CIS-A2K/IRC meeting 2011-10-12


CIS-A2K (Centre for Internet and Society - Access to Knowledge) is a campaign to promote the fundamental principles of justice, freedom, and economic development. It deals with issues like copyrights, patents and trademarks, which are an important part of the digital landscape.
If you have a general proposal/suggestion for Access to Knowledge team you can write on the discussion page. If you have appreciations or feedback on our work, please share it on feedback page.

Oct 12 15:00:07 <Hmundol> rjv hi
Oct 12 15:00:21 <srikanthlogic> Theo10011: start ?
Oct 12 15:00:22 * ram___ (79f31afe@gateway/web/freenode/ip. entrou em #wikimedia-office
Oct 12 15:00:28 <Hmundol> hi ram_
Oct 12 15:00:37 <fschulenburg> hi ram___
Oct 12 15:00:41 <ram___> hi hisham
Oct 12 15:00:46 <ldavis> hi everyone! welcome! we thought it'd be a good idea to have an irc meeting about the India Education Program because we've been having a lot of talk page discussions about various issues that have come up, but we haven't had a chance to really talk among the people involved in the program and the community, so we'd like to have this open office hour to answer any questions anyone may have
Oct 12 15:00:47 <Vibhijain> Hi ram_
Oct 12 15:00:49 <ram___> hi frank
Oct 12 15:00:59 <Theo10011> Welcome everyone to the meeting.
Oct 12 15:01:09 <Vibhijain> thank theo
Oct 12 15:01:20 <rjv> what's this website for...i m new to this
Oct 12 15:01:32 <ram___> we chat here :)
Oct 12 15:01:41 <Theo10011> The education team is voiced in the channel.
Oct 12 15:01:45 * Fluffernutter (Fluffernut@wikipedia/Fluffernutter) entrou em #wikimedia-office
Oct 12 15:01:55 <Theo10011> Logs will be put on Meta later and I will send a link to the Mailing list.
Oct 12 15:02:06 <ram___> hi fluffernutter
Oct 12 15:02:07 <Hmundol> rjv:
Oct 12 15:02:09 <Fluffernutter> hi all
Oct 12 15:02:16 <srikanthlogic> Hi Fluffernutter
Oct 12 15:02:21 <rjv> thanks
Oct 12 15:02:25 <Theo10011> Please feel free to proceed.
Oct 12 15:02:37 <ldavis> anyone have a question to start us off with?
Oct 12 15:03:04 <Fluffernutter> ldavis, how is the copyvio problem coming? i'm still hearing scattered reports of problems
Oct 12 15:03:13 * rjv saiu (Client Quit)
Oct 12 15:03:28 <dmacks> I just nuked a bunch of copyvio. Apparently the message is *not* getting through.
Oct 12 15:03:37 <ldavis> yes, we are still having problems
Oct 12 15:03:49 * srikanthlogic wonders what part of "dont copy" is not getting through
Oct 12 15:04:04 <dmacks> [[Wikipedia:India_Education_Program/Courses/Fall_2011/Machine_Drawing_and_Computer_Graphics]] is full of copyvio notes from within the past week.
Oct 12 15:04:46 <fschulenburg> I think it would be helpful to let the India Team describe what they've done to deal with the problem
Oct 12 15:04:47 <Fluffernutter> to some extent, we seem to be able to put out fires in individual classes, but the flames are carrying on in general
Oct 12 15:04:54 <Fluffernutter> oh yes please frank!
Oct 12 15:04:55 <srikanthlogic> I think as and when new courses start, they would start with copyvios.
Oct 12 15:05:05 <Hmundol> If I could add some bits here, there remain some students who continue to do copyvio. Some of them are doing straight copy-pastes from other sources while - to answer your specific question, srikanthlogic, there are some who are still struggling with how they can and should "paraphrase"
Oct 12 15:05:16 <fschulenburg> nitika: can you share some information with us?
Oct 12 15:05:25 <Hmundol> Bear with me while I give context
Oct 12 15:05:26 <ldavis> maybe we should first introduce ourselves -- the team we have here on IRC includes Frank Schulenburg (fschulenburg), the Global Education Program Director; Hisham Mundol (Hmundol), the head of our India team; Nitika Tandon (who's running the India Ed program); and LiAnna Davis (ldavis), the communications person for the project
Oct 12 15:05:41 <ldavis> we also have a number of our Campus Ambassadors from India on as well
Oct 12 15:05:52 <Hmundol> When we started the program in India, we approached a number of schools and colleges in Pune - which is a leading education town in India.
Oct 12 15:05:55 * tahera (ca478faa@gateway/web/freenode/ip. entrou em #wikimedia-office
Oct 12 15:05:56 <nitika> fluffernutter: we're using different channels to reach out to students to let them know how important it is to not copy-paste. We have had several in-class sessions briefing students about this issue, the CAs have been talking to students one-on-one to make sure they inderstand
Oct 12 15:05:57 <ldavis> maybe they can introduce themselves :)
Oct 12 15:06:17 <Abhi_> Abhishek Suryawanshi,Campus Ambassador- IEP
Oct 12 15:06:18 * a_r_n (~arnav@wikipedia/Rangilo-Gujarati) entrou em #wikimedia-office
Oct 12 15:06:27 * czarina (73f21c1b@gateway/web/freenode/ip. entrou em #wikimedia-office
Oct 12 15:06:27 <nitika> In addition to that we've had faculty meet with the profs so that they can address this issue in the class
Oct 12 15:06:30 <a_r_n> did I miss anything ???????
Oct 12 15:06:31 <Hmundol> We decided to do it in one town as it afforded the opportunity for more focussed support, instead of spreading ourselves too thin and spending time and money and effort in travel
Oct 12 15:06:37 <a_r_n> Hello everyone :) \m/
Oct 12 15:06:49 <Abhi_> @Arnav (a_r_n) No, Just started
Oct 12 15:06:56 <Pratik_> Pratik_: Campus Ambassador - IEP
Oct 12 15:07:02 <Hmundol> We had targeted 25) or so students and had a team of 25 Campus Ambassadors (some of who are on today)
Oct 12 15:07:10 * Beetstra (~djbeetstr@Wikimedia/Beetstra) entrou em #wikimedia-office
Oct 12 15:07:12 * czarina saiu (Client Quit)
Oct 12 15:07:15 <Hmundol> sorry, read that as "targeted 250 or so students)
Oct 12 15:07:27 * Netha saiu (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
Oct 12 15:07:38 <Fluffernutter> the current program only involves 250 students?
