Grants talk:PEG/WM CL/Ibero-American Wikimedia Summit 2012

Funding sources

Thanks for the submission. In general, I agree with the approval of this request, but is this the only funding source for the Summit or you also use another funds that are not mentioned in the application? Best regards.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 09:30, 17 March 2012 (UTC)

It will fund all major expenses. Smaller expenses, like local transportation and documentation, will be covered by Wikimedia Chile budget. --B1mbo (talk) 20:57, 18 March 2012 (UTC)

Non-financial requirements

Don't you need some swag from the Foundation for the event? Abbasjnr (talk) 03:26, 22 March 2012 (UTC)

If you mean promotional items, I'm not sure we need. Most of the people coming know what Wikimedia means so I think it would be really helpful in this case. --B1mbo (talk) 02:26, 23 March 2012 (UTC)

GAC members who have read this request but had no comments

• Seems to me absolutely OK. Polimerek (talk) 18:41, 15 March 2012 (UTC)
• I read the request. I think it's OK, too.--Marctaltor (talk) 00:14, 18 March 2012 (UTC)
• Completely OK to me as well. Béria Lima ^msg 21:42, 20 March 2012 (UTC)

Some doubts

I have reviewed the request and the activity program and it has emerged a serious doubt on the concept of it and three issues requering clarification.

Regarding the question about the concept. Comparing the agenda of this meeting with the chapters meeting in Berlin made one month before only the session on indigenous languages is new. I think you should explain very well that this meeting will contribute beyond what is already being done in Chapters Meeting.

The questiones are:

1)The application requests funding for travel of 23 people but the list of participants are only 18.

2)You ask $ 440 for trips of 2 participants from Wikimedia Argentina but the Wikimedia Argentina annual plan already finaced with $ 2,100 travel and subsistence of those 2 people to attend Iberoconf. Do we have to understand that Wikimedia Argentina will provide the $ 2,100 received and therefore must be subtracted from the $ 25,286 from the current request?

3) I do not understand exactly how much are you asking. The reperesentatives from Spain and Portugal are traveling from Europe or from Buenos Aires? Why is not the same case with a representative of Italy?--Josepnogue (talk) 11:59, 29 March 2012 (UTC)

Answering the concept: Chapters meeting don't deal with IberoAmerica, neither have their conferences in Spanish / Portuguese / Italian. This year Chapters meeting will be full of discussions about BoT (which will not happens at Iberoconf because the conference is AFTER the election) and the Chapters Council (Which we might discuss but isn't the biggest topic of the meeting.)

Answering 1: As you can see the participants from Chile are not in the list yet (Chile is a big country) + they are flying people from country without groups to benefit from the meeting.

Answering 2: Ask Wikimedia Argentina, but as far as I know, they are helping organize, so the fights there migth be for the organizers.

Answering 3: Maria and I will be in Buenos Aires for WikiWomenCamp one week before the event. I can talk for myself when I say I will come back and the flight will come and go from Recife (Where I am right now). Italians representatives will not do the same because both Cristian and Aubrey are not attending WikiWomenCamp. Béria Lima ^msg 15:22, 29 March 2012 (UTC)

Local conferences are totally different than a world-wide event like Wikimedia Conference. Iberoconf is a focused event for chapters speaking mainly Spanish, Portuguese and Italian, given the cultural, economic and social similarities. We can discuss on a global level how to design educational projects, but it is different how to implement them given the characteristics of Latin America and Southern Europe. Also, most of the people don't have a good level of English and can't participate the way they wish on a global event. That's why we believe it is important to use their native language so everyone can express the way they wish, and that is only possible on a regional level like Iberoconf does. And, finally, only half of the participants at Iberoconf is present now at Wikimedia Conference.

About your questions:

1. Wikimedia Chile and Wikimedia Argentina haven't chosen their representative yet. I don't see any problem while we don't have this grant approved, the event confirmed and the tickets bought.
2. I don't follow usually Wikimedia Argentina's grants. I've talked with them and they told me about this so their participation is already covered. Thanks for the remainder.
3. Two representatives may be in South America at the time of the conference because of their potential participation at WikiWomenCamp. But this is not sure yet, so we have requested the full amount. Before the tickets are bough, we will confirm their situation and we'll return the exceding amount if they fly from Buenos Aires instead of their hometowns. Italy's representative will be in Italy at the time of the conference. --B1mbo (talk) 17:35, 29 March 2012 (UTC)

Additional questions

Thank you for the discussion so far. A few remaining questions and issues from our perspective:

