Picard's Facepalm

September 2024

Hello, I am Sam. Welcome to Meta. This is a message telling you about your negative engagements in Wikipedia.

First of all, on Jacobchoi20’s talk page, he made a formal message to you to look through everything they had done. However, you mistook it for a legal threat, which is not making any sense at all.

Then, by your response to the underlying IP 220.255.180.65, you made a legal threat: “If there were a WP article for "You can lead a horse to water, but you can't force it to drink" it would have your photo at the top of the infobox.” I am truly sorry, but having someone’s photos on Wikipedia without their permission is against Wikipedia’s confidentiality policy. You did not have permission granted for the creation of the page. And by the change of IPs to 220.255.188.227, while he made a message there, he repeated it and asked you if you felt good after this.

Please do not repeat “Editing Wikipedia is not your job. If your CEO asks you to do it, perhaps it be a conflict of interest? See WP:COI.” It is not to be continuous, and that just wasted your time on engaging with other users.

You literally said, “ Not sure what you are referring to about "your creations" - perhaps your company is trying to make aircraft? If so - I wish you luck and success.” By taking part of an AfD for the S100 aircraft they worked hard on creating, you are not doing so.

To answer your question “which aerospace company”, you have written on your user page on Wikipedia. It is meant to be called Sihae Aircraft Manufacturing Co., Ltd. or its shortened form SAMCO only.

Furthermore, I live in one of the two residential towers near their company, and my sister does not work there, neither do I. Their CEO had told me that he wants to write “The Journal of Aviation”, and he would like to add this severe case to the ends of all three parts.

Thank you for your time. SAMCOcreator1655 (talk) 03:32, 1 September 2024 (UTC)

Not sure why I am being tagged in this issue yet again, after so many months that it has passed - but I will address this in response only once, and then I will wash my hands of it yet again - but for the absolute final time. Please ensure that you understand that fact and do not pull me into this any more.

First - I did not require a welcome to Meta. I was not a part of Meta or engaged on Meta or even registered on Meta until you mentioned me and that tagging carried over elsewhere. Not sure what the point is at all of bringing up this issue here - it was exhaustively discussed on WP Proper, and the multiple accounts of the offending user have been permanently blocked. There is absolutely zero need to move and re-open the can of worms here.

Second - I did not mistake anything for a legal threat. Quoting him, "Please note that this involved my CEO, too. They wanted to state that this was unappreciative to the whole company and it was extremely disrespectful towards us. This should stop now. I hope this matter is looked into and someone takes necessary action.". After which I clearly stated that it stopped short of a legal threat. Meaning - it went right up to the line of becoming one, especially when taken in the totality of the other comments in the other threads (one of which DID have a direct, legal threat in it).

My response to 220.255.180.65 is by absolutely no measure anything close to that of "legal threat". How the hell do you come up with that kind of a flagrantly wild extrapolation? One would need to have some serious reading comprehension issues to come to the end of that being a legal threat when in reality it was merely an analogy or an idiom, and it was a purely hypothetical one, at that - utilizing the key word of "if" in my statement that you refer to. That is a very important word in this cotnext. I have linked "analogy" above here for your convenience so you can make sure you understand the context of what you are speaking about the next time you try to use it against them. And I also stand by my statement - IF indeed there were a WP page for you can lead a horse to water but you cannot force it drink - it would have [their] photo at the top of the infobox". The interactions with Jacobchoi and their endless myriad of block-evading accounts along with their outright refusal to read, understand and follow long-established WP policies and procedures is a textbook example of the horse not drinking the water which they were lead to. I exhaustively explained this on 220.255.188.227's talk page. Again - this was nothing more than a hypothetical analogy to drive and drive the point home in the user's brain. I see it has worked even less for you than it has for them. That's not on me. Make sure you understand what a hypothetical analogy is before you ever think to throw daggers at me again. That kind of misgiving on your part will be tolerated once - and only once. Clear?

Additionally, I do in fact have permission to create pages on WP. I have created pages and I will continue to create more... and maybe it is indeed time for one with regards to "leading a horse to water". I might also add that just about every single person who has their photo in an article on WP has not given their permission for it to be on WP. No permission is necessary nor required if the person who actually captured the photo grants permission for it to be used. There is absolutely no such policy like what you claim on WP. If you truly believe otherwise, then I encourage you to go over to WP Commons and engage in such ludicrous discussion with the userbase there. Lastly - if a user has any expectation of confidentiality - it would probably be in their best interest not to actually use their real and given name as their username on WP. Just sayin'.

