Me Da Wikipedian

Talking about Wikinews

I got your email, Me Da Wikipedian. Given the recent events at Wikinews, I believe it would be best for any discussion between us to happen with full transparency. Do you still want to talk about it? Darkfrog24 (talk) 12:50, 22 September 2024 (UTC)

@Darkfrog24 sure if @Gryllida is okay with it (my understanding was that their issue was that it was displayed publicly, not the location). Me Da Wikipedian (talk) 19:23, 22 September 2024 (UTC)

I got the impression G didn't want the discussion to take place on Wikinews. Wikinews is a smaller site and intense conversations, even on a user talk page, can clog the "recent changes" feature. Years ago, someone once compared an intense conversation I was having to a denial of service attack. Since you've pinged Gryllida, we might as well wait for an answer. I plan to give you the exact same advice I would have given you on your Wikinews talk page. If it happens here, there will be a public record of what was and was not said. I think that's best. You get to say "no thanks" etc. at any time. Darkfrog24 (talk) 19:51, 22 September 2024 (UTC)

@Darkfrog24 I agree that there should be a public record, and I think it should ideally be on my talk page, frankly, as that has become the centralized location for discussion about this. Ideally the EmailUser function would also be publicly accessable but...

Please add your advice here if Gryllida says it is okay or doesn't respond in 24 hours. Me Da Wikipedian (talk) 21:44, 23 September 2024 (UTC)

@Darkfrog24 At this point I think you can and should just leave your advice here. @Gryllida has had more than 2 days to respond and has chosen not to and is currently active on Wikinews. Me Da Wikipedian (talk) 21:45, 24 September 2024 (UTC)

Okay, here's what I would have told you. I'm not an admin or a mind reader. I've just worked with a lot of these people for a long time and here's what I think is going on with them.

• The main thing about the Wikinews block is that now the other Wikinewsies don't trust you.
  • This is because you impersonated someone, but THAT Wikinewsies don't trust you, and for a legitimate you-really-did-do-the-thing reason, is more important than why not.
• All that other stuff is supporting details. (Acagastya was probably just being thorough.)

If you make an unblock request that addresses zero of the other stuff but does address the no-trust thing, it will probably succeed. If you address all the other stuff perfectly but don't address the no-trust thing, it will probably fail. It's probably not fair, but all that talking about the supporting stuff was making you look worse because it made it look like you didn't see that the big important thing is the no-trust.

Several people said something like "the problem is the imposture/that we can't trust you," but I'm not 100% that someone told you flat-out "and that's the main thing," so I'm doing it. That's the main thing. The rest of that stuff is less important.

I don't remember exactly who said it, but if you want to get unblocked on Wikinews, the best thing to do is walk away for at least six months and spend the time making productive contributions on another part of Project Wiki, maybe here on Meta. I think they're right, except I'd give it much longer than six months. The way you dig yourself out of this hole is by being a trustworthy contributor somewhere else, somewhere Wikinewsies respect. You may even find yourself interacting with some of the same people along the way. I see you're not blocked on the English Wikipedia, and that's a biggie because it has many different kinds of ways to contribute.

If you were telling the truth about not understanding why you did it, then the right thing to do would be, one way or another, to find out why you did it and fix the problem.

Good luck. Darkfrog24 (talk) 22:51, 24 September 2024 (UTC)

@Darkfrog24 Thank you. I don't exactly see how to address the no-trust thing. The reason I was talking about the other stuff is because that's what can be addressed. I have obviously not made any more imposter accounts or done anything else bad, but I don't think anyone in the community now trusts me because of that. Ultimately, the primary way to gain trust is positive contributions, which the block (obviously) prevents me from doing. I will try your suggestion of waiting a while with contributions elsewhere. Yes, I still don't know exactly why I did it, but I don't exactly know how to find out why I did it. Honestly, from the unblock requests standpoint, I don't think the why is that important. The important thing is "I did X and lost the community's trust. Does the community trust me to not do X again?"

By the way the Main Page is messed up (again). Now that I'm gone for the forseeable, someone else is going to need to take over the "fix the Main Page after every single article because none of the reviewers know how it works" role. Me Da Wikipedian (talk) 23:39, 24 September 2024 (UTC)

"The reason I was talking about the other stuff is because that's what can be addressed." Yes, and that made you look bad because it makes it look like you are dismissing the main thing.

You address the no-trust thing with years of productive contributions elsewhere. It's slow and I know of no shortcuts.

"I don't exactly know how to find out why I did it." One way to do that would be with a competent psychological professional. Darkfrog24 (talk) 12:06, 25 September 2024 (UTC)