Communication Projects Group/Meetings/2008-09-03/Log

Sep 03 20:31:41 <seanw>	Okay it's half past.
Sep 03 20:31:46 <seanw>	[20:39:38] [@ChanServ] [ cary-lunch] [ Erkan_Yilmaz] [ Martinp23 ] [ unilinky]
Sep 03 20:31:47 <seanw>	[20:39:38] [ Az1568  ] [ Danny_B   ] [ issyl0      ] [ Platonides] [ worby   ]
Sep 03 20:31:47 <seanw>	[20:39:38] [ Az1568_ ] [ elian     ] [ jayansonvv  ] [ seanw     ] [ Ziko    ]
Sep 03 20:31:54 <cary-lunch>	looks that way
Sep 03 20:31:57 <seanw>	Please indicate with a blank /me if you are here :)
Sep 03 20:32:00 *	seanw  
Sep 03 20:32:10 <jayansonvv>	did that work?
Sep 03 20:32:13 *	cary-lunch  
Sep 03 20:32:22 *	elian   
Sep 03 20:32:22 *	Az1568_  
Sep 03 20:32:25 *	worby  
Sep 03 20:32:27 <jayansonvv>	i just did it but nothing happened
Sep 03 20:32:27 <seanw>	jayansonvv, no, but nvm I can see you are here :)
Sep 03 20:32:38 <Danny_B>	my client does not support blank /me
Sep 03 20:32:40 <cary-lunch>	you might have to hit two spaces
Sep 03 20:32:40 <elian>	jayansonvv: add some spaces next time...
Sep 03 20:32:43 <Ziko>	do what?
Sep 03 20:32:51 <seanw>	Try /me<space><space><space>
Sep 03 20:32:55 *	jayansonvv   
Sep 03 20:32:56 *	Danny_B   
Sep 03 20:32:57 <jayansonvv>	I did one
Sep 03 20:32:59 <Danny_B>	yay!
Sep 03 20:33:00 <jayansonvv>	it wasn't enough
Sep 03 20:33:02 <jayansonvv>	lots rock
Sep 03 20:33:06 <Danny_B>	so did i
Sep 03 20:33:08 <seanw>	Okay looks like that's everyone who is here.
Sep 03 20:33:11 <worby>	so did I :-)
Sep 03 20:33:14 *	seanw bangs the gavel.
Sep 03 20:33:23 <seanw>	Right then.
Sep 03 20:33:28 *	agkwiki (n=agkwiki@wikipedia/AGK) has joined #wikimedia-cpg
Sep 03 20:33:29 <seanw>	So we're all here to discuss the PR cleanup project.
Sep 03 20:33:41 <seanw>	This meeting is mainly for questions to Jay about how we are going to do this.
Sep 03 20:33:42 *	cary-lunch is now known as cary-meeting
Sep 03 20:33:46 <seanw>	But Jay, want to introduce things?
Sep 03 20:34:02 <jayansonvv>	sure - and sean can can you send us the link to the meta page?
Sep 03 20:34:18 <seanw>
Sep 03 20:34:26 <jayansonvv>	I have some commitments in about 40 minutes, so I'll try to be brief
Sep 03 20:34:38 <jayansonvv>	Basically this project, stage one,  is about search search search
Sep 03 20:35:05 <jayansonvv>	We all know there are scads of pages, documents, files on the main wikis that are either doing, or trying to do some PR work
Sep 03 20:35:19 <jayansonvv>	the wikis in question: meta, WP (and other projects), and commons
Sep 03 20:35:57 <jayansonvv>	Before trying to build a structure on one of those wikis, or perhaps on the wmf wiki, where the good stuff can live we need to find everything that's out there and decide what's most valuable and important
Sep 03 20:36:02 <cary-meeting>	I believe there might exist some Wikibooks documentation as well
Sep 03 20:36:21 <jayansonvv>	to be sure, some of the 'stuff' out there is out of date, and some of it could easily be stumbled upon by well-meaning general public or media
Sep 03 20:36:25 <jayansonvv>	that's a good point, cary
Sep 03 20:36:56 *	Anthere2 ( has joined #wikimedia-cpg
Sep 03 20:37:06 <jayansonvv>	And so Sean's started this page as an area we can start listing what we're finding, but one of the bigger advantages to this work me thinks is to have people flag pages - as a step one
Sep 03 20:37:24 <seanw>	I've done a rough template on meta
Sep 03 20:37:32 <jayansonvv>	so we can find them later, wiki by wiki.  I'll stop there - maybe people have thoughts, or would you like to hear more about the 'why' of this
Sep 03 20:37:45 <seanw>	Someone brighter than me needs to add a category for that, then we can migrate to all wikis in question.
Sep 03 20:37:51 *	cary-meeting has changed the topic to: | Next meeting: Wednesday 3rd September, 20:30 UTC. | discussing
Sep 03 20:37:54 <seanw>	And link to the categories (autofilled by the template) on meta.
