Grants talk:IEG/Learning about deletion

Notes

• I'd like to demonstrate an actual improvement for editors who play -- any ideas of how to measure that?
• Also I'd envision using game answers to help build a classifier -- e.g. to determine what's easiest and most difficult to classify.

Jodi.a.schneider (talk) 23:36, 29 September 2013 (UTC)

Feedback

Hi Jodi! Good to see you here. This looks like a good project. I've got a few pieces of feedback:

• I think this would be an interesting addition to something like the Wikipedia Adventure. But since TWA is it's own separate, grant-funded project with it's own goals and timeline, you probably shouldn't make your project contingent on it. Although there's no reason you couldn't work with the other project, presuming everyone involved thinks that's a good idea.
• In terms of measurement: you'll need to recruit people to play the game, and then come up with some way to show that they're better equipped when they're done than when they started. This may be another place where you can work with other projects (like TWA), which aim to show similar sorts of impact. You might also find inspiration by looking at some of the Editor Engagement Experiments that have been performed over the last year, which use an A/B testing methodology.

Cheers, Jtmorgan (talk) 16:03, 30 September 2013 (UTC)

Building on J-mo's feedback...Whether or not you incorporate or borrow from TWA, I'm guessing the important point to make clear for now is that you'd be planning to use the Guided Tours extension just as Ocaasi's game does. One simple way to measure impact might be to ask some en-wiki folks to include a link to your tutorial/game module in the deletion templates that confuse new folks so, and use a combo of followup surveys and edit-stalking on this group vs a control? Just a reminder that the deadline to complete a proposal for this round is today - when you've finished creating all the sections for your project, please let us know you're ready by updating your infobox to status=PROPOSED. You'll be able to continue making small adjustments to your plan during the discussion period but it is important to complete all sections of this proposal today if you'd like to be reviewed in this round (otherwise, you're also welcome to keep drafting for the spring round). Good luck! Siko (WMF) (talk) 20:25, 30 September 2013 (UTC)

Proposing this round?

Hi Jodi, just checking in again to see if you've got any plans to submit this proposal for the upcoming round (deadline to submit complete proposals is March 31). Please let me know if so, I'll make some small template updates to your page for 2014. Then, I'd suggest clicking that "finish creating proposal" button at the bottom of your proposal page to create the rest of your page and then begin filling in details about your project plan, budget, etc - we're happy to give feedback or answer questions as you continue to develop this plan, so please feel free to ask for help here :) Cheers, Siko (WMF) (talk) 00:07, 19 March 2014 (UTC)

Do you know the *next* deadline? I'm not sure whether I'll be ready before March 31st, that remains to be seen. Thanks! Jodi.a.schneider (talk) 22:01, 20 March 2014 (UTC)

Hi Jodi, we review every 6 months, so the next one would be ~September - feel free to keep drafting as long as you need :) I'd still encourage you to click the button to add the other sections soon, so that you have spaces to update your plan as you go. Also, keep in mind we do allow people to keep editing/updating their proposals during the April community comments period, so technically if you get your basic plan completed by a proposal deadline you still have some time after that to tweak details based on public input. Cheers, Siko (WMF) (talk) 23:45, 30 March 2014 (UTC)

Thanks Siko (WMF), I didn't realize that "finish" meant "add more stuff to fill in" -- I'd suggest changing the language next time (I thought that would do the proposing, which I was not ready for). Now that I understand, I've got the scaffold for the rest of the proposal. Thanks for the info on the timeline and process! Jodi.a.schneider (talk) 08:02, 31 March 2014 (UTC)

Advanced version for later: automatic feedback

Two later goals are:

1. to give automatic feedback to new Wikipedia editors who are trying to stop an article from being deleted. Real-time, in-context support would be helpful since newcomers need feedback on *what* to argue about and *how* to argue about it. In deletion discussions, editors write short, persuasive comments about whether/why an article belongs in Wikipedia.
2. to orient new editors to a safe space (e.g. TeaHouse), directly from deletion messages and deletion discussions, where appropriate.

This has broader implications for Wikipedia's sustainability -- English-language Wikipedia is losing editors faster than it can replace them. New editors whose articles are close to meeting the standards urgently need support, including a safe space for discussions and mentoring (with mentoring they could become valuable contributors more quickly, AND be supported in making mistakes). Machine support is needed because about 500 Wikipedia articles a week are discussed for deletion. With 7000 new editors a month, finding good new editors who would benefit from encouragement is important.

Potential negative consequence:

• Deletion might be slightly less personal for newcomers.

Existing materials

What I'm starting with is one corpus, annotated for the decision criteria [1] and for the arguments [2].

[1] http://jodischneider.com/pubs/wikisym2012.pdf [2] http://jodischneider.com/pubs/cscw2013.pdf

Inspiration

Inspiration from: github.com walkthroughs: https://help.github.com/articles/set-up-git

Proposal still active?

Hi Jodi, I'm checking in to see if this proposal is still active. Looks like you haven't touched it for a while. If you're not planning to propose it this round, we will mark its status WITHDRAWN next week to clear it out of the review queue - that will still allow you to work on it again at your leisure. If you are thinking of picking it back up again at any point, though, please let me know and I'll be happy to help you update the page to our new proposal format! We're also hosting a few more IEG proposal help sessions in Google Hangouts and IRC next week, so please join if you'd like to discuss further in real time. Best wishes, Siko (WMF) (talk) 20:10, 19 September 2014 (UTC)

@Siko: Correct, I'm working on other things. Thanks for having IRC sessions, it's really important to have an alternative to Google Hangouts. Jodi.a.schneider (talk) 21:25, 19 September 2014 (UTC)