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Proposals for closing projects/Closure of Finnish Wikiquote

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Ending per #Discussion: Result: Keep

Proposal for closing Finnish Wikiquote

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We just don't have enough decent editors for watching this project. The project is vandalized heavily and used mainly for spreading political propaganda. --ML 13:02, 31 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

If you have been following the article and the conversation about it you know that the only vandal is Frank. He was aso banned for this: http://fi.wikiquote.org/w/index.php?title=Toiminnot:Log&type=block&page=K%C3%A4ytt%C3%A4j%C3%A4:Frank Maybe you are also motivated for political reasons here? --Jaakko Sivonen 13:40, 2 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Bullshit. There's only one (1) article which is now locked due to propaganda and vandalism. Nobody even noticed Wikiquote about this proposal. --83.102.20.151 13:23, 31 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
The number of locked articles is totally irrelevant here. Point is that project is so weakly supervised you can write virtually anything to it. This is seen many times. While there are couple of quite active admins, they are mostly very young of age and can deal only with the most obvious vandalism. --ML 14:01, 31 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Not true, linnea and Alfred Dengan have been reverting vandalism very well. Here is one vandal banned by Dengan: http://fi.wikiquote.org/w/index.php?title=Toiminnot:Log&type=block&page=K%C3%A4ytt%C3%A4j%C3%A4:Frank --Jaakko Sivonen 13:51, 2 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

There are currently 200 pages in fi.Wikiquote, and I think that quality of those pages are mostly good. Sure it is looking for more active users/writers and moderators, but I think those problems will be fixed with time. So I would say "No" to this proposal. --JTS 14:28, 31 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I agree with ML [1], [2], [3], [4]. 81.197.60.127 20:16, 31 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The first is fine, now that it has been protected from the banned vandal Frank. Nothing wrong with the others. Do you close a whole project because of one Frank? If you do, Frank thinks it's mission accomplished for him. --Jaakko Sivonen 13:57, 2 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I personally have found fi.wikiquote very useful, and I think there's lots of other people too who think that wikiquote has been very useful. --Shovi (fi.wikipedia)

Finnish Wikiquote has been taken over by anti-Swedish forces. Their leader [[[:q:fi:Heikki_Tala|Heikki Tala]]] wants to show "central thoughts", instead of the hate quotes he often uses. F.ex. "There is a reason to hate Sweden and the Swedish". --Frank Armoton 05:39, 2 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The thing here is that you, Frank in Finnish Wikipedia and Wikiquote, have been vandalising Heikki Tala quotes with POV, lies and advertisement: superviser Alfred Dengan agrees with this: you have been given a ban for example. Now that the page is protected, Frank is trying to destroy the whole project! That shows how far he is prepared to go: for him it's either a Svecomanic propaganda Wikiquote or no Wikiquote at all! Be reasoneble people and if you speak Finnish go see what this is about. --Jaakko Sivonen 13:31, 2 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Banned vandal Frank is lying: the quote he is talking about is in: http://fi.wikiquote.org/wiki/Heikki_Tala Frank is a vandal who is pushing his POV anti-Finnish agenda. He'd rather destroy Wikiquote than let it be neutral. --Jaakko Sivonen 14:40, 2 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
There is following quote on that page, in (bad) English: "There is a reason to hate Sweden and the Swedes, because of their rasistic attitude against their own Finnish speaking people and Finnish language and because of they are installing their own political comissar in the Finnish Educational Government to conrol the obligatory Swedish (actually used: "making to Swedes") of Finnish children." (Note: there lives approx. half a million finnish speaking people in sweden) This was the quote Frank Armoton told you is not there --Mez 15:27, 2 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

About the Tala article Frank Armoton fights for in his comment: Mr. Frank Armoton is the svecomanic pain of the quotes. He makes everything to put his political opinions to rule. He uses not original sources, but for instance links to political Internet adresses. And now he blames others here. Possibly he hopes no one will notice. It has been proved that he is wrong but that doesn't make him to give up his demands. He was also banned for some days because of these reasons. I wish wikiquotes in Finnish can continue. --Mezqui in Wiki FI / Confirming this was mine --Mez 15:27, 2 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Yes here is the ban that was given to him by superviser Alfred Dengan: "Artikkelin jatkuva palauttelu ilman kunnon perustelua" http://fi.wikiquote.org/w/index.php?title=Toiminnot:Log&type=block&page=K%C3%A4ytt%C3%A4j%C3%A4:Frank (in English: "constant reverting of the article without a proper explanation") So, Frank is a vandal according to the superviser also. --Jaakko Sivonen 13:35, 2 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]


