< Communications committee | Subcommittees | Translation | meetings(Redirected from Communications subcommittees/Trans/meetings/2007-03)
Participants: AnyFile, britty, dungodung, GeraldM-, htchien, lahcimit, mzlla, Rbt2010, SabineCretella, schiste, Suisui, Vito-Genovese, zuirdj_away
Note "... に参加しました" means "joined ...", "... は切断しました", "... left" respectively in Japanese.
--------- meeting begins ----------------- 17:00 britty hiho AnyFile Hello all britty schiste: email@example.com britty i'll cc it by myself since wmfcc-l is modereated britty hi all 17:01 britty now it's 800 utc, so we are beginning the announced meeting britty SabineCretella: es tu la? schiste britty already sent ^^ SabineCretella good morning britty britty schiste: merci SabineCretella good morning all SabineCretella skyping britty and good evening from me 17:02 schiste morning/evening/whatever britty welcome to transcom meeting -> Pathoschild が wikimedia-translation に参加しました britty we're planning two hours chatting; first would we introduce ourselves to each other? britty just briefly 17:03 britty hi Pathoschild Pathoschild Hello. cimon Hi, I am Jussi-Ville Heiskanen from Finland... britty and known cimonavaro 17:04 britty welcome cimon britty mzlla: are you around there? cimon ...I have been translating all the articles about Finns who appear on the English wikipedia but not on the Finnish wikipedia lately... 17:05 britty thanks cimon, so you are working mainly on translations from fiwiki into enwiki? schiste Hi, i'm Christophe Henner aka schiste and I'm board member of the french chapter cimon britty: nope currently in the other direction... 17:06 schiste I'm mainly translating PR, board mails, foundation stuff, wikimania website... well everything in external and internal communication cimon just to make sure the finnish wikipedia has at least all the Finnish persons that the English wikipedia has britty cimon: :), schiste, go ahead please schiste Well I've said everything about me schiste I think 17:07 britty okay, so for my turn .... well so I begin from myself ... I'm britty on irc, aphaia on wiki and KIZU Naoko irl britty as translator mainly from en to ja, but not working much on articles lately britty as coordinator ... thank you for your help always 17:08 britty SabineCretella is skyping so later we'll catch her again: <- Pathoschild は切断しました (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) britty another it editor: anyfile? AnyFile I am from Italy, currently admin on italian wikinews 17:09 britty et attivo su wikimania sito AnyFile not expert as a translator, but I have already translated some news about wikimedia and some page about wikimani 2007 17:10 Rbt2010 の Whois 情報: n=dbl@wikimedia/Dbl2010 (DBL) Rbt2010 の参加中チャットルーム: wikimedia-translation, wikimedia Rbt2010 の使用中サーバー: irc.freenode.net (http://freenode.net/) britty Rbt2010: are you there DBL? -> adot が wikimedia-translation に参加しました 17:11 britty welcome adot britty would you introduce yourself please? adot I'm Pathoschild. britty oh thanks 17:12 britty anyone around there? britty makes a note: "and there are bots" schiste schiste !speak schiste bugged bots 17:13 adot speaks. britty LOL 17:14 adot I'm Jesse Martin (Pathoschild) of the language subcommittee. We're going to require that proposals for new language editions of existing projects be accompanied by translated MediaWiki messages in that language. That might involve a lot of translation, so I'm interested in what you do. britty thanks for your warming invitation : britty and i would like to add sabine cretella is also the chair of langcom 17:15 britty our activities are overlapped somehow... adot Yep. britty Well I always have some questions not well answered ... could you please enlight me in this occasion? adot SabineCretella: Are you around? adot Sure. britty she is skyping ... hopefully back soon SabineCretella Yes, I am around - skyiping about mediawiki localization britty with GeraldM? adot nods. 17:16 SabineCretella yes -> GerardM- が wikimedia-translation に参加しました britty back to the questions: there are three questions from me: 1) where do you find translation request and start to work? adot Hey. GerardM- .. hoi britty hey GerardM- GerardM- was talking with Sabine .. and still am 17:17 britty 1a) [[m:TR]] 1b) [[m:Translations]] 1c) other [please specify] SabineCretella translation requests - which ones? GerardM- there is now a Marathi language file in all Wikimedia Foundation projects .. britty in general SabineCretella ah ok - these two, yes britty AnyFile: in your case? SabineCretella there is the translation of the week page 17:18 britty ah ... not about articles, as for request from us/transcm schiste a) b) c)mail, website, ownwork (still speaking about communication both internal and external) britty schiste: so you mean all could be your cases? AnyFile m:TR mainly 17:19 britty AnyFile: grazie AnyFile and mailing list tranlators-l SabineCretella well: I just know the two you say - and there is a page on wikimania2007 website schiste britty, well I'm special case as long as I've totally stoped working on fr.wikipedia and spend all my time on the communication SabineCretella http://wikimania2007.