Requests for comment/Ongoing issues at Chinese Wikipedia - Resorting to legal threats and the personal safety of HongKong Wikipedians

The following request for comments is closed. Reported user is globally banned in Office actions in September 2021. This RfC is seen to be resolved and closed.

Salve. I am a user in Chinese Wikipedia (See here). Walter Grassroot of our community was locked by administrator-淺藍雪 for three months.however, he was subsequently unblocked. Walter Grassroots was locked for calling for all Hong Kong users to be reported under the "w:Hong Kong national security law" on social media w:QQ.He was locked because his actions violated the "Do not threaten others with legal action" policy of our community.

This incident has been reported in the media. (HKFP, 2021-07-11 HKFP, 2021-07-14) He filed a complaint after claiming that he had "never made those statements and that the screenshots were obviously forged". He was later unblocked by administrator-霧島聖. However, 淺藍雪 not find his testimony credible and did not provide any evidence of forgery, so he upheld the ban on Walter Grassroot.His complaint was subsequently accepted by Outlookxp, the third party administrator, who said that he should wait for the Foundation's investigation before making a determination.

Meanwhile, another neutral administrator-Antigng, who is also investigating the matter, has used this to conclude that:

  1. The likelihood that the key piece of evidence in the incident, namely the w:QQ screenshot, was fabricated, is almost nil.
  2. The screenshot is based on a real screenshot, but has been altered - this is highly unlikely.
  3. Walter Grassroot is likely to have provided Disinformation in this discussion.

I believe that the detailed report of the administrator Antigng will be submitted to the relevant officers of the Foundation shortly, so I'd like to start the discussion here.——WMLO (talk) 21:12, 10 August 2021 (UTC)[]

  • From what I happened to see on the IRC/telegram group for zh.wp, this incident like many others is divided between the pro-gov (mainland) Chinese community and others, with the former commonly described as simply the entirity of WMC. I have also seen comparisons with the 爱孟 incident (see also all chinese RFCs). But look, I have been semi-retired from zh.wp for ages (due to both lack of good sources in Chinese in general and the balkanesque fights), so do take this with a mountain of salt. --Artoria2e5 (talk) 12:40, 11 August 2021 (UTC)[]

Timeline of Locked/Unlocked day and statement by Walter Grassroot(Collected by Pavlov2)Edit

@維基百科最忠誠的反對者:Sorry for interruption, but let me reclaim The timeline of that night. Here's the locking log of WG(Walter Grassroot)

2021年7月16日 (五) 08:37 Outlookxp 解封了Walter Grassroot (當事人已以人格擔保,待事情查明。)

2021年7月16日 (五) 07:49 淺藍雪 封禁了Walter Grassroot ,到期时间为3个月(账户创建停用) (骚扰用戶:包括此事件以外,霧島聖屡次三番维护对应用户,不认为拥有处理本事件权限,麻烦你找别的管理员来)

2021年7月16日 (五) 05:38 霧島聖 解封了Walter Grassroot (封禁事实并不存在,理由也并不充分。)

2021年7月16日 (五) 04:28 淺藍雪 封禁了Walter Grassroot,到期时间为3个月(账户创建停用) (骚扰用戶:不认为解封理由合适,见Wikipedia:管理员布告板/其他)

2021年7月16日 (五) 03:35 霧島聖 解封了Walter Grassroot(HKFR)

2021年7月16日 (五) 03:03 淺藍雪 封禁了Walter Grassroot ,到期时间为3个月(账户创建停用) (骚扰用戶:Wikipedia:管理员布告板/其他,利用官方QQ群排除异己、歧视他人,用不恰当的语言攻击他人,多次道歉仍累犯)

Let me translated them to English,

At 08:37 on Friday, July 16, 2021, outlookXP unlocked Walter Grassroot(the user has guaranteed with his moral quality, and the matter will be found out.)

At 07:49 on Friday, July 16, 2021,淺藍雪 locked Walter Grassroot and the expiration time is 3 months (account creation was disabled) (harassing users: in addition to this event, 霧島聖 has repeatedly protected the corresponding users and does not think he has the power to deal with this event. Please find another sysop)

At 05:38 on Friday, July 16, 2021, 霧島聖 unlocked Walter Grassroot (the fact for locking banned does not really exist and the reason is insufficient.)