Support closing Finnish Wikiquote (3)

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  1. close it now! --Fratele lui Bonaparte, il cunosti? 16:22, 4 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
    This user has been banned due to vandalism and trolling from meta. Just fyi. --Aphaia 08:41, 29 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  2. Problems with vandals, POV-pushers, copyright, you name it. --Jannex 19:39, 24 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  3. I agree and support the proposal to close the Finnish Wikiquote down for the following reason: it is mainly used by extreme nationalists like “Jaakko Sivonen” to spread his political propaganda. His attitudes in society include ideas of extreme nationalism. "Finn" 9 December 2006 (UTC) — The preceding unsigned comment was added by 213.114.75.212 (talk)

Oppose closing Finnish Wikiquote (34)

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  1. No to the proposal. The vandalism of Frank is now prevented in Heikki Tala quotes, so there is no reason to do something like that. Closing Wikiquote would benefit only the vandals. --Jaakko Sivonen 15:09, 2 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  2. I strongly oppose ML's proposal. I'm willing to become a moderator to help the project. Though I think right now the Finnish law seems to be a bigger hurdle than a couple of vandals. --Lumijaguaari (Neofelis Nebulosa on fi-wiki and fi-wikiquote) 00:30, 3 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  3. No for closing. I agree with Jaakko Sivonen. --JTS 18:26, 3 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  4. There's no reason to close this growing project. --Alfred Dengan 06:33, 4 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  5. No closing. Closing should only make the vandalism to a winner, as Jaakko Sivonen says. --Mez 10:24, 4 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  6. Defenite oppose. Vandalism is no reason to close it. Is it being said that if I gathered up a band of vandals and we went crazy on a slowly-growing Wikiquote, we could be victorious and get it shut down? --Gray Porpoise 19:13, 4 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  7. No, if there'll be neutral moderators in the future. Heikki Tala's central thoughts are now locked, and not what he really has said. In oppose, in the quote collection on Finnish former prime minister, Anneli Jäätteenmäki, her central thoughts are not allowed. I am not a vandal. I am not allowed now to tell the quotes in their original form. --Frank Armoton 12:38, 5 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
    :Original form? The original form of the quotes is on the page now, your "original" is based on the partial Internet address, you have not been able to show any original source at all. I did and I also delivered the source to the first published version long time ago, but you are still saying that the proved original form is not the original form, but yours unoriginal quotes are original. If you can read, you can also read on your source Internet address that the quotes there are not in original form, but in edited form. But nothing makes you to admit that. You say that "central thoughts" of A.Jäätteenmäki are not allowed. What you did add as her "central thoughts" was not quotes and you got a warning from the supervisor. Now you are telling here just an other story, an untrue story.--Mez 20:34, 5 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
    ::The quote page of Heikki Tala is taken over by his political supportes, including the only active moderator. Tala has admitted he hates Sweden, Finland-Swedish and all things compared to them. Now it is about his "central thoughts", it isn't what he has said. I will take this issue to Swedish Wikipedia, if this article is not corrected with the quotes what he really said. --Frank Armoton 13:47, 16 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  8. No, Finnish Wikiquote is an active community. I oppose the proposal! --Totuus 14:47, 5 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  9. No Why should it close it is crowing project.--Tigru 06:14, 9 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  10. Strong oppose. It is growing all the time and the proposal of ML is not true. The project has not policital propaganda and when it is vandalised, it is rollbacked quite shortly. -- 80.223.109.231 17:56, 11 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  11. Oppose closing. The site looks perfectly respectable. It contains quotes, as it should; apparently vandalism is under control. There is a significant amount of recent activity on the site. The edit summaries are generally in Finnish, apparently (not English, anyway), which is a sign of significant activity by speakers of the language. --Coppertwig 02:08, 30 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  12. Oppose of course. This is an active project. The stated reason ...and used mainly for spreading political propaganda. is just pure nonsense with no basis in reality. Routine vandalism is no reason to close down anything. jni 07:31, 3 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  13. Oppose. The project works quite well. – Nysalor 14:11, 3 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  14. I OPPOSE the idea to close down FI-wikiquote.88.114.213.85 18:06, 15 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  15. No, I like finnish wikiquotes very much. --Fuzzybyte 20:54, 15 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  16. Oppose since it's an active project and the nom seems to be in bad-faith. J.smith 00:17, 16 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  17. No--193.229.220.212 18:44, 16 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  18. No, closing would make the vandalism to a winner. Wiolet --85.194.197.161 18:23, 18 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  19. Comment: I don't see a link from the Main Page of that project to this vote. Simple English Wikiquote has a link from every page to the vote to close it down. This vote taking place in English on a hard-to-find page on Meta may be unknown to many users of the project. Could someone put in links to this vote? --Coppertwig 02:19, 3 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    I have added a big Finnish language notice to local MediaWiki:Sitenotice. That should attract people. When can we close this vote? This has been around for a nearly half a year with very few support votes (none are from active users of Finnish Wikiquote). Why should some random passers by even be allowed to vote on closing our community? jni 09:50, 15 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    I see no real reason to close this Wikiquote. (om)
  20. . Never! I am really glad to have wikiquotes available in my native language. Do not give in to the vandals.
  21. Oppose. The pages are generally good for the most part, but the real problem is vandalism and the lack of editors at the project. That really isn't grounds for closing the project. By keeping it open, we might have a few good editors who will join the site and make valued contributions. Nishkid64 16:17, 19 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  22. Policing problems? Hire more coppers. Finnish user community on other wikis seems to be healthy enough, it'd be a wonder if they couldn't get WQ fixed. --wwwwolf (barks/growls) 18:21, 19 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  23. Oppose definitely per the above. Cbrown1023 21:59, 19 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  24. No. Contains valuable information. -- anonymous 10:33, 20 January 2007 (UTC)
  25. No. 62.142.46.42 12:34, 21 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  26. Absolutely NOT--Esko-H 12:05, 22 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  27. No! There is no reason to close it. --81.197.55.167 20:42, 22 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  28. What a rubbish idea. NO! We get so much junk in Wikipedia every day too, let's close it too, shall we? Absolutely ridicolous suggestion here! 84.231.52.166 12:31, 23 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  29. Oppose --ZeiP 20:20, 23 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  30. No! Keep it going! — The preceding unsigned comment was added by 84.250.220.235 (talk)
  31. Never! It's a good project. How about closing down the en-wikiquote too? That's equally as stupid as this. And I don't have an account here, so, ask from me on one of my Wikipedia accounts to confirm this vote if you must. I'm Roosa on en-wiki, Roosaa on fi-wiki and Jack Phoenix on Wikia-projects. --80.222.235.100 13:16, 24 January 2007 (
  32. Do not close this finnish-Wikiquote, mind your own business! — The preceding unsigned comment was added by 80.95.129.145 (talk)
  33. NONONONONONO! — The preceding unsigned comment was added by 84.248.64.176 (talk)
  34. No No Never! --84.231.175.99 18:09, 28 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  35. Nope. —Ppntori 02:18, 1 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  36. Nevaeva, noup 88.207.249.112 21:53, 12 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