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimania:Translation 17:20 britty SabineCretella: good point - anyfile where and how did you find 'mania requests? britty schiste: ah ... same to me in 204 britty 2004 schiste ^_^ 17:21 AnyFile on the page on wikimani site, but I do not rember if I came there by looking by change the wikimania site or because I read a notice on meta britty "natura de suo dicit" 17:22 AnyFile Now I remember I was involved in translation on wmania after message on wikimania mailing-list britty ah ... so from mailinglist 17:23 britty as you've known (and thanks for your comment, anyfile) we are now restructing [[m:TR]] britty I tried yesterday to include some suggested elements (not fully yet due to time limitation) britty the current one http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Aphaia/Sandbox 17:24 britty "For those who need a help" was separated into two: "Translate me" and "Instruction" britty Please review them now, and beat'em britty is the general direction okay? 17:25 britty Ask a help: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Aphaia/Sandbox/Request_submission schiste will the third part used britty Further information;: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Aphaia/Sandbox/About_submission -> htchien が wikimedia-translation に参加しました schiste I mean next to Know How britty schiste: "third pat"? schiste hi htchien britty "Know How" britty ni hao htchien! htchien hi schiste AnyFile but the main point, in my opinion, is how to acctract (or let know) people that there are thing to do on that page. As long as there is a rather consistent fracture between the project web site and the the meta/foundation web site and issue, few people will came there to help 17:26 htchien hi britty and all britty AnyFile: good point schiste Yeah it's splitted in three parts 1/For thos who need helps 2/Know How 3/ blank schiste AnyFile arf you're taking a point I wanted to raise later britty blank = "for translators"? 17:27 schiste Why not schiste or not, it's nice too like this britty in my planning it will be the equivalent of the current TR schiste ok britty it means [[m:TR]] and [[m:Translations]] will be merged into 17:28 britty literally "all translation requests" on meta schiste yep it will be better britty details will be better to discuss and be mercilessly edited, but the grand design will be "all in one" 17:29 schiste yeah, and details wil be spotted once this page will be used britty in the earliest stage it will look messy ... but anyone can edit it schiste "be bold" SabineCretella all in one is better - of course - but people need to know this and every now and then we will probably need to send out some kind of reminder to all mailing list, beer parolours etc. 17:30 schiste do you mind eif you speak about this point later ? :$ britty SabineCretella: that is: and i expect local coordinators can help this sphere greatly britty schiste: no, please do schiste Well ok now britty be bold schiste So, Currently there is a test on going on fr; schiste fr. 17:31 britty is listening to schiste <- adot は切断しました ("*poof* (to bed)") schiste I've setted up two pages first WP:Wikimedia Foundation and the second WP:Wikimedia France schiste They're workin g on the same basis britty URLs? schiste everytime I found something intersting I'm transleting it into french 17:32 schiste I copy it on the village pump schiste a mail to the local ml schiste and Link on those pages 17:33 schiste http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikip%C3%A9dia:Wikim%C3%A9dia_France britty merci beaucoup schiste http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikip%C3%A9dia:Wikim%C3%A9dia schiste they are not over 17:34 schiste Goal is to involve the community into the chapter and the foundation schiste The main problem is most of contributors, on fr., don't really see what the foundation is doing 17:35 schiste So I was thinking to name local coordinator in charge of keeping their community informed 17:36 britty language basis? schiste We really need to get communities more informed (look at the last fundraising's) schiste local one 17:37 britty schiste: what local means here? Either project basis or geographic? britty Or whatever different? schiste hmmm language britty ah thanks britty http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikip?dia:Wikim?dia/Mail_d'Erik:Wikimedia_Job:_Volunteer_Coordinator is a nice attempt 17:38 schiste Yeah all board member mails are translated schiste till the 1st january britty once jd tried to keep track of this kind of information, tech report to the foundation britty oh super > till 1st january schiste yeah he dropped 17:39 britty once jawiki had a similar page .... pickups from foundation-l, enwiki VP or meta ... britty i confess i followed it and was led to