Grants talk:PEG/WM PH/Wiki Loves Monuments 2012

Latest comment: 11 years ago by Wolliff in topic Extension granted

The scholarship to Wikimania


I see a full scholarship to Wikimania 2013 for the event winner as a very nice idea how to attract participants. Support! --Packa (talk) 22:05, 23 February 2012 (UTC)Reply

I am not quite sure - as generally WLM is focused on people not yet involved in Wikimedia movement, and Wikimania is mainly for people who are already deeply involved in the movement or in similar activities :-) And if it is going to be full scholarship it should be higer - I mean 1 k USD is probably not enough for airplane ticket even... The winner might be simply not too much interested in Wikimedia movement and use the scholarship just as kind of free excursion... Polimerek (talk) 22:40, 23 February 2012 (UTC)Reply
I do recognize Polimerek's point that this would be like a free excursion, I myself haven't participated in Wikimania. We see this though as an opportunity for the winner to be immersed in the movement. A first hand experience for someone who may actually be new to the movement would create an impression that we are not exclusive only to the "veterans" or those who may have established a long history in Wikimedia projects, but also to those who could be an epitome of the movement's goals, in this case increasing participation and finding new frontiers for growth. -- Namayan 03:32, 24 February 2012 (UTC)Reply
Polimerek, I think when the winner will be the best from one hundred participants (see Measures of success), she/he will be probably interested in Wikimedia. --Packa (talk) 00:37, 27 February 2012 (UTC)Reply

More detailed budget needed



As for me WLM is obviously worth supporting and the "fit to strategy" and "Measures of success" are quite clearly OK - I would like to see more detailed budget before accepting this grant.

  • Event Launch - what it is going to be? A press conference? Cost of creating the website, cost of printing and sending press-kit?
  • Promotions and Exhibits - are you planing to organise several meetings, press conferences all over the country? How many of them? Is the proposed amount of money enough for the goal of making aware of the contest all over the country?
  • Prizes and Trophies - how many, what kind of? If it is going to be one or more scholarships to Wikimania - I guess there is not enough money ₱42,000 is less than 1000 USD - probably even not enough for single airplane ticket if the Wikimania will be in Europe or South America...

Polimerek (talk) 22:40, 23 February 2012 (UTC)Reply

Hi Polimerek, I have broken down the budget in detail to give a glimpse on how it is intended to be utilized.

  • Event Launch - what it is going to be? A press conference? Cost of creating the website, cost of printing and sending press-kit?
The organizing team as well as some members who have better knowledge of website development will be responsible in creating the website, hence there's no amount allocated for that. The event launch will be a mini-press conference, we intend to distribute a limited number of souvenir/press kits, plus have some free snacks until supplies last to those who would be coming to the event launch. It is planned to be an open for everyone.
  • Promotions and Exhibits - are you planing to organise several meetings, press conferences all over the country? How many of them? Is the proposed amount of money enough for the goal of making aware of the contest all over the country?
We would be printing a few hundred posters that we will distribute in the event launch, plus mail them to photography clubs. Apart from this we will be employing a lot of social media networking promotion after all Filipinos are a social media networking crazy people. Thanks for highlighting the need to re-check the amount, I had to revise the figures after realizing it may not really be enough after all.
  • Prizes and Trophies - how many, what kind of? If it is going to be one or more scholarships to Wikimania - I guess there is not enough money ₱42,000 is less than 1000 USD - probably even not enough for single airplane ticket if the Wikimania will be in Europe or South America...
We do not seek to have in our possession the amount needed for a full Wikimedia scholarship, but more like to have a guaranteed slot or a "reserved amount" already allocated for the winner of the contest, so it's not in the total amount we are requesting. -- Namayan 04:14, 24 February 2012 (UTC)Reply
If you want to offer a Wikimania scholarship as a prize for WLM, you need to factor it into the sum you request. This will cost real money, after all, and that money should not be invisible when we look at grant sizes and do accounting. Please update the request accordingly. Asaf Bartov (WMF Grants) talk 02:40, 25 February 2012 (UTC)Reply
Will do so then. I really don't know how much should be allocated for a Wikimania scholarship, I just pegged it at $1,800, should any of the European bids secure the right to host it. -- Namayan 02:53, 25 February 2012 (UTC)Reply