Sep 03 20:38:06 *	kwadhwa ( has joined #wikimedia-cpg
Sep 03 20:38:10 <jayansonvv>	cary suggested a hidden category
Sep 03 20:38:18 <worby>	makes sense
Sep 03 20:38:19 <seanw>	That's just how I personally see us doing it technically though.
Sep 03 20:38:19 <elian>	might be better to flag the talk pages
Sep 03 20:38:23 <elian>	or a hidden cat
Sep 03 20:38:32 <jayansonvv>	right - anything so we can quickly find the pages
Sep 03 20:38:33 <seanw>	Yeah actually
Sep 03 20:38:35 <elian>	as some of these pages are very public
Sep 03 20:38:45 <seanw>	Just a hidden cat and then links to those cats on our meta page would be better.
Sep 03 20:38:47 <elian>	and it looks quite unprofessional to journalists
Sep 03 20:38:48 <worby>	and reporters wont' take it seriously if they see that
Sep 03 20:38:56 <jayansonvv>	in the long term I actually think we'll want to flag ANY pr related page, just so it can be foudn. if it isn't tagged, it probably means one of us needs to know about it
Sep 03 20:39:08 <seanw>	Yeah definately.
Sep 03 20:39:08 <jayansonvv>	that's correct
Sep 03 20:39:17 <jayansonvv>	they're finding loads of stuff on WP for sure
Sep 03 20:39:37 <jayansonvv>	Part of the question, once we find everything, is what should perhaps be moved from WP to WMF wiki
Sep 03 20:39:47 <elian>	can I say something longer?
Sep 03 20:39:52 <jayansonvv>	svp
Sep 03 20:39:54 <worby>	ie. "enwp mentioned in the news" is borderline
Sep 03 20:40:09 <jayansonvv>	yes, it should be flag. ga elian
Sep 03 20:40:17 <elian>	the press pages have a clear structure
Sep 03 20:40:25 <jayansonvv>	which?
Sep 03 20:40:39 *	PrEdAtOr (i=VRS@wikimedia/Cometstyles) has joined #wikimedia-cpg
Sep 03 20:40:43 <elian>	on the local projects
Sep 03 20:40:46 <seanw>	worby, it'd be better if we had all that on meta though, or WMF wiki, in a more organised and centralised fashion. So it's under the remit of this project.
Sep 03 20:41:01 <worby>	seanw, *nod*
Sep 03 20:41:12 <jayansonvv>	yeah - and elian, some of that should stay on each project
Sep 03 20:41:12 <elian>	you have one press page as central point of contact for journalists
Sep 03 20:41:23 <elian>	with local contacts for this projects
Sep 03 20:41:26 <jayansonvv>	I'm okay with that, but we should at least track it, be able to find it, and keep it alive
Sep 03 20:41:30 <elian>	with project specific information
Sep 03 20:41:35 <jayansonvv>	precisely - that would be great for me
Sep 03 20:41:42 <elian>	and with links to the central press page on the foundation wiki
Sep 03 20:41:55 <elian>	for "official information"
Sep 03 20:41:55 <jayansonvv>	And I think I've seen mentioned on a list recently the question of chapter contacts
Sep 03 20:41:59 <worby>	but this gets to the confusing parts, we also have press contacts listed on wmfwiki
Sep 03 20:42:02 *	PrEdAtOr is now known as WaRpAtH
Sep 03 20:42:03 <Danny_B>	shouldn't there new wiki for cc/cpg/pr purposes be set to have things organized?
Sep 03 20:42:04 <Ziko>	track and collect at meta, and later have a "premium selection" on wmf. it suits to the habits of journalists to go to such a site
Sep 03 20:42:21 <seanw>	Danny_B, more wikis means more information spreading, better to keep stuff on what we have imo
Sep 03 20:42:22 <elian>	Ziko: no journalist should look at meta
Sep 03 20:42:23 <jayansonvv>	i don't think we need a new wiki. I think meta is a good place to just look at everything
Sep 03 20:42:25 <elian>	meta is a mess
Sep 03 20:42:31 <WaRpAtH>	hmm unless its foundation approved
Sep 03 20:42:35 <jayansonvv>	ziko is correct
Sep 03 20:42:38 <Ziko>	elian: that's what i said.
Sep 03 20:42:53 <Danny_B>	meta is way so messy, but as you like
Sep 03 20:43:00 <jayansonvv>	we could 'approve' things, or at least tag them so people know they're PR related but might be out of date "for the latest go to ...."
Sep 03 20:43:05 <seanw>	Meta will be slightly less messy after we've done this :)
Sep 03 20:43:06 <elian>	if you try to centralize too much, you'll get outdated information
Sep 03 20:43:09 <jayansonvv>	but it's temporary on meta
Sep 03 20:43:17 <seanw>	elian, surely it's the other way around?
