This Month in Education: June 2023 Edit

Wikimedians_of_Japan_User_Group Edit

Hello. I suggest keeping everything to a single language. Having two languages on the same page makes it messy. The page content language can be changed if you decide to use Japanese. --Minorax«¦talk¦» 09:15, 21 July 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Thank you for the input, and is a great chance to see the feasibility for me. This page talks about 2023-2026 time span, I mind you.
Is the understanding correct, that as far as they keep things in ja only, paid translators will take care of putting/revising things into en for whoever reader request that arrangement? Or dividing by lnaguage can at least split messiness
For the time being, how do you evaluate the readability of the same page for the native speakers? IMHO it inevitably gives fake image that the group is not facing toward the peer speakers, but the Foundation or anybody needing pages in en. I have to admit that kind of scheptics are not very helpful at an infancy of any group in any setting, if it can avoid such image making. The page is messy: you don't have things in en as much as it is given in ja, a sad fact.
If the managing users will have to do the same translation tasks twice:
  • for sharing with the community,
  • and for Reporting to the ESEAP POs.
Omotecho (talk) 09:39, 21 July 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Hi, @Minorax, here goes an update, and the project initiator advised me that they needs to concentrate on binding Rapid Fund Report for the time being. While peers jumped in to smooth translation units, we won’t push to make the page into bilingual/internationalization urgently.
FYI, usually towards the mid-August, things slow down in Japanese society in general due scorching heat as well as younger children stay home for summer vacation.
Would love to consult you for wisdom before long, cheers, Omotecho (talk) 18:06, 28 July 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Growth team newsletter #27 Edit

12:42, 1 August 2023 (UTC)

日本人に対してテンプレート「Welcome」をそのままでsubst:展開しないでください。 Edit


User talk:シェン,アーナリー,ン,アーバァ.の令和5年8月2日 (水) 01:32時点]におけるあなたによるをご覧ください。

  • まず、{{Welcome}}を張る場合、このテンプレートが見出し「Welcome to Meta!」を生成するため、節「Welcome」は必要ありません。
  • そして、名前の通り、またバベルに記載がないことからお察しの通り、私は英語を翻訳機に頼らずに読むことができません。ですから、{{Welcome}}を英語のままsubst:展開しないでください。



ともかく、英語が理解できない利用者に英語で話しかけ続けないでください。メタ・ウィキメディアに日本語版はありませんが、それは基本的に言語に縛られないことの裏返しでもあります。私はあなたの英語による発言の理解のために6時間を失いました。日本語も英語も理解できるあなたには難しいかもしれませんが、英語ではなく「理解できない言語」で話しかけられるということと、翻訳ではなく「理解できる言語に変換しようとする」ことについて、今一度考えるべきです。 シェン,アーナリー,ン,アーバァ. (talk, ja.Wikipedia: talk) 03:01, 3 August 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

  Note: いったんコメントアウト、話題の分断を避けるためtalkページ 25400759 番のこの差分へ転記しました。いずれアーカイブし記録を残します。-- Omotecho (talk) 04:51, 3 August 2023 (UTC) / アーカイブ発動前に分断元の話題スレッドへ転記。 --Omotecho (talk) 02:29, 4 August 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

