Grants talk:Project/Chinmayisk/Community toolkit for Greater Diversity/Archive

A new policy being coming in force from Marathi Wikipedia

Update on this situation: User:Chinmayisk and I filed a joint complaint with the stewards. Here is a copy of the complaint. Chinmayi was unblocked on Marathi Wikipedia by a steward. I am still blocked.I was unblocked today by a Marathi 'crat after some recent developments on the Wiki. -- Rohini (talk) 03:34, 1 November 2017 (UTC)

To avoid non approved outlandish economic proposals from people of inadequete experience and to reduce possibility of mismanagement of public funds, Marathi Wikipedia is coming up with a stricter policy higher bar level and hence before using marathi wikipedia's name and village punp links it is strongly advised that those be positively deleted from this page for better propriety.

Expectations from Marathi Wikipedia policy will be translated in English for better understanding of non-Marathi community will be provided by tommorrow.

After completeng due new procedure you can use Marathi Wikipedia name again. Avoiding any direct or indirect subversive attepmt towards marathi Wikipedia policies will be taken seriously by the Marathi language community.

Thanks for co-operation

Mahitgar (He who knows ,wants to know and and loves to keep others informed) (talk)

@Mahitgar: Firstly, please provide a link to the policy even if it is in Marathi.
Secondly, if the policy you speak of wasn't published/ finalised/ drafted/ in force when we posted this proposal, we are afraid there is no way we could have followed it. There is no mention of this policy on the Marathi language Wikimedia mailing list. Could you also provide a link to the the forum or Wiki page where this policy is being discussed?
Thirdly, I hope you will appreciate that no one can possibly "subvert" a policy that doesn't exist or isn't in force.
Fourthly, if the policy is not in force yet, it would seem reasonable that you leave some room for dialogue and clarifications. Blocking me for one month without notice or warning, and placing restrictions that would prevent me from making any clarifications anywhere on Marathi Wikipedia and from participating in the discussion for the drafting of the policy is, in my opinion, draconian of you as an administrator. Had you informed me that you or other members of the community have apprehensions or concerns about this proposal, I would have constructively engaged with you and struck out my post on the Marathi Wikipedia village pump (which you unilaterally deleted) until all concerns have been addressed.
And finally, with reference to your statement "Avoiding any direct or indirect subversive attepmt towards marathi Wikipedia policies will be taken seriously by the Marathi language community", we would like to know who you consider "Marathi language community" in light of the fact that one of the proposers is a native speaker of Marathi and a long-standing Wikimedian. -- Rohini (talk) 08:02, 8 October 2017 (UTC)

Tanvir is travelling in flight. I will keep him informed about the new policy brought. Policy is not brought into force just because of you but there are other cases also are taken into account. There is no blaming towards any one while bringing in new policy, but it is being brought inforce in express manner. It is just that your prposal was already on board. But still new policy will come in force without any extra leverage, and its better one falls in line without much argument. Please take the new policy in positive spirit.

As far as link it will be given only with translation even right to translate and communicate are being reserved with sysops. Translation will and finetuning will take a day or so. Besides when you are taking Marathi project in concern you need to be able to find link if you are in hurry. But please do note only a constructive approach will be considered. Meanwhile please do remove village pump discussion link with express manner. Untill new conditions get completed no allowance possible about the same. Sorry for inconviniene if any.

Thanks for communicating and bearing with us.

Mahitgar (He who knows ,wants to know and and loves to keep others informed) (talk) 08:18, 8 October 2017 (UTC)

@Mahitgar: I am afraid this response does not answer any of the questions I raised. It is amusing that you speak of "propriety", and at the same time make a reference to "outlandish economic proposals", "mismanagement of public funds", "people of inadequete experience" and "better one falls in line without much argument" without so much as giving us an opportunity to understand what your issue is and to respond to it. You seek constructive engagement and a positive spirit (so do we) but your blocking me unilaterally, without notice, on Marathi Wikipedia prevents all engagement and causes the spirit to become frustrated.-- Rohini (talk) 08:35, 8 October 2017 (UTC)

One needs to follow new guidelines. Policy is policy. Once we see you are fall in line with new policy in positive spirit, Marathi Wikipedia community will be happy to discuss any prospects of your proposal till then sorry. I have said sorry for inconvinience if any already that I need not repeat. Hope you wont waste time any morre on unfruitfull discussions and cooperate.

Mahitgar (He who knows ,wants to know and and loves to keep others informed) (talk) 08:57, 8 October 2017 (UTC)

@Mahitgar: I hope you will appreciate that we never refused to adhere to any policy. We will peruse the new policy and make changes in our proposal, if necessary and suitable. My questions are about your modalities of making us comply to a policy that doesn't yet exist.-- Rohini (talk) 09:06, 8 October 2017 (UTC)

@Mahitgar: Here you go. The "block/ unblock policy" for admins on Marathi Wikipedia states that "for disruption on the Village Pump, the admin should provide at least one warning [Emphasis mine]... blocking is the last resort". Strange that you say "Policy is policy". In my opinion, my post on the Village Pump wasn't even disruptive. You could have expressed your objection to the post and I would have been happy to address it. None of your actions are in good faith, sir. -- Rohini (talk) 09:06, 8 October 2017 (UTC)

