse others without understanding the policies of Arabic Wikipedia.--جار الله (talk) 10:23, 19 July 2017 (UTC)
- @جار الله: You don't want to understand me, because you are just defending an irrational thing. It is an intelligent way to change the name of the most historical name of the world map "Persian Gulf" established by shameful, anti-humanity, racist "Pan-Arab" and anti-Persian-heritage tendencies. Even "Turki al-Faisal" who is an Arab extreme nationalist prince of Saudi Arabia government, in his late 2017 appearance in the People's Mujahedin of Iran's (an opposition group to Iranian Islamic rep Govt.) annual ceremony (in Paris) called the Persian gulf as "Al-Khalij al-Arabi val-Farsi" (English:The Arabian and Persian Gulf) which means even "Turki Al Faisal" is aware of its historical fact. The political intelligent games mustn't push Wikipedia into a non-neutral state. As you can see Mass-Media of the English language (and others') call "Arabian Gulf Coop. Council" as "The Gulf Cooperation Council" deleting the term Arabian. As the same act other Wikipedias did. It is not fault of the Persian Wikipedia. It is primarily a shame for those who are trying to change one of the world's heritages. Persians never tried to change the name Arabian Sea (above Indian ocean) into "Persian Sea", or Gulf of Oman into "Gulf of Iran" or something like that (But as we know both Persian Gulf and Gulf of Oman called as Persian Sea in the some significant historical maps). When UAE's government awkwardly censored the name Persian gulf on Dubai museum's; you think they are concerned about culture or being neutral? Those kinda dictatorial and feudal and racist governments are just concerned about their interests, not free thought or culture. And now their interests is on being fanatic. The UAE governments banned using the historical name "Persian Gulf", as a racist act, like Saddam Hussein who believed That God Should Not Have Created: Persians, Jews, and Flies. But sorry, this is an encyclopedia that I hopefully say it belongs to the free world, that let its users challenge "fanatical lies" and instead let them establish "facts" and "knowledge" in its articles. thanks. TheStrayDog (talk) 01:49, 20 August 2017 (UTC)
English sources used in Arabic Wikipedia?Edit
Aside from all of the above, are English-language sources used in Arabic Wikipedia as well? If some Arabic-language sources are not reliable, why not use English ones instead? --George Ho (talk) 16:36, 10 July 2017 (UTC)
- @George Ho:, while Arabic language sources are naturally preferred (where available), it is not uncommon for English (or other language) sources to be used in articles. --Fjmustak (talk) 13:03, 18 July 2017 (UTC)
- Thanks. Have sources in other non-English European languages been also used there, Fjmustak? In any other languages? --George Ho (talk) 13:54, 18 July 2017 (UTC)
- Sure @George Ho:. I myself have used Spanish, Dutch, French, etc... Here's an article with Dutch and Spanish references. Here's one with Persian. --Fjmustak (talk) 15:22, 18 July 2017 (UTC)
- Hmm... an Arabic version of an Iranian cyclist, en:Bahman Golbarnezhad. Nice! TheStrayDog, is this convincing otherwise? --George Ho (talk) 15:32, 18 July 2017 (UTC)
- @George Ho: Thank you so much George. You made me find out and learn that Arabic Wikipedia renamed and censored the birthplace name of Golbarnejad which is Abadan an Iranian city in southern Iran, the same act they did with Ahvaz and some other places (which are a completely Persian names). It is written like عبادان on Arabic Wikipedia without any mentioning of its real name. عبادان is an Arabic name and never ever related to the legal, historical, etymological, and governmental name of the Iranian city Abadan (Persian:آبادان). We must add a supporting issue about Abadan which will make the problem they made so much broader and complicated. I am so much shocked by this kind of vast systematic Arabization of Iranian/Persian stuff and so confused. but thank you George because you was/are so helpful here even so more than me. We must resolve it asap. They used Arabic letter ع instead of Persian letter آ . The cause is ع changes the Persian meaning and will make it an Arabic name (Arabization, related to Arabization of Persian gulf's name and some other Iranian cities and islands I mentioned above). Arabic name will make a possible fake history and background as they made for Iranian city called Ahvaz (I mentioned above) and Persian gulf. Also they before insist on not changing the true new name of "Parsian county" in southern Iran which is a Persian name. Both of the names, former and new name are Persian and the cause of not changing possible (in my thpught) is "Parsian" means Persian in Persian language And will make it as Farsian (Arabic: فارسیان) within Arabic letters because Arabic script doesn't have the letter "P" and it spelled as "F" (ف). "Farsian" which has the same meaning (=Persian) in Arabic language. Anti-Persian action I meant. thanks again TheStrayDog (talk) 15:59, 18 July 2017 (UTC)
