Grants talk:Project/Nattes à chat/Les sans pagEs

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Eligibility confirmed, round 2 2017Edit

This Project Grants proposal is under review!

We've confirmed your proposal is eligible for round 2 2017 review. Please feel free to ask questions and make changes to this proposal as discussions continue during the community comments period, through 17 October 2017.

The committee's formal review for round 2 2017 begins on 18 October 2017, and grants will be announced 1 December. See the schedule for more details.

Questions? Contact us.

--Marti (WMF) (talk) 21:57, 3 October 2017 (UTC)

Thank you Marti!--Nattes à chat (talk) 07:26, 4 October 2017 (UTC)


What portion of the effort/spending would go towards the creation of said website? --Nemo 12:17, 31 October 2017 (UTC) Hi, the amount is specified in the proposal: 150 chf. --Nattes à chat (talk) 19:00, 29 November 2017 (UTC)

Aggregated feedback from the committee for Les sans pagEsEdit

Scoring rubric Score
(A) Impact potential
  • Does it have the potential to increase gender diversity in Wikimedia projects, either in terms of content, contributors, or both?
  • Does it have the potential for online impact?
  • Can it be sustained, scaled, or adapted elsewhere after the grant ends?
(B) Community engagement
  • Does it have a specific target community and plan to engage it often?
  • Does it have community support?
(C) Ability to execute
  • Can the scope be accomplished in the proposed timeframe?
  • Is the budget realistic/efficient ?
  • Do the participants have the necessary skills/experience?
(D) Measures of success
  • Are there both quantitative and qualitative measures of success?
  • Are they realistic?
  • Can they be measured?
Additional comments from the Committee:
  • The project has some elements aligned with the Wikimedia priorities, because the project wants make strong the local communities in both countries, this could be a chance of spread more the word about free content.
  • Fits with strategic direction of knowledge equity (specifically related to decreasing gender bias/gap). Has potential for online impact but proposal does not give much consideration to sustainability of work after the grant ends.
  • The project has already been granted in the past and has a long experience, but it demonstrates that, without a regular and yearly financial support, it cannot be sustainable. The same recurrent proposal of the paid project manager doesn't make sense at that point. The community should already be mature to work without a project manager.
  • The project has left past precedence and proves to be a good project.
  • I see low risks, but these risks could make the project unsuccessfully, because the project has some goals are related with others -no grantee dependant- and it could be harder to manage to accomplish the goal ("a group ask for a grant for own activities)
  • This would be the third grant (2nd renewal) of WMF funding but I do not see much innovation or building on lessons learned. Still, the project is producing positive results and growing and diversifying our community of contributors - the main risk I see is more requests for funding next round/year.
  • Already explained at the first point. The project suggested at the start something interesting and aligned with the strategy, but it is always re-proposed with the same costs. The budget is doubled together with the deliveries but it is not sustainable. Cutting the costs of the project manager makes sense because a project is something that finishes, but here the project management seems to continue year by year.
  • I don't think the approach to solving the situation or problem is an innovative one, these smaller institution(s) can be helped under a bigger umbrella to write their own individual grant. Reluctant to approve staffing for project.
  • The budget seems realistic in spite of lack of explanation about how many events may be hosted in every city.
  • I would like fewer and more focused goals. For example, how will they achieve improved quality (i.e. featured articles)? Will new training be developed and delivered in order to reach this goal? What kind of support will be provided to the new groups and what are they hoping to achieve?
  • The goal is only to organize meetings and to write articles during these meetings. There will be the capacity to execute, but in my opinion the impact is not commensurate to the cost (1'000 articles and 10 users).
  • I think they are able to make this project work.
  • The project is well presented, with clear objectives and metrics to be measured. I see more benefits than problems about the implementation of this project in the target cities, and I think that this project could be used by other groups with the same focus (like WIkimujeres in Spain).
  • Ideally I would like to see this project be at a place on par with Art+Feminism where they have sophisticated processes established and documentation, guides, and tools at the ready for people to use/adapt. It is not quite there, but I would still like to support their efforts. I think what this project really needs is more planning around sustainability and capacity-building, and more focus on getting to a place of semi financial independence, where only a Rapid Grant is needed to support food, bus fare, etc.
  • I had several bad experience with this project. The community is often conflictual with other groups and I have personally witnessed reports of strong verbal violence. Wikimedia CH has also paid a mediator to reconcile this group with some members of the Swiss community. At a cost level, Wikimedia CH had to republish the annual report only because there was plural not female in the report. The request was aggressive and not conciliatory. Similarly, some members of the Wikimedia community or of the staff of Wikimedia CH have been referred to be "disliked people" in periodic meetings and they cannot attend. Wikimedia CH reserved some funds for this project which have been refused. In case of approval, IMHO the cost of project management should be left because it's becoming more a recurrent cost than an extraordinary cost connected with the difficulties to start a project.
  • This project is complex and looks like asking SAG. I don't support funding of Wikimania scholarship via PG

