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Requests for new languages/Wikipedia Karaim

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submitted verification final decision

Discuss the creation of this language project on this page. Votes will be ignored when judging the proposal. Please provide arguments or reasons and be prepared to defend them (see the Language proposal policy).

The language committee needs to verify the language is eligible to be approved.

  • Check that the project does not already exist (see list).
  • Obtain an ISO 639 code
  • Ensure the requested language is sufficiently unique that it could not exist on a more general wiki.
  • Ensure that there are a sufficient number of native editors of that language to merit an edition in that language.

    This proposal is on hold:

    Despite the small number of speakers, the language can be eligible. However, there are no contributions to the Incubator at the moment. If contributors who actually know the language come and write articles, it may become eligible. — The preceding unsigned comment was added by Amire80 (talk) 2024-11-07 (UTC)
  • The community needs to develop an active test project; it must remain active until approval (automated statistics, recent changes). It is generally considered active if the analysis lists at least three active, not-grayed-out editors listed in the sections for the previous few months.
  • The community needs to complete required MediaWiki interface translations in that language (about localization, translatewiki, check completion).
  • The community needs to discuss and complete the settings table below:
What Value Example / Explanation
Proposal
Language code kdr (SIL, Glottolog) A valid ISO 639-1 or 639-3 language code, like "fr", "de", "nso", ...
Language name Karaim Language name in English
Language name Karaj tili Language name in your language. This will appear in the language list on Special:Preferences, in the interwiki sidebar on other wikis, ...
Language Wikidata item Q33725 - item has currently the following values:
 Item about the language at Wikidata. It would normally include the Wikimedia language code, name of the language, etc. Please complete at Wikidata if needed.
Directionality LTR Is the language written from left to right (LTR) or from right to left (RTL)?
Links Links to previous requests, or references to external websites or documents.
Site URL kdr.wikipedia.org langcode.wikiproject.org

Settings
Project name Vikipedija "Wikipedia" in your language
Project namespace usually the same as the project name
Project talk namespace "Wikipedia talk" (the discussion namespace of the project namespace)
Enable uploads no Default is "no". Preferably, files should be uploaded to Commons.
If you want, you can enable local file uploading, either by any user ("yes") or by administrators only ("admin").
Notes: (1) This setting can be changed afterwards. The setting can only be "yes" or "admin" at approval if the test creates an Exemption Doctrine Policy (EDP) first. (2) Files on Commons can be used on all Wikis. (3) Uploading fair-use images is not allowed on Commons (more info). (4) Localisation to your language may be insufficient on Commons.
Optional settings
Project logo This needs to be an SVG image (instructions for logo creation).
Default project timezone Continent/City "Continent/City", e.g. "Europe/Brussels" or "America/Mexico City" (see list of valid timezones)
Additional namespaces For example, a Wikisource would need "Page", "Page talk", "Index", "Index talk", "Author", "Author talk".
Additional settings Anything else that should be set
Once settings are finalized, a committee member will submit a Phabricator task requesting creation of the wiki. (This will include everything automatically, except the additional namespaces/settings.) After the task is created, it should be linked to in a comment under "final decision" above.

Proposal

edit

There are more than 200 speakers. More than 2,500 Karaites are shielded in total. This is an extremely active nationality in Poland, Lithuania, Ukraine, Russia. For example, there is a digital archive, its own publishing houses, under 50 different organizations and communities in Europe, scientific organizations and journals etc.