- Again, some more outlandish claims about "renaming and censoring" names. It is very common in languages to have different versions of place (or people's) names. This is especially true when the name is an historical name that is still commonly used. On the Arabic Wikipedia the common name rule is practiced. If a person or a place has a commonly used Arabic name, that is what is used. Otherwise it's transliterated. I would like to not waste much more time on such conspiracy theories as not using the name Parsian=Persian=Farsian being anti-Persian (btw, I've already responded to the Parsian issue in the comments secion above, and so has Mosab. There is a merge request between an article with the old name and one with the new name). --Fjmustak (talk) 16:25, 18 July 2017 (UTC)
deletion of articles of Iranian military commandersEdit
An admin called @Elph:, he was deleting every article about Iranian commanders like: Hasan Bagheri, Mohammad Bagheri (Iranian commander), Mohammad Pakpour (Ground Force commander), Ataollah Salehi (Commander-in-Chief) etc by reason of "he is not imputation for Arabic readers". he deleted also Farzad Esmaili (Air Defense commander) because he is not important and I asked to other admin @Ibrahim.ID: and He said in Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Farzad Esmaili: He is commander of normal military unit (a branch split from Iran Air Force), he is not member of (General Staff of Armed Forces of the Islamic Republic of Iran) nor one of supreme commanders, his rank (Brigadier general) only.-Ibrahim. but finally he said to me in his Arabic talk: Am not going to his article be in Arabic wiki because its propaganda for Iran army. While the article was only translation of En wiki and its was only two sentence.--Reza Amper (talk) 09:43, 12 July 2017 (UTC)
- I found deleted articles from Arabic Wikipedia via Wikidata: Hasan Bagheri (حسن باقري) and Farzad Esmaili (فرزاد اسماعيلي). About the articles restored by بدارين (Darren) or User:سامي الرحيلي (Sami al-Rahili):
- BTW, shall we have WMF and stewards to intervene in this RFC? This is becoming more complex than I thought. --George Ho (talk) 17:30, 12 July 2017 (UTC); edited, 17:39, 12 July 2017 (UTC)
Elph's rationale for deleting Hasan Bagheri: "سيرة لشخصية لا تستوفي معايير السير الشخصية
's subsequent rationale: "السيرة تُحقق الملحوظيَّة في إيران وعند الإيرانيين ووُجودها في هذه الموسوعة أشبه بالدعاية لِطرف والدعاية الحربية كذلك
Elph's rationale for deleting Farzad Esmaili: "سيرة لشخصية لا تستوفي معايير السير الشخصية" --George Ho (talk) 17:39, 12 July 2017 (UTC)
- @George Ho: we had several articles about iranian comanders that are not well known and are not expected to be known for a long time in both Iran and the Arab world. In case some of these happend to be famouse through the Arab media its beacuse of a battle in Syria, or a few battles, and in this case its just a short fame that is ment to fade away with time. We have a clear policy on ar.wiki that we don't keep this type of Articles. If they are known in Iran for some reason then that doesn't make them famouse for any reason in the Arab world, we have comanders too that have been famouse in certain battles but no one remembers them anymore, same goes for western comanders and others from around the world. We had a few Iranian users who created such Articles about Iranian Generals, and most of them were pure propaganda in a "hidden" way if you wish, and when we deleted them for the reasons mentioned we did explain that for the writers. That (Naturally) doesn't mean we deleted all articles about the iranian commanders, as i feel some people are implaying, of course any person, Militarry or not, that fits the requirments set by the ar. wiki community will not have his/her article deleted--باسم (talk) 19:22, 12 July 2017 (UTC)
- All right and thank you, باسم. ar:ويكيبيديا:معايير السير الشخصية is currently tagged as a draft and an instruction or something. Meanwhile, there are such articles in English Wikipedia: en:Hasan Bagheri, en:Mohammad Bagheri (Iranian commander), en:Mohammad Pakpour, en:Ataollah Salehi, and en:Farzad Esmaili. --George Ho (talk) 19:30, 12 July 2017 (UTC)
