Wikimedia New Zealand/IRC Log 7 May 2006 (Chapter Issues)

See http://nz.wikimedia.org for updates.

This is a log from #wikimedia-chapters regarding issues with setting up a New Zealand Chapter, thanks to Austin who answered our questions. (Nigel and Brian were present).

Fees & Reimbursements

May 07 14:15:19 Nigel	Austin, are you around?
May 07 14:27:33 Austin	Sure.
May 07 14:27:34 Austin	What's up?
May 07 14:28:10 Nigel	Austin, want to answer a few questions
May 07 14:28:25 Nigel	I notice your on the Chapters Committee, which is a good start ;)
May 07 14:28:37 Austin	My cover is blown!
May 07 14:28:44 Nigel	Austin, haha
May 07 14:29:11 Nigel	1) does [[m:License_example]] apply to chapters
May 07 14:29:34 Nigel	or is there a more free version for chapters
May 07 14:30:52 Austin	Chapters have a different agreement for the use of trademarks, logos, and other Wikimedia property.
May 07 14:30:59 Austin	That agreement is still being drafted, however.  :)
May 07 14:31:12 Nigel	ahhh right, so the 2k/mnth doesn't apply to chapters
May 07 14:31:29 Nigel	thats a start ;)
May 07 14:31:54 Nigel	now, as for the content listed on [[m:Chapter co-ordinator]]
May 07 14:32:06 Nigel	(the last section)
May 07 14:32:12 Nigel	does that include costs for:
May 07 14:32:24 Nigel	a) Incorporation as a society
May 07 14:32:45 Nigel	b) *Reimbursement* for a domain name
May 07 14:33:01 Nigel	as we all know, domain names can get snapped up quickly
May 07 14:34:41 Austin	That page is a bit outdates, but most of it still applies.  Certainly for (b), and most likely for (a).
May 07 14:34:46 Austin	s/tes/ted/
May 07 14:35:05 Nigel	what doesn't apply
May 07 14:35:08 Austin	The Foundation would actually rather own the domain outright, so it would likely be a case of purchasing it from you altogether.
May 07 14:35:31 Nigel	that for wikipedia or wikimedia domain?
May 07 14:35:40 Austin	Both.
May 07 14:35:42 Nigel	or both now
May 07 14:35:48 BrianNewZealand	wikimedia.org.nz is the one we are looking at
May 07 14:35:50 Austin	The position of Chapter Coordinator still exists, but her duties have been largely taken over by this committee.
May 07 14:36:00 Nigel	yeah i realized that
May 07 14:36:12 Austin	As a happy coincidence, the Chapter Coordinator is currently this committee's chairman.  :)
May 07 14:36:19 Austin	So it doesn't cause problems much.
May 07 14:36:19 Nigel	yeah, so i read ;)

Legal & Requirements

May 07 14:37:19 Nigel	ohhh now, here it's 15 members min for incorporation as a non-profit, so is it possible for Wikimedia NZ to be recongized with only 15 members, or is 20 set in stone
May 07 14:37:52 Austin	Where do you see 20?
May 07 14:38:04 Nigel	it was on the FAQ or something
May 07 14:38:57 Austin	I don't think it's set in stone, but with fewer than 20 members you should ask yourself if founding a chapter is worthwhile.
May 07 14:39:18 Austin	Because we'll be asking ourselves if taking on a chapter with fewer than 20 members is worthwhile.  ;)
May 07 14:39:20 Nigel	ahhh right
May 07 14:39:32 Nigel	so that solves that
May 07 14:40:37 Nigel	also on the Chapter Coordinator page is a mention of legal fees etc, does that include the fees for a lawyer to look over the constitution and if need be touch it up for NZ legal standards
May 07 14:41:35 Austin	I don't see how you could incorporate without it, so lump it in with those costs.
May 07 14:42:17 Nigel	so it's part of the foundations 'grant' shall we put it?
May 07 14:42:31 Austin	We're playing catch-up with our duties, so there are some things which (obviously) still need to be examined.
May 07 14:42:35 Austin	Yes.
May 07 14:43:22 Nigel	now what about things like hosting etc for the chapter, is the chapter responsible for working that out, or can it be purchased from wikimedia or something like that (i noticed that the polish lot use pl.wikimedia.org)
May 07 14:43:43 BrianNewZealand	Austin:Btw This is about a possable chapter for New Zealand
May 07 14:44:06 Nigel	BrianNewZealand, i think he gathered that ;) but yeah
May 07 14:44:41 Austin	Some chapters opt to provide their own hosting (usually at no cost to them); others are hosted by Wikimedia, and I'm fairly certain they don't pay for that privilege.
May 07 14:45:15 Nigel	BrianNewZealand, have i missed anything?
May 07 14:45:23 Austin	All of the current chapters incorporated prior to the establishment of any real guidelines, so don't take their circumstance as any sort of official policy.
May 07 14:45:36 Austin	And yeah, I gathered, but thanks.  :)
May 07 14:46:07 Nigel	how long before real guidelines?
May 07 14:46:10 Nigel	can we sneak in ;)
May 07 14:46:32 Austin	Right now our top priority is a formal trademark agreement between the Foundation and its chapters.
May 07 14:46:47 Austin	We actually have one chapter held up until that happens.

