Communications/Wikimedia brands/2030 movement brand project/21 April 2020 office hours
The Wikimedia Foundation Board of trustees has resolved to pause the Movement Brand Project until March 2021. Read the full resolution on the Wikimedia Foundation Governance Wiki.
On 21 April, 2020 the Brand Team hosted online office hours with 20 attendees. The office hours were recorded and are available on Commons and YouTube. The transcript of the text chat for context is contained below. Ziko graciously provided notes on the discussion as it was happening.
During this office hours session the Brand Project team answered outstanding questions not addressed during the concept presentation due to lack of time. Questions were also fielded about the project in general asked during the session and before.
Left over from the concept presentation:
- How do we achieve consistent branding if we probably don't achieve a situation when all of us are using one brand around the world (opt-in option)?
- We now exercise big efforts to explain to everyone that Wikimedia organizations are NOT "Wikipedia editorial offices". So renaming "Wikimedia" organizations into "Wikipedia" organization will make it much harder. Don't you think trying to solve one big problem will create other big problem?
- If people reject Wikipedia altogether, what is going to change later when we will see how Wikipedia is going to be used in context?
- How much is the project/the C-team/the board ready to 'let go' community members, and/or wiki-break, of those who oppose a move to the Wikipedia brand? Some people will vote with their feet. What if some people dislike Wikipedia?
- Why is it that Wikimedia could not be included in any future proposal?
- Who sent the initial email that sparked these changes?
- If the naming convention was not already made, why the in this case deceiving name "brandingwikipedia.org" and not "brandingwikimedia.org"?
- Does Snøhetta plan to participate on-wiki, or do they see themselves exclusively participating off-wiki for this entire process?
- I think that the shift to Wikipedia Foundation limits the importance of other projects like Wikidata. What do you think?
Asked during the office hour:
- Last week, there was a statement made that "Wikimedia" was not being considered in the brand proposals. Is that still the case?
- I'm sorry if I missed this -- but how is this being shared on May 7 and how widely?
- What if (some) people dislike Wikipedia? And: will the WMF board give the community members a voice/vote? -
- How about renaming Wikipedia, so WMF can have the old name?
- It's hard to find information on Meta - many pages with confusing names. Please consider how to improve.
- How did the work between the workshops and final concept presentation happen? It appears like a black box if we can't find the information.
- How do you think that "Interconnection" adds value to who we are as a movement?
What will "Interconnection" as a central concept do going forward?
TRANSCRIPT OF CHAT
07:57 Chris Koerner: If you want to see the questions that were not answered in the concept presentation (where Elena is reading from) they can be found here: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Brand_Network#Unified_concept:_Interconnection
09:38 Ziko van Dijk: Allow me to take notes here.
09:57 Ziko van Dijk: - There is already confusion now. -
10:29 Ziko van Dijk: - Change in WM Movement will not be over night, but gradually. Not consistancy immediately, but over time. -
10:53 Zack McCune: Thanks Ziko!
11:05 Rajeeb Dutta: Hello everyone
11:14 Ziko van Dijk: :-)
11:54 Ziko van Dijk: - Should the name WP are used for elements of the movement? Confusion? -
12:10 Ziko van Dijk: - General advice was: reduce complexity / confusion. -
12:36 Sergei Rublev: Is it OK to ask questions here in chat? I have no camera and mic
12:45 Elena Lappen: Yes Sergei
12:52 Sergei Rublev: Thanks!
14:04 Ziko van Dijk: - If we take the WP name than we make sure that there is no confusion. Example: Yosemite National Park. Its has several features. There is 'Friends of YNP'; in order to differentiate them from the rangers. So: how can we use words to indicate the *correct relationship* between things. -
14:38 Anti Composite: OpenStreetMap and the OSM Foundation have a similar naming relationship, but there's only one project there. I think the problem with centering on WP is that it _also_ alienates other projects
15:03 Sergei Rublev: Is the chat logged for future references?
15:22 Rajeeb Dutta: Yes I feel
15:28 Ziko van Dijk: - Question: What if (some) people dislike Wikipedia? And: will the WMF board give the community members a voice/vote? -
16:30 Anti Composite: (I don't believe that it is logged in the same way as YouTube chat, but I don't know. Someone could copy-paste it to meta)
17:01 Elena Lappen: It would have to be copy/pasted. We will copy/paste the questions, like we did last time and if you all want to add more you can!
17:04 Sergei Rublev: Maybe a setting exists like in Youtube
17:30 Kira Wisniewski: I'm sorry if I missed this -- but how is this being shared on May 7 and how widely?