In the city of Trakai (Lithuania), with the support of the University of Cologne and Uppsala University, since 2003, a summer school for the study of the Trakai dialect of the Karaite language has been held. Eva Chato Johansson, David Nathan and Karina Firkavichiute with the support of UNESCO have developed a multimedia textbook for language learning - Spoken Karaim. This project is based on a corpus of high-quality digital audio recordings and video clips with the participation of Karaite native speakers. On the basis of this corpus, transcription, vocabulary, concordance and grammar have been developed.--Arxivist (talk) 14:16, 22 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

"more than 200 speakers"? Ethnologue says "75 in Lithuania (2014 UNSD). Ethnic population: 270. Total users in all countries: 84.", "3 in Russian Federation (2010 census). Ethnic population: 210 (2010 census).", "6 in Ukraine (Salminen 2007). Ethnic population: 1,200 (2001 census)." (unless if you're demonstraing that Ethnologue is a propaganda website no different than RT/Sputnik...) Liuxinyu970226 (talk) 12:52, 22 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Discussion

edit

Karaim has been an important literary language since the Middle Ages and was written primarily in Hebrew letters. The Karaite language also has three dialects. --Arxivist (talk) 14:16, 22 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Arxivist: If requesting Wikipedia in an Asian language with 30 thousands speakers would also doubt, then what are benefits Wikipedia should have an edition in a language with not more than 100 speakers around the world? --Liuxinyu970226 (talk) 08:31, 29 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
@Liuxinyu970226: This is a very active community. There are definitely more native speakers. Karaims are more than 3000 people in the world (adults). I created a group with the Karaite Wikipedia on Facebook and already 30 people are interested. Now I'm teaching them wiki code and stuff. Given that this is one of the three indigenous peoples of Ukraine, I see the potential for development from the state level to language learning in Ukraine. There are at least 10 regional level organizations in Ukraine. There are even more in Poland and Lithuania. As for me, the question is not only in the carriers but also in the desire of the community to have even more of them. If the incubator activity is not enough now, I will see what will happen in half a year after the Wikipedia course.
p.s. How does such a move fit with Wikimedia's 2030 strategy? I saw the approval of gender-neutral languages created by female students in an unknown number of "native speakers", and living languages / revived with living people - often discretely deprived of the possibility of their own Wikipedia. What is the reason?
p.s.s. It is one of the most ancient Turkic languages in the world.--Arxivist (talk) 08:54, 29 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
@Arxivist: "This is a very active community." where? --Liuxinyu970226 (talk) 01:05, 30 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
@Liuxinyu970226: in Ukrainian, Polish, Lithuanian society. Is the language worthy of the evaluation stage right here? But they are not even given the opportunity to translate instruments and so on. the activity of the section must necessarily be after passing the courses. Now, this is only the initial stage. How many people do you think knew about the incubator? Zero. All test pages are too internal politics, but not for people who don't know it. --Arxivist (talk) 07:21, 30 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
@Arxivist, what do you mean when you say "not even given the opportunity to translate instruments"? If you refer to the opportunity to translate the MediaWiki software, then it can certainly be enabled. No one has ever requested to enable it on translatewiki. If anyone who knows the language and plans to translate into it asks for it, I'll be happy to enable it there. Amir E. Aharoni (talk) 05:22, 25 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
For record, another language called Krymchak with likely, maybe a little better status (200 in Ukraine, 5 in Russian Federation, status: 8b (Nearly extinct) in both.) has its request got deleted, where we only suggest rejection for this one. --Liuxinyu970226 (talk) 00:19, 26 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I deleted that one because it was also submitted by someone who doesn't know the language and there was practically nothing on the request page. This request page, ideally, shouldn't exist either, because it's better for the Karaim language speakers not to look at long, confusing discussions among people who don't know their language. But some of the content in the Incubator is probably okay, so I'm not suggesting to delete it.
Both Karaim and Krymchak can probably be approved if people who know them show up and write some articles. Creating request pages before these people show up is pointless. Amir E. Aharoni (talk) 01:10, 26 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support
1. This language is dying and must become widely spread in the Internet.
  • 2. There are a lot of wikiprojects created in constructed languages with unknown number of real speakers. So I think we should see it approved. Пан Хаунд (talk) 18:11, 18 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    @Пан Хаунд The problem is, that who will ever maintain it? With such lower native speakers, I would doubt if this language match 4th LPP requirement:

Liuxinyu970226 (talk) 01:10, 19 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

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