This Month in Education: July 2023 Edit

ESEAP activities and user group Edit

Hi, it was nice to meet at the Wikimedia Library event in Singapore. Actually I was taking part in the Wikimania this year to get to know more people from ESEAP-region and it was a welcome surprise having the opportunity to talk to you at this event. The ESEAP activities are entering the new round, the preparation for next years conference in April/May. For this a survey was send (Link to Google forms). Maybe you did fill it out already (?), in this case apologies for the cross-posting. I am a bit struggling to fill it out, because I can't speak for the Japanese community. I had a deeper look in the user group page again and I think, that especially the language aspect is important and language means English. Not only, because we are talking to the native speakers, but mainly, because English is the Lingua franca of the Movement (you know this, but it was written above wrong, a lot of Japanese think, that English is for the native English speakers, but that is only part of the picture). 勿論、日本で日本語が使ている必要と思います。And sorry for making it a bit messy, but this language problem is important and in the moemnt not prominently on the ESEAP agenda. I think it is also important for other communities. Greeting from Ai24 (talk) 06:41, 28 August 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Hello, thank you to inform me you share the same concern: English is the linga franca, but we respect diversity including languages. That is perfect on our 2023 Strategy.
OK, to make it short: Good part is that there is a group working to nominate themselves as the helpers to any ja language community users, starting fresh in the Spring of 2023. However, I am not sure how far they have followed Wikimania.
Please recall the procedure how you have applied and was approved to gain the resource and operated the brilliant largest Wikimania ever? Was the process very inter-lingua as pages are prepared in your familiar language? I am very sure you need survey results so that you can write the Grantee Report due in weeks to come. Then, if you prepare the survey in official languages of Wikimania, or Singapore herself, what will you loose?
For practicality concerning ESEAP region and how we hold to its language diversity:
we are the richest on this planet if you count the local language we still preserve for millennia !(^o^)! That said, ESEAP Community Resource team has stretched their goal by inviting more WMF Grant application by inventing multilingual approach.
  1. Look into Grants application page, it lowers the fence for future grantee to understand how they will propose their plans on the official the Fluxx, or the site outside of wiki sphere; just like your Google Form, it is written 100% in English;
  2. on Metawiki, we have a translatable page for the same questions grantee-to-be are asked to fill on Fluxx in English;
  3. so to speak, why Wikimania does not have a surveyees' Sandbox, or tutorial on Metawiki, like the CR team coined?
You know, the hard part, or what I have grutch on, is that the first gateway Fluxx rejects you when you don't write English. And the same sadness comes in when I go to your Google Form survey. I can jump the barrier of language, but I wish more of your audience will tell you how they were excited to welcome Wikimania Singapore at the heart of our international community.
Ja community looks very silent and even timid from the outside, since members seldom come to English sphere. Well, editing oriented brains are too busy to care for spending hours copy-paste questionnairs from Google Form to Google Translate, sum up your happy feeling about Wikimania Singapore in native tongue, put it though Google Translate, then paste it on Google Form... Isn't it an endless Pokemon-hunt without any monster you gain? Does it not sound familiar to you before you found comfort maneuvering on wikimedia ? We can change the game. It was ten days before ratification vote for UCoC, and with pages in en-ja translation, ja community users made a record input, from average 100- to 3,000+.
Last but not least, I have to confess that myself feeling fooled by the coordination between Eventyey/YouTube/Wikimania sites, and abondoned clicking through tabs on my iPhone11 as I was on a countryside with bad web connection (they will bill me a heck in September anyway.) Spent considerable time at home to build "my timeline", then on mobile, it was a joke trying to click trough and find the right session page; all is what I have input on the Google Form.
I am sorry we are running out of time to experiment how Singapore leads the way for conferences in ESEAP. I remain in respect Singapore culture how you communicate beyond language, it is like a model for how we will live on a spaceship Earth (; Good day to you, -- Omotecho (talk) 07:24, 28 August 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Thank you for the insightful comments. I am also convinced that language represents an important key to worldwide problems. And this key is hidden in broad daylight. Of course a lot of people are aware of "language problems" and translators (and the like) are hired to solve them. However, we know, that it is not about these surface problems, because needless to say, that languages can (and should) be translated. I think you outlined a quite good approach to handle these developments on a data-level. Indeed I had similar ideas and tried to establish a contact to Wikimedia Deutschland, also related to other issues. But the grand-application process, which I avoided until now, is definitely a key, which is related to language. I will have a look at this. But before this survey has to be filled out (deadline September 1.). I will write about the language issues, there is also the Documentation of last summit (2023), with the etherpads, showing how language should be handled. Indeed I am glad, that ESEAP is evolving like it does and my aim is not to facilitate a representation of Japan in ESEAP, but of course I am more than willing to help with this. There are however other things, which need to be addressed, not for the Wikimedians of Japan alone. The central point is not the quietness of the Japanese Wikimedians, you are one of the examples, that this is not the case. But the movement has to go beyond the language threshold, which it is not really aware of in the moment. Greetings from Nagoya, Ai24 (talk) 02:24, 29 August 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Ai24, my gratitude that you made me a doer once, I am a big-mouth talker otherwise (;
Kindly see a page to assist ja speakers, reading the survey questions in ja translation. Still, they will open Google Form to put through their ideas on the table.
