Requests for new languages/MediaWiki Russian

Russian MediaWiki.org

submitted	verification	final decision

	This proposal has been rejected. This decision was taken by the language committee in accordance with the Language proposal policy based on the discussion on this page. The closing committee member provided the following comment: MediaWiki.org is a multilingual project. No language subdomains will be created without consensus in the MediaWiki.org community to split the wiki. Please discuss there before initiating a request here. —Pathoschild 21:04:04, 04 January 2010 (UTC)

Proposal summary
Language details: Russian (русский язык or russkiy yazyk, rus ISO639-3) Editing community: Project:Translation/ru List your user name if you're interested in editing the wiki. Add "N" next to your name if you are a native speaker of this language. Relevant pages: Russian category at mediawiki.org External links:
Please read the handbook for requesters for help using this template correctly.

I propose to create different local site of MediaWiki at http://ru.mediawiki.org/, making both in the language edition of Wikipedia for more convenient work on the site (the current system requires the use of English names with postfix /ru in the categories). --Grigol 20:15, 2 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Arguments in favour

Support. Very good idea. Only the creation of Russian site on the subdomain get around existing restrictions. It will be easier for editors and for the Russian readers. --Kolwar 01:58, 4 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]
User blocked as bad-faith sockpuppet created via open proxy. --Kaganer 01:13, 6 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]
~~This site is very useful for russian translators. Maxim Dorkin 02:01, 4 January 2010 (UTC)~~[reply]
User blocked as bad-faith sockpuppet created via open proxy. --Kaganer 01:13, 6 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Agree. --Dmitri Lytov 06:03, 4 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Agree too. Atabek 06:53, 4 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Agree. --SkоrP²⁴ 11:27, 5 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Arguments against

I believe that this could be better served by a russian namespace on the existing mediawiki site or by better translation efforts on mediawiki instead of forking technical efforts. MBisanz ^talk 01:20, 4 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Agree with MBisanz. Tiptoety ^talk 05:18, 4 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Both Commons and Meta work well enough as single projects serving multiple languages. I don't see why this is a good idea. --MZMcBride 06:58, 4 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]
I agree with MZMcBride. I just don't see the need for another site. --Az1568 (talk) 07:05, 4 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]
There's no need to create a separate project. It's better to work with everything in one place. Currently there're no language sections of mediawiki.org, and that seems Ok. Wassily Steik 07:18, 4 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]
No need to create it. Meta is made to discuss global wiki problems, and there's no point to separate any special language project from it. VanHelsing.16 07:36, 4 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]
К сожалению для русских коллег, я вынужден проголосовать против. В данный момент нет никакой необходимости создавать для этого русский раздел MediaWiki. В частности, создавать отдельный проект MediaWiki для каждого существующего языка (наподобие Википедии) слишком затратно. Гораздо проще создать один проект на английском языке (который является международным) и создавать в нём подстраницы вида страница/ru. Аргументы, высказанные выше, достаточно убедительны, с ними не поспоришь. // Unfortunately for the Russian colleagues, I am compelled to vote against. At the moment there is no need to create for the MediaWiki in Russian language. In particular, to create a separate project MediaWiki for each existing language (like Wikipedia) is too expensive. It is much easier to create one project in English (which is international language) and create sub-pages in it such as page/ru. The arguments above are sufficiently convincing, I cannot argue with them. Mondalor 07:55, 4 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, - unlike Wikipedia etc. - MediaWiki is not an information project - it's a coordinating project. So any kind of separatism here would look illogically. The sense of it is to have one place for all, not a separate place for everyone. --Al Silonov 10:46, 4 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]
I think it'll be more easy to synchronize and (maintain that state) MediaWiki documentation in one site. It's technically possible to show site in language depending on user preferred language (see commons:Template:Autotranslate). And I agree with MBisanz. --EugeneZelenko 15:21, 4 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Per above. I am one from the MediaWiki admins and one of those who support the corps of Russian-language pages in this project. I see no reason why that would require a separate chapter. There is no conceptual problems with the translation (only the low activity of translators), and there is no specific "Russian" content. --Kaganer 15:44, 4 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]
(PS: I have not seen that users who supported this idea, something translating on MediaWiki.org) --Kaganer 15:51, 4 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

NOTE (en): The current system is effective for service projects, when the content is identical (a single "object for the descriptionsЭ), and the main task - the creation of multilingual documentation. Separation of the "educational projects" (Wikipedia etc.) on the language sections due to the fact that there is only partially synchronized vocabulary, and content itself sometimes quite substantially different. The existing MediaWiki.org organisation allows for actual "reference" corpus of articles in English and fill in those gaps in the texts of the translations. In addition, there are virtually no independent linguistic community of developers / editors, which would justify the division into sections. In fact - this community is united and internationally. --Kaganer 16:04, 4 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

NOTE (ru): Существующая система эффективна для сервисных проектов, когда содержимое идентично (единый объект описания), и речь идёт только о многоязычной документации. Разделение "образовательных проектов" (Википедия и другие) на языковые разделы обусловлено тем, что там частично синхронизируется только словник, а само содержание порой достаточно существенно различается. Текущая схема организации MediaWiki.org позволяет вести актуальный "референсный" корпус статей на английском и заполнять этими текстами лакуны в переводах. Кроме того, фактически отсутствуют самостоятельные языковые сообщества разработчиков/редакторов, которые оправдали бы деление по разделам. По факту - это сообщество едино и интернационально.--Kaganer 16:04, 4 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]
There are no reasons for such separation. --Rave 17:27, 4 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Agree with Mondalor and Kaganer. — putnik 05:04, 5 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Other discussion

Is this the right place to discuss this, Don't know if its this commission that should make the call. Mediawiki isn't a normal wiki, the developers make the rules what happen there and what not, is the local village pump there not a better place to discuss it? Huib talk 08:12, 4 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I propose to close this counterproductive debate. No significant argument in favour. There is no reason to discuss it, bypassing the MediaWiki.org community. --Kaganer 17:42, 4 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Ok, I proposed this idea in local community. Maxim Dorkin 21:39, 4 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]