Sep 03 20:43:30 <jayansonvv>	I'd like to think that down the road official 'public/media' ready information would mostly be found on WMF wiki
Sep 03 20:43:33 <Ziko>	i mean: have at wmf the premium selection for journalists. with information about how to use the material (NOT sending them to commons believing that they will learn about it)
Sep 03 20:43:35 <elian>	seanw: not if you consider that we have projects in many languages
Sep 03 20:43:39 <jayansonvv>	and on the respective chapter or project pages
Sep 03 20:43:49 <seanw>	elian, meta is multilingual though
Sep 03 20:43:57 <elian>	a press mirror about the basque wikipedia is best written on the basque wikipedia itself
Sep 03 20:44:09 <elian>	there are the people who care about...
Sep 03 20:44:13 <elian>	not on meta
Sep 03 20:44:21 <seanw>	BUt those people who care can do so on meta
Sep 03 20:44:25 <Danny_B>	did i understand correctly, that after gathering you want to migrate it to wmf wiki?
Sep 03 20:44:29 <seanw>	And then people like Jay can keep track
Sep 03 20:44:34 <elian>	they don't do. we tried in the past often enough
Sep 03 20:44:47 <Ziko>	it will be more easy for the chapters or wikipedias to search on our central meta page and take for their wikimedia.XY what they need
Sep 03 20:45:06 <seanw>	Hrm elian's right there I guess.
Sep 03 20:45:22 <jayansonvv>	mm hmm
Sep 03 20:45:46 <jayansonvv>	we tried what in the past, sorry?
Sep 03 20:45:48 <jayansonvv>	to centralize?
Sep 03 20:46:00 <elian>	yes
Sep 03 20:46:03 <seanw>	jayansonvv, yes, many many times
Sep 03 20:46:05 <jayansonvv>	i tend to agree that the best information should be kept closest to the proijects - where appropriate
Sep 03 20:46:14 <jayansonvv>	i'm less concerned about 'us' keeping it in one place
Sep 03 20:46:36 <jayansonvv>	I'm more concerned with tracking the where (keeping it limited) and comproj being a group of hawks that watch all the active pages
Sep 03 20:46:54 <Danny_B>	my opinion about the organization of gathering: let's keep in mind wmf wiki isn't publicly editable. i understood you want to gather the data on meta and then move it to wmf wiki. this doesn't seem good to me since there will be no chance to correct the data on wmf wiki ad hoc because of its lock. that's why i suggested dedicated wiki
Sep 03 20:46:58 <jayansonvv>	I'd happily link to press info about Wikiversity from the press section of wmf wiki
Sep 03 20:47:13 <cary-meeting>	Danny_B: there's a very good response to that
Sep 03 20:47:23 <jayansonvv>	yes?
Sep 03 20:47:24 <Danny_B>	also, dedicated wiki can have its own structure such as namespaces etc
Sep 03 20:47:49 <Danny_B>	extensions and other wiki settings
Sep 03 20:47:50 <jayansonvv>	I think we can work out a better solution for making WMF more editable, especially for the chapters
Sep 03 20:48:06 <elian>	we have two kind of pages to talk about: pages for the media (press) and pages for wikipedians/chapters (pr materials)
Sep 03 20:48:07 <jayansonvv>	and for people who are obvious subject matter experts
Sep 03 20:48:07 <cary-meeting>	Danny_B: More people with accounts on wmf wiki, and sighted revisions :)
Sep 03 20:48:08 <WaRpAtH>	heh, meta needs more namespaces :)
Sep 03 20:48:16 <worby>	they can still request an account, jayansonvv 
Sep 03 20:48:19 <jayansonvv>	sighted revs, a suggestion from anthere, is what makes snese
Sep 03 20:48:22 <elian>	pages for the media are best kept locally
Sep 03 20:48:23 *	cary-meeting nods at Anthere2 
Sep 03 20:48:46 <Anthere2>	bisous cary
Sep 03 20:49:04 <jayansonvv>	elian: I agree - there are two spaecs
Sep 03 20:49:08 <Danny_B>	i am not convinced on opening of foundation wiki to wider public than really necessary
Sep 03 20:49:09 <WaRpAtH>	we could test sighted revs on Meta? O_O
Sep 03 20:49:22 <worby>	WaRpAtH, no
Sep 03 20:49:24 <jayansonvv>	the 'prep' space for PR materials we should carefully manage and keep out of public access if we can - sort of like what wikinews does
Sep 03 20:49:35 <seanw>	Sighted revs on wmf sounds like a very good idea Anthere2.