Oct 12 15:07:38 * Devanshi (73f21c1b@gateway/web/freenode/ip. entrou em #wikimedia-office
Oct 12 15:07:47 <Fluffernutter> (man, it felt like so many more when i was chasing them!)
Oct 12 15:07:53 <Hmundol> …Eventually, we had more than 1000 students participating in 3 colleges - and we then stopped all further enrollments
Oct 12 15:07:56 <nitika> we have now been telling students to write only in their Sandboxes and get it approved by their CAs or professors before they move it to the article space
Oct 12 15:07:57 <srikanthlogic> Hmundol: students dont know to write a single line from thought than copying :o I know the issue is larger due to culture of rot learning :(
Oct 12 15:08:08 <Devanshi> hii everyone
Oct 12 15:08:14 <Fluffernutter> Hmundol, ahh, ok
Oct 12 15:08:27 <ldavis> ram___: want to introduce yourself too as you're our Campus Ambassador leader?
Oct 12 15:08:30 <Hmundol> We rapidly realized the need of additional support
Oct 12 15:08:49 <Hmundol> …and so we selected another 15 Campus Ambassadors and augmented this with 17 Online Ambassadors
Oct 12 15:08:58 <nitika> srikanthlogic: i so agree with you, the issue is more or less due to the education system in india..
Oct 12 15:09:17 <Hmundol> The Campus Ambassadors, to a large extent, and with some exceptions of guys like a_r_n were newbies to Wikipedia
Oct 12 15:09:30 <dmacks> *That* is a serious problem.
Oct 12 15:09:36 <srikanthlogic> nitika: but, Indian wikipedians too evolved from same system :)
Oct 12 15:09:38 <ram___> Hello everyone, I'm Ram, and I'm Campus Ambassador coordinator for pune pilot. Thanks for calling me Leader, I love that word :)
Oct 12 15:09:43 <Vibhijain> the issue is big, but what has it to do with the education system
Oct 12 15:09:48 <Hmundol> All Campus Ambassadors went through a full 2 day training and they have been participating in Editing Sundays as well - apart from their own editing within or outside the project
Oct 12 15:10:36 <a_r_n> Vibhijain: There is a professor who does not even take attendance, and then too his class has maximum students and is doing a great job in IEP, so this is where education matters :)
Oct 12 15:10:37 * sodabottle (b4d74433@gateway/web/freenode/ip. entrou em #wikimedia-office
Oct 12 15:10:40 * srikanthlogic feels making this an assignment with marks was a very bad idea..
Oct 12 15:10:44 <Fluffernutter> So ok, speaking as someone not involved in IEP except inasmuch as I ended up blocking a lot of your students, my impression is that the students are not really prepared to edit wikipedia before they're turned loose - this involves copyvio, but also such things as how to use a talk page, how to use wikimarkup, what content goes into an encyclopedia...are the students getting any sort
Oct 12 15:10:44 <Fluffernutter> of "this is what wikipedia is and this is what it does and how you work it" introduction before they're sent off to edit?
Oct 12 15:10:47 * The_ (dce14324@gateway/web/freenode/ip. entrou em #wikimedia-office
Oct 12 15:10:53 <Hmundol> Indeed, even Online Ambassadors participated in an induction - where we told them what all has been done so far by Campus Ambassadors and what are they typical questions being asked and - importantly - how best to answer these questions. This was in the form of a webinar and a simulated IRC
Oct 12 15:11:33 <Hmundol> Actually, Fluffernutter, in all fairness, there have been close to 100 face-to-face classroom sessions conducted by the Campus Ambassadors
Oct 12 15:11:45 <Vibhijain> maybe the students r getting pressurized and dhats why copying things
Oct 12 15:11:47 <srikanthlogic> infact MoS standards has been disregarded by almost everyone and gets hidden due to copyvios
Oct 12 15:11:49 <nitika> srikanthlogic: i agree, we'll have to make sure that students discontinue to work in the same fashion as they have been doing in the off-line assignments. wiki-assignmnet or online assignment is different
Oct 12 15:11:57 <Hmundol> They cover topics like "what is wikipeida" to begin with, "what this program seeks to do" and then goes on to basic editing sessions
Oct 12 15:12:07 <Abhi_> Its completely "new trend" where they dont get opportunity to copy from Wikipedia, but they have to "contribute" to wikipedia....I understand they are copy-pasting,but they are realising it (may be slowly) , Point is this system is innovative, where there (non-copied) assignment is shared with world...its taking time to implement concept..but on other hand, we have Robinson Crusoe Featured Article, and other good articles (tot
Oct 12 15:12:11 * The_ saiu (Client Quit)
Oct 12 15:12:19 <Fluffernutter> Hmundol, hmm, so they're getting the intro, but some of them just might not be listening
Oct 12 15:12:35 <Hmundol> After that, there are a bunch of sessions that were refresher sessions covering some basics such as creating user pages, signing of with ~~~~, etc - as well as more serious issues such as copyvio
Oct 12 15:12:35 <fschulenburg> I guess one lesson we've learnt is to focus more on graduate students instead of involving freshmen (who might not fully understand what it means to write a text in their own words)
Oct 12 15:12:48 <Vibhijain> also normal wikipedia editors need to be more helping to them
Oct 12 15:12:49 * Mangol (dce14324@gateway/web/freenode/ip. entrou em #wikimedia-office
Oct 12 15:13:04 <Hmundol> Fluffernutter: I agree. …and that is a constant challenge The only way we are working around it is to keep hammering the message away
Oct 12 15:13:08 <srikanthlogic> fschulenburg: freshmen, grad students are all more or less of same maturity in India
Oct 12 15:13:20 <Hmundol> …as a result of the above, srikanthlogic, we haven't really been able to do justice to MOS
Oct 12 15:13:23 <Fluffernutter> Has there been any progress with the notion of setting students up with sandboxes to write in, then having their content checked over before it's moved to mainspace? This was floated as an idea a few weeks ago, but I don't know if it was ever considered workable or implemented?