Would you kindly advise me if there are other channels we can put how users can contribute to the Survey? It is mentioned at: (italic part are mended, sorry for confusion.)
I wish that kind of testing stick will make people try out the water, convinced that the water is not too cold or too hot for them to dip their hands/feet.
Changing the subject:
Apology that while I have signed up to WML session in Singapore, I was not able to attend remotely from a mountain top. Yes, WML is a treasure that would back up our language issues as well: pitty .ja domain libraries and archives are donating very slowly, but there is a ring leader / jawp user who has been doing lectures onsite, and extending the ring of librarians/archivists gradually who understand we share the eager to make knowledge free for anyone. wow.
My focus on WML persists when you look at those artworks by Japanese artists on Wikimedia Commons. In this case, English sphere is loosing knowledge they otherwise could gain freely, while the present owners of each art have donated them to the world as images in high quality. I admire them on Commons, doodling, but, sadly filling their description in both en/ja is a huge Commons Project for those who are concerned. So many of art pieces are still without good/referenced description in either language.
You know, they are in very good care abroad, maybe could not have survived otherwise when you think about the turmoil post 1868 or during 1940s. If libraries/archives in Japan donates those references/biblio resources on WML, that means those art pieces will be freed from orphaned state, and will tell us their own stories, such a joy to appreciate art, a key to, well, happy moments. Maybe I am too selfish as far as art-and-craft goes.
Pls take care, three typhoons and tropical winds are what we will have toward the weekend. Maybe they will keep you in Singapore-mood (; And the Super Moon, too. Wishing our skies will clear along the archipelago, --Omotecho Omotecho (talk) 03:27, 29 August 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Sorry for being late in my answer. And it seems that the Typhoons spare the main islands, but Okinawa is once again affected. And what is happening to the islands here, is also happening all over the pacific islands. Fortunately, in terms of resilience Japan has also a lot to offer for the world. And in the arts I couldn't agree more, my wife in an artist (日本画) and even specialists for art in Europe do not really understand, what my wife is painting, because it is less the subjects of her paintings (mainly bread and children, which sounds not so Japanese, at least, if bread is concerned), but the how is what is making the paintings different. In middle age Europe these kind of pigment-colours were also used, but they went out of fashion in the 19th century. And that is only one example. And thank you for the hints!! The strategy form is really a bingo, I did not know it at all. And what is WML? Is it Webide Meta Language? And let's see, what comes back, in terms of the survey and later the conference participation. I want to go, but I need some kind of a project (presentation etc.), because I have postpone lessons (補講) and I only can do this for projects, which are related to professional activities. Ai24 (talk) 00:47, 30 August 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Ai24 Oops, sorry I forgot to link to m:Wikipedia Library, which in term ja speakers will gain a lot at ウィキペディア図書館; it gives you log-in priorities as if you are a VIAF registered scholar or an affiliate with an academia.
As I am translating pages onto jawp, and I will be able to search/read summaries of resources which is paywalled otherwise: I can’t imagine going barehanded any longer without that service WMF had opened for users.
For projects:
I am still to join any off-wiki meetings, or editathon(s) on university premises like library/museum, could involve both students/faculty and local residents: one example of applying Wikipedia to English literature courses by an academic faculty/user. Swedish Embassy supports w:ja:WikiGap editathons. Other volunteer groups including student Wiki club exists. For Wikipedia and education, m:Diff (blog) offers good reads; Wikimedia and Education and it’s tutorials.
On the street, the Wikipedia Town, or location-focused editathons / activities are taking place, too. The organizers are listed here to make contact.
Wait and see, Wikicons like the one in Malaysia usually offer airfares and accommodation costs for non-presenters as well. Maybe bigger chance for users located in Japan, as you know, ja community offers the fourth largest contribution to wiki sphere.
Be spared of typhoon migraine; triple low pressure systems are enough and tip something in our system to affect functioning as usual. See how myself pondering a toy box of ideas, (; if it will not spoil your day. Cheers, ありがとう, Omotecho (talk) 05:06, 30 August 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Good morning. Thanks for more infos. While I knew already Wikipedia Towns (actually only the Facebook page) and the WikiLibrary, especially the WikiGap was new to me. Although my Japanese is working on a daily basis, it is difficult for me to write texts in Japanese, there would definitely need a lot of editing. In most cases, it would therefore be better, if a Japanese writer would do it. I found that WikiLibrary for my preparation of the National Library Event in Singapore. In this context a cooperation with Wkipedia Germany would make sense. As for the next ESEAP conference, money is not that important. It is time, because it is difficult for me to take time of, during the semester. My university gives me time for research, but I have to document, that I am doing research. My answers for the survey are ready and I will send it today. I hope to meet you again, could be Malaysia or could be a Wikimedia related event in Japan. By the way I had the idea to do an online meetup on a regular basis, for the Japanese Wikimedians, of course than in Japanese. I think Zoom would be a good medium for this and I thought Sunday afternoon would be a good time slot for this. Before Singapore I thought I maybe do not know enough people for doing this, but now, it would be worth a try. I would maybe start using my (private) Zoom account, therefore the time for the meeting is limited to 40 minutes. Actually writing this I thought, why not just doing it this very Sunday (9月3日, 3時午後), the meeting ID is 75167791174, the passcode is P9b96J This is NOT a recurrent meeting, I will change the credentials, every week. It is a bit sudden and if you don't have time this Sunday, no problem. I publish the meetings on my (Japanese) talk page (利用者ー会話). All the best... Ai24 (talk) 01:06, 31 August 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]