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Requests for new languages/Wikiversity Simple English

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submitted verification final decision

This proposal has been rejected.
This decision was taken by the language committee in accordance with the Language proposal policy based on the discussion on this page.

A committee member provided the following comment:

The closing comment at the recently closed request for a Simple English Wikibooks also applies to a great extent here. Additionally, the English Wikiversity community has stated below that it would be happy to host Simple English content. So if this is a serious request, please create such content on English Wikiversity. For LangCom: StevenJ81 (talk) 16:33, 26 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • The community needs to develop an active test project; it must remain active until approval (automated statistics). It is generally considered active if the analysis lists at least three active, not-grayed-out editors listed in the sections for the previous few months.
  • The community needs to complete required MediaWiki interface translations in that language (about localization, translatewiki, check completion).
  • The community needs to discuss and complete the settings table below:
What Value Example / Explanation
Proposal
Language code en-simple (SIL, Glottolog) A valid ISO 639-1 or 639-3 language code, like "fr", "de", "nso", ...
Language name Simple English Language name in English
Language name Simple English Language name in your language. This will appear in the language list on Special:Preferences, in the interwiki sidebar on other wikis, ...
Language Wikidata item Q21480034 - item has currently the following values:
 Item about the language at Wikidata. It would normally include the Wikimedia language code, name of the language, etc. Please complete at Wikidata if needed.
Directionality no indication Is the language written from left to right (LTR) or from right to left (RTL)?
Links Links to previous requests, or references to external websites or documents.
Site URL en-simple.wikiversity.org langcode.wikiproject.org

Settings
Project name Wikiversity "Wikiversity" in your language
Project namespace Wikiversity usually the same as the project name
Project talk namespace Wikiversity_talk "Wikiversity talk" (the discussion namespace of the project namespace)
Enable uploads yes Default is "no". Preferably, files should be uploaded to Commons.
If you want, you can enable local file uploading, either by any user ("yes") or by administrators only ("admin").
Notes: (1) This setting can be changed afterwards. The setting can only be "yes" or "admin" at approval if the test creates an Exemption Doctrine Policy (EDP) first. (2) Files on Commons can be used on all Wikis. (3) Uploading fair-use images is not allowed on Commons (more info). (4) Localisation to your language may be insufficient on Commons.
Optional settings
Project logo commons:File:Wikiversity-simple.png This needs to be an SVG image (instructions for logo creation).
Default project timezone UTC "Continent/City", e.g. "Europe/Brussels" or "America/Mexico City" (see list of valid timezones)
Additional namespaces Help, Help_talk, Course, Course_talk For example, a Wikisource would need "Page", "Page talk", "Index", "Index talk", "Author", "Author talk".
Additional settings Anything else that should be set
Once settings are finalized, a committee member will submit a Phabricator task requesting creation of the wiki. (This will include everything automatically, except the additional namespaces/settings.) After the task is created, it should be linked to in a comment under "final decision" above.
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.

Proposal

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There are many people world-wide that know English, but even more which do not know English, or only have basic understanding of the language. Simple English is the best option for them, a collection of 1000 words that are used, many of them are taken by Basic English, for example you can easily look at the "simple.wikipedia.org", basically, it is made for people which are new for the English language. --SleepyMode (talk) 11:29, 26 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Note: the language code listed SIL but the link went to a description of a language from Ghana. --mikeu talk 01:21, 27 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Arguments in favor

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  1. SleepyMode (talk) 11:29, 26 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  2. Wow, this guy is organized. He's even got an example logo! Riley Huntley (talk) 11:30, 26 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  3. Why not? A Simple Wikiversity would be really useful. Reception123/Receptie123 (talk) 17:08, 26 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  4. It's worth trying in beta to see if it gains participants. If not, any content developed could be imported to en.wikiversity instead so that no effort is wasted. Dave Braunschweig (talk) 19:20, 26 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  5. I definitely express an assent; it would be impactful and for the betterment of everyone. --Huss4in (talk) 22:21, 15 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  6. Strongly Support'" It's a very good idea. A lot of people know Basic English and can't use the English Wikiversity. But a Simple Wikiversity can be so useful. Cosmopolitanist (talk) 09:14, 16 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  7. Support. Also support reopening simple.wikibooks, as simple.wp needs somewhere to dump how-to stuff, not just somewhere to dump OR. KATMAKROFAN (talk) 17:24, 9 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  8. A Trial or sorts. Test it out. see how it goes. Thats it. --Artix Kreiger (Message Wall) 20:35, 13 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Arguments against