Oct 12 15:13:32 <Vibhijain> ya
Oct 12 15:13:33 <srikanthlogic> infact first set of copyvios came from symbiosis were from grad studs IIRC
Oct 12 15:13:48 <Vibhijain> i think "article incubator" can be a goo place for them
Oct 12 15:13:57 <Vibhijain> *good
Oct 12 15:14:21 <a_r_n> srikanthlogic: Fluffernutter Vibhijain The first round of interaction with students was "Introduction to WP", then "Editing Session", then we took them to "Hands on Session" then "Additional Workshops" were conducted as and when required
Oct 12 15:14:27 <Hmundol> Flufferutter: yes, we are trying to tell them to do precisely that. Last week, the team told all faculty and students that this is what they should be doing. Having said that, I can't, hand on heart, say that it is being implemented by all
Oct 12 15:14:39 <srikanthlogic> Hmundol: it was painful to see people writing in upper case, thats basic internet etiquette, forget MoS
Oct 12 15:14:54 <Mangol> I've asked everyone to write in their sandboxes, I was thinking of using something like for copyvio detection
Oct 12 15:14:58 <ram___> guys what is MOS?
Oct 12 15:14:59 <Fluffernutter> Hmundol, well that's a step forward at least, to give it to them as something to work toward implementing :D
Oct 12 15:15:00 <a_r_n> and of course the copyvio sessions :)
Oct 12 15:15:05 * Amgine (~Amgine@wikinews/Amgine) entrou em #wikimedia-office
Oct 12 15:15:07 <Vibhijain> its manual of style
Oct 12 15:15:08 <Hmundol> srikanthlogic: i agree, but...
Oct 12 15:15:09 <Theo10011> ram___, Manual of style.
Oct 12 15:15:11 <dmacks> _M_anual _o_f _Style.
Oct 12 15:15:15 <Pratik_> Manual of Style
Oct 12 15:15:17 <Theo10011> heya Fluffy
Oct 12 15:15:18 <Hmundol> Fluffernutter: you bet!
Oct 12 15:15:38 <Fluffernutter> hi Theo10011
Oct 12 15:15:40 <Theo10011> Didn't know you were this aware of the education program? You go girl.
Oct 12 15:16:05 * kuldeep (75d44ae0@gateway/web/freenode/ip. entrou em #wikimedia-office
Oct 12 15:16:16 <Theo10011> Fluffernutter, I would like to nominate Ironholds and Dragonfly to welcome and help new users. :P
Oct 12 15:16:21 <Fluffernutter> Theo10011, I wasn't, until i ran headfirst into a whole class's worth of copyvios last month. I'm told that a good chunk of the IEP students want to punch me in the nose nowadays because I blocked so many of them!
Oct 12 15:16:25 <kuldeep> hello everyone
Oct 12 15:16:31 <Hmundol> on the specific issue of copyvio, individual sessions have been conducted in multiple classrooms and with faculty where we've explained what is and what is not acceptable, and also why. …we've shown examples from that college of copyvio and also shown examples of how good quality articles are being edited front hat college.
Oct 12 15:16:31 <Hmundol> I
Oct 12 15:17:00 <Hmundol> It's been hard work and is ongoing - but do remember that this is a pilot. We anticipated some issues, and some we are having to deal with as proactively as possible as they arise
Oct 12 15:17:20 <fschulenburg> Fluffernutter: actually, we have about 2,000 students in the program this semester. most of them come from U.S. universities, some of them are from Canada. And the rest from India
Oct 12 15:17:26 <Hmundol> There are many many many learnings we are gaining. I wish we could have done them slightly less painfully, but learnings don't usually oblige
Oct 12 15:17:43 <Fluffernutter> What's the time frame for the Indian semester system? When will this round of classes be wrapping up, and when does the next semester start?
Oct 12 15:17:58 <nitika> to add to Hmundol we've allocated individual Campus and Online Ambassadors to specific students so that co-ordination is improved. and they can work closely with students to help them with how to edit articles, telling them about how to ensure a neutral point of view, referencing and not copy-pasting.
Oct 12 15:18:18 <Mangol> will be wrapping up in december, next sem starts jan
Oct 12 15:18:28 * kuldeep saiu (Client Quit)
Oct 12 15:18:37 <nitika> Fluffernutter: sometime by end oct mid nov.. different classes have different semester dates
Oct 12 15:18:37 <Hmundol> Flufuernutter: you're actually a star in Pune. I know that some might have wanted to do damage to your nose - but I've been looking at the bunch of students who are now reaching out to you and asking for help - and your being perfectly gracious and helpful. so THANK YOU!!!
Oct 12 15:18:49 * jorm saiu (Quit: jorm)
Oct 12 15:19:01 <Vibhijain> maybe students shoul dbe free in what they want to do, maybe some of thm r good photographers, so w can help them in contributing to commons
Oct 12 15:19:09 <Vibhijain> *should be
Oct 12 15:19:22 <ram___> I second Hisham on Fluffernutter
Oct 12 15:19:28 <fschulenburg> There have also been workshops with professors in Pune. We had not done that in the past (US), but I think it's a good thing to do in the future.
Oct 12 15:19:39 <Fluffernutter> aw, thank you Hmundol! I really was trying very hard to not make them feel like they weren't welcome, because the last thing we want is people who are learning to be told that their efforts aren't welcome
Oct 12 15:19:41 * Beetstra saiu (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
Oct 12 15:19:47 <Hmundol> Flufernutter: when we can get you next to India, we'll give you the honorary keys to Pune city
Oct 12 15:19:47 <dmacks> What are the grading (or other) outcomes and effects on the students? I know (from other edu projects) that sometimes they get fairly high marks just for contributing "anything", but other classes actually look at the quality of the added content and the student work habits on-wiki.
Oct 12 15:19:48 <Theo10011> Fluffernutter, is awesome all around.
Oct 12 15:20:16 <Hmundol> dmacks: that's a great question. the grading is yet to happen but here's what we've told faculty to do
Oct 12 15:20:29 <Fluffernutter> dmacks, good question. I know some copyvio-catchers have been warning students that copying might get them failed, but no one seems to really know if that's true...
Oct 12 15:20:48 <Hmundol> First of all, look at the specific quality of the article before and after the student started editing - and look at the quality of the contributions of that student
Oct 12 15:20:51 * Sodabottle_ (74ca84dc@gateway/web/freenode/ip. entrou em #wikimedia-office
Oct 12 15:20:55 <Hmundol> Also, look at number of references
Oct 12 15:21:06 * arnav (3bb545cd@gateway/web/freenode/ip. entrou em #wikimedia-office
Oct 12 15:21:12 <Hmundol> Also, look at the kind of discussion that's been happening not he article discussion page and the student's talk pages
Oct 12 15:21:26 * Mangol saiu (Quit: Page closed)
Oct 12 15:21:31 <a_r_n> also at the number of times student has been warned, and improved :)
Oct 12 15:21:32 <Hmundol> layer it with Wikipedia's concepts of NPOV.