I am going to repeat my references to WP:COI because it is WP policy and it absolutely applies to this scenario. It is in fact yet another textbook example as to why that policy exists in the first place. Citing WP policy is not a waste of time - it is ensuring the users are given ample opportunity to make sure they understand and follow WP policy. If they don't - then they are the only one who are wasting time as their edits will likely be reverted and their access will likely be revoked so all of their efforts will have been for nothing. That is yet another textbook example of wasted time. the COI policy is there to be read - not ignored by users who are creating content based upon such scenarios, and no - their job is not to edit WP. Period. These statements and references to WP policy will in fact continue for as long as the block-evading user demonstrates it is necessary to do so.

Your statement of "my not wishing luck and success" in their efforts in potentially creating an aircraft simply because I was part of an AfD to remove the article about it is not only disingenuous - but is also an outright lie on your part. Understand clearly: YOU do not get to tell me how I feel or what I think. Only one person on this earth does - and that is me. Got it? If I say I wish them luck and success it is because I do, and I am very genuine in every single word I speak or type in my life.

That being said - clearly both you and they need to come to grips with the reality the success of any product on this planet does not hinge on the creation or existence of a Wikipedia article.

Additionally - I don't care where you live, and it does not matter at all in any of the context of what has happened here. Same goes with regards to where you work, or where your sister works. Nobody knows either of you, nobody cares where either of you live, and nobody cares where either of you work. Absolutely none of that matter with regards to your post here, my response here, or what has transpired on WP with Jacobchoi's multiple accounts and AnonIPs, or even anything to do with regards to this supposed aero company. What was your actual point in bringing any of that up?

If the CEO wants to get into aero journalism - that's their prerogative. That has nothing to do with any of this. If he wants to write about The Journal (or Journey) of Aviation - the first thing that he needs to understand is that Wikipedia has nothing to do with Aviation or Journalism. If the CEO cannot understand at least that much - then he has no business in either field. As it seems he has some sort of influence over you and your contribution here - I will state the obvious: Between that influence, your connection to the CEO and your remarks of where you live and the involvement of your sister (huh?) - it is most likely the case that this is just yet another multiple account of Jacobchoi20, and it is likely to reveal that it too is being used over on WP to evade blocks - or at the very least is yet another, very clear example of WP:COI. If indeed that is the case - then yes, your account too will be put on notice for said COI. Again - it is on you to understand what that is and why that is bad. It is not on me to not keep reminding you of it until you understand it.

To put a bow on this - do not bother to respond to this. Do not mention me further. Do not comment on my talk pages. Do not prolong what is a closed discussion & situation on WP Proper over to here. Doing so will only result your demonstrating yet another analogy - that of beating a dead horse. Be quiet, move along and leave me alone. -- Picard's Facepalm (talk) 19:44, 3 September 2024 (UTC)

We cannot agree with your assessment.

While the quoted statement from the CEO's representative may have been perceived as aggressive or intimidating, it does not constitute a legal threat. A legal threat involves a clear and explicit statement of intent to take legal action. The statement in question merely expresses dissatisfaction and a desire for the situation to be addressed.

It is also important to note that context is crucial in interpreting such statements. While the other comments in the threads may have been more explicit in their threats, that does not automatically mean that the CEO's representative's statement should be categorized as such.

A more accurate interpretation would be that the CEO's representative was expressing strong disapproval and perhaps even exploring the possibility of legal action, but did not explicitly threaten to do so. GyecheonSageori (talk) 04:21, 5 September 2024 (UTC)

Your agreement or lack thereof is inconsequential. The supposed CEO's supposed statement is inconsequential as they did not make any statement on WP. Even if the CEO did make the statements themselves - either way their dissatisfaction would violate WP's WP:COI policies. This was explained on WP - where this conversation belongs and where it was already had. Since the statements were posted by the same person as the explicit threats - it all falls under WP:THREAT. Again - this has already been addressed on WP where this conversation belongs. Picard's Facepalm (talk) 14:09, 5 September 2024 (UTC)

Imagine that - I was right. You are a sock of AirbusA350500, which also has a sock named Jacobchoi20. What a surprise... How could I have possibly guessed that? It's really not smart of you to refer to yourself in the third person like you did in this post of yours. So let me be real clear - knock it off and back off, or you're gonna find your accounts here on Meta sanctioned, too. Reference: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Sockpuppet_investigations/AirbusA350500/Archive Picard's Facepalm (talk) 19:50, 3 September 2024 (UTC)

Sure, and it is just whatever happens to get someone to make legal threats, and it is definitely you who tried to taunt my little brother, and I did not appreciate that. Please disengage with the further arguments. GyecheonSageori (talk) 14:04, 4 September 2024 (UTC)

Thanks, Gye. Knew you’d be there for me…

I think this just makes Picard angrier, and I’m more than just frightened of them now.