Sep 03 20:49:47 <elian>	meta is good for hiding stuff from the public ;-)
Sep 03 20:49:49 <Ziko>	having a central meta page will be a good starting point. wmf will get what is suitable. besides that, the chapters can do what they want - but their work will be facilitated
Sep 03 20:49:57 <Anthere2>	worth trying imho
Sep 03 20:50:03 <jayansonvv>	I think trusting people to treat the real estate on wmf wiki as the important space is an option
Sep 03 20:50:09 <elian>	wmf could have the approved and finished materials
Sep 03 20:50:15 <jayansonvv>	that's right, the objective here is to be audience focussed
Sep 03 20:50:31 <jayansonvv>	we focus on what the readers need, the public, the media, others.
Sep 03 20:51:06 <jayansonvv>	and in the long run the major goal is to just track everything we're using, remove dated material - archive stuff that is nice but out of date, and track new pr materials
Sep 03 20:51:34 <Ziko>	right.
Sep 03 20:51:37 <elian>	jayansonvv: the problem is not only out of date stuff
Sep 03 20:51:41 <jayansonvv>	yes
Sep 03 20:51:52 <elian>	the problem is that most of the things produced are awfully bad
Sep 03 20:51:53 <seanw>	So it seems to me what we're getting at is a meta page with links on it to individual project PR stuff
Sep 03 20:51:55 <jayansonvv>	a lot of it is trademark vio, some of it is just wrong
Sep 03 20:52:00 <Danny_B>	how do you figure the structure of multiple languages/projects/issues pr pages on wmf wiki?
Sep 03 20:52:05 <seanw>	And a flow is kept up to wmf.
Sep 03 20:52:10 <Ziko>	by the way, chapters are very different. some can do very well themselves, other not, and for them it is good that there is a wmf site as a kind of default site
Sep 03 20:52:11 <jayansonvv>	danny: not sure yet
Sep 03 20:52:31 <jayansonvv>	yes - and I'm trying hard to provide great capacity to the chapters
Sep 03 20:52:35 <jayansonvv>	i'll diverge there for a second...
Sep 03 20:52:50 <jayansonvv>	we create a lot of good design files, templates etc (our business cards, for instance)
Sep 03 20:52:56 <Ziko>	at the wmf page there should be links to chapter sites - if available
Sep 03 20:53:11 <jayansonvv>	and one of my goals is to get these templates to the chapters in a way they can put them to use, and for them to share their design templates with other chapters
Sep 03 20:53:13 <Ziko>	(not only links to chapter sites, but directly to the right page)
Sep 03 20:53:35 <jayansonvv>	that will likely happen on internal because the design files are special things - and they need to be handled carefully
Sep 03 20:53:39 <worby>	like what we have already for contact us, Ziko 
Sep 03 20:53:44 *	Danny_B is systematical person and likes to think about things into details before big actions thus doesn't like speedy actions which mostly create more mess
Sep 03 20:53:47 <jayansonvv>	we already link to the chapters on wmf
Sep 03 20:54:07 <jayansonvv>	danny: I can assure you we're on the same page
Sep 03 20:54:19 <elian>	hmm
Sep 03 20:54:39 <jayansonvv>	phase 1 is find and tag
Sep 03 20:54:47 <seanw>	Okay then, if I can take the floor for a moment Jay before you have to leave.
Sep 03 20:54:54 <jayansonvv>	and extract the findings onto the meta page, if we agree on that
Sep 03 20:54:58 <jayansonvv>	please do sean
Sep 03 20:55:09 <seanw>	I think we need to set people in motion here.
Sep 03 20:55:24 *	worby nods
Sep 03 20:55:30 <seanw>	So, could someone take charge of setting up a secret category that we can copy around the wikis?
Sep 03 20:55:34 <seanw>	And then as soon as they have done that
Sep 03 20:55:47 <seanw>	We can begin the, in Jay's words, 'search search seacrh' stage of the project immeadiately.
Sep 03 20:55:54 <Danny_B>	seanw: it's not that easy as it looks
Sep 03 20:55:57 <seanw>	(I can take charge of that if no-one else wants to...)
Sep 03 20:56:02 <elian>	jayansonvv: who will create the good design files?
Sep 03 20:56:09 <Danny_B>	what do you want to put in that category?
Sep 03 20:56:11 <jayansonvv>	elian: it's already underway
Sep 03 20:56:14 <cary-meeting>	[[Category:WMF PR Materials]] ?
Sep 03 20:56:14 <unilinky>	Error: Please add a valid wiki expansion url via /msg unilinky seturl #wikimedia-cpg http://FQDN/wiki/
Sep 03 20:56:23 <elian>	jayansonvv: by whom?
Sep 03 20:56:24 <cary-meeting>	O.O
Sep 03 20:56:28 <seanw>	cary-meeting, sounds fine
Sep 03 20:56:32 <worby>	seanw, wouldn't you just have to set-up a bot that creates Category:PR_Cleanup with __HIDDENTCAT__ See [[m:PR cleanup]]?