Oct 12 15:21:37 <Hmundol> …and then grant marks.
Oct 12 15:21:45 <ram___> and the figures/diagrams/illustrations as well
Oct 12 15:22:07 * sodabottle saiu (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
Oct 12 15:22:18 <Hmundol> Marks will only be given in the next 2-4 weeks based on class semester end dates - but i think we have adequately conveyed to them, dmacks - that just about "any contribution" is not good enough
Oct 12 15:22:27 <Vibhijain> some of them are intrested in helping with dyk, but also don't know what is a hook
Oct 12 15:22:30 <dmacks> That sounds like a good set of standards. I'm glad it includes the feedback from the general WP community not just class students and teachers themselves.
Oct 12 15:22:55 <a_r_n> dmacks: of course :)
Oct 12 15:23:10 <Fluffernutter> Vibhijain, DYK hooks can be tricky things to come up with. I wonder if there's any resource for students to be like "I have this article, but I can't think of a good hook, can you help?"
Oct 12 15:23:25 <Vibhijain> hmm
Oct 12 15:23:26 <Abhi_> @Vibhijain : Topics are decided by students "with help of" teachers, "Related to cource" only...specifically their cource related topics for marks..
Oct 12 15:23:27 <nitika> dmacks: yeah! one of the parameters to mark students in global collaboration. So we wanted to make sure teachers assess how the students have been collaborating with the wiki community
Oct 12 15:23:29 <Hmundol> dmacks: absolutely. an integral benefit we have told the faculty (and students) is the collaboration with the worldwide community. …otherwise, they could have done it as class projects amongst themsleves
Oct 12 15:23:39 <srikanthlogic> other problem i found is some content are chosen under "smaller" communities with lesser watchers. like Data structures / AI etc.. very few wikipedian watchers on subject :|
Oct 12 15:23:40 <Vibhijain> thats only, we need to help them
Oct 12 15:24:09 <Hmundol> srikanthlogic: agree but even there we could have done a much better job of integrating with the respective WP projects
Oct 12 15:24:30 <Hmundol> there might be fewer wikipedian wathcers on some subjects, but that's still good.
Oct 12 15:24:49 <nitika> srikanthlogic: these are basically the 1st year sudents and the problem with their course is that they are still learning the basics/fundamentals of engineering - most of these topics are nicely covered on wikipedia
Oct 12 15:25:07 <Vibhijain> also some of them are spreaing wikilove to each other after completing their article, which is a good practice
Oct 12 15:25:12 <Fluffernutter> I don't think there's really any way to compensate for the fact that the wikipedia community, in general, has gaps of coverage. There may be more data structures students than there are editors interested in watching wikipedia pages on data structures, and I'm not sure how that could be fixed
Oct 12 15:25:21 <ram___> yesterday we got a new problem, "Reverse Copyvio", few of the blogs / websites using content from the article of our students,
Oct 12 15:25:29 <ram___> any idea how to deal with this
Oct 12 15:25:30 <ram___>  ??
Oct 12 15:25:40 <srikanthlogic> Fluffernutter: true, my comment was just an observation
Oct 12 15:25:41 <Vibhijain> hmm
Oct 12 15:25:50 <Vibhijain> just make sure that they attribute
Oct 12 15:26:04 <srikanthlogic> infact this could be treated as input while choosing courses on future edu programs..
Oct 12 15:26:09 <Vibhijain> it will give more encouragement to students
Oct 12 15:26:38 <Theo10011> ram___, care to elaborate?
Oct 12 15:26:44 <nitika> srikanthlogic: definitely..
Oct 12 15:26:47 <Fluffernutter> srikanthlogic, hm, that's a good idea!
Oct 12 15:27:17 <srikanthlogic> ram___: Wikipedia content gets widely reproduced.. if a genuine publication makes copyvio, note it on talk page, so the page wont be deleted of copyvio citing reverse vopyvio
Oct 12 15:27:19 <ram___> but if a page patroler comes and finds a website/blog with same keywords, he/she thinks it;s a copyvio
Oct 12 15:27:28 <Hmundol> srikanthlogic: we must look at how we can provide a richer ecosystem of support for students for this program going forward especially given the numbers involved. …and getting alignment to WP project pages or looking at how many wikipedia watchers can be encouraged to look at student contributions (either as Online Ambassadors or otherwise) is essential
Oct 12 15:27:32 <dmacks> srikanthlogic: one think that has helped in the chemistry realm is when an ambassador or instructor posts a note to the [[Wikipedia:Project ...]] page, drawing attention of editors to the class's page.
Oct 12 15:27:41 * arn ( entrou em #wikimedia-office
Oct 12 15:27:54 <dmacks> That way it's not just editors who watch the few specific pages that the class edits, but instead others interested in the field.
Oct 12 15:27:56 <Fluffernutter> ram___, ideally someone checking for copyvio will check the timeline - if the content was in the article before the blog post was published, then it's probably the blog violating, not the student, etc
Oct 12 15:27:59 <Hmundol> dmacks: yes, and we can and should have done more of this - and we will going forward
Oct 12 15:28:00 * arnav saiu (Quit: Page closed)
Oct 12 15:28:06 <Vibhijain> this is where attribution benifits
Oct 12 15:28:16 <fschulenburg> dmacks: yes, that's certainly a good idea
Oct 12 15:28:18 <ram___> what in case of website?
Oct 12 15:28:25 <a_r_n> yes ram___ patrol guys do check the timeline
Oct 12 15:28:35 * Netha (75fe73dd@gateway/web/freenode/ip. entrou em #wikimedia-office
Oct 12 15:28:52 <ram___> how would they get the page creation date in case of a website?
Oct 12 15:28:58 <Theo10011> ram___, our content is CC, in case of other blogs mirroring content that is a possible copyvio, the onus is on them to update. Our concern should be wikipedia itself.
Oct 12 15:28:59 <ram___> blogs are okay, I can understand
Oct 12 15:29:04 <Vibhijain> fluffernutter: not each webiste will show the date
Oct 12 15:29:05 <Vibhijain> only blogs do
Oct 12 15:29:27 <Hmundol> ok, now my fingers are resting to avoid the onset of rapid arthritis but happy to take any further questions...