17:35 Ziko van Dijk: - WMF talked to representants of affiliates. They are very confused by branding system. They did not join the RfC. That is why we heard not enough from those who support change. We do not propose 'Wikipedia Foundation'. It is not just about giving the F. a new name. But also: parts of the movement should be all connected. -
18:17 Chris Koerner: @Kira I added your question to the queue. I'll ask Zack to remind us all of the May 7 date.
18:39 Ziko van Dijk: Sorry - I have to make more clear what is my note (and not something I said). I will use: +++
19:12 Elena Lappen: I just got a notification from Google that messages are recorded, so perhaps they will be on the side of the recording. But we will copy the questions
19:31 Christoph Jackel: How about renaming Wikipedia, so WMF can have the old name?
20:22 Chris Koerner: @Christoph I've added your question to the list.
20:27 Ziko van Dijk: +++ those who want to continue use the "wikimedia" name are allowed to do so in future. / Not every body will be happy with the solution at the end. / I hope that nobody will feel that the movement is no longer for them, if they don't like the solution. +++
21:10 Geert Van Pamel: The session is recorded, also a copy of the chat box is saved in a Google document that is available to the session co-ordinator
21:30 Rajeeb Dutta: I think we are here as we are interconnected,so let’s all work for a better solution
21:31 Ziko van Dijk: :-)
22:04 Ziko van Dijk: +++ Elena: Still question asked: why can Wikimedia not be concluded in the solution? +++
22:13 Chris Koerner: I got your earlier question in the que @Ziko
23:15 Ziko van Dijk: +++ Zack: people can keep it. But research said that WM is very confusing. Confused with WP ("Typo?"). Or understood as a project [wiki, website]. Very few people heard already about 'Wikimedia'. That is very poor after the many years the movement is using the 'Wikimedia' name. +++
23:48 Ziko van Dijk: Sorry for the confusion, Chris - I had no question, I just take notes.
24:38 Ziko van Dijk: +++ Zack: We want that people quickly understand what we stand for. Like: "Doctors without borders". The name quickly tells you who is doing what where. +++
25:15 Ziko van Dijk: +++ Elena: Another question: who started the process? / Meaning, who invented the WM name, or who started the renaming process? +++
27:34 Ziko van Dijk: +++ Zack: 2003, when sheldon rampton [?] proposed the name. it was intended to be a name for all the then new wikis. There have been several occasions when the name "WM" has been discussed on. +++
27:55 Ziko van Dijk: +++ Elena: Q, what exactly will happen on may 7th. +++
28:52 Ziko van Dijk: +++ Zack: We will publish the naming proposals. How to call the elements of the movement. Now WMF, that will be X. WMDE, that will be Y. This usergroup Women in Red, that will be Z. All in a way that everybody sees that they belong to the same naming system. +++
29:37 Kira Wisniewski: Great - but how? email? meta? etc?
30:06 Kira Wisniewski: Thanks!
30:17 Ziko van Dijk: +++ Zack: We will then accept feedback. We will publish the proposals via several channels. +++
31:02 Ziko van Dijk: +++ Elena: Some people think that the outcome is already determined. Why is that website called "wikipediabranding.org" and not "wikimediabranding.org"? +++
31:42 Ziko van Dijk: +++ Zack: The name of that site was really a mistake. We should not have done that. We did it considering people from outside of the movement. Other names could have been confusing too. +++
32:03 Ziko van Dijk: +++ Elena: About Snohetta. Are they going to participate onwiki, too? +++
34:02 Ziko van Dijk: +++ Zack: Not so much. They are design partners. We (WMF) are better in using wikis than they. There task is to have a fresh look, collect opinions and produce ideas. After May, 7th, the design of graphic elements will start. Then Snohetta will show its strengh the most. Understanding a movement such as ours, that is new for them. Everything they produce will be wikified by our team. +++
34:30 Ziko van Dijk: +++ Elena: About Wikidata: Will other wikis be limited? +++
36:07 Ziko van Dijk: (When the chat notes are saved, my comment line is cleared. Please only save after I have hit the button. :-) )
38:24 Ziko van Dijk: +++ Zack: Wikipedia name is world class. Best brand awareness among our wikis. Using it will help make other wikis more visible. Should the brand system hide the other wikis, that would be a fail. Brand example: Coca Cola company. CC is the best known of their softdrinks, but they produce many more such as Sprite, Fanta. They chose CC because it is the best known of their products. "Flagship branding system". +++
38:52 Ziko van Dijk: +++ Elena: What if change the name of the wiki Wikipedia? And then we can use the WP name for the movment. +++
41:05 Ziko van Dijk: +++ Zack: cool, but we will not support that. (Laughs.) Up to Wikipedia community. / We change so much of our products. Our brand system should be alive to, be adapted and refined all the time. Like in software production. Maybe we will have once a focus on audio, then the brand should reflect it. Focus on 3D? the same. +++
41:56 Ziko van Dijk: (Ziko here. I have thousands of quesitons, so I will be reluctant.)
