Talk:Wikiwisdom

General discussion

Hello, thank you for the interesting proposal. It would be much easier for me to get an idea of it if you could answer some questions:

• Is the content supposed to be "made in the wiki" or "made outside/imported"?
• How will it be a wiki, will different people be allowed to edit one and the same piece of text?
• How exactly will the content be useful for readers? What would be some use cases?

Kind regards --Ziko (talk) 09:47, 16 August 2019 (UTC)

One possibility involves uses of infoboxes for each type of wisdom material (anecdotes, proverbs, quotations, lyrics, poetry, narratives and humor). Each type of wisdom material could have a corresponding infobox. There could exist templates for generating new, initial pages for each type of wisdom material. When creating a new item, people might select the type of wisdom material which they desired to create and, next, obtain a template-generated page with comments indicating what content to add where and with Wikidata-powered infoboxes for them to populate with data (see also: https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Infobox_Tutorial).

A second possibility involves more complex content-editing pages. Content-editing pages could include forms for viewing and editing content, data and metadata. Content-viewing pages could be generated from wiki text content and Wikidata-based data and metadata.

In both of the possibilities indicated above, different people would be allowed to edit one and the same piece of text or to make use of more elaborate hypertext forms with which to view or edit the content, data and metadata of wisdom materials. Additionally, the content, data and metadata of wisdom materials could be synchronized with Wikidata.

Adding some complexity is that wisdom materials can have multiple interpretations. There should, then, be means to view wisdom materials’ interpretations, to add interpretations, to remove interpretations and to edit the contents of interpretations. Wisdom materials, as envisioned, have URL’s with unique identifiers instead of article titles and each interpretation of each wisdom material could, similarly, have a unique identifier.

Use cases include that people might desire to browse wisdom materials for their own use or to share them with one or more friends on social media. This could be in response to news events, in other varieties of social media posts, in comments in response to others’ social media posts, and so forth. In these regards, the ease of searching for and discovering wisdom materials is very important.

Varieties of search and discovery include: (1) keyword-based search for the surface texts of wisdom materials, (2) keyword-based search into the contents of the interpretations of wisdom materials, (3) metadata-based search for wisdom materials, (4) metadata-based search for the interpretations of wisdom materials, (5) contextual, situational or case-based search, and (6) browsing wisdom materials which are new or trending per being shared on social media.

The example proverb “a rolling stone gathers no moss” has surface text including the keywords of “rolling”, “stone”, “gathers” and “moss”. Searching for the proverb using its surface text would require the use of one or more of those keywords. The proverb has two main interpretations. In one, “moss” is viewed negatively suggesting that one should stay active and current. In the other, “moss” is viewed positively suggesting the merits of stability. By providing content per interpretation, e.g. keywords, categories, text content, paraphrases, metadata and so forth, one can search for the interpretations to obtain the wisdom materials themselves.

Metadata-based search involves searching for wisdom materials or their interpretations based on their metadata, e.g. authorship, region of origin, date of origin, original language, original culture, philosophical tradition, and so forth.

Contextual, situational or case-based search involves describing real-world contexts, situations or cases to obtain responsive, paginated sequences of search results. People could search in this way to obtain wisdom materials for their own uses or to share with others. There are as many scenarios to consider in these regards as there are occasions to contemplate or communicate. User interface possibilities for describing contexts, situations or cases include entering natural language into text input areas as well as uses of menu systems.

AdamSobieski (talk) 16:01, 17 August 2019 (UTC)

Wikiquote

None of the proposed content is "wisdom" (especially not "lyrics, poetry, narratives and humor"). The parts of it which are legal are supposed to go to Wikiquote. Have you tried developing Wikiquote in one language in the direction you envision? Nemo 18:58, 22 August 2019 (UTC)

I disagree with your statement that there is not any wisdom in any anecdote, proverb or quotation and especially not in any lyric, poem, narrative or humor.

Wikiquote describes itself as “a free online compendium of sourced quotations from notable people and creative works in every language, translations of non-English quotes, and links to Wikipedia for further information.” (https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Main_Page) Wikiquote defines appropriate content in terms of “quotability”. Wikiquote’s definition of quotability includes a consideration of whether the quote is “particularly witty, pithy, wise, eloquent, or poignant.” (https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Wikiquote:Quotability)

This Wikiwisdom proposal does, in some ways, resemble the Structured Wikiquote proposal from January of 2014. Depending upon implementational details, Structured Wikiquote software could be of use for the Wikiwisdom project. Structured Wikiquote software could be developed upon in a number of envisioned directions.

