Grants talk:PEG/Josh Lim/Wikistreets Project

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Thanks Josh. The project sounds excellent, but my worry here is about the number of the people participating in this project. Since you're the submitter (not Wikimedia Philippines), I suppose that you've conceived the project on your own, but it's still strange that only one person can reach the project goals working alone. On the other hand the project should end one year after it would start, so my questions are how many people you plan to work with you on the project, and is there any possibility to push it within any affiliation (i.e. Wikimedia Philippines) and to complete as soon as possible? Best regards.--Kiril Simeonovski 15:26, 17 August 2011 (UTC)

Hi Kiril. Yes, this is a personal project, and I deliberately separated this from the chapter's projects because I feel that the chapter has better projects to pursue. Plus, owing to conflict of interest, I'm not covered under the proposed microgrants scheme we're drawing up for the next year.
Anyway, Metro Manila is a pretty small place (it's only around the size of Singapore), and so I think I can achieve the minimum goals on my own. However, this project does not mean that I'm working alone: the chapter is planning a second Wikipedia Takes the City, but it will be taking place most probably while I'm in Poland, and we can include street angles in the coverage of the project, which probably can speed up this project a bit. At the same time, this being a personal project does not mean I should discount working with other people: the Filipino Wikipedia community does have a group of photographers (me being part of that group), and I can reasonably expect working with them in the long run. The only difference is in our priorities: one focuses on buildings, while another serves as the de facto photographer of the chapter, and so at least I'm filling in a gap in our coverage by focusing on roads and other transportation infrastructure, which in terms of article-writing is already my strong suit as it is.
At any rate, I hope that I was able to answer your questions, and I look forward to seeing this grant request approved. Thanks. :) --Sky Harbor (talk) 16:09, 17 August 2011 (UTC)
Oh thanks.:) You have more than enough to answer, and I must note that you should have put most of it directly in the application. As I remember this is not the first time someone to apply for a such project, and those who were funded reached their goals successfully. I have no more questions, but there are other people who may have. Best regards.--Kiril Simeonovski 17:57, 17 August 2011 (UTC)

Grants and GearEdit

I am uncomfortable with the idea of buying equipment for one specific Wikipedian, without a clear designation of ownership and commitment to the mission. Presumably, the camera Josh had lost was his own, and he is looking to use the camera bought with this prospective grant money as a replacement, i.e. as his own camera. This would not be consistent with good governance and in fact may appear to be a rather questionable use of our donor funds.

Is buying Josh a camera the best way we can achieve the goal of getting those photos? What if we can lend Josh a camera for the duration? Perhaps someone else, who does own a private camera, would be interested in this.

Do we, in fact, think that the impact and significance to our mission of this street photos project warrant spending this money? I am inclined to think there are quite a few better ways to spend a similar sum in the Philippines that would have a greater and more lasting impact on our mission there. Perhaps a grant is not the solution to the problem of the lost camera?

If WMPH feels the Wikistreets project is a significant project they would like to work on, and there's no other camera available, this grant can be rewritten as a group grant with a clear plan of how the camera is to be used, during and after the project. If not, and there's no convincing discussion here, this grant request will not be approved. Ijon 02:22, 23 August 2011 (UTC)

Hi Asaf. I was out for the last few days, so I apologize for only responding now. Anyway, I can gladly answer your concerns:
  1. I can commit the camera to the organization at the end of the project. Simply because this a personal project, it does not mean that the life of the equipment will end, and can still be used to fulfill mission objectives, whether by me or by the organization. Lending a camera is not practical: I am very uncomfortable bringing someone else's property around, especially with me leaving for Poland in around three weeks. I'm not intending to sound selfish or intending to game the system by asking for funds for this project: I believe that this project is a worthwhile activity which helps improve Wikimedia coverage of my country, even if it's a personal endeavor.
  2. The chapter is already requesting for a camera, and we will be using that for purposes parallel to this one. Again, if necessary, I can commit it to the chapter after the life of this project for the chapter's other projects.
I don't know if the chapter will commit to this project, as we are planning for a second Wikipedia Takes the City as I mentioned earlier. But I'm trusting in that we hope to use photography to improve coverage of the Philippines on Wikipedia and its sister projects, as we did with Wikipedia Takes Manila. At any rate, I hope that I was able to answer your questions, and I hope that this request will be approved. Thanks. :) --Sky Harbor (talk) 04:13, 27 August 2011 (UTC)
  • I am very sorry to hear that you've lost your camera. Regretfully, I agree with Ijon - it's hard to justify buying (an expensive) piece for equipment for an individual Wikipedian. The most controversial grant proposal we've had recently was an application to a conference grant, because some committee members felt that expenditure/value was too high. This situation is further complicated by the grantee impending move to Poland, well covered by Polish and European Wikipedians.
  • I think that we generally need to draw a line at funding equipment for personal use, the same as WMF draws a line on paying for articles: once we start doing it, no matter how worthy is the Wikipedian, it'll be hard to refuse to anybody and the resentment will be inevitable.
  • On the positive side, I know that the Polish Chapter has a good funding, they never refuse a conference grant to a conference in Poland to non-Polish citizens. May be they will consider your application although I must say that it is doubtful a professional camera you request can be funded.--Victoria 07:06, 4 September 2011 (UTC)
Hummm. Hi Josh, this is Ale from Brazil, we met a few times during ChapMeets and Wikimanias, eheh. I want to tell you it's a good idea to get grants flowing into documenting cities. But you can do better and avoid the issues Asaf appropiriately raised. First, wait until you return from Poland: your target completion date is one year from now. Then, think how you can bring non-wkimedians to work with you and by doing that get them closer to becoming wikimedians. For example, once you get the camera, every time you go out, you take somebody with you and teach them something about photography and then something about contributing to Commons and Pedia. Even if that raises the value of the gran, the return - new blood - is much greater. Then you follow up with them and document your experience. Finally, make it explicit in the proposal how the camera will have its lifespan devoted to our common mission, either by donating it to the chapter or by commiting to pass it on to whoever shall undertake further projects if you don't. Hugs, --Solstag 00:52, 7 September 2011 (UTC)


Josh has informed me he is withdrawing this request. I have accordingly removed it from the open grant requests category. Ijon 18:34, 7 September 2011 (UTC)

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