For the information of those who have supported/ endorsed this grant proposal and my co-proposer who does not speak Marathi: This proposal is not in violation of any existing policy that was formed with community consensus after following the due process. @Mahitgar: posted this "policy" on Marathi Wikipedia today around the same time as blocking me unilaterally, without notice or warning, and deleting my Village Pump notification about the proposal "Community toolkit for greater diversity" being up for community review. (Blocking, deletion of village pump notification, posting the new policy, all happened within a span of 14 minutes). The timestamp on his "policy" is 12.37 p.m., October 8, 2017 (IST). There is no commentator on the "policy" apart from Mahitgar at the time of my writing this post and the entire page has been protected indefinitely, that is, only Marathi Wikipedia admins can edit it. He writes on the proposal in Marathi that he is "unilaterally using [his] administrative rights to declare the set of rules to be in force for the next two years".-- Rohini (talk) 13:36, 8 October 2017 (UTC)

@Chinmayisk: and the last IP address she used while logged in have been blocked today on Marathi Wikipedia by Mahitgar who is an admin and bureaucrat, as is evident in this log and this one. She does not have a single edit on Marathi Wikipedia, which could only mean that the block is pre-emptive. The reason for blocking her (translated from Marathi): "To prevent interference by non-Marathi in determining the new policy". Ironically, this grant proposal is about diversity and inclusion. The reason Mahitgar wrote in the log for blocking my account on Marathi Wikipedia (translated from Marathi): "For enforcing the new policy for using Marathi Wikipedia's name in financial proposals". The last used IP address from my account (while logged in) has also been blocked. The log is here. -- Rohini (talk) 16:48, 8 October 2017 (UTC)

┌─────────────────────────────────┘
@Rohini and Chinmayisk: Please report any abuse of admin/'crat privileges by contacting a Steward. Thank you. Jim Carter (talk) 05:45, 9 October 2017 (UTC)

Thank you for the suggestion, @Jim Carter:. We are considering our options for redressal. The above posts have been put up to indicate to community members reviewing this proposal and to every one supporting the proposal that Chinmayi and I are in the clear.-- Rohini (talk) 06:18, 9 October 2017 (UTC)

Comment @Mahitgar: please refrain from enforcing *not yet accepted* local policies on meta space. Any Wikimedia policy is made in hope to have a positive impact on Wikimedia, however, policies that restrict proposals which are meant to help Wikimedia in any of the way described in our goal, is actually a policy that is disruptive in itself. Since the proposed policy affects, WMF in regard to their grants, global Wikimedia contributors who are not an active part of the Marathi community, any policy made on local consensus would not be accepted. Please open an RfC, here on meta, concerning the proposal to have such policy. A broader consensus is required to frame a policy when it interferes with Wikimedia's strategy, plans and goals. Best, Jim Carter (talk) 10:11, 8 October 2017 (UTC)

@Mahitgar: Your claim of us breaking a policy by posting on the Marathi Village Pump and your subsequent refusal to share the policy has me baffled. It does not end there; you have blocked my co-proposer without a warning and you have blocked me preemptively on Marathi Wikipedia. These actions are in direct violation of Wikipedia’s policies. I urge you to remove the block on both of us immediately.

I want to draw your attention to the Friendly Space Policy governing this page. Your language here asking my co-proposer to "fall in line without much argument" and “fall in line with new policy” is unacceptable. The sentence “Any direct or indirect subversive attepmt towards marathi Wikipedia policies will be taken seriously” is threatening and uncalled for. Please refrain from using any such language in the future.

We would like to have a constructive dialog around this. From what we understand, this policy has been unilaterally declared. Also, there is no reason why such a policy could be enforceable retroactively.

This proposal is about increasing diversity and inclusivity, and the Marathi community, among others, will benefit from it. This proposal is not "asking for money in the name of Marathi Wikipedia" as you claim. Hence, I urge you to reconsider this opposition. --Chinmayisk (talk) 07:26, 9 October 2017 (UTC)

Marathi Wikipedia will take this under reconsideration

It is widely accepted that Marathi Wikipedia is not the property of an Admin it belongs to the whole Marathi Wikipedia community. This proposal was mentioned on the notice board but not discuss directly erased by an admin, which is totally unfair. Therefore I ask @Mahitgar: to revert his erase and with the help of the Marathi Wikipedia community volunteers with other admins @अभय नातू: and @V.narsikar: (rest inactive) discuss with the proposer of this project and find out appropriate solution. Untill a final note dosent comes out the Marathi Wikipedia team stands neutral in this grant. Hope this helps. _{mahitgar please unlock them for Discussion} --Tiven2240 (talk) 04:26, 11 October 2017 (UTC)

@Tiven2240:,

Thank you for chiming in.

All,

I would like to add, with all due respect, that w:mr community has not authorized anyone to speak exclusively on behalf of w:mr community. Each member of w:mr community is free and empowered to express their own opinion.

IMO and AGF, Mahitgar is speaking as a sysop concerned about w:mr and trying to be a good steward of Foundation's money.

If there's a policy change/addition, I'm sure we'll follow due process. Until then, each of us speaks as her/himself on this topic, not in the name of w:mr.

Regards,

अभय नातू (talk) 16:51, 13 October 2017 (UTC)

admin, 'crat - w:mr