This proposal has been recommended for due diligence review.

The Project Grants Committee has conducted a preliminary assessment of your proposal and recommended it for due diligence review. This means that a majority of the committee reviewers favorably assessed this proposal and have requested further investigation by Wikimedia Foundation staff.

Next steps:

  1. Aggregated committee comments from the committee are posted above. Note that these comments may vary, or even contradict each other, since they reflect the conclusions of multiple individual committee members who independently reviewed this proposal. We recommend that you review all the feedback and post any responses, clarifications or questions on this talk page.
  2. Following due diligence review, a final funding decision will be announced on Thursday, May 27, 2021.
Questions? Contact us at projectgrants   wikimedia  · org.

Thank you for your time and efforts in reviewing the project and providing us with feedback. We are answering here shortly following the due dilligence review and the following online call with the participants to the project that we had today and will precise in the following days to:

  • have a more focused project with a beginning and an end
  • adress the question of sustainability which is raising concern
  • have more precise budgets and event dates to show what is targeted next year

The two main ideas behind this project is to get local groups take off around gender gap issues in four locations: Nantes, Paris, Grenoble and Sion (Switzerland), and to build independent fundraising capacities with an independent website. Our dedication goes to be inclusive towards new contributors interested in contributing in the gender gap issues. --Nattes à chat (talk) 23:29, 28 November 2017 (UTC) Huambo81 --Nattes à chat (talk) 23:29, 28 November 2017 (UTC)

Planned activities and budgetEdit


We are the a group of 5 women Lezecoto-EauClerc-magatim-capucine5-Huambo81 from Sion Valais (Switzerland). We are thrilled to participate to this project with the goal of filling the gap on the wikipedia's women's biography. Our part of Swizterland is bi-lingual French-German and we are planning to share our knowledge with the German speaking part, maybe through Wikimedia switzerland ( the German speaking part) We also have a local Wiki called "wikivalais" ((French) that could eventually be "melded" with Wikipedia. This could be one of our projects in 2018. Regarding that wikivalais is a state project this would have to be done in collaboration with the departement in charge of it. We were initially involved with the project "Biographie des femmes suisses"

Our group met in 2016 during a training cours given at the HES in Lausanne (University of Applied Sciences Western Switzerland). It was followed by two days of training on the 11th of March and 1st of April 2017 in Sion. This event was attended by 20 persons and was financed by the "office cantonal de l'égalité".

In 2018 we are planning to organize a monthly meeting, at the médiathèque Valais, and médiathèque St-Maurice. Our goal is to achieve as many biographies as we can, knowing that we are not "senior contributors" it is quite ambitious. We are keen to learn and eventually ask for help from a coach. A yearly event can be organized at the beginning of Autumn with all the contributors from the Swiss area or more.

Regarding our budget, an amount of CHF 300.-- monthly should cover the cost of public transport and catering, a total of CHF 3600 for 2018. We are all involved in a historical association called "Via Mulieris". This association was created with the goal of rehabilitating the role of women in the historical events of our part of Switzerland (Valais). We are willing, of course, to forward this idea further, and these local supports (Via Mullieris and Equal Opportunity Office) will help us to be sustainable in the future and not to rely entirely on funding by the WMF.--Magatim (talk) 16:37, 29 November 2017 (UTC)

The group of Sion has already provided a planning of the meetings visible on the interactive map of the project page

Planned activities:

  • work towards the setting up of a project on wikivalais throughout the end of the year
  • monthly meetings planned until April to write women bios and do some team building
  • get help from a visiting coach from the Geneva group to be trained on Wikidata and Commons and to design our project page
  • visit the german wikipedian community of Switzerland as Valais is a bilingual canton to establish links
  • December 6 2017 médiathèque de St- Maurice, rue du Simplon 6, 1890 St-Maurice
  • January 15 2018 arsenaux de Sion, rue de Lausanne 45, 1950 Sion
  • January 19 2018 (place to be determined)
  • March 12 2018
  • April 9 2018


  • 300 chf per month for catering and transport needs


We plan to work on LGBTQI issues and the history of feminism in Switzerland during monthly workshops in Lestime, an association with which we started collaborating during an Art+Feminism session in 2016. They have Wifi, a library and a welcoming place for workshops. The chosen theme is a new one and corresponds to a will to be more inclusive and tackle subjects not well covered on the francophone Wikipedia for the moment. This was discovered from past participation to a LGBT month awareness.

  • Planned workshops every last thursday of the month starting in January (reported on the interactive map mentionned above)
  • budget : 100 CHF for the catering per event to cover catering that is 1200 chf
  • impact : 3 to 8 participants per evening (starting from 3 and trying to get to 8), one published article per participant per month for experienced contributors and one article published every two months for new ones on the subject of the history of LGBTIQ or feminism in Switzerland.
  • an editathon Art+Feminism event on the 3&4 th of March 2018 and on the 8th of March is also already booked in association with a conference given by e Equal opportunity office of the University of Geneva on the 8th of March and an exhibition organized by a local association active in the domain of women artists to be held from the 27th of february to the 9th of march. We will work around the works of Charlotte Salomon and Shamsia Hassani. Funding for this event is not asked for in this grant following concern of sustainability and the reduction of the amount asked for. Lestime is leaving us the facility for free for this event.
  • Following concerns about sustainability and the fact that this is a project grant that should have a beginning and an end, I have taken away the funding for regular workshops held every monday in Geneva. I have correspondingly also taken away the project management fee. Wikimidis will be from January on be done by volunteers if they wish, and they can ask a rapid grant eventually. The planned work for this group was to address the quality of articles and try to upgrade articles produced last year. To do this we had started to have a system of article evaluation on the project page. --Nattes à chat (talk) 11:08, 30 November 2017 (UTC)


We've had some events in Paris this year, including one Art+Feminism editathon in September and an editathon at the Bibliothèque Marguerite Durand in October. Both events were highly successful and appreciated, with 20+ people attendance even though our communication was subpar. This grant will be our chance to build a sustainable community in Paris, with strong ties with Art+Feminism and the GLAM projects, among others. Our main goal is to get the people who got involved in the last events to come back and become loyal and active Wikipedia contributors, as well as introduce more people to Wikipedia.

Our projects are:

  • A themed workshop one Saturday per month: we're planning, among others, on having a workshop on Women of Color, Asian Women, Women in Sports, LGBTQ+ Femmes and Women in STEM. Our budget for this workshop is 100CHF per event to cover catering for our senior participants. We would expect around 15 to 20 participants at every meeting, with an average of one article published per participant every month. We would be meeting in an array of places, including the queer hackerspace La Mutinerie, feminist library Bibliothèque Marguerite Durand and public library and theatre La Gaîté Lyrique.
  • A local editathon in partnership with Art+Feminism, with dates and place tbd - we will probably merge this event with the usual workshop, so no specific budget allocation needed
  • As the Paris les sans pagEs community is rather new, we want to visit other local groups to meet them and learn from them. For these purposes, we would need to spend around 400CHF every 3 months, so we can have 2 people (one senior contributor + someone new and motivated or, if no new participants are available, 2 local organizers) making 4 visits per year to other groups (Geneva, Sion, Nantes, and Grenoble).
  • Sending 2 local women to national or international meetings (Wikimania, Wikiconvention, chapter membership etc.) : we'd like to request 1500CHF in total, split among 2 people (and 2 events if there are cheap travel possibilities, eg. events both in Europe) to assist us with the travel and housing costs. Paris is a big travel hub, which makes it easier for us to travel than for some other groups. Of course, we'd be glad to use this budget for someone from one of the other local groups if they can represent les sans pagEs better than the Paris contributors can.

