Requests for comment/Support collaboration on Pashto Wikipedia/Requests/Seendgay

Original request

judge the knowledge of seendgay from here

seendGay! as you always force and order others to write sucha (farsi term, pashto is Nagga), now let me filter your written mistakes & junks to all:

• • پوهانانو له مخې موټک وهل روغتيا له ګټور دی.

1. wrong: پوهانان.
2. correct: پوهان.
3. wrong: له
4. correct: ته
5. wrong: دی
6. correct: دي

• • د غويي ژوند په ښوالی کې پکار راځي

1. wrong: غویي
2. correct: غوونې
3. wrong: ښوالی
4. correct: ښه والي
5. wrong: پکار
6. correct: په کار

• • د پراسټرېټ کانسر خطر کم کوي

1. wrong: پراسټریټ
2. correct: پروسټاټ (مفغنه ویيپانګه)
3. wrong: خطر (عربي)
4. correct: زیان (نګه پښتو)
5. wrong: کم (عربي)
6. correct: لږ (نګه پښتو)
7. wrong: کانسر (انګریزي، پنجابي، اردو)
8. correct: چنګاښ (نګه پښتو)

• • ساډوبي او د مازغو روغتيا لپاره ګټور وي

1. wrong: ساډوبي
2. correct: ساډوبۍ
3. wrong: مازغو
4. correct: ماغزه

• • چې کله ښځه د جامې وخت نه ور اخوا شي موټک وهل د غو ستونزو لپاره مرسته کوونکی شي

1. wrong: جامې
2. correct: could not kow what is means! even in arabic, punjabi, urdu, pashto & Farsi dic there is no word Jami (جامی). yes in Pakistani pashto Jami is called for cloths.
3. wrong: غو
4. correct: nothing found in pashto meaning ghu!
5. wrong: مرسته کوونکی
6. correct: مرستندوی

• • څوک چې څيزونه کاروي موټک وهلو کې هغوی ژوبلې دی شي

1. wrong:ژوبلې
2. correct: ژوبلېدای
3. wrong: دی
4. correct: دای

• • موټک وهنې سره يو تن روږدی يا روږدۍ هم کېدې شي

1. wrong: تن (فارسي)
2. correct: وګړی، کس
3. wrong: روږدۍ (ښځینه)
4. correct: (روږدې (ښځينه)
5. wrong: کېدې
6. correct: کېدای

Abd & Michaeldsuarez@: plz have a cloz look to the inccorrect sentences and wrong terms he used in just one so called article> more than 25 mistakes he made in his writing. he is not a writer, nor some one to understand the basic of writing skills.

عثمان منصور انصاري (talk) 18:27, 23 April 2015 (UTC)

second commment to seendgay:

mr seendgay you have to learn the basics of a language. if you dont know this, then its clear that you are not familiar to pashto language basics to read, write here in pashto wiki. most of your contributions is vulgar and vandalization in pashto wiki. and you know that most of the stewards dont know pashto, thats way you misguided them and pretend that pashto wiki users and admins are against your contribution, but we are not! your vandalization is not worthy to be discussed anymore.

now let the stewards judge your work and bring a proffissional acca accounting specialist to count your mistakes in just few (6) short sentences. if you are that full of mistakes, it means either you are trying to spreed vandalims & vulgarism or you dont have basic knowledge of pashto writing.

note: i suggest to stewards to kindly tell this seendgay to learn pashto first, then come to contribute, or if he do not listen, it will be so kind of you if you bann him from pashto wiki, cuz his hardwork!? sample is above mentioned.

regards عثمان منصور انصاري (talk) 18:27, 23 April 2015 (UTC)

User response

Dear Abd, Yes I admit I did write words in low-level Peshawar dialect. I did so because I was more busy in protecting the page then correcting the grammar. I have since rectified the page, once pointed out by Usman. To see rectification: click Seendgay (talk) 08:16, 24 April 2015 (UTC)

Discussion on ps.wiki

Is a discussion on ps.wiki necessary? This would seem to be about usable dialect there. Have standards been established by consensus? --Abd (talk) 16:13, 24 April 2015 (UTC)

Comments

• At the outset, stewards are unlikely to judge the performance of a user in a language they do not know. On major encyclopedia wikis, poor language can be a reason for warning and blocking a user. However, where a language may vary regionally, may be mixed with other languages (such as Pashto, possibly with Farsi, Urdu, or Arabic?), this could be a problem. If articles created by a user or editing by a user is at high rate, the user could be warned, but it would be better if the user's language is corrected. If the user improperly resists that, it would show up as revert warring, which can be assessed by a neutral user like a steward. This page will collect comment on this issue. My comment here is not intended to prejudice the result. The ps.wiki community may develop consensus on this, as on all issue. It is possible that it would be best done on ps.wiki, with, then a request being brought here pointing to a ps.wiki discussion showing support or opposition for a solution. --Abd (talk) 23:38, 23 April 2015 (UTC)