Oct 12 15:29:34 <Vibhijain> at last, attribution is requird whether on blog or website
Oct 12 15:29:40 <Fluffernutter> that's true, Vibhijain. Sometimes you can check the wayback machine, which archives non-blog websites too, and find the same information, but that doesn't always work
Oct 12 15:29:44 * debastein1 (0e616e24@gateway/web/freenode/ip. entrou em #wikimedia-office
Oct 12 15:29:48 <ram___> but the student might suffer if they don't follow CC guidelines
Oct 12 15:30:00 <Vibhijain> thats also right
Oct 12 15:30:05 <ram___> they means the website
Oct 12 15:30:26 <a_r_n> ram___: chances are rare
Oct 12 15:30:29 <ram___> one of my students is facing this issue
Oct 12 15:30:32 <srikanthlogic> ram___: lets us be ethical and not care about rest of world ?
Oct 12 15:30:36 <ram___> and it's not rare
Oct 12 15:30:46 <a_r_n> ram___: link please ??
Oct 12 15:30:48 * Wasimmogal2007 (71c19cd7@gateway/web/freenode/ip. entrou em #wikimedia-office
Oct 12 15:31:00 <ram___> one sec
Oct 12 15:31:39 * Sodabottle_ saiu (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
Oct 12 15:31:43 <ldavis> any other questions?
Oct 12 15:31:57 <debastein1> what exactly is the question at hand??
Oct 12 15:32:01 * sodabottle (74ca84dc@gateway/web/freenode/ip. entrou em #wikimedia-office
Oct 12 15:32:11 <ram___>
Oct 12 15:32:20 <ram___>
Oct 12 15:33:05 <ram___>
Oct 12 15:33:06 <Abhi_> Thanks to Admins who are monitoring Copy-vios...Teachers are "happy" that they dont have to worry about checking it, because community and admin's are doing it...
Oct 12 15:33:07 * DarkoNeko saiu (Quit: Saigo no mori kara saisho no kouya he hakobarete yuku~)
Oct 12 15:33:17 <Hmundol> I also want to reach out today and ask for help from as many of you folks as possible (and beyond to those who aren't on today). There are a bunch of students doing some amazing work. Givne they are all newbies, their learning curves have been fantastically inspiring. …and the Cmapus and ONline Ambassadors have done some spectacular work - but they need help in the form. Any help that you can extend to the program wil
Oct 12 15:33:17 <Hmundol> wonderfully welcome
Oct 12 15:33:25 <Vibhijain> maybe u should contact the webiste
Oct 12 15:33:46 <Hmundol> There are many students who will need more hand-holding - especially as they approach the end of their semesters.
Oct 12 15:33:46 <fschulenburg> @all: It seems like this kind of meeting is helpful. What can we do in the future to keep the lines of communication more open?
Oct 12 15:34:05 <debastein1> I would second in thanking the admins for dealing with the copyvios...
Oct 12 15:34:09 <srikanthlogic> Hmundol: would like to see students reaching out for help, frankly i was little tied up with conf couldnt monitor contribs..
Oct 12 15:34:21 <nitika> +fschulenburg: absoluetley! think its a great idea
Oct 12 15:34:30 <sodabottle> yes hmundol. have the students drop by in our talk pages
Oct 12 15:34:32 <srikanthlogic> but i was on IRC, got only one help req in a whole week, my talk page was untouched. I am ready to help if people reach out :)
Oct 12 15:34:47 <Vibhijain> maybe we should encourage them to be a part of the conference
Oct 12 15:34:48 <sodabottle> i dont want to go and trawl through the contrib history of all of them
Oct 12 15:35:03 <a_r_n> Vibhijain: we did
Oct 12 15:35:09 <Vibhijain> oh
Oct 12 15:35:18 <Abhi_> Yes, we did
Oct 12 15:35:25 <a_r_n> srikanthlogic: students don't come on IRC
Oct 12 15:35:29 <a_r_n> we asked them a lot
Oct 12 15:35:32 <Vibhijain> what was the responce?
Oct 12 15:35:33 <Hmundol> srikanthlogic & soda bottle : yes, i know that more students ought to be reaching out but sometimes they don't even know the mistake they are committing so don't reach out. …what the Campus Ambassadors have been doing i s proactively going to contrib histories and checking in. …unfortunately, that seems to the only way that it's worked.
Oct 12 15:35:34 <debastein1> the problem is most of these students are still a part of the facebook generation...not very adept with writing on people's talk pages in Wiki or on IRC...
Oct 12 15:35:40 <a_r_n> but don't know why they still avoid it
Oct 12 15:35:48 <Vibhijain> ya
Oct 12 15:36:08 <Vibhijain> mayb we need to help them by fb or gtalk
Oct 12 15:36:11 <Hmundol> to give you another example, in a (large) class in the engineering student, Mihir, on of the Campus AMbassadros, actually went from desk to desk and ask every single student (>80 of them) if they had any problems...
Oct 12 15:36:12 <dmacks> It seems like their user-talk page should be a familiar concept--leaving messages to each other on "their wall".
Oct 12 15:36:17 <Hmundol> coz he found that the majority were just quiet
Oct 12 15:36:20 <sodabottle> hisham, if they just pop to to say hi i did this today, can you check if its alright is enough for me to go and check
Oct 12 15:36:23 <srikanthlogic> Hmundol: there have been cases of students not reaching / responding even after talk page warnings, heard they just disappear
Oct 12 15:36:35 <fschulenburg> sodabottle: there's actually a tool that lists the contributions that students made to the article namespace within the last 24 hours. I takes a while to load though.
Oct 12 15:36:37 <sodabottle> i was a online mentor in last sem's PPP and those guys did this
Oct 12 15:36:41 * Fluffernutter thinks the campus ambassadors are doing a FANTASTIC job by the way. The ones that were working with me on student copyvio issues were amazingly responsive
Oct 12 15:36:43 <Hmundol> sodabottel: of course it is ok for you to go and check . by all means
Oct 12 15:36:54 <Srikeit> I'm digressing a bit but there's another issue that I'd like to bring up with the way forward
Oct 12 15:37:05 <sodabottle> thanks frank. bookmarked it
Oct 12 15:37:29 <a_r_n> and Srikeit is alive :-D ??
Oct 12 15:37:30 <Srikeit> To mitigate the mainspace copyvios we've asked students to post in sandboxes which will be graded
Oct 12 15:37:47 <Srikeit> Very much, sir :P
Oct 12 15:37:47 <nitika> I think we could evolve a two way communication...where we share your userids with the students and ask them to reach out to you guys for any help. On the other hand it will be great if yoiu all could reach out to there talk pages as well and leave them notes as to how they can improve their articles to eli them in anyw way possible.
