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Requests for new languages/Wikipedia Vlax Romany

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Vlax Romany Wikipedia

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submitted verification final decision
  This proposal has been approved.
The Board of Trustees and language committee have deemed that there is sufficient grounds and community to create the new language project.

The closing committee member provided the following comment:

The requested project was created at rmy: at an indeterminate date. Note that this request was approved before the implementation of the standardised Language proposal policy, and should not be used as a model for future requests. —{admin} Pathoschild 00:59, 25 December 2006 (UTC)
Proposal summary
  • Language details: Vlax Romani (romani, rom ISO 639-3)
  • Editing community: —
    List your user name if you're interested in editing the wiki. Add "N" next to your
    name if you are a native speaker of this language.
  • Relevant pages: —
  • External links:
    —
Please read the handbook for requesters for help using this template correctly.

Arguments in favour

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Arguments against

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  • 12.105.165.28 (oppose "but only temporarily", since he feels that the native speakers have not shown any "staying power")

General discussion

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  • Ronline, what do you know of Romani? It is really not one language, but a group of at least five related languages with numerous dialects. Internally, the languages differ strongly, not only in phonology, but as well in grammar (some dialects have eight [!] cases, other fully dropped the case system) and in vocabulary (they share little words and adopted much from the languages of their sedentary neighbours, so dialects can be Slavonically, Hungarianly, Romanianly or Germanically affected). We should, if at all, aim at only one of those languages, preferably a dialect like the Slovakian one, which has started to be cultivated by its speakers at last. I would like to see one of these languages blessed with a Wikipedia, but it will be very difficult to find native speaker support, since the general prejudice that the gypsies are poor and seclusive is unfortunately true. Caesarion Velim, non opto 16:39, 22 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]
  • I don't think we can manage such a project unless we have a strong community from each of regional Roma language. At least 5 devoted to Wikimedia users from each of 5 presented country because otherwise we will be in imposibility to manage it. And another issue I want to raise is the fact that personally, I don't see how Wikipedia can reach Roma population by it's content by now. Most of them are analphabets. They don't know elementary (I'm speaking about Romania Roma's population) reading and writing. - Romihaitza 18:21, 24 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]
    • Well Romihaitza, the way I envisage this is setting up different projects for all of the separate languages. The disadvantage of splitting up the potential contributors is not as bad as the problems they would have to face in one Wikipedia all writing their own language - the differences are too broad. But start for the Rumanian dialects and see if you can contact some of them... Caesarion Velim, non opto 22:30, 24 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]
      • OK, let's try at least for a Wikipedia in Vlax Romany, the dialect spoken mainly in Romania. And I think there will be suitable people who can contribute, at least those who are involved with the Roma rights organisations. Ronline 01:12, 25 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]
    • That was what I was after, so I support this request! Caesarion Velim, non opto 15:07, 25 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]
    • Support. Vlax is the most important Romani language, so it's certainly the one to focus on. Some reports claim that more than half of all Romani speakers speak Vlax dialects, especially Kalderash, and that it also has prestige among speakers of other Romani varieties. There is a standard language being developed, based on Kalderash. Anyway, if there are native speakers involved I'll be happy to support this. --Chamdarae 10:35, 27 September 2005 (UTC) (updated 20:57, 15 October 2005 (UTC))[reply]
    • Support Raetius 13:29, 15 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]
    • Support Desiphral (N) Wouldn't be a better domain http://rom.wikipedia.org? The spelling Rroma is used only in Romania to make a difference of the majority Latin population (Romanians). Nowadays most of Vlax Roma live outside Romania, they are not accustomed with this spelling.
      • Desiphral, are you really a native speaker? That's excellent! I also think a better subdomain would be rom.wikipedia.org - someone changed it to rr.wikipedia, but the initial proposal was "rom". The only problem with "rom" is that it may confuse with "Romanian". The other thing is - it would be great if you could create an account on Meta-Wiki instead of using your IP address. Many thanks, Ronline 11:16, 20 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]
    • Support IulianU 15:59, 20 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]
    • Support the proposition. We shall not forget the target of this project (I mean readers) and how can they be involved. I propose having a questionaire at ro: where we shall ask visitors if they speak Vlax Romany and also if they can read or write. It can be important. Romihaitza 19:05, 21 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]
Other thing, I propose using SIL code RMY for subdomain because rom can be so confusing. http://rmy.wikipedia.org. -Romihaitza 19:08, 21 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]
    • Support this also. I think such a project will be interesting for all those interested in Rroma culture. The questionaire is also a great idea. RMY is better than ROM, will avoid confusion --Xanthar 02:57, 22 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]