Logos

May 07 14:46:49 Nigel	oh thats another thing
May 07 14:47:10 Nigel	with the logo, to what extent would a chapter be able to modify it?
May 07 14:47:18 Austin	Once we have that agreement, I'm sure our next priority will be to review guidelines and policies.
May 07 14:47:56 Austin	Not much.  :)
May 07 14:48:08 Nigel	darnit, i was hoping to make it 'kiwi'
May 07 14:48:13 Austin	You get a logo consistent with that of the other chapters.
May 07 14:48:25 Nigel	change the red dot at the top, to black, and make it into a 2D kiwi
May 07 14:48:31 Austin	Sorry, although I see how that would be neat.  :)
May 07 14:48:57 Nigel	and the 'wings' into some sorta Maori carving
May 07 14:49:17 Nigel	oh well, was worth a try
May 07 14:49:27 Austin	I'm afraid you'll have to be boring.
May 07 14:49:41 Austin	Although I'm sure you can use kiwis and tribal carvings in your other artwork.
May 07 14:49:53 Austin	Banners and things.
May 07 14:50:26 Nigel	wait a second then, where would the wikimedia logo have to be used
May 07 14:50:35 Nigel	could the NZ Chapter have a totally different logo
May 07 14:50:59 Nigel	aka, not based on the Wikimedia logo, or is that one of the rules
May 07 14:52:06 Austin	That's actually a good thing to bring up.
May 07 14:52:23 Nigel	like are we forced to use the Wikimedia logo
May 07 14:52:38 Nigel	thats better
May 07 14:53:30 Austin	If you use the Wikimedia logo, or any derivative, it has to be within our guidelines.  Nobody's ever actually proposed using something else, and currently the draft guidelines don't say anything about requiring chapters to use the WMF logo.
May 07 14:53:48 Austin	Don't get your hopes up, though; I'm pretty sure we'll require that now that someone's mentioned it.  :)
May 07 14:55:41 Nigel	because i'm just thinking along the lines of:  the local chapter is designed to focus it's efforts on local issues/subjects etc, so surely a local chapter should have the right to create a logo that reflects that
May 07 14:55:43 Austin	In everything else, though, I know I appreciate all the local flair chapters can provide.
May 07 14:56:08 Austin	Yes, but we also want recognizable trademarks.
May 07 14:56:23 Nigel	good point
May 07 14:56:29 Austin	Among other things, chapters establish a trademark's use in their own little part of the world.
May 07 14:57:31 Nigel	what if say the local logo, was always used in conjunction with the WMF logo (i'm just wondering to be honest)
May 07 14:58:59 Nigel	but right, unless BrianNewZealand doesn't have anything else, thanks for answering the questions
May 07 14:59:20 Nigel	i take it you don't mind if we put part/all of this onto meta for other kiwi's to review?
May 07 14:59:46 Austin	The Foundation has a separate committee for trademark identity, and they'd probably protest if you made extensive use of other non-identifiable logos.
May 07 15:00:03 Austin	I remember seeing a few turned down recently for that reason.
May 07 15:00:04 Nigel	rightyo then
May 07 15:00:28 Nigel	but tacking "New Zealand" under it would be acceptable
May 07 15:01:38 Austin	In line with the most recent version of the http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Wikimedia_visual_identity_guidelines
May 07 15:02:03 Austin	Which is so specific that there's no room at all for variation.
May 07 15:02:20 Austin	(They're actually visual identity specifications.)
May 07 15:03:43 Austin	Oh, and yes, you can quote me on any of this.
May 07 15:05:14 Austin	I should also point out that the localized logo isn only for things like the chapter's Web site, to disambiguate.
May 07 15:05:28 Austin	Officially, you use the Wikimedia logo, plain and simple.
May 07 15:06:03 Nigel	so the wikimedia logo, everywhere
May 07 15:08:30 Austin	Anywhere identifying, but not *everywhere*.
May 07 15:08:40 Austin	When you guys hold a get-together, you can make up banners with kiwis and things.
May 07 15:09:52 Austin	You just can't use a kiwi to identify Wikimedia New Zealand.

Notes

Just remember that some of the things here, are subject to change.