At 04:28 on Friday, July 16, 2021,淺藍雪 locked Walter Grassroot, and the expiration time is 3 months (account creation was disabled) (harassing users: do not think the reason for unsealing is appropriate, see Wikipedia: administrator bulletin board / others)

At 03:35 on Friday, July 16, 2021,霧島聖 unlocked Walter Grassroot (hkfr)

At 03:03 on Friday, July 16, 2021, 淺藍雪 locked Walter Grassroot, and the expiration time was 3 months (account creation was disabled) (harassing users: Wikipedia: ANM, using the official QQ group to exclude dissidents, discriminate against others, attacking others with inappropriate words, apologizing for many times and still committing recidivism)

However,unlocking request seems very strange. The request of WG for unlocking is "对于HKFP的记者回答中我已经明确表示了我对于站外QQ截图的信息并不了解,并表示这种伪造证据的行为已经不是第一次第二次了。这类截图无论是TG还是QQ,每周都是1-2起……。[1]"

Let me translated it into English, WG said "In the answer to the reporter of HKPF, I have made it clear that I do not understand the information of QQ screenshots outside the station, and this kind of forge evidence is not the first time. Such forge screenshots, whether Tg or QQ, have been made 1-2 times a week--WG"

Thus meaning WG thought the accusation of legal threatening is totally forge, and he also said,"HKFP的报道后,有组织已经向WMF提请基于伪造截图中的信息进行举报,目前尚未收到基金会的回应。但基金会所辖的媒体部门已经联系我,我也于昨日、今日将我所获得的证据,以及我的声明再次以英文的方式呈交,相信这份声明与报道会很快公布。--WG July 16, 2021 (Friday) 05:51 (UTC)"

Let me translated "After the report of HKPF, some organizations have requested WMF to report based on the information in the forged screenshot. At present, no response has been received from the foundation. However, the media department under the foundation has contacted me. I also submitted the evidence I obtained yesterday and today and my statement in English. I believe this statement and report will be published soon.July 16, 2021 (Friday) 05:51 (UTC)"

Though he said the statement and the report will be published soon,BUT it has been nearly a month since this incident has passed. Has he submitted the evidence and report in time? When did he handle the evidence? Hoping deeper inspection could be made for this incident.I wish zhwiki could be saved. | Pavlov2 (talk) 15:20, 11 August 2021 (UTC)[]

The evidence supplement by Pavlov2Edit

Here are something for this incident. First of all, let's look at the screenshot, which WG said "forge" is what.


The content of these scrrenshot need to be translated, hope someone could lend a hand. Let's start from the beginning. This chat group in QQ called Wikimedia Project editor ... Which also known as an official group of Chinesewiki group.

In the first screenshot,an user called 城市酸儒文人挖坑 give a contact of National Security Agency of China and said"We can report just on the internet".Alexender said,"good, but why simplified Chinese?" 城市酸儒文人挖坑said"I use simplified Chinese"

In the second screenshot,城市酸儒文人挖坑 said "The website also allow for using simplified Chinese "Alexender said,"Oh"

And then this incident happens, an user named Walter Grassroot said "Let's report all HongKong User(to National Security Agency of China)!" 城市酸儒文人挖坑 said"Good idea, and their ID card are also great."

Adding an explanation, ID card is something used in Chinese to identify one's name,residence, birthplace and date of birth, which all considered as privacy if they are not made public previously.

Let's jump to [3] this screenshot, in this screenshot, Walter Grassroot said "Haha, someone going to attack me. But take a step backward, I am going to murder someone"

Some other screenshots still need translating, and hope someone who was not associated with WMC could lend me a hand to translate it. I wish zhwiki could be saved. | Pavlov2 (talk) 06:39, 13 August 2021 (UTC)[]

A few questions from WMLO(维基百科最忠诚的反对者)Edit

@Pavlov2:Thank you for sorting out the incident. I would like to raise a few questions with the Foundation:

  1. What is the Wikimedia Foundation's specific response to this incident?
  2. There seems to be a tentative consensus among the administrators dealing with the matter that it will be referred to the Wikimedia Foundation for adjudication. What is the Foundation's attitude to this? Will it take it up or not?
  3. Is Walter Grassroot's statement true? Sorry, because according to Antigng there is a high probability that Walter Grassroot has given false information and I think we need to check his statements.

——WMLO (talk) 17:56, 11 August 2021 (UTC)[]

Update on 2021/09/14Edit

As per recent Office actions, Walter Grassroot is now globally banned from Wikimedia projects. I would see this RfC as resolved. --LuciferianTalk 03:18, 14 September 2021 (UTC)[]

  • Hah, I was putting this “mark as resolved” on the todo list, but looks like you got here before me. The people on telegram/IRC appears mostly content with what’s done, although there is minor concerns that something similar could happen in the future. —Artoria2e5 (talk) 03:36, 14 September 2021 (UTC)[]