Outside of the local needs, we need to make an impact on our communication. To these ends, we will be building and hosting a website for les sans pagEs which will include resources on how to use Wikipedia, where to contribute, where and when the events are hosted, as well as a digest of our media coverage. This way, we can go for more notoriety and, consequently, more public support. This should cost 250CHF for one year.

Our total budget is 3300CHF.

Exilexi (talk) 12:45, 30 November 2017 (UTC)


From September 2016 to June 2017, the Ateliers Femmes et Féminisme in Nantes have trained 30 new contributors including 21 women. We are now a core of 5 women and 5 other contributors join us regularly.

Our projects for next year are :

  • increase the core up to 10 people and have a total of 20 regular contributors. We believe this size will enable the group to become sustainable.
  • create an association in September 2018. This association will enable us to talk to local authorities and, in the longer term, get subsidies from them.
  • hold two workshops every month. These workshops enable us to raise our skills, train new contributors, and obviously write women biographies. Dates are available on our project.
  • organize a large event in April 2018 in Nantes, with the intention to attract up to 40 people.
  • attend other Wikipedia events to raise awareness of the gender gap issue, and advise other groups how to tackle it.
  • attend events related to the gender gap effort, in order to increase our skills, share experiences and good practices, support emerging groups.
  • attend cultural events where we can take photos of women and publish them in Commons, so that their biographies can be illustrated. Some of these events require a fee, and we don't always achieve to get a press accreditation.

We are regularly confrontated to sexist and unfriendly behaviours, we are sometimes victims of harrassment. To reduce this problem, we have decided to attend any event if and only if two of us can attend it.


  • catering for 19 workshops (50 CHF per workshop) : 950 CHF
  • communication : flyers, posters and press announcements : 300 CHF
  • insurance and legal advice against harassment : 500 CHF
  • room rental for a large event : 400 CHF
  • catering for a large event : 200 CHF
  • buying books used as references for articles : 200 CHF
  • cultural event fees : 100 CHF
  • little equipment for the group's camera : 200 CHF
  • transportation for 2 people to participate to 3 events : 900 CHF

Total : 3750 CHF

--DeuxPlusQuatre (talk) 15:45, 30 November 2017 (UTC)


Our goal in Grenoble is to initiate different audiences to contribution on Wikipedia and to the importance of the gender gap issue.
For this we will work in 2 main directions implying different kinds of events :

  • 3 editathons : create a local movement

The Events : 3 women-oriented edit-a-thons (1 full day each) about Women & Science / Female Creators in Pop Culture / and Women in Sports (simultaneously with Paris' group).

Partners : for each editathon, an organizing partner will host the event. Two of these partners are already in the picture : La Casemate and La Coop Infolab.

Expected impact :
> 15-30 participants per editathon / 1 or 2 contributions per participant = around 65 to 100 biographies of women will be created.
> More importantly, we expect to get women interested in, and concerned about, Wikipedia, and to thus create a lasting community contributing to Les sans pagEs offline or online.
> The editathon "Women in Sports", held simultaneously in Paris and Grenoble, will help us get these two communities to know each other, and will also help attract more attention on the issue.
> Most of all, these events will be an opportunity to get in touch with different kinds of communities in our geographical area (science, art, sports), to sensibilize them about the gender gap on Wikipedia and to be able to continue working with them in the future.

Why money is needed : while our partners will provide places to host the events, we will still need to pay for catering and travel expenses. 3 x 200CHF = 600CHF

  • Workshop : Women on Wikipedia through Women on Youtube

We think the gender gap on Wikipedia shares commun biaises with the gender gap on Youtube. Among youtubers, female (and some male) creators are concerned about filling this gap. In France, female youtubers founded an association for women's empowerment on Youtube. That is why we want to organize an event where Wikipedians will host (mostly female) video creators and work together to take action for women visibility.

The Workshop : 5 to 10 french-speaking youtubers will be invited for a 2 days workshop.
On the first day, participants will be trained to contribution on Wikipedia and they will each create an article about a woman with the goal to write quality contributions. On the second day, participants will collectively create a short video « Let's fill the gender gap » about the gender gap issue on Wikipedia and how we can fill it, which will be released on Les sans pagEs channel.
Afterwards, each participant will talk about the event on their personal channels (in any format suiting their editorial policy) and invite their audience to contribute themselves.