meta 17:40 AnyFile the mailing list foundaton-l have a very high trafic. What about create an foundation-announce-l ? schiste only reading? schiste or you can answer ? britty it was proposed but buried into other flames ... it is worthy to be retrieved, I think 17:41 schiste the point is there, if you can answer it will become a troll nest as foundation britty ;o britty or foundation-l / global community / meta -l? britty sorry 1) foundation-l 2) meta (= global community)-l 17:42 britty iirc the first proposal was alike schiste the point is to decide if it's a only reading AnyFile well if it is not only reading, it would became the same as foundation-l. We can thought two way, the first that the people who want to get their message posted on foundation-l make a cc to the announce list, or (better) the most important comunication ar copied there britty and there was also announce-l (read only) proposal britty so "To: f-announce-l, reply-to:trolls-l"? 17:43 schiste well it won't be usefull, as long as they can't answer, the mail will also send to foundation-l ans nobody will read f anonce schiste the point is only two king of person are readin anouncement schiste person involved schiste trolls britty schiste: i have a different idea; some jawiki users - even translators - were in trouble to follow tro^h^h^h foundation-l britty due to its huge traffic 17:44 britty for those people announce-only-l will be helpful schiste there is LSS so schiste to keep making and translating schiste but once again it has been nearly dropped britty LSS is still large in amount schiste It's only summaries AnyFile well the point is to have a way to tell involved people to follow the decision, without haveingto read all the message in the found-l 17:45 britty AnyFile: ditto schiste AnyFile I agree, totally htchien I remember there is an announce-l existed.... schiste it does schiste for wikizine britty it was taken by wikizine 17:46 britty well it was first settled to distribute quarto britty but after it was settled, quarto died out htchien so we are talking about having another new announce-l? britty or slept britty htchien: that is htchien I see. britty schiste: or i could say there are people the amount of wikizine is too much schiste a quarto have his own ml 17:47 britty there were several attempts to translate wikizine, but almost all failed schiste wikizine is not translated schiste we need both britty schiste: it was for discussions for editors schiste a way to communicate clearly and translited schiste oh britty well it is a sort of language divide I am afraid 17:48 schiste Hmm britty wikimedia project is split into: english speaking people (not even as their mother tongue) and others schiste yep britty translation is one way to redeem it schiste I'm really thinking that transcom should be the core comitte schiste e britty but if it is one sole way is totally another thing htchien It should be, since English is been used so frequently around the world.... schiste but we need to go wider than translating 17:49 britty schiste: please go ahead britty htchien: yes it is inevitable; we cannot change the world immediately schiste I think for the moment the Trans Com is too... shy schiste htchien yes BUT schiste we need to get involved every one we can schiste even non speaking person schiste we need volounteer in as much country we can 17:50 schiste dealing with press for exemple htchien I agree. britty schiste: one problem of transcom is ... we are in shortage of hand htchien smiles when see the "too...shy" words schiste britty yes for the moment schiste htchien I mean schiste I know it's a *LOT* of work britty in the beginning of this year I asked if anyone would be interested in joining us 17:51 britty no self-nomination or recommendation for others came britty is saddened schiste but if we keep just translating nobodies will join schiste nobody* 17:52 schiste did I kill everyone 17:53 britty there are two problems we face, I think ... britty as a part of comcom, transcom has its limitation britty there are things better to fit community efforts britty compare with the Walter and Wikizine case: 17:54 britty Walter is a Comcom member, but Wikizine as his publification is not officially related to Comcom britty On the contrary it is his work on an individual basis 17:55 britty We need to keep a line not to give a wrong impression a community based independent activities is that, not affliated by wmf britty thinks however a Transcom help LSS translation coordination on an individual basis will be great 17:56 britty a transcom member, i mean AnyFile even knows about LSS untill 2 days ago britty the second problem is, most of translators/coordinators are interested in their own mother tongue and only britty schiste: you spoke well about the importance of translation htchien still not know LSS yet.... 17:57 schiste schiste Well first we need member schiste s britty htchein: [[m:LSS]] schiste Let's write a mail and spam local ml britty it is worthwhile knowing schiste I mean all wikixx-l britty schiste: yep htchien thanks britty for the link 17:58 britty adds an item to her todo britty you're welcome htchien schiste did it to schiste We can do it next to this meeting if you have time britty schiste: you referred then to frwiki and your own work but you meant not only fr but general situation? 