For Picard, please understand how your message had made me this frightened and how it made my sister furious. You had made us very uncomfortable, and your message seems to be extremely disturbing and distressing. That is why she had told you to disengage and stop making it further.

If you can do that again, I would be hiding under a thick blanket, and Gye would be using her headphones to extract your speech. If you were to be a pal, Gye would be screaming at your face in anger to see if that works.

Once again, please do not make anyone distressed. SAMCOcreator1655 (talk) 14:15, 4 September 2024 (UTC)

Again - no legal threats have been made except by the OP on WP which were identified for him there. Read this over and over and over and over again until you FITFO. Nobody was taunting anyone - at least not until you both (lol) here started to do so to me, now in this thread - which there will be consequences for. To quite the contrary - your supposed little brother (we all know it is the same person running both accounts, just like all of his other accounts pretending to be other people on WP) was being educated. Whether or not you like it is completely inconsequential - and quite honestly, I don't care what you do or do not appreciate. You have illicitly inserted yourself into a situation of which you are not a part of (unless of course you are referring yourself in the third person yet again lol). Stay in your lane. I will converse with whomever I choose - especially if they are the ones engaging me, regardless of your requests - and in a discussion thread of which you are not a part of.

I'm not at all angry - in fact I am quite amused at how much and how rapidly your ignorance in every single aspect of this situation has rampantly increased - and it brings me lots of laughs. Additionally hysterical - if those observations and my mere words of explanation and education for you are "frightening" - then you have some seriously, deeply rooted issues that you should probably seek some professional help in resolving. I will also again state that wiki-anything is not the best place for you, and strongly urge you to remove yourself from the Internet entirely if you think our interactions here and on WP bring you such trauma - cause when you actually discover the Internet and everything that is on it - you will most likely end up in clinical shock.

Now, if it made your supposed (lol) sister angry - first, I don't care, and second - she needs to seek out some anger management counselling. Understand clearly: It is not my fault that you now feel uncomfortable in a discussion & situation which YOU willingly and very unwisely put yourself into. YOU put yourself (and your supposed sister) into this situation by changing platforms and harassing me here - in a place I did not even exist until YOU did it. YOU made yourself and her distressed by doing so. All of the blame for this falls only on one person - and that is you - and ONLY YOU. YOU were the ones who engaged me here - if you want your comfort level to resume - then YOU need to disengage me here. Period.

I am going to echo @Yamla's sentiment on his talk page here when you did the same to him: IT IS DEEPLY INAPPROPRIATE FOR YOU TO CONTACT ME HERE.

So make sure you don't. ANY further such interaction with me on this or any other online platform will be interpreted as harassment, reported as such, and blanket sanctions sought against your accounts. You have exhausted my patience with your lunacy and your harassment. It stops now - or it will be stopped for you. Your silence will be taken as your apology and compliance. Anything other than that will result in action. Picard's Facepalm (talk) 18:51, 4 September 2024 (UTC)

That just makes us more agitated. You did not have to echo anything else as I know what I did. It is essential to know that Gye does not need any counselling like you insisted she must have, even if you do not care. And it is just what makes us disturbing at the first place. Please give us some peace, as it is more and further deeply inappropriate if your responses come off as disturbing or distressing. And, I can finally say - a boulder can cause a volcanic eruption - seemingly small issues can lead to a larger problem, regardless if someone asks you to do so, and all tragedy shall come to an end. This is all I can say, I had many issues with the CEO of SAMCO and the employees, and counselling is unnecessary as we already know how to calm down, and we do not have mental problems, as that offended us, but you did not care. We as a knocked off pair of siblings who just wanted to contribute, are to appeal our blocks. There are already many more things that can be called a tragedy. The CEO has confirmed, he will write that, and please do not say that Wikipedia has nothing to do with journalism, as we already know the advice, and there is no need to do so. And finally, all my exhaust after SAMCO’s… I can try to make this come to an end, not by quitting Wikipedia. While you do not care where we live or where we work, I can verify that the aerospace factory and headquarters stacked on top, as well as the two residential towers we live in, are all different areas. Please do not go far on this, neither of us would like to be dragged here as well. SAMCOcreator1655 (talk) 00:35, 5 September 2024 (UTC)

Yeah, I’m glad you’re right, Sam! Keep going. :-) GyecheonSageori (talk) 00:43, 5 September 2024 (UTC)

I don't care what makes you more agitated. That is your problem since it is YOUR behaviour and the results it generates which is what is making you agitated. Only one person can fix that: YOU. Yes - apparently I do need to echo what you did because it is clear that YOU do not understand what it is that YOU did. Because you keep doing it - and you keep ignoring what is being told to you on how to STOP doing it and how to fix it - just as you did yet again by posting your reply here.