- @George Ho: several of these articles are created by the same users, i did check some of them before deleting, to make sure i'm not opressing any user who created it on ar.wiki. Not sure why they will be kept on en.wiki, but i belive they would be useful there (if they were decided to be kept) since en.wiki is a universal encyclopedia that is checked by both native english speakers and non-native speakers, including 2nd and 3rd generation Iranians who live in the west and have lost some of their connection to their father's land, they would find such info useful maybe. As for us on ar.wiki, the community belives that any other language version isn't always a guide to us, so what another wiki language version decides to keep or delete dosen't always mean that we should keep or delete this same araticle--باسم (talk) 19:45, 12 July 2017 (UTC)
- @George Ho: I became sure that we must have a review on Arabic Wikipedia's adminship as soon as possible. The problem is bigger than what I thought. There is a possible systematic anti-Iranian tendency which made that situation. Nevertheless we need more evidence to find out its rightness. I will ask a steward to help us asap. TheStrayDog (talk) 20:24, 12 July 2017 (UTC)
- I already notified Mardetanha about this RFC. I also notified some other WMF staff via email. --George Ho (talk) 21:35, 12 July 2017 (UTC)
- @George Ho: Thank you for your constructive helps on Meta-wiki. TheStrayDog (talk) 14:56, 18 July 2017 (UTC)
What to do with this RFC?Edit
After learning about TheStrayDog and the CheckUser confirmation, I wonder what can be done about this RFC. The RFC could be closed as frivolous and dismissed as created by confirmed sockpuppeteer. However, complaints by some others about the Arabic Wikipedia would delay the closure and make matters more complicated. Rather than close so soon, we'll await more statements from Mbazri, Reza Amper, and others to decide whether issues will be cleared up or become more complicated. --George Ho (talk) 04:24, 19 July 2017 (UTC)
- Hi, I had mentioned some examples above and i think they're enough to show what is really going on in ar.wiki. I expected that these items be answered in a precise manner And those users who violate and do illegal acts in the Arabic wiki, explain about their acts (If they have any explanations), otherwise be rebuked. I mentioned several cases But باسم answered only one of them. He or other users did not provide explanations for other items such as "Iran's accusation of chemical attack", "removing the news of 2016 Sana'a funeral air raid", "Removing Pictures from "Persian Gulf naming dispute"" etc and what do these acts mean and why do they act clearly Unlike policies and nobody stop them. Thanks --Mbazri (talk) 10:50, 23 July 2017 (UTC)
- Hey George! You said: "The RFC could be closed as frivolous and dismissed as created by confirmed sockpuppeteer" but it could be true if "I did sockpuppetry in arwiki" . And for that this is Meta-Wiki and the evidence is not complete enough to prove "I did sock-puppetry". I claimed I did not based on Check-user which says my account only "Thanked users on their talkpages and did not troll and spam any user...". So This can not be closed like that easy you said above. thanks. TheStrayDog (talk)
Elph, Helmoony, Farah, مصعب, Ibrahim.ID, Expectant of Light, and Amir (or StrayDog), how are the Arabic version and the Persian version of the Iranian Revolution (1979)? Also, what about Arabic and Persian versions of the 1953 Iranian coup d'état? Please I would like your commentaries on those. Thanks. --George Ho (talk) 09:02, 23 July 2017 (UTC)
- @George Ho: What is it that you would like to know about these articles? --Fjmustak (talk) 10:18, 23 July 2017 (UTC)
- Anything that can either support and/or disclaim the matter, Farah. Also, I would like to know similarities and differences between the versions besides the languages. --George Ho (talk) 11:01, 23 July 2017 (UTC)
- @George Ho: I read the entire article on the coup of 1953 (because it's short enough), and did not sense any anti-Iranian or anti-Persian or pan-Arabist sentiment as claimed (the article needs expanding, and rewording the paragraph praising Mosaddegh for "[coming] to the Iranian government as the leader of a genuine civil revolution, and was not the mastermind of a coup that puts the officers, ranks and decorations on his military uniform"... No evidence of any of the sentiments in the allegation in this article. The Iranian Revolution page is too long to read, and is marked as needing more citations (since 2011). --Fjmustak (talk) 12:35, 23 July 2017 (UTC)