17:59 britty at least i took your words so schiste about? How much community knows about WMF? britty schiste: yep schiste All projects britty yes britty informing local projects .. with translations schiste but fr was the worst I think britty thinks however it would be better than ja 18:00 britty GerardM-: how about nl at this point? schiste (btw what languages do we have? ja. fr. zh. it. nl. ) britty there are many nl editors on foundation-l ... but how about the nlwiki in general? 18:01 SabineCretella britty are you talking about the translations for WMF here? I mean into Dutch? britty schiste: there are people not on irc britty SabineCretella: wmf matters into dutch britty either directly or through translations SabineCretella well: Gerard was never involved in this part britty not his own activities but his impression how nlwiki is knowledgeable about wmf 18:02 SabineCretella we should ask effeietsanders he seems to know britty ah good idea htchien zh is not that good, too britty SabineCretella: and how about it? SabineCretella at least he answered to the site notice thingie GerardM- Given that there are a substantial number of Dutch people in the organisation of the WMF, there is a lot of awareness britty GerardM-: you mean oscar et al? GerardM- When there are things to know about the WMF I read it in Engllish schiste We have a lot of french involved and few awarness ^^# 18:03 GerardM- Oscar, JanBart de Vreede, Galwaygirl, Effeietsanders .. GerardM- they are all in the organisation britty GerardM-: effeietsanders said the similar to me ... he was going to read en materials in general britty nods GerardM- schiste The thing different on fr. is french are lazy to read in english or find th informations GerardM- steward board special project committee 18:04 britty thought it was not since they were lazy but they would have hated english ...... britty having chapters has affected nl community also? 18:05 britty schiste: otoh you french guys have a lots of people deeply involved ... britty 18:06 schiste yep but it doesn't change a thing if you don't communicate about it schiste and I'm the only one making reports about the chapter and the foundation 18:07 britty how about things in nl, GerardM-? britty There are reports and so on? britty i mean in nl .. or most of nl people are reading en announcements? GerardM- the people that are interested know about thingd .. they read foundation-l and stuff 18:08 GerardM- the others do not know about things britty another division schiste yep britty well i meant ;( schiste ;D britty well thought experiment .... SO WHAT? GerardM- most people are just interested in the latest (local) schandal 18:09 schiste ... 18:10 britty we could say "foundation-l wouldn't help to make an encyclopedia by itself. It is only filled with flame wars on english wikipedia related materials" (comicalized) britty how do you reply, if so asked? GerardM- foundation-l is NOT avout the encyclopaedia GerardM- it is about the organisation GerardM- one of my favourite gripes 18:11 britty gripe? schiste normally yes, but still it's a wikien-l annexe htchien "For issues about the online encyclopedia, please go to wikipedia-l", is that OK? 18:12 britty htchien: theoretically yes, but if the foundatation must set up policies on that, again the topic should be back to the foundation-l, imo. britty and we have jeff merkey also ...... 18:13 schiste Hmmm what about making a "community report", we both mail it and put it on local village pump, and in this report we explain how the foundation work, where they can find information, etc... 18:14 schiste and explaining how much the transcom is usefull britty foundation activity report? schiste eurf schiste I've got a quarto nearly ready britty i think we needn't speak loudly how transcom is useful SabineCretella the problem is: we have more than 250 beer parlours ... a bot would be maybe a partly solution britty if they got translations and think it useful - so consequently .... schiste not all projects schiste but the bigger for the moment schiste like pl. etc... 18:15 schiste we can avoid en and de. they're nearly independant britty schiste: even if, still bots are helpful britty schiste: hehe schiste yep britty SabineCretella: and what will bots post? britty "translate me" - what? SabineCretella well: notes that help is needed and where to go to help 18:16 SabineCretella or a link where to read schiste nope was speaking of a report like quarto SabineCretella schiste, we do not even have time to do the ordinary stuff ... britty so there are two needs: regular report and regular call for help schiste SabineCretella to make on time we need