42:06 Quim Gil: Thank you so much for translating to Russian!
42:07 Zack McCune: thanks Farhad!
42:11 Quim Gil: So impressive.
42:11 Zack McCune: that is so cool
42:15 Elena Lappen: Amazing!
42:19 Sergei Rublev: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Farhad_Fatkullin
42:21 Samir Elsharbaty: This is making my day, Farkhad!
42:25 Anti Composite: That's wonderful, thanks
42:27 Rajeeb Dutta: Great Farhad!!
42:41 Deb Zierten: Hi Farhad!
43:06 Essie Zar: Thanks Farhad! Hope you are well
43:12 Ziko van Dijk: I have two.
44:04 Quim Gil: More about Ziko's point: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Brand_Network#A_note_on_visibility
44:06 Samir Elsharbaty: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:2030_movement_brand_project
44:17 Samir Elsharbaty: This category may be of help!
44:18 Zack McCune: good point Ziko
44:39 Elena Lappen: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Communications/Wikimedia_brands/2030_movement_brand_project is the main project page. Great point on elevating
47:56 Rosie Stephenson-Goodknight: If I do a google search for the words -- wiki meta brand -- the top page is this: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Brand It would be good if this page had a link to Branding Project page(s).
48:24 Ziko van Dijk: +++ Elena: Zikos input, we will try to make the brand project more visible on meta. We have links to everything on the brand page on meta wiki. The initial selection of concepts started in the workshops. There were reports from the workshops. 23 concepts were distilled into a unifiying concept. There is now an online exercise about visualising concepts. After that, there will be a report on Meta Wiki.There will also be more infomration about how Snohetta arrived to "Interconnections." +++
48:44 Rajeeb Dutta: I agree with Rosie
51:22 Ziko van Dijk: +++ Zack: We wil make Meta one of the places where we will be more visible. In 2016, we revised the page. Thanks to Chris, Elena and Kim. Blackbox, Ziko: A lot of work (input and postings) were visible. All of it shared by Snohetta. That is the black box moment. We can further document it. When we will come to the naming solution: we will summarize the input from the movement, and explain our selection process. +++
51:49 Ziko van Dijk: (I agree with Rosie, the other page is less easy to find.)
52:33 Ziko van Dijk: +++ Elena: "Interconnection". Some people liked it, others less. What do you think, Zack? +++
52:34 Kira Wisniewski: I have to jump on another call. Thank you for this opportunity and for everyone's work!
52:51 Elena Lappen: Thanks Kira!
53:08 Rajeeb Dutta: Thanks Kira for joining
55:28 Ziko van Dijk: +++ Zack: There was a comment, about 'interwiki'. I think that is more about the sites. I like 'interconnection' because our projects are interreated. Our movement only thrives if it shows how the elements depend on each other. To me, "interconnection" is more a verb than a noun. A healthy movement makes new interconnections. Our movement had the growth / expansion mindset in the past 20 years. Our infrastructure can look boring, hidden. Like it is an utiliy, but there is no emotion. +++
58:00 Essie Zar: Thanks everyone! (Need to run to another meeting)
58:40 Ziko van Dijk: +++ Zack: How "interconnections" will guide the future work of the brand team? Okay. This is a design project, there will be with several design elements. Like a logo or slogan etc. We will then ask ourselves how much those elements are in line with the guiding idea "interconnections". We captured six criteria. Design choices based on: what is the essential spirit we want to show. Which one does Olympic Games have? Or NASA? It is not about rockets or astronauts. But about exploration. ...
59:21 Rajeeb Dutta: Thanks Essie
59:52 Ziko van Dijk: ... So it will be the first and the last step: who will this or that element relate to that guiding idea, "interconnections". I think it wll be easier to see it in practice, after May 7th. +++
01:00:15 Zack McCune: Thanks so much for taking notes Ziko
01:00:20 Zack McCune: Good to see you Paulina!
01:00:30 Quim Gil: Indeed, thank you so much Ziko
01:00:36 Ziko van Dijk: Your welcome. Thanks everybody!