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  1. I can find myself opposing this idea. How are we suppose to do WIkiversity Simple English when we already have content about basic English at en.wikiversity? This just seems to be useless. Are we going to simplify content that is already on Wikiversity? Why can't we hold a Simple Portal at the English Wikiversity? (you know... like a History Portal, Science Portal). Just all, in all (wrapping a sandwich with bacon), what is the whole use of this? --Atcovi (Talk - Contribs) 20:42, 26 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  2. And per what Mu301 stated, en.wikiversity's scope is broad, so there is no need to make a simple WV, as simple WQ and WB both ended up in failure. This project might end up in the same way due to the same reasons stated against keeping WQ and WB. --Atcovi (Talk - Contribs) 01:15, 27 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  3. I somewhat remember having been told not so long ago that no more simple project would be allowed, since they don't have a valid ISO code, nor they are sufficiently unique, etc. In short, while it is possible to open a request, that does not mean that the request can be approved. Maybe @MF-Warburg can clarify on this and correct me if I'm wrong. —MarcoAurelio 12:07, 27 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  4. I move that this request be placed temporarily  On hold until the outcome of Proposals for closing projects/Move Beta Wikiversity to Incubator is known. There is no point in requesting that a project be incubated on a site that faces closure. The en-wv community would welcome Simple English contributions (either temporarily until a dedicated simple project is approved by the global community or permanently if that is not the outcome of the discussion.) In the long term wikimedia needs to decide if beta: or incubator: are the best sites for developing new wikiversity languages. But, this global decision should not inhibit the development of Simple resources in the short term. I would invite interested participants to develop Simple resources on en-wv and offer any assistance in importing or migrating the content to a new site in the future if that becomes a possibility. Dialects of English such as Basic English, Special English, and Simplified Technical English are well within the scope of the English wikiversity. I would also point out that betawikiversity:Category:Simple does not currently contain significant contributions nor has it been demonstrated that there are sufficient contributors to make a dedicated site viable. I just don't (yet) see the demand for a simple.wikiversity.org project and feel that this request is premature. --mikeu talk 18:29, 5 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
    I've changed my opinion to Strong oppose due to an extreme lack of activity since January 2016. The only mainspace page is a one line definition of Simplified English. The proposer is the only contributor and has only one month of activity which occurred two years ago. The requested language is not sufficiently unique that it could not exist on a more general wiki. I encourage those interested in this proposal to contribute at en-WV where we have an active community that can foster the growth of simple learning materials. --mikeu talk 20:32, 13 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  5. This site English Wikiversity exited. Language requests on Oppose and the you close requests. --Nickeloden924 (talk) 10:04, 26 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  6. Not the same as Simple English Wikipedia. Also, it's really unnecessary. --George Ho (talk) 12:10, 8 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  7. Strong oppose Not a single simple project is needed for sharing knowledge. -- Nesmir Kudilovič (razgovor) 18:36, petak, 22. rujna 2017. (SEV)
    You just opposed it because I supported it, and I want to merge your precious be-tarask.wiki (created by Yaroslav Zoyaloratov, the same person behind the fake "Siberian" language and the [now-deleted] wiki) into be.wiki. KATMAKROFAN (talk) 03:17, 23 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  8. Strong oppose 语言不符合iso639-1或iso639-3--Assoc (talk) 02:04, 22 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]
    # Strong oppose --Assoc (talk) 02:04, 22 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]
    @Assoc: Please, do not multiple vote here, thank you. --Liuxinyu970226 (talk) 04:37, 22 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  9. Oppose because of the experiences of SimpleWQ and SimpleWB. I would support Simple contributions at EN-WV and if it becomes a significant project, I would support hiving it off as a separate wiki. Green Giant (talk) 12:44, 9 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Strong oppose No more so-called "Simple" projects. Reasons - (1) This does not meet the requirements §2 and §3 of the policy: The language must have a valid ISO 639 1–3 code, but this uses English code because it's English and does not have an own code, and The language must be sufficiently unique that it could not coexist on a more general wiki. In most cases, this excludes regional dialects and different written forms of the same language, and this thing called "Simple English" is no more than a different written form of the same language called English. (2) I don't agree with Cosmopolitanist argument: A lot of people know Basic English and can't use the English Wikiversity. But a Simple Wikiversity can be so useful. Why take away the scarce resources of other language Wikiversities to grant them to another English project? Wouldn't be better to actively support other languages' Wikiversities to develop themselves? Why as a non-English speaker would bother with learning in a "Simple English" wikiversity if I could do that in my own language and therefore understand it better? (3) This could be better addressed within a custom (name)space in English Wikiversity. --Zerabat (discusión) 14:34, 10 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Discussion