No way!

  1. No dont close this is the best section in wikipedia! -ola
  2. NO! This is very useful thing! --88.112.77.117 13:38, 20 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  3. Why to close? DlNh 07:42, 3 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Discussion

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May I inquire as to why there are so many IP users suddenly voting in this project closing proposal? I don't have a problem with the IPs voting, but the fact that they are not providing any reasoning besides "NO NO NO" seems a bit awkward. Nishkid64 18:15, 28 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

They started appearing after I posted a very big notice about this in Finnish Wikiquote. They are probably just semi-regular readers of fi-wq who did not bother to create an account here. Given that nobody knows how this process of closing a project should actually work I would not be overly strict over technicalities. Maybe someone will do basic sockpuppet checks like that majority of IPs does not originate from a single ISP. jni 07:39, 29 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I found there is no mention if this poll should require confirmed votes. So IP addresses are okay, while it would be still under several suspicions like sockpuppets.
This poll opens for more than three months and the ratio of voices are pro:con=10:1. The minimum term required is two weeks. No substantial discussion happened since last year. I think we can close this opinion polls. Like Polish Wikipedia poll, we could perhaps close it simply and archive? --Aphaia 04:17, 30 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Yes. — Timichal 06:52, 30 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
So the discussion and also poll is closed. Thank you for all your participation. --Aphaia 09:25, 30 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
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