Thanks for the submission. My thoughts and questions are mainly focused on the budget as well. Could you give us more details about the project planning costs? What are the all services that the courier will provide during the events? For whom do you plan to pay the transportation and is it enough the amount of ₱3,000 (~ $72)? The idea to award a scholarship for Wikimania 2013 is completely strange to me. Definitely it's a very big encouragement for everybody to be prolific on the Wikimedia-related initiatives, but it can originate some problems inside the Wikimedia movement and our grants model. If the Wikimedia Foundation approves a grant application with money to be awarded for a scholarship for Wikimania, it will encourage other parties to request the same funds and will simply downgrade the value of the scholarships offered by the organizers. Wikimeda Foundation approves a large grant for Wikimania every year that includes money for the scholarships, so it is out of control to allow the same funds in different way. I also agree on as per above that the amount depends on the place where Wikimania will be held and that its randomness only puts weight on the application. Best regards.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 23:12, 26 February 2012 (UTC)Reply

A scholarship to Wikimania 2012 was the prize for the winner of Wiki Loves Monuments 2011 in Europe. I don't know yet how it will work out, but think it's great for chapters to be able to offer scholarships in addition to the main WMF scholarship pool, in this way or other way they see fit. This year, it's mainly chapters that have participated directly in the annual fundraiser that are doing scholarships, and it's unfortunate that chapters like Wikimedia Philippines cannot. Cheers. Aude (talk) 00:26, 27 February 2012 (UTC)Reply
And the cost for a scholarship from Philippines to DC is $2,200 USD, although who knows where it'll be next year. It includes flight, hostel (7 days, if they choose to attend hackathon), and registration. Aude (talk) 00:33, 27 February 2012 (UTC)Reply
I really wish we could participate in the fundraisers soon, but that's a different story, though we've begun the daunting work to meet regulatory requirements to be able to do so. To answer your questions:
Courier: We need to avail of rush courier services (regular postal service takes a week) to send invitations to government agencies that we intend to partner with as stated in the Grant, plus we've also sourced out potential corporate sponsors who can add to the prize pool (i.e. photography magazine subscriptions, et al.).
Transportation: This amount is intended for the organizing team, when we meet-up to plan and source the materials and equipment that we would use during the event.
Wikimania Scholarship: Our idea is not really to have in our possession the money needed for a Wikimania scholarship (it's better left in WMF's hands, the chapter does not keep an interest bearing account), more like having a secured slot that the host will automatically provide to the event winner. If any of the two bidding Asian cities (Hong Kong, Surakarta) secure the right to host Wikimania, then what we've asked is really too much, but if it will be in Europe then I could subscribe to the figure that DC has allocated for participants from the Philippines. We do not intend to downgrade the value of scholarships in this case, an event that has a potential for a nationwide participation "could" create some buzz, what Wikimania is and the movement in general. Let it be clear that the Wikimania scholarship would not be convertible to cash if the Winner would not want to participate in Wikimania.-- Namayan 02:52, 27 February 2012 (UTC)Reply
Thanks for the detailed response. Now I can see the need for the amounts, and with the changes you've made on the other items it seems more balanced to me.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 22:14, 27 February 2012 (UTC)Reply

No Sponsors?


So, WLM is in the 3rd year. Last year the main focus was that we needed to do as much as we can with sponsors (in fact WMPT - the 5th country in numbers of pictures submited - did EVERYTHING with sponsors, without spend one single cent of the Chapter's money). So it puzzles me that you requesting the money for every single detail of the contest. Are you not seeking for Sponsors? Béria Lima msg 15:16, 28 February 2012 (UTC)Reply

