Grants talk:PEG/Satdeep Gill/Punjabi Wikimedians Community Space
This grant is currently under review. Comments are welcome on this page. Remember the Friendly space expectations!
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editHi Satdeep, thank you for your request! It is quite impressive result of your work in the previous period - congratulations! I have a proposal for you, for a section named Measures of success. It would be helpful (and for you too in reporting time) to give concrete numbers on how many meetings, edit-a-thons and the number of improved/writted articles you expect. Punjabi Wikimedians is a new group and informations about how many members you have and how many of them are active editors will be helpful, too. Do you have plan to use rented room for all time in this 3 months or only for ad-hoc activities that you specified in the grant request? Thank you for your answers. - MikyM (talk) 04:23, 3 March 2016 (UTC)
- @MikyM: Thanks a lot for your proposal. I have added the relevant information the grant request. We plan to do a lot of activities in the Community Space. We will be organzing various events and we are hoping that there will be an event every week. Besides this we can plan events on short notice once we have the most important thing; that is Internet and a space. We will be having various meetups to plan WikiConference India 2016 as well. We hope to make this a permanant space once we prove its importance in these 3 months.--Satdeep Gill (talk) 14:06, 3 March 2016 (UTC)
Community comments
editHi Satdeep. I think it will be better if in the grant,you could show us how this would help amplify the work your community is already doing. That would help in measuring the actual impact of the grant compared to what the community is doing without the grant. Also, if you guys will be using the community Space for planning of the WikiConference India 2016. You should mention it your grant report Yohannvt (talk) 10:44, 10 March 2016 (UTC)
- Hi Yohann, we will be able to organize meetups and training workshops at regular intervals. We will be able to use internet during all the events which will help a lot. We also plan to directly impact Punjabi Wikimedia projects with in-house edit-a-thons in which will be using books bought using Infrastructure Grant from WMIN. We have around 20-25 reference books and it will not possible to take them along everywhere if we plan our events elsewhere. We will be teaching different tools and utilities at all our meetups. Also, we can solve each others' problems and start working on new projects as well. Yes, the community space will be used for the Patiala meetings of the Local Organizing Team of WikiConference India 2016. --Satdeep Gill (talk) 18:30, 10 March 2016 (UTC)
WMF Comments
editHi Satdeep. We are impressed by how active the Punjabi Wikimedian community has been over the last several months, and want to support you to continue to meet, learn and edit together. However, we generally only pay for space for short term projects through the PEG program. It sounds like your community would like to establish a space for ongoing general events. Additionally, hosting public events in a private home can be problematic. There are security risks for the residents, the community would have to rely just two people to provide access to the space, and some people (especially newcomers) may not feel comfortable going to an event in someone's home. If you will share more about why your community would like to establish a regular meeting space, we can talk about other ways to meet those needs. For example, have you found it difficult to find spaces to meet and host events? Is it difficult to get access to high speed internet? Are you looking for a space for ad-hoc meetups? Please let us know if you have questions or would like clarification about the above comments. Cheers, --KHarold (WMF) (talk) 20:02, 2 March 2016 (UTC)
- Hi Kacie, Punjabi community has been facing problems for hosting events. We don't have access to Internet at public places and that is a problem whenever we meet. We have not been able to teach or learn during meetups due to this problem. I wanted assure you that generally the community has faith on us. During the Meetup/Patiala/6 of Patiala community everyone agreed that having a community space will be very much helpful. The community space is accessible in such a way that a person who enters the community space will not have direct access to the rest of the house and that it will be accessible even when we are not home(With a key given to trusted members). Some people in the past have complained that they don't have access to internet and other equipment. This will help them as well and anybody can come and edit at any time of the day.--Satdeep Gill (talk) 02:08, 3 March 2016 (UTC)
