Proposals for closing projects/Closure of Tatar Wikipedia
What should be done?
- Menu to be switched to Cyrillic
- Stop contribution using Latin orthographies
Maybe it will be better to say as follows:
- There are to be two versions of menu (Cyrillic and Latin) with Cyrillic version set by default
- Not totally prohibiting contribution using Latin orthographies designate that Cyrillic is the main script and all articles should have Cyrillic versions (if someone wants to edit in Latin or not to edit at all, I think he should be allowed to contribute).
Don Alessandro 18:55, 19 March 2008 (UTC)
- It's still debatable which version of the Latin alphabet should be used. as I'd understood Albert opposes Yanalif-Zamanalif, whereas I'm stronly oppose any Turkish-ike alphabets. However, if automatic conversation would be created, multiple variant could be supported.
- There was a such problem with asymmetric conversation for Crimean Tatar too. Is a decision of this problem found? --Untifler 20:15, 19 March 2008 (UTC)
- One of the basic principles of Wikipedia is no original research. An orthography can be used here only if it has already been widely used outside of wiki. Zamanalif is a wide spread orthography and a de facto standard for Latin written Tatar in the internet, while Turkish-like orthographies are used practically nowhere. This can be simply checked with the help of Google.
- No original research is a principle for content. Script is not original research, but original language development. Original language development can't be avoided in some languages. For example a language who never created non-literary text or even no text at all (that's most of all languages on he world) will experience development through creating a wikipedia in it in any case. Be aware, that a decision pro Cyrillic is original language development too. There are rivalling scripts for Tatar and any decision by us pro or contra one script is a statement. But the argument no original research doesn't apply here.
- If there's absolutely no way of automatic conversion that's a bit of a dilemmatic situation. --::Slomox:: >< 22:43, 20 March 2008 (UTC)
- The problem of conversation is very complex for the Tatar language, but the solution could be found. Conversation should combine as simple, as in Serbian for Tatar and ancient loans, where certain algorithm could be applied (whereas it is not a simple letter replacement). But Russian and European words, loaned via Russian are written and pronounced like in Russian, being non-convertible using this standard algorithms. This qönwertor-effect (from Cyrillic конвертор which should be konvertor or konverter in Tatar, but using automatic converter it becomes qönwerter) could be avoided using database of words with non-standard conversation. However, the number of those words outnumbers standard Tatar words, so a great work should be done. However, I think all this words also present in Russian, so a database could be compiled from all Russian word to be found at Russian wiktionary and also converted automatically, however using Russian translit conversation system. After this only few words could be converted wrong. At least, words database may be open for systops to upload some new.For example, in recent years Tatar Language adopted word summit, and in it's Latin form it was written as in English, whereas it was pronounced sammit.--Untifler 06:19, 21 March 2008 (UTC)
- I also propose special template for names, which should be converted correctly. Names of Westerners are written as in their mother languages in Tatar Latin, as well as Oriental names which are written in Arabic, should be written in Arabic. Possibly, for Arabic a special database for frequently used names and words of Arab origin could be applied.--Untifler 06:33, 21 March 2008 (UTC)
- As for language development, as it was said by Albert, the attempt of Latinization failed and Cyrillic is really used wider, especially after the language support was developed by Windows. But we really need an automatic conversion to Latin and Arabic as communities in Europe and china use it. And it still could be a font problem for some Western emigrant communities even using Cyrillic. However, I oppose the possibility of writing article in Latin just now. Multiscript templates or back conversation is more complex problem, so this possibility could be realized if required, but I think it does not required just now--Untifler 06:33, 21 March 2008 (UTC)
- i think, generally speaking, "no original research" apply here. in case of tatar language it applies. because, tatar people here think or are like think decision of tatarstan academy, tatarstan and russia governments is legitimate.--Qdinar 10:51, 30 June 2010 (UTC)
How about giving a look to other language projects whose orthography is not globally unified - like Chinese. Chinese Wikipedia offers an auto-conversion with which users can choose their preferred orthography among five ways: used in PLC, Taiwan, Hong Kong, Malaysia or Singapole. Even anons can choose it by page. Can this technology be applied for Tatar language too? --Aphaia 05:13, 21 March 2008 (UTC)
why General discussion, Situation with minor languages, Multiple accounts sections are invisible? they are visible in edit page.--Qdinar 11:03, 30 June 2010 (UTC)
What should be done?
- Absolutely no questions two versions of menu (Cyrillic and Latin) must be implemented.
- Not prohibiting contribution using any type of tatar Latin and Cyrillic (Kazan Cyrill, Kriashan etc) scripts and regional dialects (Mishar, Agidel, Siberian etc). As mentioned in this page (see above comments by member Slomox) script can not be considered as original research. Tatar Latin Internet script must be naturally developed through creating a Tatar Wikipedia.
- Cyrillic version of arcticle will be welcomed, but can not be mandatory. Significant numbers of Tatar Internet users abroad who knows only one basic latin script. We can not force those users to use unfamiliar script.
- All articles (based on used script) must be tagged to 2 major categories Latin and Cyrillic in order to see monthly trends and real usage of Latin or Cyrillic scripts.
- tt.wikipedia tatar speakers must develop more detail plan and carefully start refactoring process.
- Expectations: We do not indulge in illusions that Cyrillic script will significantly increase number of articles. There also risk we can lost latin contributors. Coriander 06:57, 25 March 2008 (UTC)