      • Yes, rmy is the better code - according to Ethnologue it is now the ISO 639-3 code for Vlax Romany. rom is the code for the entire Romany language group, which can lead to confusion if there is demand for another Romany encyclopedia, in another Romany language (such as Balkan Romany, Baltic Romany, etc. Ronline 12:00, 22 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]
  • What about the other idea of having a questionaire? Maybe is better to have it gere at meta with translations. In this case all Wikipedias interested can have a message pointing to this questionarie. -Romihaitza 18:01, 22 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]
  • I've created the survey, please translate it atleast in principal Rom languages. -Romihaitza 18:49, 22 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support. I don’t speak any Vlax Romani, though. Will also support a Romani Rakripa version (a form of Scandinavian Romani which I do speak a wee bit of) when that (hopefully) comes up in the future. :-) Olve 21:24, 24 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]
    • PS: Wouldn’t the spelling “Vlax Romani” be more correct in English? -- Olve 21:40, 27 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]
      • Etimologically, Romani would be the more correct spelling. However, the Wikipedia article is at Romany language and this seems to be the most common spelling in English. This isn't a particularly significant issue, however, since it only applies to how the Wikipedia will be linked from the English Wikipedia which, if anything, is a matter for the English Wikipedia to decide. I think the native name is more important, which seems to be "romanes" or "romani". Ronline 08:11, 28 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]
  • Now, after we have seen that we have enough support and also we have possible visitors/helpers (in the survery there are already some people registered, unfortunately just from Romania because we don't have it translated in other languages and we don't have it announced) we absolutely need the interface translated. This is an important step in order to continue the request for creating the new language. Native speakers or just speakers are invited to translate the small format from here. -Romihaitza 20:11, 25 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Arbeo 09:17, 1 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Zordsdavini 06:18, 2 November 2005 (UTC)
  • Although I support a Romani WP, I don't think it should be created yet. None of the native speakers have shown any "staying power", and have no experience with the Wiki system whatsoever. I fear that if we don't wait and plan this better, this will end up like the Ladino Wikipedia -- empty, no users. And check out the request for Ladino -- at least 5 native speakers showed up to support it. But their Wiki is dead. Same with Tumbuka... For this reason, I oppose, but only temporarily. --12.105.165.28 09:27, 2 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]
    • Yes, I see your point of view. So far, we have two native speakers of Vlax Romany - Desiphral and Naayram. Both are new to Wikipedia, but I think both will do a good job on the Vlax Romany Wikipedia. I have a long time of experience at Wikipedia and I have written to both of them telling them about how the system works and what to do next. Additionally, I will become involved in the Vlax Romany Wikipedia, when it is set up, to oversee the activity there and make sure it is "standardised". Desiphral said he is currently getting Internet put at home, so in a short time he will start contributing, and I think he will make a very good contributor. He hasn't shown "staying power" yet because his Internet access hasn't been permanent, but from what I have talked to him, he is very intent in getting this project set up. Naayram has translated the Main Page in Romany, and has done a good job at it. Again, he doesn't have particularly permanent Internet access, but I think he will contribute. So, I propose that we do wait a bit - until Desiphral gets Internet at home so he can start making heavier contributions. There are also two more users who said they are native speakers - I have written them both e-mails but they haven't replied yet. If we can get them on the team, that would be great. Ronline 07:00, 3 November 2005 (UTC)-->[reply]
  • By now the test phase is almost completed and ready to launch. There is one issue that I want to present here. It was discussed earlier about what kind of Romani Wikipeida would be better to make. Some expresed concerns about its viability and switched to the Vlax Romani dialect. However, most of the work that was done till now in the Test wiki is in the standardized form of Romani. And we strongly support a Romani Wikipedia, not just one in a particular dialect. It is true that Romani is alternatively presented as a group of dialects or a group of languages, but this is not an impediment for a standardized form. The dialects grouped under the names vlax, balkanic and karpatic which have the biggest numbers of speakers are also very close and to a cetrain degree mutual inteligible. The existence of some dialects that dropped the case system and mingled more with foreign languages should not impede the creation of a wiki in the standardized form the same as for English which has also many pidgins, dialects and varieties. The Kurdish language presents a similar situation, being described alternatively as a group of dialects or of languages and the same as for Romani the creation of its standardized form is a contemporary process. Yet they have a wiki which seems to work fine. Moreover, there are many Roma whose ancestors losed the language in the past and they relearned it in the last decades. In most cases they use a standardized form with features from more dialects and being equal to no one. For more details, here is the article about the Romani language updated with material from our Test wiki. So, in conclusion, if some people would like in the future to create a Vlax Romani Wikipedia or in other dialect, they have our blessing, but now we want and we are prepared to make just a Romani one. We already have a discussion about the policies of mutual respect between the speakers of different varieties and we really think we can create a thriving Romani Wikipedia.Desiphral 21:02, 20 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Vlax Romany Survey