The concept is unknown to the Philippines even to most of our members, until it was formally presented to them last January. YES, WE ARE ASKING FOR EVERY SINGLE CENT because the situation is different in Europe compared to the Philippines. Not that we are not working very hard to get sponsors, but companies here do not buy ideas or bank on a product that was a huge success overseas because the local market has a totally different palate. As explained above, we are seeking sponsors just to augment the prizes we are giving away, but hopefully it will be a different story next year. Needless to say we are not on a bargaining position yet because we have not proven that we are capable of executing an event like this or this is a bankable event that they would want to see their money poured into and their company names associated with. Strategically speaking, we have to make an investment this year and work hard to beat the local record of around 4,000 for the most number of entries in a photo competition and if this comes to a fulfillment, we'll make sure the press knows about it, so that when we hold the contest next year we have a proven track record that we have a bankable event that will be worth their money. -- Namayan 16:04, 28 February 2012 (UTC)Reply
Calm down Namayan, I'm not trying to insult you or telling you how should you run your own chapter. I just made a question and if you allow me I have a few follow ups.
The concept of Sponsor isn't know in PH? Or is WLM that isn't know? I got a bit confused about that.
No one will open their mouths here (at least I hope they won't) to tell you that you should act like an European chapter. We know - and I more than anyone else because I have 3 chapter affiliations - that each chapter is different and each one acts in a different basis. That is why I asked about the sponsors. Could be something not heard of in Philippines. And that points again to my first question: what the concept that isn't know in PH? Because all my other follow ups depends on this answer :D Béria Lima msg 17:11, 28 February 2012 (UTC)Reply
Béria, the concept of Wiki Loves Monuments is foreign to the Philippines, hence why the chapter is foreseeing the possibility of having few sponsors who, in one way or another depending on how the idea is pitched, decide to sponsor the contest. A typical photo competition in the Philippines runs very differently from the Wiki Loves Monuments model: it's usually not for free culture purposes; it's usually not online or, if it is online, entries are uploaded via Facebook; and we deal with very specific cultural idiosyncrasies in the Philippines such as how to convince potential sponsors of their so-called "returns on investment". This in fact does not go only for WLM, but for all our projects: as it is, we have to think about how can we convince people that they can "profit" off of sponsoring Wikimedia Philippines projects if we're very aware that money will not go to their bottom line, and we risk derailing a project because we don't have enough money for it. I hope this makes it clearer. --Sky Harbor (talk) 19:02, 28 February 2012 (UTC)Reply
Béria, I'm cool, don't get me wrong. I'm just acknowledging it the way you've emphasized your point, cheers! Just like what Sky Harbor explained, the general concepts revolving around of Wiki Loves Monuments is almost foreign to the general Filipino public, if this is close to texting, then it's easier to sell that idea.-- Namayan 02:37, 29 February 2012 (UTC)Reply

Seeking sponsors in the Philippines is like walking over water, you have to prove that we can execute this project successfully and have a track record. We are not asking for monetary sponsorship from companies here in the Philippines because we want to make sure that we exceed our internal targets.

To be honest, I hate the idea of asking for grants from the foundation because I feel like we are stray dogs asking for food.

In my experience, I have worked for a multinational investment firm for a long time and I am currently working for a renewable energy company managing their financial and operational risks. I myself control company resources and make sure that I do this with outmost prudence and Integrity. I am personally donating my time, talent and energy to this foundation because I believe in what it can do to preserve our culture and promote pride for our country.

Please, I am asking you a favor to be emotionally sensitive when asking questions about the project. Members of WMPH are all dedicated volunteers donating time, energy and at extreme conditions, their own money. The project members involved are doing the planning, and the groundwork (up to the point that we carry heavy objects in flights of stairs, install wiring, etc)

Conditions on your side of the planet are far better than what we have here. You can raise funds on your own and we can't. We will not be asking for grants in the first place if we can do this on our own. We look up to chaters like you and hope that one day, we can be like you. My personal dream for the chapter is to increase its active members, get the "not for profit certification" from the tax bureau to be independent and raise funds to finance projects like this, get a physical office (we don't even have one, what we have a virtual office and we don't have much storage space), but for now, we have to ask for your help. Rest assured that funds granted to our project will be put to good use. We have scrutinized this grant proposal before posting it here and people involved have an excellent track record in managing project funds.