Sep 03 20:56:33 <unilinky>	Error: Please add a valid wiki expansion url via /msg unilinky seturl #wikimedia-cpg http://FQDN/wiki/
Sep 03 20:56:38 <worby>	unilinky, shh
Sep 03 20:56:40 <cary-meeting>	I'm kicking Unilinky unless someone fixes him
Sep 03 20:56:43 *	seanw sets ban on %*!*@wikipedia/harddisk/bot/unilinky
Sep 03 20:56:44 <WaRpAtH>	kick it 9_9
Sep 03 20:56:47 <jayansonvv>	We have created WMF materials here in our office with local designers, with free-to-use templates in some cases
Sep 03 20:56:54 <seanw>	He'll shut up for the rset of the meeting.
Sep 03 20:57:07 <seanw>	worby, basically yes.
Sep 03 20:57:09 >unilinky<	seturl #wikimedia-cpg
Sep 03 20:57:17 <seanw>	worby, but I'd say let's not create globally
Sep 03 20:57:21 <seanw>	Just crteat on wikis where we need to.
Sep 03 20:57:25 <worby>	he should be fixed, btw
Sep 03 20:57:25 <seanw>	So action plan is this as I see it:
Sep 03 20:57:30 <elian>	jayansonvv: and they are finished already? then why not putting them online?
Sep 03 20:57:34 *	worby msged unilinky 
Sep 03 20:57:44 *	seanw removes ban on %*!*@wikipedia/harddisk/bot/unilinky
Sep 03 20:57:59 <jayansonvv>	elian: i'm working on it now :)  we're testing the implmentation, it's a bit of work when it comes to setting up print files
Sep 03 20:58:16 <seanw>	1) Set up hidden cat
Sep 03 20:58:35 <seanw>	2) When you go to a wiki, check if it has the cat. If not, add it, and also put a link to that wiki's main PR page on our meta page
Sep 03 20:58:40 <seanw>	3) Madly categorise all stuff
Sep 03 20:58:44 <seanw>	Sounds good?
Sep 03 20:58:56 <Danny_B>	cary-meeting, seanw: re the category name: i think you guys think too narrow in english language only here, i can tell, there are problems with this - there will be trends to rename it etc.
Sep 03 20:58:59 <worby>	yes, except most of them don't have "main PR pages" :-)
Sep 03 20:59:03 <worby>	or we couldn't be able to figure out what it is
Sep 03 20:59:17 <seanw>	worby, sure, just link to the category in that case
Sep 03 20:59:25 <Danny_B>	can we set some more international name?
Sep 03 20:59:29 <Ziko>	"wmf pr collection"?
Sep 03 20:59:32 <jayansonvv>	danny: what about just 'Communications' or 'comms'
Sep 03 20:59:40 <Danny_B>	say "WMF PR"
Sep 03 20:59:45 <Ziko>	does not exclude that there might be other
Sep 03 20:59:46 <seanw>	WMF PR sounds sensible to me.
Sep 03 20:59:50 <jayansonvv>	is comms more universal than PR?
Sep 03 20:59:57 <worby>	that's not an international name :P it's based upon the english term
Sep 03 21:00:03 <jayansonvv>	PR is a really english only term, but I'll let someoen else decide
Sep 03 21:00:04 <Danny_B>	WMF-COM if you don't like PR
Sep 03 21:00:09 <Ziko>	"comms"? never heard
Sep 03 21:00:10 <jayansonvv>	that looks better
Sep 03 21:00:18 <seanw>	I suspect we'll need to use English...
Sep 03 21:00:22 <jayansonvv>	I dunno
Sep 03 21:00:23 <seanw>	Since ComProj works in it.
Sep 03 21:00:23 <Ziko>	wmf-com sounds good
Sep 03 21:00:24 <Danny_B>	i mean, let's try to stay on ybbreviations
Sep 03 21:00:30 <jayansonvv>	yes, wmf-com works
Sep 03 21:00:31 <worby>	English is the working language of wmf anyway
Sep 03 21:00:36 <worby>	wmf-com is fine :-)
Sep 03 21:00:40 <seanw>	[[Category:WMF-Comm]]
Sep 03 21:00:41 <unilinky>
Sep 03 21:00:45 <seanw>	LIke that maybe?
Sep 03 21:00:51 <cary-meeting>	and point to a page on meta?
Sep 03 21:00:59 <Ziko>	what do you think about this? go on with it?