help 18:17 britty schiste: kick up sam (sj): he seemed to revive WQ ... schiste and to ask for help we need time schiste is he? britty seemed to be interestred in britty after mike snow suggested its revival, he made some edits on [[m:WQ]] and relevant pages SabineCretella why not use wikizine and tell people to subscribe to it? britty though he is now occupied irl 18:18 schiste I've to ask Florence about it, we stopped quarto because on that time she told me the foundation was about to make one britty SabineCretella: since it is in english SabineCretella well: people can help to translate it if they have time schiste and english is evil SabineCretella but if we have too many different places it simply gets crazy britty SabineCretella: now an idea hit to me britty why we/walter asked a help to the outsider ... like proz.com 18:19 britty or translation.wikia.com schiste can we avoid wikia... britty i don't know the reason but there are some obsessive translators ... schiste Not I don't like them britty yep it will be our last resorts ... SabineCretella the problem is in the quantity britty to avoid confusions GerardM- Britty .. for you .. http://www.omegawiki.org/index.php/Expression:gripe schiste but too much confusions britty GerardM-: thanks britty schiste: yes too much perhaps 18:20 SabineCretella we already have too many different things on the to do list britty that is why i am reluctant to submit such by myself SabineCretella now if we add quarto ... it gets crazy schiste Ok schiste let's fix priorities SabineCretella also if we add wikizine it gets crazy britty SabineCretella: YES schiste what is the topes top priority britty press statement schiste ok schiste then? SabineCretella wikimania 2007 schiste then? britty and news on wmf site (news-xx) 18:21 SabineCretella are there any news for the pillars? schiste nothing intersting schiste interestin* schiste eurf britty and other contents on the wmf official website SabineCretella there was a discussion on but I did not see a "to be translated" britty like "we was audited" "plz read our financial statement" schiste I translated the whole statement in french britty ah we forgot the last one britty [[Fundraising]] 18:22 AnyFile announce the the comunities of the projects about the top most interestiong/important thing (like foundrising, wikimania, etc.). Can this be a point? schiste ... britty there are many not yet updated form schiste Ok so schiste From today we focus on Press statement and Wikimania schiste And we call for help in the maine languages britty AnyFile: announce and begging things britty schiste: that is schiste main* 18:23 britty avoids saying main ... or someone omitted will go mad schiste In order to have all statement, even old, and wikimania translated schiste and that asap <- cimon は切断しました ("I don't like you. But Bersirc 2.2 does. Try it out now. [ http://www.bersirc.org/ - Open Source IRC ]") britty schiste: not all statements but some major ones schiste How long do you think we need to translate all the PR ? 18:24 britty now sandy gives priorities .... not needed to translate and need to translate schiste britty yeah britty now there are only two .... or one britty since i think no one on the globe now think wikipedia will shut down in months britty so PR about advisory board would be one sole concern 18:25 britty i'll later talk with sandy if we can close the "wikipedia is stable" PR translation 18:26 htchien Will there be a risk to ask the outsider to help on translation? 18:27 schiste a risk ,depends on the outsider schiste a cost, perhaps 18:29 britty we can simply say "we cannot offer you any materials as reward, but full of our gratitude" britty there is few people "i am okay to help you" -> htchien_ が wikimedia-translation に参加しました britty even very few 18:30 britty SabineCretella: as for proz.com is there any possible trouble if we list ourselves as "company"? britty i think it could be beneficial for recruiting our name appears usually on their website SabineCretella well: I would say organisation - a company is commercial britty or i miss something hidden? 18:31 SabineCretella if you are listed a s a recruiting company you pay X a year britty ah i see; there are however only four classifications - translators, companies, translators&companies & others (not listed) SabineCretella I did not do thins for myself <- htchien_ は切断しました (Client Quit) britty ah no payment organizations is not possible to be credited as company, you mean SabineCretella hmmmm ... then we should ask their help-desk on how to deal with it 18:32 SabineCretella normally not britty we need to ask them SabineCretella I would ask them on how to deal with it so we are not the ones who decide britty SabineCretella: oh you would? thanks in advance 18:33 britty if you finish the cert, it will be nice also ... SabineCretella ah ... that was a misunderstanding ... OK, I will send them an e-mail and ask them to answer to firstname.lastname@example.org -> htchien_ が wikimedia-translation