Again, I apologize if I sound to melodramatic but I just want to express how I feel about asking for grants

Sunkissedguy (talk) 16:28, 29 February 2012 (UTC)Reply

You really should not feel that way. The Wikimedia Foundation is making grants available not as a favor to chapters! On the contrary, chapters seeking grants to fund worthwhile and mission-aligned activity are helping the Foundation work toward our Vision. We are happy to be able to fund chapters' activity wherever and whenever necessary, and there is no magical point at which chapters lose eligibility for funding via the grants program.
I am sorry if Béria's communication style made it seem otherwise (and she surely is, too), but I can speak for the Foundation in asserting that there is no expectation from WMPH to "walk on water" and necessarily reach the same funding arrangements as some other chapters have. WMPH and you should focus on planning WLM and doing the best job you can without adding difficulty in raising funds at this point. Asaf Bartov (WMF Grants) talk 02:07, 1 March 2012 (UTC)Reply

Hi asaf and beria, i'm very sorry if I overreacted. I think i took it the wrong way. Sunkissedguy (talk) 06:59, 1 March 2012 (UTC)Reply

Technical details


Could you provide more information about who will constitute the jury for the event and how it correlates with the active with the WM PH and the local community? I also noticed that you have separate amounts for the first prize and the scholarship for the winner. Does it mean that you plan to deliver a similar award for the first place as for the other placed contestants + scholarship for Wikimania 2013? Best.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 20:43, 28 February 2012 (UTC)Reply

I can answer the prize part, but I'll leave the jury selection to the people concerned. The first prize for the Philippine contest will be P15,000 plus a Wikimania 2013 scholarship, but they are budgeted separately as to properly account for the prizes (and to prevent overspending on prizes). The only similarity between the prizes is that they are cash prizes which increase the closer you are to first prize, and there will only be one Wikimania 2013 scholarship awarded. --Sky Harbor (talk) 21:43, 28 February 2012 (UTC)Reply
Doing them separately is surely the right way, but for me it's too much to award the highest cash prize plus scholarship for Wikimania for the winner and lower cash prizes for the others awarded, especially if Wikimania will be held in any of the European cities bidding for it. On the other hand, you have to be prudent in case it will be in Surakarta or Hong Kong that can cost even lower than the cash prize. In my opinion, definitely it's better to have the cash prizes in scaling order without promoting the scholarship too much.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 22:21, 28 February 2012 (UTC)Reply
Jury selection: As to the actual people who'll compose it, we don't have the names yet. But the judging will be in two phases, for the Eliminations we are allocating some slots for WMPH members, some non-member WP editors who are regular photo contributors in Commons, plus photography professionals. The Jury composition for the Final Round will follow the composition of the European contest.
Cash prize + Wikimania scholarship: As I've indicated, if the First prize winner would not be interested to participate in Wikimania then that prize is forfeited, that's why we've deemed it necessary to separate it from the cash prize. No other prizes will be given to the runners-up other than cash prizes stipulated and if ever there'd be possible prizes sponsors might be willing to add too, let it be almost like a winner takes all contest.-- Namayan 02:24, 29 February 2012 (UTC)Reply
Thanks. I will take it into account.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 12:30, 29 February 2012 (UTC)Reply

Suggestion about metrics


I would ask you to put in evidence the number of "new" users subscribed in Commons. This number may have a big value in comparison with the strategic plan of WMF to increase the number of the members in the community. In the metric is not evident if the number of participants will be 100 or this would be the number of the new users (too optimistic in my point of view). --Ilario (talk) 21:16, 29 February 2012 (UTC)Reply

Good point, I was looking at 100 new users. It maybe too optimistic but we would like to set the bar high, and we'll work to achieve this.-- Namayan 23:48, 29 February 2012 (UTC)Reply

Website and the current situation


I would put the accent in one point that Polimerek has already asked in another section. The activity of Wiki Loves Monuments 2012 is already on going. I would know how many points have already done regarding this timeline:

Mainly about the list of monuments or about the website, which is really important in case of the advertising and to find partners.