- @George Ho: Salute again dear George and other fellows! Thank you for your contributions here. It is a great pleasure for me to edit nearby you fellows. I don't have any doubt that we can not be successful unless we "really" want to improve and resolve the problematic issues that I mentioned some of them above. I would accept that some of the issues I mentioned above are not anti-Iranian, some of them directly are though. But most of them are pan-Arab. For example the article Arab conquest of Iran soon became a featured article in Arabic Wikipedia, so what does that mean? I know being featured article is good itself, not an evidence enough to prove it, but when It has some controversial issues in it, it can not be considered and assumed as good faith work. I don't want to write too long, so please you yourselves go and search all around the Arabic Wikipedia to find out more. I'm sure you will find more. Because I did see a lot of issues and that's why made me come here and make this RFC. I'm not saying I'm 100% right, but even if I am 50% right or more less, it would still be a big problem for an "encyclopedia", 'cause we don't talk about a video game or something like that. Happy editing. TheStrayDog (talk) 22:03, 23 July 2017 (UTC)
- TheStrayDog, I'm not sure whether you want to answer the question about the Arabic Wikipedia's and Persian Wikipedia's coverages of the 1953 coup and the Iranian Revolution of 1979. If not, then... feel free to avoid that question then. --George Ho (talk) 22:06, 23 July 2017 (UTC)
- @George Ho: Hey George, It's too late in Iran (02:48 am), and I have to go to bed. But I will catch you later, here, and will answer your all questions as I did before. Please don't hurry about it, we need more time to investigate the case perfectly. I prefer to wait for finding more information about it rather than close this RFC and see more issues in the future. Thanks TheStrayDog (talk) 22:19, 23 July 2017 (UTC)
A reply by TheStrayDog
is made. --George Ho
) 16:14, 24 July 2017 (UTC)
Partial quote from TheStrayDog:
[...] I've read that article and I think it has some issues but is not so offensive. Also I can not understand Arabic so much, just a little bit, you better ask some neutral Arabic speakers. In Persian Wikipedia, it really doesn't relate to this RFC so much, but I would say it (Per-wiki version of Iranian Revolution) has some pro-Islamist and religious issues and it's not neutral enough. [...] —The preceding unsigned comment was added by TheStrayDog (talk • contribs) 15:34, 24 July 2017 (UTC) (UTC)
) 10:23, 18 August 2017 (UTC)
- @George Ho: Salute to you! For your useful works, not only here but entire mete-wiki. I still would insist on keeping this RFC up rather than closing it down (to resolve the problem completely). And my message to Arabic Wikipedia, community and its dear crew is only Peace. The only true way is being calm and professional. First days of my editing experiences (when I was only a teenager) were not so good. 'Cause I've done a lot of problems and mistakes here. But soon, I realized what exactly an encyclopedia is and what we could do with it. I feel more professional right now, but I still expect myself to be much more, as I shall be 'cause its our duty. Best Wishes! TheStrayDog (talk) 22:21, 28 July 2017 (UTC)
Abu musa islandsEdit
- I changed the infoboxes from island templates to disputed island templates whenever it was possible in Arabic wiki. By the way is it possible to do the same for Persian wiki ? Please ping me when it's done. --Helmoony (talk) 15:01, 20 July 2017 (UTC)
- @Helmoony: Hello dear fellow! As you know, this is (section) called "Statement of issue" and we've got a section called "Comments". So as a professional user, you and I must follow and respect guidance (sections) of Meta-Wiki and do not disregard them. And then, I must say that you claimed you changed a infobox's situation, but you didn't mentioned what infobox (?) in where (?) (en-wiki, ar-wiki or somewhere else) and how (?) (you added like "it was disputed by U.A.E or Iran and is administrated by Iran (right) or U.A.E (wrong)" - did you add the true administrator of the island which is Iran? or not?). But you exactly mentioned Persian wikipedia here as a blaming! I prefer to say please (1)-do not distract and disrupt the "Statement of issue" section with such a blaming comments (2)-do not blame any wikipedia project here, if you have a complaints against any project go and make an independent page with approval evidences to investigate that- because this is a RFC for Arabic wiki, not Persian or something else. (3)- Be neutral, I made this because I thought ar-wiki is not neutral as an encyclopedia, but you only are attacking "Persian wikipedia" as a response of yourself to this RFC which will make you non-neutral, but a extreme defender of a wiki (ar-wiki) blaming is so easy but proving is so hard to do. I will add that claim of U.A.E to the infobox of Abu Musa island's article in Persian wiki as soon as possible- but I'm still insisting on not blaming another wikipedia for lack of something, this is a wiki so if you didn't see a fact you can add it easily and don't need to blame another user for not doing that. thank you so much. TheStrayDog (talk) 09:21, 22 July 2017 (UTC)