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Română : Este în discuţie o cerere pentru o nouă ediţie Wikipedia în limba Vlax Romany. Acest chestionar doreşte să ajute comunitatea în a vedea câţi vorbitori de Vlax Romany folosesc deja Wikipedia. Vă rugăm să traduceţi acest chestionar în propria dumneavoastră limbă. Ar trebui să îl avem tradus măcar în limbile din ţările în care sunt vorbitori de Vlax Romany.

Marcaţi cu [N] dacă sunteţi un vorbitor nativ; semnaţi adăugând patru tilde (~~~~). Înainte de a semna, vă rugăm să vă faceţi un cont de utilizator pe MetaWiki, mergând aici. Alternativ, lăsăţi-vă adresa de e-mail ca să vă putem contacta când va fi lansată Wikipedia.

English: There is in discussion a request for a new language Wikipedia in Vlax Romany. This questionaire is meant to help the community to see how many Vlax Romany speakers already use Wikipedia. Please translate this in your language. We should have at least translated into the languages of countries in which there exists Vlax Romany speakers. Please mark with [N] if you are a native speaker); sign by adding four tildes (~~~~). Before you sign, please make an user account at MetaWiki by going here or you can leave your email address so we can contact you when Vlax Romany Wikipedia will be launched.
Español : Hay una solicitud en discusión acerca de una nueva Wikipedia en idioma Romaní Vlax. Este cuestionario está pensado para ayudar a la comunidad a conocer cuántos hablantes de Romaní Vlax utilizan ya la Wikipedia. Por favor, traduce esto a tu idioma. Deberíamos tenerlo traducido al menos en los idiomas de los países en los que hay hablantes de Romaní Vlax. Por favor, marca con [N] si eres hablante nativo; firma utilizando cuatro virgulillas (~~~~). Antes de firmar, por favor, créate una cuenta de usuario de MetaWiki desde aquí, o puedes dejar tu dirección de correo electrónico para que nos pongamos en contacto contigo cuando lancemos la Wikipeda en Romaní Vlax.

Readers

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Română : Următoarele persoane pot citi Vlax Romany.
English: The following persons can read Vlax Romany.
Español : Las personas listadas a continuación saben leer Romaní Vlax.
  1. Desiphral (N)- 86.104.239.250 24 October 2005 12:49 (UTC)
  2. Andrei (N) - 81.180.77.243 25 October 2005 08:35 (UTC)
  3. Viorica - 203.153.229.47 25 October 2005 07:19 (UTC)
  4. Ioana (N) - 85.204.4.116 25 October 2005 16:21 (UTC)
  5. Vlad (N) - 83.40.22.91 25 October 2005 21:25 (UTC)
  6. Anonim - 82.77.21.102 27 October 2005 10:50 (
  7. Marius - Marius gradinaru 1 November 2005 19:54 (UTC)

Writers

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Română : Următoarele persoane pot scrie Vlax Romany.
English: The following persons can write Vlax Romany.
Español : Las personas listadas a continuación saben escribir Romaní Vlax.
  1. Andrei (N) - 81.180.77.243 25 October 2005 08:35 (UTC)
  2. Viorica - 203.153.229.47 25 October 2005 07:19 (UTC)
  3. Ioana (N) - 85.204.4.116 25 October 2005 16:21 (UTC)
  4. Oana - 193.239.145.10 29 October 2005 11:40 (UTC)
  5. Naayram (N) - 82.79.41.142 30 October 2005 19:31 (UTC)
  6. Desiphral (N)

Speakers

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Română : Următoarele persoane pot vorbi Vlax Romany.
English: The following persons can speak Vlax Romany.
Español : Las personas listadas a continuación saben hablar Romaní Vlax.
  1. Andrei (N) - 81.180.77.243 25 October 2005 08:35 (UTC)
  2. Ioana (N) - 85.204.4.116 25 October 2005 16:21 (UTC)
  3. Naayram (N) - 82.79.41.142 30 October 2005 19:31 (UTC)
  4. Desiphral (N)
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