May you update us about the current state of the orgganization of WLM 2012 in Philippines? In the light of what is present in this timeline, have you considered in the budget any costs or you think that something may be missed? --Ilario (talk) 21:28, 29 February 2012 (UTC)Reply

I'll answer the best I can here, and I hope the organizers in the Philippines can help me fill in any remaining blanks. So far, we have already acquired a domain for the local site (which currently redirects to Commons, but it should ultimately end up pointing to the WMPH website's pages on Wiki Loves Monuments), we're rolling out promotions for the project (including setting up a Facebook page), and preparations are underway for the project's launch on March 24. If I'm not mistaken, we also already have a copy of the Philippine Registry of Cultural Property (PRECUP), which is our national register of historical monuments (plus plus, that is), and the chapter is beginning to get the appropriate paperwork done with the concerned government agencies. Because we're accounting for the weather, the chapter has decided to significantly accelerate our timeline for the local contest, all the while adhering to the global timeline: for example, we will encourage people to start taking pictures in April and May, while it's summer, while not accepting any uploads until September. The WLM local team has been working very, very hard to ensure that the project is successful in the Philippines, and so far they're doing a pretty good job at it: to note, there will be a project meeting in Manila this Saturday. --Sky Harbor (talk) 21:49, 29 February 2012 (UTC)Reply
I've realized that this is a tight budget with all the work we've done so far, I'll adjust a few. Anyway, here's the current status of the work he have done:
  • Planning began on the last week of January and for 5 weeks now we've been meeting every weekend to obtain the materials we would use. We've gone all over Manila to get the best bargains to source it out.
  • Launch is slated on March 24, venue has been secured and initial down payment has been made. There'll be a small exhibit of the 2012 WLM winners at the venue too. We've decided to purchase some portable lighting equipment and display equipment for that exhibit, as it was more economical than renting them out, we'll do the electrical installations ourselves, we'll worry about their warehousing later.
  • Poster design is finish, we'll just make minor changes, especially when it was brought to our attention that the mechanics we've used has caused some concern. Once finalized it's ready for printing, that manufacturer has also been secured and committed to us that we'll have it by March 17 as long as we give them a week to make it.
  • Manufacturer of backdrop has committed 10 days to ready it, offered us a great discount, plus have the backdrop printed in China to have a seamless backdrop, otherwise it will be a stitched one.
  • Domain has been acquired [], which is already up, but will still be developed to have a link that will direct to Commons once the uploading period begins.
  • The National Commission on Culture and the Arts has deliberated and endorsed the project during the meeting of the agency's board of directors last Feb. 24, I'm just waiting for the official letter from them.
  • Department of Tourism will be sending the Exec. Director of the National Parks Development Committee to grace our event launch on March 24.
  • Letters to corporate sponsors have been sent 3 weeks ago, we're still following up on them.
  • We have already secured the manufacturer of our press kits and souvenir items that we would be distributing on the event launch. -- Namayan 00:17, 1 March 2012 (UTC)Reply
Well - I think this is absolutely OK - I mean - maybe except Wikimania scholarship - I fully support this grant proposal. Polimerek (talk) 15:36, 4 March 2012 (UTC)Reply
Dziękuję za wsparcie, Polimerek. But in defense of a Wikimania scholarship as a grand prize, the organization does believe that we need a motivator significant enough to actually generate interest in the competition, and to get people participating. It's a Filipino cultural idiosyncrasy: competitions work the best when there are larger prizes involved, and we're hoping that Wiki Loves Monuments in the Philippines will be successful. However, we will accept whatever outcome that will come from the GAC. --Sky Harbor (talk) 18:05, 4 March 2012 (UTC)Reply
I'm really batting for a scholarship to give momentum to our staging of our event. And in presenting it among the prizes, people would be eager to know what Wikimania is, and we could give a glimpse to the Wikimedia movement in general. -- Namayan 01:59, 5 March 2012 (UTC)Reply

Extension granted


WMPH has requested an extension with respect only to distributing the prizes for this contest, and WMF has granted an extension for these activities until 15 September 2013. WMPH will still produce a grant report and documentation of all other expenses by the expected deadline of no later than 3 months after the original completion date of 30 November 2012, and WMF will provisionally review this report at the time it is submitted. A final report containing information on the distribution of prizes for this contest will be due by the end of September 2013, and WMF will review the finalized report at that time. Wolliff (talk) 16:50, 27 November 2012 (UTC)Reply

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