Sep 03 21:01:01 <seanw>	cary-meeting, yes, we'll haev a template category
Sep 03 21:01:10 <WaRpAtH>	wmf-commercial ;)
Sep 03 21:01:10 <Danny_B>	i don't think double M is necessary
Sep 03 21:01:15 <Danny_B>	yeah
Sep 03 21:01:17 <Danny_B>	exactly
Sep 03 21:01:27 <WaRpAtH>	nah ambiguous
Sep 03 21:01:28 <seanw>	Oh okay
Sep 03 21:01:28 <jayansonvv>	at least com works in french and enlish, spanish
Sep 03 21:01:29 <Danny_B>	COM is usual abbrev for communication
Sep 03 21:01:34 <jayansonvv>	correct
Sep 03 21:01:35 <seanw>	Doesn't really matter, I just like Star Trek :)
Sep 03 21:01:44 <Danny_B>	WMF-COM all capitals
Sep 03 21:01:54 <seanw>	Sounds good to me.
Sep 03 21:01:55 <WaRpAtH>	Com should be fine. double mm could mean its commercial which wikimedia is not
Sep 03 21:01:56 <Danny_B>	we can later on create backronym
Sep 03 21:02:08 *	loco085 ( has joined #wikimedia-cpg
Sep 03 21:02:09 <elian>	jayansonvv: -> query
Sep 03 21:02:09 <jayansonvv>	so folks  - will this just create a box on the page, or is cat something else
Sep 03 21:02:38 <WaRpAtH>	O_O
Sep 03 21:02:43 <seanw>	jayansonvv, no box, just hidden cat I think
Sep 03 21:02:47 <jayansonvv>	obviously it categorizes the page - it doesn't have to link back to the Meta page at this time, I think we just need to be able to find what we categroize
Sep 03 21:02:50 <worby>	nod @ sean
Sep 03 21:02:56 <jayansonvv>	i see
Sep 03 21:03:02 <seanw>	Then on meta, we have links to each category we've created
Sep 03 21:03:07 <seanw>	So there is no way of losing track.
Sep 03 21:03:10 <seanw>	In theory..
Sep 03 21:03:19 <seanw>	jayansonvv, how long have you got?
Sep 03 21:03:20 <jayansonvv>	That's a good start, as a phase 2 I'd like to actually mark each page and state we're looking at migrating or moving it etc - but we can do that later
Sep 03 21:03:21 <loco085>	hi
Sep 03 21:03:22 <elian>	and then what to do with the categorized things?
Sep 03 21:03:27 <jayansonvv>	10 more minutes
Sep 03 21:03:37 <worby>	first step is just to figure out what we have
Sep 03 21:03:40 <seanw>	elian, we worry abuot that after.
Sep 03 21:03:43 <worby>	then we can review that and figure out what we need to do with it
Sep 03 21:03:43 <elian>	mostly crap
Sep 03 21:03:43 <seanw>	It's a big enough task to find them :)
Sep 03 21:03:51 <seanw>	OKay then.
Sep 03 21:03:58 <jayansonvv>	yes it is - and it's a really significant task
Sep 03 21:04:04 <seanw>	I think we're mostly done? DO people have further questions?
Sep 03 21:04:13 <seanw>	I can summarise this plan (which I thin we have consensus for) to the ML.
Sep 03 21:04:16 <jayansonvv>	worth stressing that - it will be an extraordinary benefit to the whole organization and the projects
Sep 03 21:04:23 <elian>	and then we have to convince each project to use some central templates instead of doing things on their own
Sep 03 21:04:34 <jayansonvv>	I think that's a good point, elian
Sep 03 21:04:39 <Danny_B>	so are we set on WMF-COM? can i create it on our wikis?
Sep 03 21:04:46 *	jayansonvv claps
Sep 03 21:04:57 <jayansonvv>	(to himself, quietly)
Sep 03 21:05:00 <seanw>	Danny_B, I think so
Sep 03 21:05:02 <worby>	elian, not like that though
Sep 03 21:05:19 <worby>	not like we're taking over, we'll just watch over
Sep 03 21:05:21 <elian>	jayansonvv: can you email me some examples of the templates you have already, please?
Sep 03 21:05:27 <jayansonvv>	and/or comproj's role really becomes over-seers
Sep 03 21:05:38 <Danny_B>	ok. thanks. (btw: sorry for later responses - you guys are hella fast for me. i am not native speaker ;-))
Sep 03 21:05:41 <jayansonvv>	basically it's our business cards, elain
Sep 03 21:05:49 <Ziko>	nod @ Danny_B
Sep 03 21:05:58 <jayansonvv>	thanks for your patience, danny :)
Sep 03 21:06:00 <elian>	jayansonvv: only business cards so far?
Sep 03 21:06:07 <jayansonvv>	and letter head
Sep 03 21:06:10 <jayansonvv>	nothing exciting :)
Sep 03 21:06:13 <jayansonvv>	but it's a start
Sep 03 21:06:17 <elian>	fine, then we don't clash
Sep 03 21:06:18 <Danny_B>	i like the business card
Sep 03 21:06:31 <Danny_B>	if it's the same one robh showed on his blog
Sep 03 21:06:33 <Ziko>	if i understood it right: 1) search search search on every wiki to tag with "WMF-COM"
Sep 03 21:06:37 <jayansonvv>	how do you mean, elian?