Partners : if this event is funded, we will get in touch with the association Les Internettes to co-organize the event.

Expected impact : beyond the few articles that will be created during the workshop, we expect to reach a large audience through the videos the youtubers will create, since each of them will impact their own subscribers. Our goal here is to remind that Wikipedia is a common good to which everyone can participate, raising awareness about contribution in general, and about the importance of female contribution and women biographies in particular.
Most of all, we expect the video « Wikipedia : Let's fill the gender gap » to be a real tutorial that will be hepful for any group or person (wikipedians or not) to use and share, be it online or during offline events. It will be a very valuable tool to synthesize the issue and its solutions, and to encourage people to participate in the movement.

Why money is needed : Each invited youtuber will be taken charge of (traveling + hotel + catering). Total : 2600CHF

  • Keeping in touch

In order to be able to send local participants to Les sans pagEs events taking place in other cities, we would need extra travel expenses. We think this is important to get new contributors feel involved, and to keep members in touch to be able to exchange about good practices. - 400CHF.

Total budget : 3600 CHF.

-- Opsylac (talk) 16:32, 30 November 2017 (UTC)

Replying to one of the comments of the grant comitteeEdit

I wish to comment on this statement: I had several bad experience with this project. The community is often conflictual with other groups and I have personally witnessed reports of strong verbal violence. Wikimedia CH has also paid a mediator to reconcile this group with some members of the Swiss community. At a cost level, Wikimedia CH had to republish the annual report only because there was plural not female in the report. The request was aggressive and not conciliatory. Similarly, some members of the Wikimedia community or of the staff of Wikimedia CH have been referred to be "disliked people" in periodic meetings and they cannot attend.

I am a member of lessanspagEs, Wikimidia Switzerland and Wikimedia France. I personally witnessed that in les sans pagEs everybody has been welcome to join and attend. We had the visit of WMCH employees and other WMCH members during the year. We also welcomed members of the project and paid for travel expenses.

I personnally participated in an GLAM event in Fribourg organised by WMCH and WMDE.

As a professional psychologist and mediator, I believe that it is far better to invest in a mediation to prevent or solve conflicts arrising between individuals.

Astonished I personnally witnessed two members of the project les sans pagEs being adressed in an accusative tone in public by one of the protagonist of the conflict. So I am happy to know that the mediation has been accepted. We need to give time for this mediation to succeed and not fuel resentment by posting comments that could endanger the mediation process.--Aneses (talk) 16:30, 1 December 2017 (UTC)

I'm a les sans pagEs participant but I wanted to react to the comments which were made.
As a Wikimédia France Board member, I want to witness there is a strong interest in collaborating with les Sans PagEs through our newly created Femmes et genres (Women and genders) group. Several participants of les sans pagEs are active members of our chapter. We did not see any conflict, I think our president Pyb will be able to confirm that.
As a French Wikipedia sysop, I participated in the community decision which protected Nattes à chat, who was attacked while trying to protect article from undercontrolled paid editing. There was a strong community support on her side, I heard a mediation was ongoing but this is not related to the les sans pagEs scope.
The project is not entirely consensual, as the gender bias is a hot topic and still controversial on French Wikipedia, but the huge involmement in the project shows a strong community enthusiasm, making les sans pagEs one of the most active projects on frwiki. Actions planned by this grant are important to spread this enthusiasm.
As a simple volunteer, I'm concerned that an employee of WMCH, chapter which is hugely involved in the paid editing conflict, is part of the grant commitee. I see remarks and comments which are not neutral on this topic and this is a problem.
I invite any people interested in the grant to meet some WMFr or WMCH members, frwiki sysops or any people attending les sans pagEs meetings, and I'm sure they'll find plenty of positive remarks on the inclusivity and the warmness of these events. Kvardek du (talk) 13:41, 4 December 2017 (UTC)
I am not a member of Les sans pages, I'm a French Wikipedian and Sysop (ex-member and then staff member of Wikimedia France, but it's not relevant here).
  • I can testify that, on fr-wiki, the statement "The community [of Les sans pages] is often conflictual with other groups" is not true. Several experienced Wikipedians –not me– are involved in the project, and there are no specific problems with the community –even if there are some small conflicts, as for everyone.
  • I'm not a member of Wikimedia Switzerland, but I know there has been a conflict about paid editing in Wikimedia CH. It does not involve "Les sans pages", but one or two of their members, who criticized some paid editing practices and a lack of transparency. All of this led to the block of a Wikimedia CH member for six months by French sysops, for "Threats of prosecution and intimidation" (still about paid editing). So I am very surprised when I read "Wikimedia CH has also paid a mediator to reconcile this group with some members of the Swiss community" as a complaint. A chapter has to allow all members to be in a safe place, and has to help to resolve conflicts.
Best regards, Jules78120 (talk) 14:13, 4 December 2017 (UTC)
As a member of Les sans pages, but also as a contributor on fr.wp (and sysop there), I strongly agree with those three reactions. Les sans Pages is offering to WP a nice and "safe place" for many people, and the multiples actions which have been taking through those years got a wonderfull impact, and many echos into french and canadian press. I have a full confidence in the people in charge (nattes, Exilexi and co), they have already shown their capability and professionalism. Thank you and best regards. --GrandCelinien (talk) 19:29, 6 December 2017 (UTC)