If you want peace then STOP engaging in fights with me. Pretty damn simple. It is your engagement with me, and your endless ignoring of advice, recommendation and following WP policies and guidelines which you have been referred to which has directly resulted in any disturbed or distressed feelings you have.

Your issues with the CEO or the company are inconsequential to WP. See WP:NOTFORUM on WP for more on that. Clearly you do not know how to calm down as all you have done on WP and here is inane and barely coherent rambling while flatly deflecting and ignoring any information and advice given to you and all your multiple accounts and personalities by no less than a dozen other users on WP and on here. This is clearly a challenge for you and you must look within yourself to resolve this. Again - you've already been led to the water, yet you refuse to drink. That's on you. Nobody else.

If you want to properly contribute to WP and appeal your blocks - all of the information regarding how to do that has already been repeatedly provided to you on WP. If you do not want to follow the processes and policies for appeal and for your conduct on WP - then no, you will not be unblocked, or if you are - you will quickly be sanctioned again, as has already happened to you repeatedly. Acknowledge and learn from your mistakes - rather than making them again and again. The literal definition of insanity is doing the same things over and over and expecting a different results. Ponder on that a while.

Again - where you live and work is inconsequential. Stop bringing it up. It does not matter, other than the fact that you apparently work for the company which you are trying to create WP content for. Understand: YOU CANNOT DO THAT. That is literally what the WP:COI policy prohibits. Stop. Doing. It. This is expressly why myself and others have told you repeatedly that no matter what your boss has told you - your job is NOT to edit WP.

Again - if you do not want to get dragged into this - STOP dragging yourself (and others from WP) into this. You had absolutely ZERO reason to move your issue to this platform and try to re-engage with people from there on here about that. You've now been told by multiple individuals that is was not at all appropriate for you to do - and once again you are ignoring what you have been told and are persisting in your disallowed conduct. . You dragged yourself into this... it is up to you to drag yourself out. And no, you are not right. Picard's Facepalm (talk) 14:35, 5 September 2024 (UTC)

And to end off - my sister and I will disengage, regardless if you would like to make us more aware of you and what you will do.

Gye, let’s get outta this dang helly place, and let’s just move on. The shards… they were almost shot on us… so let’s get outta here for safety. SAMCOcreator1655 (talk) 14:46, 5 September 2024 (UTC)

Sam was right, and I am getting rather angrier at you, please understand that YOU ARE NOT THE MAIN CHARACTER and ONLY A FEW PEOPLE CAN LOOK UP ON YOU. I can show you how terrible this has gone. It is my understanding to look after my little brother. You can not tease him, and I may have a motherly behaviour on him. In other words, your use of “don’t care” is very inappropriate. While I surely love him, we are already grown-ups, and we know what we are doing. GyecheonSageori (talk) 00:54, 5 September 2024 (UTC)

That’s exactly what I’m referring to.

To Picard, please note that there are two last straws that would break our backs. SAMCOcreator1655 (talk) 13:06, 5 September 2024 (UTC)

Sam (who is really you) is not right. I don't care if you are getting angrier at me. The reality is you are actually getting angry at yourself because (once again) it is your behaviour which is resulting in your anger. Again - seek out anger management counselling. Your statement regarding me not being the main character does not make any sense in this context. This is not about me. It IS about you. FITFO. Nobody has been teasing anyone - and nobody here is interested in your siblingship.

My use of "don't care" is not inappropriate - it is simply factual. Those things you are trying to state and raise here have absolutely no bearing on the situation at hand. Yes - this includes: who you work for (other than the resulting COI), where you live, who your brother or sister or multiple personality is, what your relationship is with the CEO, employees or each other, what city you live in, what building you live in, where any of those locations are in relation to each other, etc. I don't care because they are not applicable to ANY of this - and is only contributing to your inane & incoherent ramblings, as pointed out to you before by multiple people at WP.

As for being grown up - usually grown ups are capable of reading, understanding, following and adhering to simple instructions, guidelines, rules, policies and advice. To date - you have not done this even once. So - I'd question that claim of yours, too.

Lastly - straws that will break your backs? Are you threatening me yet again? Have you learned absolutely nothing by the repeated and lengthening sanctions of your multiple accounts and personalities at WP? Well - I will tell you what has broken mine - you have ignored my direct demand against your continued harassment of me here (and elsewhere in wikispace). Your accounts here have now been reported and I am actively pursuing permanent, irrevocable blocks for all your accounts here and on WP.

We're done here, and if I have anything to do about it - you're done in Wikispace, entirely. Stop harassing me and leave me alone. Picard's Facepalm (talk) 14:54, 5 September 2024 (UTC)