Oct 12 15:38:13 <fschulenburg> sodabottle: and here's a tool that shows the contributions to the article namespace by classes:
Oct 12 15:38:17 <a_r_n> sodabottle: there's another
Oct 12 15:38:19 <a_r_n> for you
Oct 12 15:38:21 <a_r_n> aagh
Oct 12 15:38:26 <fschulenburg>  :-)
Oct 12 15:38:30 <dmacks> Seems like it would be easy to put together a pile of RSS feeds for the student-contribs in a class. Would take the load off toolserver.
Oct 12 15:38:42 <a_r_n> fschulenburg: these are simply superb :)
Oct 12 15:38:49 <sodabottle> nitika > that would be good for five seven people. I have 40 students to keep an eye on and watchlisting / visiting all their pages isnt feasible
Oct 12 15:38:50 <dmacks> Wow okay, that's a nice tool!
Oct 12 15:39:01 <debastein1> I think a nice way of doing it would be...asking the students to first put on their sandboxes and have a link or something for them to put it up for review...
Oct 12 15:39:02 <fschulenburg> dmacks: that sounds like a great idea
Oct 12 15:39:09 <Srikeit> Problem is, copyvios aren't permitted in the sandbox either. We've had people already tracking copyvios in sandboxes. I think the whole problem will move there instead.
Oct 12 15:39:32 <debastein1> and you would make a whole list of IEP only where you can see all the students who want their sandboxes reviewed...
Oct 12 15:39:39 <Fluffernutter> it's a little bit less panic-inducing to see a copyvio in a sandbox, because it's at least less urgent that it be dealt with
Oct 12 15:39:43 * tahera saiu (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
Oct 12 15:39:48 <Pratik_> we CA's are already revieving each and every sanbox for copyvios
Oct 12 15:39:58 <Hmundol> Srikeit: copyvios shouldn't be happening anywhere - and to that extent, I prefer them to be identified and controlled in sandboxes
Oct 12 15:40:24 <dmacks> fschulenburg: as part of the editor-tracking, it would be helpful if the class pages linked to all students' accounts. [[Wikipedia:India Education Program/Courses/Fall 2011/Machine Drawing and Computer Graphics]] has lots of non-linked names.
Oct 12 15:40:44 * fschulenburg takes a note
Oct 12 15:40:49 <Srikeit> I agree but I think we need to send out a very strong image that the copyvios that weren't tolerated in mainspace are not tolerated in the sandbox either
Oct 12 15:41:00 * Theo10011_a (~Theo10011@ entrou em #wikimedia-office
Oct 12 15:41:06 <Abhi_> +1 to Srikeit
Oct 12 15:41:13 <Hmundol> I second Fluffernutter's warm words about Campus Ambassadors. Although you have cause my already dangerously depleted hair line to recede frighteningly since this program started, you are awesome!
Oct 12 15:41:15 <srikanthlogic> Srikeit: agree
Oct 12 15:41:19 <debastein1> reveiwing yes, but I feel it would be better if we gave them a link or something to a page where all the sandboxes that want to be reviewed be there and admins, CA's and OA can take a look at that list and review them one by one...
Oct 12 15:41:21 <Srikeit> *image = message
Oct 12 15:41:38 * Theo10011 saiu (Disconnected by services)
Oct 12 15:41:46 * Theo10011_a agora chama-se Theo10011
Oct 12 15:41:50 <debastein1> I second the fact that Fluffernutter is awesome...
Oct 12 15:41:52 * Theo10011 saiu (Changing host)
Oct 12 15:41:53 * Theo10011 (~Theo10011@wikimedia/Theo10011) entrou em #wikimedia-office
Oct 12 15:42:02 * Vibhijain saiu (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
Oct 12 15:42:04 <Fluffernutter> o_O
Oct 12 15:42:09 <ram___> +1 for fluffernutter
Oct 12 15:42:15 <Abhi_> Third to fact - Fluffernutter is awesome..
Oct 12 15:42:16 * Fluffernutter rapidly changes the subject to something other than me
Oct 12 15:42:24 <Pratik_> fourth.....
Oct 12 15:42:29 <a_r_n> also we need to tell them that MOST images from internet are under copyrights
Oct 12 15:42:31 <Hmundol> FIFTH
Oct 12 15:42:41 <nitika> SIXTH!
Oct 12 15:42:44 <a_r_n> we having some issues on commons also
Oct 12 15:42:51 <a_r_n> SEVENTH!
Oct 12 15:42:53 <Srikeit> I fear the sandbox option may open a pandora's box of people thinking they've gotten an assignment stepdown where copyvios are permitted. We just might see a bigger flood of copyvios
Oct 12 15:42:58 <debastein1> yes, thought you initally scared all the students but you helped not only them but also us the ambassadors to a great extent fluffernutter...
Oct 12 15:43:17 <debastein1> I second Srikeit...
Oct 12 15:43:22 <nitika> a_r_n: we're actively telling students not to use any image from google or any other website.
Oct 12 15:43:26 <debastein1> I got a query like that just today...
Oct 12 15:43:35 <dmacks> nitika: thanks
Oct 12 15:43:47 <a_r_n> debastein1: regarding ?
Oct 12 15:43:51 <debastein1> where a student asked if copyvios are permitted in the sandbox...
Oct 12 15:43:57 <Srikeit> debastein1: about copyvios in the sandbox?
Oct 12 15:44:02 <Pratik_> we have also told them to make images/graphs of their own
Oct 12 15:44:03 <debastein1> yes...
Oct 12 15:44:03 <Srikeit> ah
Oct 12 15:44:23 <Pratik_> (if possible)
Oct 12 15:44:26 <debastein1> But I was very harsh...said, it will still be deleted and the student won't be graded..
Oct 12 15:44:28 <Hmundol> so the solution is simple, tell everyone every time that copyvios are not allowed anywhere anytime by anyone. period.
Oct 12 15:44:48 <debastein1> exactly, we need to be a bit harsh about copyvios...
Oct 12 15:44:48 <dmacks> Should {{Uw-copyright}} explicitly state that it applies to all namespaces?
Oct 12 15:45:13 <Srikeit> Hmundol nitika: I think the profs need to tell their students that copyvios will result in their assignment not being graded even if it is in the sandbox
Oct 12 15:45:36 <Srikeit> dmacks: I think it should
Oct 12 15:45:49 <Hmundol> the communication regarding sandboxes in no way suggests that there are any relaxed standards there - so don't think we are going to get an incrementally higher ratio of copyvios in sandboxes because of that
Oct 12 15:45:51 <debastein1> problem is...the profs seem to be too overburdened with their own work to do all this...