Sep 03 21:06:38 <elian>	since I'm working in german on a leaflet series for all the projects
Sep 03 21:06:43 <Ziko>	2) create pages on Meta to bundle
Sep 03 21:06:50 <jayansonvv>	yes ziko
Sep 03 21:06:53 <Ziko>	3) chose later for WMF site and others?
Sep 03 21:06:56 <worby>	Ziko, we should start with the page already on Meta and tag those pages
Sep 03 21:07:09 <worby>	so we don't duplicate too much work :-)
Sep 03 21:07:16 <seanw>	Yes.
Sep 03 21:07:30 <Ziko>	so I e.g. will search search search at eo.WP, tag, and mention on the central page?
Sep 03 21:07:40 <jayansonvv>	this is all great - I think phase 2, when we're ready, can be to 'mark' some or all of the pages we find, and get in the habit of doing that
Sep 03 21:07:48 <seanw>	Local wiki's category should be linked on meta.
Sep 03 21:08:13 <Danny_B>	somebody with toolserver account may make some update tool for main meta page which would track through all local WMF-COM categories and link their content to the list on meta, what do you think?
Sep 03 21:08:16 <Ziko>	@seanw: meaning what?
Sep 03 21:08:30 <jayansonvv>	elian: I'd actually like to know more about that project if you've got a few moments sometime
Sep 03 21:08:31 <seanw>	Danny_B, they could, although IMO it's trivial to do by hand
Sep 03 21:08:44 <jayansonvv>	danny: sounds great
Sep 03 21:08:44 <worby>	Ziko, ie. you create [[Category:WMF-COM]] with a description and make sure it has [[m:PR cleanup]] somewhere
Sep 03 21:08:45 <unilinky>
Sep 03 21:08:45 <unilinky>
Sep 03 21:08:53 <seanw>	worby, and then
Sep 03 21:08:55 <seanw>	You put on meta
Sep 03 21:08:57 <worby>	and then on M:PR cleanup we have a link to that page
Sep 03 21:09:08 <seanw>	* [[wiki:en:Category:WMF-COM|English Wikipedia]]
Sep 03 21:09:08 <unilinky>
Sep 03 21:09:17 <elian>	jayansonvv: just ping me when you have time - best around this time (european evening)
Sep 03 21:09:26 <Ziko>	ok
Sep 03 21:09:27 <worby>	jayansonvv, btw, elian's on the Marketting subcommitte on ComCom in case you aren't familiar :-)
Sep 03 21:09:40 <jayansonvv>	yes, the marketing subcommittee...
Sep 03 21:09:46 <Ziko>	maybe the taggers need some guidance about what to tag
Sep 03 21:09:53 <jayansonvv>	yes - good point ziko
Sep 03 21:10:01 <jayansonvv>	sean - did you have thoughts, i can weigh in?
Sep 03 21:10:09 <Danny_B>	shouldn't taggers be designated?
Sep 03 21:10:16 <Ziko>	it's not about tagging everything that might have something to do with PR
Sep 03 21:10:17 <seanw>	jayansonvv, no, I think we're done tbh unless you have something to say, so go ahead
Sep 03 21:10:33 <jayansonvv>	it could be, ziko
Sep 03 21:10:34 <worby>	Danny_B, no, why?
Sep 03 21:10:43 <worby>	anyone could figure it out what needs to be tagged
Sep 03 21:10:49 <jayansonvv>	i hit it in the email, but anything looking like q/a, speaking notes, how to
Sep 03 21:11:04 <elian>	how to?
Sep 03 21:11:05 <Ziko>	designated taggers, no.
Sep 03 21:11:05 <jayansonvv>	anything press releasey, or press release design oriented, visual identity, logos, use of logos
Sep 03 21:11:09 <cary-meeting>	We need a page to link WMF-COM too explaining what it's for, right?
Sep 03 21:11:23 <worby>	cary-meeting, m:PR cleanup is not sufficient?
Sep 03 21:11:25 <cary-meeting>	right,s orry
Sep 03 21:11:27 <jayansonvv>	we could put a few words there i guess - but we want to remain kind of boring about what it is
Sep 03 21:11:36 <cary-meeting>	My client was scrolled off
Sep 03 21:11:40 <elian>	jayansonvv: that's too much
Sep 03 21:11:44 <Ziko>	sorry, it's my way to thinking first to tell people what to do before letting them do :-)
Sep 03 21:11:46 <worby>	cary-meeting, :-)
Sep 03 21:11:58 <elian>	you don't want to tag people every localized variant of the wikipedia logo
Sep 03 21:12:02 <jayansonvv>	as long as it's helpful for us if we need it
Sep 03 21:12:02 <Danny_B>	i mean i'd prefer if only certain person(s) from such wiki would do that to precede every other user from such wiki will play with that category (eg. we have two users who have really big urge to manipulate with every single category)
Sep 03 21:12:13 <elian>	they are already well organized on one page on commons
Sep 03 21:12:22 <jayansonvv>	no, but i'd like to tag the pages that have the big lists of logo use
Sep 03 21:12:39 <seanw>	We can let the wiki effect deal with that.