عثمان منصور انصاري, is there some result you are looking for? The user acknowledges the use of a "low-level dialect." I would assume, then, that the user will not object to improvement. If, however, improvement makes the page less readable for a Peshawar reader of Pashto, there might be an issue to resolve. The encyclopedia should be broadly readable, if possible. Do you agree? --Abd (talk) 16:11, 24 April 2015 (UTC)

• hi Abd! how could a PHD of Pashto literature (seengay) make such a huge number of mistakes like 50 mis in 5 sentences. its just the joke of the century that he (seengay+pashtolvoer) was in hurry to protect his page!? protect from what!? protect from corrections made by others that you have been reversed several times by you!?

every language borrow some scientific, philosophical, theological, geographical etc terms from other language, same as pashto borrowed from English in scientific subjects, Arabic in theological and religious terms, Farsi and Urdu in literature and poetry.

the only and one PHD of Pashto literature Professor Mujavir Ahmad Ziar writes in "یوه پښتو کره پښتو- پښتو لیکلارښود" that its allowed to borrow 25% terms from other languages in scientific, philosophical etc subjects, 25% from neology, 25% from simple words used in and 25% from ancient terms. this percentage is not final. he added that maybe sometime in scientific or philosophical subjects it will raise upto 40 or maybe 60.

he always revert my contribution and others too that it contains arabic terms which is an irrelevant act of seendgay!

this seendgay when came at first, had some good and useful articles, like Buddhism, budhha, etc, but now this PDH of Pashto literature turned to a sexologist PHD!? which is a wrong U-turn of him.

he always uses vulgar words such as fuck, fucking, dick, fuck in the ass, etc. this is not scientific terms abut sexology... in english wiki we have sexual intercourse, but seendgay wrote in pashto: fucking (Pashto غو یا غوونه), anal sex in en wiki, but seendgay wrote it in pashto: په کونه کې غو means: fuck in the ass, abut vagina we have it in en wiki, but seendgay wrote in ps wiki کوس which means pussy, abut penis in en wiki, but in pashto he wrote it غیڼ which means in vulgarity as dick. this is what the whole community is against him for this useless so called contribution.

even if he writes this kind of stuff in any other wiki, the whole wiki community will be against him and will be blocked in few seconds for his vulgarity behaviors.

i suggest him to come and write back in buddhist religion, in which i have a little bit study, we both will do something together... otherwise there is no place for vandalism or vulgarity in wiki projects, as we noticed that all vulgarity writing of seendgay was deleted recently by stewards, for which we are thankful to them.

at last i request him kindly to come and stand beside us to work for the betterment of pashto wiki.

no one will be hidden behind a veil for destructive aims. 20:24, 26 April 2015 — The preceding unsigned comment was added by عثمان منصور انصاري (talk)

• Thanks, Uthman Mansur. It is difficult for the world community to verify what you are claiming, but it's plausible. I see much that is hopeful in your comment. First of all, the world community can easily recognize edit warring. To handle edit warring, while at the same time seeking consensus, indef blocks should never be used, right? Rather, there are warnings (which should be supportive "guidance"), and if the warnings are disregarded, then short blocks, and only if this becomes very commonly necessary are blocks escalated in length.

With a scattered community without a single established literature, if that's the case, what is "correct" can be unclear. An encyclopedia should use what would be used academically. (But it can cover common language. (For example, see w:en:Fuck.)

Is Seendgay a "PhD in Pashto literature," or was that the claim of an upset teenager, perhaps, who, anonymous, could say anything? The user has not claimed it here. In any case, this is why encyclopedias use reliable sources, not "expert opinion."

On en.wikiversity, when we see immature editing, we guide the user to what can mature the user, since education, "learning by doing," is part of our purpose. That's more difficult on encyclopedia projects, which don't have that purpose.

However, if you want to grow the community, provide support and education, and avoid blame and rejection. Administratively, that takes firm patience.

Your offer to work together with Seendgay in certain areas is a great idea. I hope the user will take you up on it. Cooperation builds trust and expands.

The issues around articles on sex can be very difficult. There is conflict worldwide over this. In the end, what is needed is a community that develops the habit of seeking and finding consensus, not just "winning."

The world community will support using academic language, which might indeed involve Arabic terms, or the like, but we cannot ourselves make the judgment. It has to be the Pashto community, and the way the Pashto community will resolve this is by discussing it there, with civility, which will take patient forgiveness for what happened before, and reaching out and working together. Practically, how it will be expressed is by editing the articles, avoiding edit warring, but for multiple users to support a clear goal, perhaps "non-vulgar language." (This is a rough form of "majority vote." If the majority is actually seeking consensus, it works.)

In your edit summary, you had: (→no betterment of seendgay has been seen). I suggest that you apologize to Seendgay for this, because there is obvious improvement here. Above, Seendgay acknowledged using "words in low-level Peshawar dialect."

While your comments are still somewhat uncivil -- you have yourself been upset --, they also are helping get to the root of the conflict. So I see improvement for you, as well. Keep it up, and you will all do well. --Abd (talk) 15:10, 27 April 2015 (UTC)