Sustainability, strategy and cooperationEdit

Hi I want to try to adress the question of sustainability and focus on what we try to foster, and to explain the method and the strategy.

Project Model used The agile model that has been by Let's Fill the Gender Gap (now called les sans pagEs) since the beginning is the following:

  1. local group meeting regularly IRL makes its contributions and activities visible on a project page
  2. the content created is promoted through the project page of les sans pagEs (+ active twitter and face book page)
  3. generates press coverage and interest from the general public
  4. new contributors from new locations are encouraged to join and given information (asking for a grant, joining a chapter, getting help on technical issues of contribution)

The result from our past experience: 122 participants to date on the project page 1 933 articles in French 59 articles in other languages (Italian, German, Catalan, Hungarian, Vietnameese, Spanish, Russian). 16 press coverage in 2017 (Switzerland, Canada, France) 10 members joined either the French or Swiss chapter

All this achieved between july 2016 and now (december 2017)

A few success stories to demonstrate the level of ccoperation of the project with others

Example of the path followed after a IRL meeting

  • a contributor joins the Art+Feminism event in Paris 2016
  • after the event she asks for help to learn more
  • she is put in relation with the Wikimooc, who asks her in the process to be a beta tester
  • she epxresses a wish to join les sans pages as an active contributor next autumn

=> next steps:

  • she lives in the swiss german part of Switzerland
  • The group of Sion (Switzerland) is willing to work as a bilingual group in the future: they can be put in relation

Another recent example of collaboration with WikilovesWomen (online)

  • Seing the engagement on the project page, Anthere asked us if we wanted to work on the Women In red contest with a african feminist section.
  • We work on a list to propose for the online contest
  • Les Ateliers femmes and féminismes from Nantes join.
  • Wikimedia Ch offers to pay for the prizes of the contest, and we announce the contest on the discussion page of les sans pagEs.

Gender gap within chapters Wikimedia France

  • In 2016 we organize a filmed conference at the francophone wikiconvention (auto financed) on the subject of inclusive language in French
  • The conference generates interest. Wikimedia France starts to use inclusive languages after talking it over with employees
  • we ask the chapter to form a working group on diversity. The group has been announced in Montpellier during a meeting where two members of the AFF (Nantes) went financed by les sans pagEs (they have for the moment no budget).

Wikimedia Switzerland WMCH has been a partner is establishing the notoriety of les sans pagEs since 2015. There is a mediation process between 4 persons, and a mediation means the parties are willing to find a solution. It is true this conflict makes it sometimes difficult to cooperate with the chapter, nevertheless, we did a few things together this year:

I hope these precise few examples illustrate in a kind of learning pattern what we can achieve by financing local group and adress the question of the group being conflictual with others.

We have achieved sustainability of the wikipedian project page. To reduce the gender gap, and strive towards having a better diversity, we think we have a model that we can replicate to other groups. This project is all about replicating the model to other groups this year for the first time, and for that the help of the Geneva group is needed.

Round 2 2017 decisionEdit


Congratulations! Your proposal has been selected for a Project Grant.

The committee has recommended this proposal and WMF has approved funding for the full amount of your request, 20 200 CHF

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  1. You will be contacted to sign a grant agreement and setup a monthly check-in schedule.
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