Sep 03 21:12:47 <seanw>	People will untag stuff that is too specific etc.
Sep 03 21:12:49 <jayansonvv>	yes - the master pages are fine imho (on commons)
Sep 03 21:13:01 <elian>	same for press release: master page is enough
Sep 03 21:13:08 <jayansonvv>	good idea. And fwiw I can skim through our first work and reflect - all of us can and should reflect on the list
Sep 03 21:13:20 <Ziko>	my alternative to that commons:press is
Sep 03 21:13:25 <Danny_B>	how about "wikipedia in the media" page?
Sep 03 21:13:36 <jayansonvv>	that's too narrow I think
Sep 03 21:13:37 <elian>	Ziko: why not update the commons:press page?
Sep 03 21:13:42 <cary-meeting>	elian: and here I've already created the Commons category :)
Sep 03 21:13:46 <cary-meeting>	indeed
Sep 03 21:13:49 <Ziko>	i found it messy
Sep 03 21:13:50 <worby>	jayansonvv, sean suggested we have a master list about that on Meta maybe
Sep 03 21:13:52 <jayansonvv>	this is about materials that work in several ways to support communications
Sep 03 21:13:55 <cary-meeting>	Ziko So fix it!
Sep 03 21:13:59 <jayansonvv>	i can help feed that list
Sep 03 21:14:00 <elian>	Ziko: it's a wiki. clean it up ;-)
Sep 03 21:14:01 <Danny_B>	that's list of every article in media which was about wikipedia
Sep 03 21:14:25 <jayansonvv>	let's overtag at this stage - is that bad?
Sep 03 21:14:33 <jayansonvv>	we can remove things later on if we need to, right
Sep 03 21:14:35 <seanw>	jayansonvv, agreed.
Sep 03 21:14:37 <seanw>	That's easier.
Sep 03 21:14:41 <Danny_B>	yeah, that's good way
Sep 03 21:14:50 <seanw>	It would be better if we can say "okay we've got everything, we can stop worrying about looking now and do stuff with it"
Sep 03 21:14:54 <jayansonvv>	and maybe we can meet again in two weeks?
Sep 03 21:14:57 <Ziko>	elian: I thought that Meta is the better place
Sep 03 21:14:57 <Danny_B>	rather cut out leftovers than miss something important
Sep 03 21:15:10 <elian>	Ziko: for journalists? no way...
Sep 03 21:15:12 <seanw>	jayansonvv, I'd say three, but yeah definately
Sep 03 21:15:15 <WaRpAtH>	Wiki-Media ;)
Sep 03 21:15:32 <Ziko>	elian: for us
Sep 03 21:15:48 <WaRpAtH>	for journalist, wmf is better ;)
Sep 03 21:15:53 <elian>	Ziko: ah, okay. that's a misunderstanding
Sep 03 21:16:18 <cary-meeting>	Commons is a great place too.  Maybe it can automatically be updated with the Meta page
Sep 03 21:16:33 <elian>	Ziko: but do we still need two picture collections?
Sep 03 21:16:33 <jayansonvv>	i have to ditch, all
Sep 03 21:16:39 <seanw>	I'd liket o close the meeting here
Sep 03 21:16:43 <seanw>	We can keep chatting about future plans
Sep 03 21:16:46 <Ziko>	elian: no
Sep 03 21:16:46 <cary-meeting>	And set out to get to work
Sep 03 21:16:47 <seanw>	But are we happy with the current action plan?
Sep 03 21:16:51 <jayansonvv>	but thank you so much for taking this on - i'll let you keep talking and look forward to the notes on the list
Sep 03 21:16:51 <worby>	yes
Sep 03 21:16:53 <jayansonvv>	Thank you!
Sep 03 21:16:56 <seanw>	I am concious that people need something to get on with.
Sep 03 21:17:00 <seanw>	Thanks Jay :)
Sep 03 21:17:15 <jayansonvv>	you guys are awesome
Sep 03 21:17:22 <Danny_B>	that was fast ;-)
Sep 03 21:17:29 <elian>	yep
Sep 03 21:17:46 *	cary-meeting is now known as cary
Sep 03 21:17:52 *	seanw bangs the gavel
Sep 03 21:17:53 <seanw>	Thanks then.
Sep 03 21:18:05 <seanw>	I'll summarise things to the list for those that cuoldn't attend shortly, once I've writetn another e-mail.