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  • Can't we just do "Simple English Wikiversity" at wikiversity itself? There is already projects about Alphabet teaching, Basic English Grammar. As well, knowing how Wikiversitys activity level is (not so active), this wiki could just be the same, or worse. This just seems useless --Atcovi (Talk - Contribs) 18:24, 26 January 2016 (UTC) Moved to arguments against, answer me there --Atcovi (Talk - Contribs) 20:43, 26 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • I am very supportive of the idea of producing resources in w:Basic English and/or w:Simplified Technical English. This could broaden the range of learning materials for Category:English as a Second Language or for use by students in Portal:Pre-school_Education and v:Portal:Primary Education. (Yes, I am politely pointing out that we are already creating resources that somewhat fall within the scope of this proposal.) I'm not clear about why a new project is needed for this. A new site would have a limited number of participants and would have less support from the strong communities that already exist and have experience adapting learning materials to a wiki environment. I'd like to see some attempt to create these resources on an existing site to demonstrate that it is insufficient to the needs of Simple resources. Personally I feel that English Wikiversity is best suited for this (while wholeheartedly admitting that I have a strong bias) as Betawikiversity: is in final stages of a discussion for closure (see Proposals for closing projects/Move Beta Wikiversity to Incubator) and Incubator: is arguably less familiar with the specific needs of a *.wikiversity as they have not yet had experience incubating such a project. I'm going to hold off voting expressing my support or opposition to the idea until I learn more about the specifics of what is proposed here. Could someone elaborate on how this differs from existing efforts within en-wv and what specific needs a new project site would satisfy that can't be met there? Is this any different from en-wv hosting w:Canadian English and w:British English resources, or fr-wv hosting w:Canadian French? I'm really keen on the idea of reaching out to these learners; I just want to do it in the most supportive way possible. --mikeu talk 20:52, 26 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
    • Developing the content at en.wv would also work, and a portal and appropriate categories and front-page signage could be created. And I would welcome that effort! But the biggest issue I see is that there aren't many current content developers at en.wv who are familiar with Basic English. The writing style there (our writing style) is mostly college-level. The typical community discussions there are also not at a Basic English level. So, whether the content is at beta or at en.wv, a community will need to be developed to support this concept and approach. I indicated support above, because I think it may be easier to build that community under the 'simple' namespace. en.wv does not currently attract those users, and for the most part never has. K-12 education uses other resources. If they're using simple.wikipedia as a resource, they may be willing to use simple.wikiversity to share their lessons. But if this initiative is not approved, I strongly encourage the participants to work with us at en.wv to develop something that will meet this need. -- Dave Braunschweig (talk) 21:38, 26 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Since when can't they share lessons here at Wikiversity? I see absolutely no point in opening up this project. Wikiversity is an opening environment, including users who aren't so proficient in English. --Atcovi (Talk - Contribs) 00:37, 27 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Launching a new simple project is not trivial. Both http://simple.wikibooks.org and http://simple.wikiquote.org failed and were closed. I wouldn't even propose creating a simple on betawikiversity: until we see the outcome of that project closing... If someone started simple resources at en-wv it could be moved to a dedicated site after success is demonstrated. Our site might currently have a focus on higher ed, but our scope has always been much broader. We have recently welcomed a contributor to help with converting a resource to English. --mikeu talk 01:07, 27 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for the support. :) --SleepyMode (talk) 11:16, 27 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Vito on IRC(Vituzzu) — The preceding unsigned comment was added by SleepyMode (talk)
(This refers to a now removed box). --MF-W 15:41, 5 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Let's laugh at pathetic excuses of "oppose" !votes. "This site English Wikiversity exited. Language requests on Oppose and the you close requests." (sic) There are Simple English versions of Wikipedia and Wiktionary. "Not the same as Simple English Wikipedia. Also, it's really unnecessary." Not an argument. "Not a single simple project is needed for sharing knowledge." HahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA KATMAKROFAN (talk) 03:21, 23 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
@KATMAKROFAN: - Typing "HAHAH" and simply saying "Not an argument" without providing any support for your stance is not only nonconstructive, but immature. Instead of "laughing" at the opposes, can you actually provide an explanation as to why you disagree with the people that opposed? Atcovi (Talk - Contribs) 14:26, 23 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Localization Status

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Already done by other projects using this language.

Ehm, afaik there is no Simple English localisation at all. --MF-W 16:01, 5 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Note: in betawikiversity:Special:Preferences and simple:Special:Preferences there is a selection for "simple - Simple English" though I admit I'm not certain what difference it makes from the "en - English" setting. --mikeu talk 18:08, 5 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I can't discern any when looking at pages with ?uselang=en vs. ?uselang=simple. There is no message file for simple in the MediaWiki source code. --MF-W 15:28, 6 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.
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