Oct 12 15:46:03 <nitika> sriket: definitely! thats exactly how it is.. no matter what, if the copycio is in the sandbox or mainspace the students will not be graded
Oct 12 15:46:15 <Hmundol> Srikeit: yup, and I know that both Directors are actively considering it.
Oct 12 15:46:21 <ram___> I've an idea, instead of we telling them what is copyvio, instead let's ask they what they think is copyvio? We need to find the gaps and fill them
Oct 12 15:46:25 <debastein1> Directors are awesome...
Oct 12 15:46:55 <Abhi_> Directors are awesome +1
Oct 12 15:47:08 <debastein1> but how can I tell the student to not write thier article on the last day if the faculty only plans to check it in one??
Oct 12 15:47:11 <Pratik_> I think the very fact that we are askng students to COMPULSORILY write in sandboxes and get it reviewed from CA's will reduce copyvio's in sandboxes.They know that their copyvios will be detected.
Oct 12 15:47:14 <Abhi_> *Reminds me to update Video Diary
Oct 12 15:47:14 <Srikeit> Hmundol : The communication however has been that sandboxes are place where you can screw up a bit. If copyvios have been abundant in mainspace, this may seem like an implicit acquiescence to copyvios.
Oct 12 15:47:25 * Devanshi saiu (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
Oct 12 15:47:38 <debastein1> As far as this phase I think we have to improve much on faculty communication.
Oct 12 15:48:05 <srikanthlogic> on another wilder thought, part of the problem came from "imposing the assignment" and not getting only the interested folks..
Oct 12 15:48:28 <srikanthlogic> am sure no way 800 students of an institute would have been really interested in indiaedu program
Oct 12 15:48:31 <nitika> Srikeit: we have placed sandbox as a place where students can practice writing articles in their own words - rephrase it, reference it properly and get it approved before moving it to the mainspace
Oct 12 15:48:35 <debastein1> but how else do you have a grading system...
Oct 12 15:48:36 <Hmundol> Srikeit: which communication on sandboxes are you referring to? I am referring to "We'd request all the professors to reiterate this point in the class and direct the students to edit only in their sandbox and make no more edits in the article mainspace. From this point onwards, we should encourage students to write only in the sandbox."
Oct 12 15:48:53 <debastein1> I know students...who at the start of this hated editing wikipedia to the core...
Oct 12 15:48:55 <srikanthlogic> so next time, one shouldnt go for larger numbers from single place is what i feel
Oct 12 15:49:01 <debastein1> but are now avid wikipedians...
Oct 12 15:49:26 <Hmundol> srikanthlogic: yes, many of the faculty initially insisted that they would have all their students edit but that is now being tempered
Oct 12 15:49:39 <srikanthlogic> debastein1: am sure there are atleast 200 who would continue to hate wikipedia beyond this program
Oct 12 15:49:46 * vigorous_afk saiu (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
Oct 12 15:49:55 <a_r_n> srikanthlogic: +1
Oct 12 15:49:59 <debastein1> but if you give them an option, they tend to go for the easier route as they can copypaste on projects given by the faculty...
Oct 12 15:50:10 <srikanthlogic> infact the program created a negative impression (however wrong / right they may be) of wikipedia which was not the goal at all
Oct 12 15:50:11 <ram___> @shrikant but we might have 500+ new editors
Oct 12 15:50:34 <debastein1> well in my class of 100 about 30 - 40 are avid wikipedians me that is a success...
Oct 12 15:50:34 <ram___> who will spread the word that "it's easy to edit"
Oct 12 15:50:37 <Hmundol> srikanthlogic: didn't get the point on the negative impression?
Oct 12 15:50:59 <Abhi_> I never used used wikipedia, but I started editing FOR MARKS, then I found it interesting, and now I write on wikipedia regularly - Student from IEP.
Oct 12 15:51:01 <Hmundol> debastein1: agree fully. …and in all the many issues we are facing, do let's not forge that
Oct 12 15:51:22 <srikanthlogic> Hmundol: (STUDENT A: )If i was forced to write article for marks, get blocked for copyvios(which i dont care a damn), and get lower grades, would i still love wikipedia ?
Oct 12 15:51:27 <nitika> ram___: +1
Oct 12 15:51:34 <fschulenburg> srikanthlogic: 72% of the US students (spring term 2011) who responded to a survey indicated that they would prefer a Wikipedia assignment to writing a traditional term paper
Oct 12 15:51:37 <dmacks> It's great that we get at least some new editors out of this and some new content. If some students who hated it still hate it or who never cared about it now hate it, that's not much of a loss.
Oct 12 15:51:39 <debastein1> I myself am an example...I initally never edited and when Wikipedia CA's came...I hated hearing their boring lecture...
Oct 12 15:51:40 <Srikeit> Hmundol nitika : I'm not talking about the communication sent out now but what we have been telling them in classes during editing session. That sandboxes are test spaces. Anyway, I just believe that the point that copyvios continue to be not tolerated even in the sandbox must be reinforced.
Oct 12 15:51:43 * vigorous_afk (~v_a@wikimedia/vigorous-action) entrou em #wikimedia-office
Oct 12 15:51:44 * Odisha1 saiu (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
Oct 12 15:52:00 <debastein1> but once I started it...I fell so much in love that I became a Campus Ambassador...
Oct 12 15:52:20 <Abhi_> They hate "Editing" not Reading Wikipedia.... :-)
Oct 12 15:52:40 <ram___> guys the point here is to create "followers" and yes we are doing that for sure
Oct 12 15:52:41 <Srikeit> dmacks: But that trade-off is a massive headache for you and other NPPs ;)
Oct 12 15:52:59 <Abhi_> and once they start editing, and get good responce from community , they love editing too
Oct 12 15:53:12 <debastein1> look if you ask me...
Oct 12 15:53:12 <ram___> although it's a bit of institutionalization but that's okay for initial phase
Oct 12 15:53:16 <debastein1> its a pilot project...
Oct 12 15:53:28 <dmacks> Right:( I'm just saying that there definitely *is* a benefit longer-term if we can get over this huge problem at the present time.
Oct 12 15:53:30 <debastein1> more thing will go wrong than right at first...
Oct 12 15:53:32 * dungodung agora chama-se dungodung|away
Oct 12 15:53:33 <debastein1> but look at the positives...
Oct 12 15:53:40 <Hmundol> ldavis: how long are we scheduled to go on for? i assumed it was 1 hour. if so, then do let's catch any additional questions that might be there?
Oct 12 15:53:44 * Theo10011_a (~Theo10011@ entrou em #wikimedia-office
Oct 12 15:53:46 <debastein1> am sure we will have much less issues from next time...