1. Your second measure of success is "Declaration of Ibero-American working about the status of the Wikimedia Movement, especially in developing countries (the so-called Global South)." -- could you explain what is meant, and how it is a measure of success?
2. In fit to strategy, you write "Increasing reach: this summit will foster the presence of the Wikimedia movement on a local level in Latin America and Southern Europe." -- how does this summit meeting increase reach? It's not immediately clear to me, and just stating that it will increase reach is not useful -- can you describe why you think it might increase reach? See the relevant page in the strategy plan for a clearer idea of what is meant by "reach".
3. Also in fit to strategy, how does "having a common regional framework adds to Wikimedia's presence in Ibero-America in the way of a concerted body" contribute to "credibility"? Credibility in the eyes of whom? Is there any instance where being from Wikimedia YourCountry was rejected and there's reason to believe being from "Iberocoop" would have been more effective?
4. more generally, I don't see the goals reflected in the measures of success. How would we know whether we achieved our goals then? Likewise, things not listed in the goals but that are listed under fit to strategy (e.g. financial sustainability, which the 'fit to strategy' section suggests would be discussed) don't have measures of success associated with it.
5. (Finally, a request: I'm not happy with the euphemism "Global South" either, but can you be a Wikipedian and suggest a better alternative rather than just reject it?)

Thanks for taking a little more time to address these concerns. Asaf Bartov (WMF Grants) talk 15:56, 30 March 2012 (UTC)

Sorry for the delay. Here are my answers:

1. It is intended to produce a declaration about how the participant groups see the future of our movement, how we can help and how it can develop especially in our countries. We believe it is important that the volunteers involved in the Wikimedia Movement have a voice and an understanding of how we see the future, and how we can improve it, especially from a local perspective. A joint declaration that we can share with the Board of the Foundation, the staff and the rest of the movement can be really helpful for our movement’s strategy in the region.
2. Currently, the presence of our movement is still focused in some specific countries (those with chapters or really active groups) while other groups are still working for the spread of our projects. We expect to use the event as an opportunity to share experiences in how we have dealt with the same problems in the past; sharing the Argentinean projects are more helpful to Bolivia, to name a country, than learning about projects realized on Europe. In past Iberoconf, we did that with important results: some groups became official chapters and new groups emerged and started working on their countries. Just as an example, Wikimedia Bolivia organized the contest Arandu, the first time a event related to Wikimedia happened in that country, reaching people in a developing country that probably never knew before how to participate in Wikipedia. Now, we are also including new countries (Panama and Peru) where they are no organized group and no project for the promotion of the Wikimedia Movement yet but a lot of users willing to do it, and we expect similar outcomes in the future.
3. Working as a regional movement instead of isolated groups bring us more credibility and weight, especially with governmental institutions and international organizations. An example was the work with Fundación Telefónica, where we worked as a regional movement for a project realized in Latin America as a whole. Certainly, Argentina, Spain or Chile wouldn’t been able to do it as a local chapter. The same applies to international organizations like UNESCO where we can work more effectively than on a small level. Working as an international cooperation gives more credibility to our actions and make them more attractive to other entities.
4. Most of those goals are long-term objectives that can’t be measured easily and in the scope of this particular project. Topics like “Financial sustainability”, one of those that will be discussed, are things that takes a lot of time and compromise by the different participant groups; this conference is only the seed for these issues.
5. As you know, we had a presentation about the results of Iberocoop in the past Wikimania. There, we talk about the “Global South” concept, why we think it is patronizing and even insulting and how other international entities have agreed to use the term “developing countries” and why is a much better option, even thought it is not perfect because the concept is in fact problematic. That term was used in the final report of the first Ibero-American Wikimedia Summit and has been used in other reports of our group. --B1mbo (talk) 06:44, 8 April 2012 (UTC)

Extension

Hi!

I would like to request an extension of this grant, to include local transportation of the participants of the meeting. After the approval of this grant, we had to move our venue to a different place, which is farther than the original location. We are asking to pay subway tickets for the participants, invitees and the staff of the event (34 people), for 9 trips at an average price of CLP 630, with an aprox. total of CLP 200.000 (400 USD). Also, we would like to include the flight ticket of Daniel Bravo, chosen as local representative in the event, because of his experience in other meetings as the Finance Meeting and the last Wikimedia Conference. The trip from La Serena costs CLP 35,000 (70 USD).

In total, the extension will be less than 470 USD and will be covered by the savings after buying the travel tickets for all participants, which are around USD 2,000. --B1mbo (talk) 22:57, 20 May 2012 (UTC)

This is approved. Asaf Bartov (WMF Grants) talk 17:21, 21 May 2012 (UTC)