- Hi Satdeep, thank you for providing more context about the challenges your community has experienced in getting access to internet for events. We understand that access to the internet is an ongoing issue for your community, and that they have agreed that they would like to use a space in your home as a community space. However PEG funding can only be used to pay for short term rental of space for a project. One reason for this is that selling, donating or storing furniture and office equipment purchased to furnish a space would be necessary after the project period ends. We also would prefer that you find a more neutral, preferably public space for community events. Have you looked into other options for securing high speed internet access for community events? For example, we would consider funding a MiFi unit (or other portable wifi device) and paying for airtime for community events. Alternately, would it be possible to host events at an internet cafe and requesting grant funds to pay for participants to use computers and internet during the event? You might also consider contacting the Center for Internet and Society to ask if they can introduce you to organizations in your area who might be able to offer your community space for events. CIS participates in the WMF annual plan grant process - please let us know if you would like help getting in contact with them. The Nigerian User Group recently used PEG funds to purchase airtime vouchers to offer as prizes for an editing contest. This might be something that your community is interested in trying. Please let us know if you have tried or researched the cost of some of the alternate solutions we have suggested. Best, --KHarold (WMF) (talk) 19:53, 8 March 2016 (UTC)
- Hi Kacie, the proposed community space is designed in such a way that it is cut off from the rest of the house. Our house is in the vicinity of Punjabi University, where most of our editors reside. We could have enjoyed help from the University but they are not willing to cooperate with Wikimedia related events. If furniture is an issue as of now, then for the time being we can make do without buying new furniture for the community space. As far as Internet is concerned, one of our editors used Portable WiFi device earlier and it was way too costly for just one person. In India, we can get best connectivity with Broadband only. There are certain connectivity issues with such devices and they come with a usage bar and if we exceed the bar, it costs many times more. I understand the concern for a public space but we believe that Community Space at our house will practically prove to be very useful. We can easily plan an event every other week. Small meetings can also be planned at short notice.(A lot of meetings are bound to happen as we are organizing WikiConferece India in Punjab) Connectivity and space will no longer be the issues once we have this. We are planning to apply for Simple APG for the community space once we prove its importance in the coming months.--Satdeep Gill (talk) 13:32, 9 March 2016 (UTC)
- Hi Satdeep, while we realize that using your home as a community meeting space may be the easiest way to ensure internet access for events, we must do our best to ensure that all people feel safe and comfortable attending WMF sponsored events. For that reason, we are only willing to approve funding for internet access in a public space. It would be helpful if you would research the suitability and cost of alternatives. From a search of Google Maps I see that there are two internet cafes across the street from the botanical garden at Punjabi University. Here is a list of restaurants in Patiala with free WiFi, we would consider funding the cost of snacks and drinks in a location with suitable space and connectivity. You note that MiFi is too expensive for an individual to use, but our understanding is that you are looking for a connection for groups of 5 to 10 people. Have you researched the cost of different MiFi plans with high or unlimited data allowance? --KHarold (WMF) (talk) 23:27, 9 March 2016 (UTC)
- Hi Kacie, we understand the concern that using our home as a community space might give an impression that it will not be safe and comfortable for everyone but we would like to assure you that the whole community has unanimously agreed to have a permanent community space at our place. I would like to mention once again that the proposed community space is separate from the rest of the house and is accessible on it own. I see that google maps mentions two cyber cafes while I happen to find only one of them in person. That cybercafe has 5 small cabins with PCs and a very little space besides that. Restaurants with free WiFi are far from the current location and will not be easily accessible for the majority of the community members. Also, many of these locations provide internet access for limited period such as 15-20 minutes. Yes, I noted that MiFi is too expensive as according to this link under the dongle section, only 12GB data is provided for 1600 rupees. This makes it way too costly. Another demerit is that we might have more than 10 participants at certain events and MiFi permits only 10 simultaneous devices. The best way to ensure good internet connection is a broadband connection with a WiFi modem. --Satdeep Gill (talk) 18:22, 10 March 2016 (UTC)
- Hi Satdeep, we understand that your community would prefer to use your home as a meeting space, however we will only provide funding for internet use in a public space. Using an internet usage calculator on Vodafone's website, I see that 12 GB of data would provide 210 hours of internet at 3G speeds, assuming people are not watching movies, downloading images or music. This would be sufficient to supply 10 people with internet for 21 hours each month. If you find that this is not enough data, or you have more than 10 people attending most events, we can discuss purchasing an additional wifi dongle and monthly plan. You can request additional funds to reimburse costs for smaller groups to meet at the internet cafe. For larger events, you can request PEG funds to rent a space that provides internet. In the simple APG program, you may request funding to rent a community space in a non-residential location such as an office. Please let me know if this is unclear, and we can set up a phone call. --KHarold (WMF) (talk) 19:11, 15 March 2016 (UTC)