Oct 12 15:53:48 <ldavis> yes, one hour
Oct 12 15:54:00 <ldavis> any other questions we want to take in the next 5 minutes
Oct 12 15:54:01 <ldavis>  ?
Oct 12 15:54:09 <Pratik_> this is the first time it's been implemented....IEP will only improve with time and give many good articles and editors to Wiki
Oct 12 15:54:20 * Theo10011 saiu (Disconnected by services)
Oct 12 15:54:28 * Theo10011_a agora chama-se Theo10011
Oct 12 15:54:29 <debastein1> I second <pratik>
Oct 12 15:54:38 <Hmundol> +1 to Pratik_
Oct 12 15:54:47 <debastein1> We already have a good article...
Oct 12 15:54:48 * Theo10011 saiu (Changing host)
Oct 12 15:54:49 * Theo10011 (~Theo10011@wikimedia/Theo10011) entrou em #wikimedia-office
Oct 12 15:54:52 <debastein1> and many more to come...
Oct 12 15:54:55 <Abhi_> And people may "hate" solving problem by peace, but that doesnt mean that peaceful way is bad..
Oct 12 15:54:56 <ram___> I've only one request to my fellow wikipedian and admins ...that guys please bear with us, teach us instead of lashing us
Oct 12 15:55:05 <Abhi_> + to Ram
Oct 12 15:55:09 <debastein1> +100 to ram
Oct 12 15:55:15 <Abhi_> +1 to Ram
Oct 12 15:55:16 <Pratik_> +1 to ram___
Oct 12 15:55:31 * Fluffernutter gives ram___ a cookie instead of a =1
Oct 12 15:55:35 <Fluffernutter> +1
Oct 12 15:55:39 * Fluffernutter can;t type!
Oct 12 15:55:43 <ram___> thanks @fluffernutter :)
Oct 12 15:55:44 <dmacks> After this pilot project is done, please write about it (experiences of CAs and profs, what worked and suggestions for next time, etc.) in a page at [[Wikipedia:School and university projects]]
Oct 12 15:55:46 <Abhi_> Please teach us, and point out - if we go wrong
Oct 12 15:55:47 * tahera (ca478faa@gateway/web/freenode/ip. entrou em #wikimedia-office
Oct 12 15:55:48 <Theo10011> Guys, we are approaching the end of this meeting.
Oct 12 15:55:49 <srikanthlogic> ram___: to start with edit more, more than the course stuff, you wont feel the "us vs wikipedians"
Oct 12 15:55:56 <debastein1> just bear with us....this is thie first time all these students are facing copyright violations...
Oct 12 15:56:11 <Abhi_> @dmacks - There's video diary too...
Oct 12 15:56:20 <ram___> us means the students
Oct 12 15:56:38 <sodabottle> yes ram. there is no us vs wikipedians. unless you branch out and experiment a little, you wont gain experience
Oct 12 15:56:40 <Hmundol> dmacks: nitika is working on a comprehensive detailing of every single learning.
Oct 12 15:56:46 <dmacks> great!
Oct 12 15:56:47 <Abhi_>  :)
Oct 12 15:56:53 <Srikeit> dmacks: I'm presenting about the pilot at WikiConference India in November, would love your inputs for the same. Will get in touch with you about it soon.
Oct 12 15:57:02 <dmacks> Alright.
Oct 12 15:57:37 <debastein1> Have faith in this program guys, wait for the storm to end...:P
Oct 12 15:57:40 <Hmundol> alright peoples, now that we are near the end, i just wanted to mention that I think Fluffernutter is awesome...
Oct 12 15:57:55 <Pratik_> second
Oct 12 15:57:55 <debastein1> +1 again
Oct 12 15:57:57 <Theo10011> The sammish too
Oct 12 15:57:57 <Pratik_> :D
Oct 12 15:57:57 <ram___> AWESOME \m/
Oct 12 15:57:58 * Fluffernutter implodes
Oct 12 15:58:01 <nitika> dmacks: i shall share it with you all shortly :)
Oct 12 15:58:05 <Theo10011> *sammich
Oct 12 15:58:10 <fschulenburg>  :-D
Oct 12 15:58:10 <Abhi_> Again second to this - Fluffernutter is awesome
Oct 12 15:58:33 * Fluffernutter (Fluffernut@wikipedia/Fluffernutter) saiu de #wikimedia-office ("aghhhhh, the kindness, it burns!")
Oct 12 15:58:34 <Srikeit> Sandwiches were always awesome
Oct 12 15:58:38 <ram___> thanks guys
Oct 12 15:58:45 <dmacks> Yeah, Fluffernutter is awesome, even if now imploded. White Dwarf Fluffernutter!
Oct 12 15:58:47 <Theo10011> The logs will be available on Meta, later.
Oct 12 15:58:48 <ldavis> and a huge thank you to all the editors (including Fluffernutter!) who have been helping out with the students in India -- it's really made a difference, even though it's hard to see sometimes when you're in the middle of it
Oct 12 15:58:54 * KING (7aaa1d05@gateway/web/freenode/ip. entrou em #wikimedia-office
Oct 12 15:58:55 <ram___> bye 4 now
Oct 12 15:58:59 <Hmundol> +1 ldavis.
Oct 12 15:58:59 <fschulenburg> Would you like to have another IRC meeting in a few weeks from now?
Oct 12 15:59:01 <KING> Hello
Oct 12 15:59:03 <Theo10011> ldavis, she is an admin too.
Oct 12 15:59:12 <a_r_n> fschulenburg: yes
Oct 12 15:59:15 <ram___> KING must be Mihir
Oct 12 15:59:16 <dmacks> Thanks to all CAs and others for making time for this discussion.
Oct 12 15:59:19 * KING agora chama-se Guest68
Oct 12 15:59:31 <Guest68> ram___:
Oct 12 15:59:38 <Abhi_> Thank You Admins and Community, for teaching and inspiring us...
Oct 12 15:59:40 <a_r_n> but king is registered user
Oct 12 15:59:41 <Guest68> ram___: yes But someone changed my name
Oct 12 15:59:45 <a_r_n> sorry Guest68 :(
Oct 12 15:59:55 <Theo10011> Thanks fschulenburg Hmundol ldavis nitika
Out 12 16:00:04 <a_r_n> Guest68: its because KING is registered IRC user
Out 12 16:00:05 <ldavis> thank you Theo10011!
Out 12 16:00:08 <Theo10011> and a good day to all.