Wikiwisdom intends to advance a number of technologies beyond those topics discussed in the Structured Wikiquote proposal. For instance, some advancements to search and discovery are indicated. Varieties of search and discovery include: (1) keyword-based search for the surface texts of wisdom materials, (2) keyword-based search into the contents of the interpretations of wisdom materials, (3) metadata-based search for wisdom materials, (4) metadata-based search for the interpretations of wisdom materials, (5) contextual, situational or case-based search, and (6) browsing wisdom materials which are new or trending per being shared on social media.

Points 2 and 4, above, involve the modeling of varieties of wisdom materials so as to include multiple interpretations and to provide content for these interpretations, e.g. keywords, categories, text content, paraphrases, metadata and so forth. In this way, people would be able to search for the interpretations to obtain the wisdom materials.

Wikiwisdom also intends to provide social media integration. Wikiquote does not presently provide social media integration, for instance the means of easily sharing items with others on social media.

The Wikiquote project includes content in a number of languages; there are a large number of Wikiquote pages. One might ask what happens to the existing Wikiquote content should the Wikiquote project transition into a Structured Wikiquote?

One might also ask whether anecdotes, proverbs, lyrics, poems, narratives (e.g. parables, allegories) and humor are all types of quotes? Meanwhile, wisdom materials are defined as including: anecdotes, proverbs, quotations, lyrics, poetry, narratives and humor. Wise quotations can be defined as a type of wisdom material. For the Wikiwisdom project, different types of wisdom materials are envisioned as having different types of metadata, different types of infoboxes, and there could be means of searching for different types of wisdom materials individually or in combination.

As an aside, in addition to there being proverbs on Wikiquote, there are also proverbs on Wikipedia (https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Category:Proverbs , https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Proverbs , https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Proverbs , https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_proverbial_phrases). That is, proverbs can also be encyclopedic.

AdamSobieski (talk) 23:35, 22 August 2019 (UTC)

Proverbs and sayings are also sometimes hosted on Wikipedia and Wiktionary, sure; one more reason to avoid having yet another place where to put them. All of the things you describe can be tried and done on Wikiquote. Nemo 07:50, 23 August 2019 (UTC)

I think that it shows the value of proverbs and an interest in them from the volunteer community that they are on Wikiquote, Wiktionary and Wikipedia. Proverbs are also but one type of wisdom material; there are also anecdotes, quotations, lyrics, poems, narratives and humor.

It would be great if the ideas of this proposal and those of the Structured Wikiquote proposal could inspire some new features for Wikiquote or other Wikimedia projects and software platforms. There could be, however, some static friction with respect to versioning Wikiquote to a Structured Wikiquote, for instance as pertaining to content migration. It might be better to start a new sister project atop the ideas of this proposal and of the Structured Wikiquote proposal.

Wikiwisdom differs from Wikiquote in a number of important ways. Points to consider include: (1) varieties of wisdom materials: anecdotes, proverbs, quotations, lyrics, poetry, narratives and humor, (2) the modeling, metadata and ontology of varieties of wisdom materials, topics of which include multiple interpretations, (3) Wikidata integration, (4) new search and discovery techniques, and (5) social media integration with which to ease the sharing of varieties of wisdom materials.

AdamSobieski (talk) 09:54, 23 August 2019 (UTC)

None of these is a structural difference. All of them can already be developed and experimented on any willing Wikiquote subdomain. Nemo 13:34, 24 August 2019 (UTC)

While the technical ideas of this proposal for a new sister project, Wikiwisdom, could potentially enhance Wikiquote or other Wikimedia Foundation projects and software, the differences between this proposal and Wikiquote are significant. The technology of this proposal is atop and beyond those ideas broached in the Structured Wikiquote proposal. The Structured Wikiquote proposal's Phabricator ticket's status is presently stalled. It was you who changed that specific ticket's status from open to stalled back in in 2015 and again in 2019. A versioning of Wikiquote is not required by nor interdependent with this proposal for a new sister project.

AdamSobieski (talk) 14:14, 25 August 2019 (UTC)

The problem of that task is that it's too broad: it's not a specific feature request and it doesn't have consensus for what it seeks to do. What you propose is mostly feasible within a single language subdomain, with local consensus and software customisation. A local prototype is also useful for the interested people to write a MediaWiki extension to make the desired features scale to other subdomains (or possibly the entire Wikiquote) if there was consensus to do so. Nemo 10:53, 30 August 2019 (UTC)

Wisdom materials

I have been developing the applied wisdom curriculum on Wikiversity for some time. Those materials can be helpful in getting this started. Thanks --Lbeaumont (talk) 09:50, 30 September 2021 (UTC)

Modeling, metadata and ontology

Search and discovery

Social media integration

Research

I have proposed an "Encyclopedia of Ought" that could be called WikiWisdom. Perhaps these ideas can be melded into a coherent and valuable new resource. Thanks. --Lbeaumont (talk) 09:55, 30 September 2021 (UTC)