- Hi Kacie, we understand the concern that using our home as a community space might give an impression that it will not be safe and comfortable for everyone but we would like to assure you that the whole community has unanimously agreed to have a permanent community space at our place. I would like to mention once again that the proposed community space is separate from the rest of the house and is accessible on it own. I see that google maps mentions two cyber cafes while I happen to find only one of them in person. That cybercafe has 5 small cabins with PCs and a very little space besides that. Restaurants with free WiFi are far from the current location and will not be easily accessible for the majority of the community members. Also, many of these locations provide internet access for limited period such as 15-20 minutes. Yes, I noted that MiFi is too expensive as according to this link under the dongle section, only 12GB data is provided for 1600 rupees. This makes it way too costly. Another demerit is that we might have more than 10 participants at certain events and MiFi permits only 10 simultaneous devices. The best way to ensure good internet connection is a broadband connection with a WiFi modem. --Satdeep Gill (talk) 18:22, 10 March 2016 (UTC)
- Hi Satdeep, while we realize that using your home as a community meeting space may be the easiest way to ensure internet access for events, we must do our best to ensure that all people feel safe and comfortable attending WMF sponsored events. For that reason, we are only willing to approve funding for internet access in a public space. It would be helpful if you would research the suitability and cost of alternatives. From a search of Google Maps I see that there are two internet cafes across the street from the botanical garden at Punjabi University. Here is a list of restaurants in Patiala with free WiFi, we would consider funding the cost of snacks and drinks in a location with suitable space and connectivity. You note that MiFi is too expensive for an individual to use, but our understanding is that you are looking for a connection for groups of 5 to 10 people. Have you researched the cost of different MiFi plans with high or unlimited data allowance? --KHarold (WMF) (talk) 23:27, 9 March 2016 (UTC)
- Hi Kacie, the proposed community space is designed in such a way that it is cut off from the rest of the house. Our house is in the vicinity of Punjabi University, where most of our editors reside. We could have enjoyed help from the University but they are not willing to cooperate with Wikimedia related events. If furniture is an issue as of now, then for the time being we can make do without buying new furniture for the community space. As far as Internet is concerned, one of our editors used Portable WiFi device earlier and it was way too costly for just one person. In India, we can get best connectivity with Broadband only. There are certain connectivity issues with such devices and they come with a usage bar and if we exceed the bar, it costs many times more. I understand the concern for a public space but we believe that Community Space at our house will practically prove to be very useful. We can easily plan an event every other week. Small meetings can also be planned at short notice.(A lot of meetings are bound to happen as we are organizing WikiConferece India in Punjab) Connectivity and space will no longer be the issues once we have this. We are planning to apply for Simple APG for the community space once we prove its importance in the coming months.--Satdeep Gill (talk) 13:32, 9 March 2016 (UTC)
- Hi Satdeep, thank you for providing more context about the challenges your community has experienced in getting access to internet for events. We understand that access to the internet is an ongoing issue for your community, and that they have agreed that they would like to use a space in your home as a community space. However PEG funding can only be used to pay for short term rental of space for a project. One reason for this is that selling, donating or storing furniture and office equipment purchased to furnish a space would be necessary after the project period ends. We also would prefer that you find a more neutral, preferably public space for community events. Have you looked into other options for securing high speed internet access for community events? For example, we would consider funding a MiFi unit (or other portable wifi device) and paying for airtime for community events. Alternately, would it be possible to host events at an internet cafe and requesting grant funds to pay for participants to use computers and internet during the event? You might also consider contacting the Center for Internet and Society to ask if they can introduce you to organizations in your area who might be able to offer your community space for events. CIS participates in the WMF annual plan grant process - please let us know if you would like help getting in contact with them. The Nigerian User Group recently used PEG funds to purchase airtime vouchers to offer as prizes for an editing contest. This might be something that your community is interested in trying. Please let us know if you have tried or researched the cost of some of the alternate solutions we have suggested. Best, --KHarold (WMF) (talk) 19:53, 8 March 2016 (UTC)