に参加しました SabineCretella is that list the correct one? britty "we cannot offer money, but we have one of world top brand and we can issue the certs" schiste email@example.com britty SabineCretella: firstname.lastname@example.org is our contact address as transcom britty so it's good for us 18:34 britty list is the address schiste gave 18:35 <- htchien は切断しました (Nick collision from services.) htchien_ はニックネームを htchien に変更しました SabineCretella was at the phone 18:36 britty well we spent one and a half hour already; does anyone have what to say? -> dungodung が wikimedia-translation に参加しました britty hey dungy dungodung hey everybody 18:37 htchien missed some because my ISP had dropped me out.... britty htchien: wb britty we were talking about proz.com htchien I know britty we registered as an organization to it from last year htchien just a little annoyed by the ISP 18:38 britty in my impression - wmf and translation - zh is one of very eagar communities to translate htchien yes, they are 18:39 britty what would be your motivations? htchien no much zh translators except vipuser htchien and wing britty ah and they are busy ... britty now we have alexsh but he is also busy.... htchien yup. britty btw do you know about lorenzarius? britty he left the project? 18:40 htchien I know. He is in H.K. britty yes he is in H.K. htchien No, I do not think he left. britty ah so ... i haven't seen him for months htchien But he does not answer some of the queries recently. britty no to me either htchien I guess he is also busy britty like jd? 18:41 htchien maybe htchien now really know his situation 18:42 britty ... now? schiste jd is overbusy ^_^ htchien Maybe I could help on zh translation if WMF has something to translate to let the zh community know. britty schiste: yep 18:43 britty htchien: thanks ... do you have an interest in translation in general btw? britty your coordination at 'mania website is awasome britty awesome SabineCretella sent that message to proz britty i know you are now terribly busy htchien britty I could help. britty SabineCretella: merci 18:44 britty SabineCretella: comme pensi a lui? SabineCretella chi pensa come? SabineCretella btw.: non c'è di che 18:45 britty ah ... il nostro amico chinese britty anche pense del francese 18:46 britty well ... i think i parrotted somehow ... but if schiste is right, transcom is better to become more aggressive britty i agree there are many materials need/better to be translated: but we are substancially two currently 18:47 britty sabine and me (and one another in a wikiholiday) schiste Well I'm active but only for my community for the moment schiste well really busy with french press -_- britty schiste: same for me ... at the first time schiste ^_^ britty was not busy wth press though 18:48 britty one thing we might want to think is to reorganize mail lists schiste all? like foundation-l and co ? britty once we tried to separate wikitrans for discussions/preparations and translators-l for call for translations britty some months ago 18:49 schiste or transcom ones britty schiste: yep britty the latter britty public list and private list britty can we now evaluate our current situations? schiste oh there's two lists? britty yep cabal schiste as usual britty well it is not a joke indeed ... 18:50 schiste email@example.com schiste ? britty lol britty firstname.lastname@example.org schiste sorry schiste ho schiste ok really cabalistic 18:51 britty htchien: did you read archives? Or just follows the distributions? britty schiste: it was originally a branch of more cabalistic mailinglist htchien britty mail list archives? schiste britty htchien: yes, of wikitrans 18:52 htchien britty: not yet....:( britty schiste: we two weren't accepted to the more cabalistic one ... but we need to communicate each other ... britty htchien: no prob, the latest ones reached you? 18:53 htchien britty, yes I got that reminder britty schiste: and i suppose most of wikitrans items are not interested at all "please copyedit xxx, thanks" britty htchien: hmmm did i post it to wikitrans?? 18:54 htchien britty: yes, you did. And I got it in my mailbox. britty oh britty it was not my original intention ...... htchien britty i thought i would have post it to translators-l; subject completion worked wrong or not the way I had intended 18:55 britty well most of subscribers of translators-l would read also found-l ....... britty takes a note: here is a communicatoin flow too 18:56 schiste Well see ya later I'm logging so I will read later britty bye 18:57 htchien bye schiste britty well... it is already close to two hours britty any comment? 18:58 britty ah and i must let you know: the log of this meeting will be published on meta as well as other open meeting 18:59 britty it is said already "The meeting log will be published on meta." 19:00 britty sorry to refer it lately britty and thank you for your attendance: now the meeting is over. 19:01 britty thanks all ------------ end of the meeting -------------------------