Wikinews/Future Talk/Notes

DPLs

RossKoepke: well we've seen a number of issues with DPLs
RossKoepke: 1) changing order based on last edit (we should be able to specify sort criteria)
RossKoepke: 2) caching
NGerda: Ross, 1's been fixed with 1.5
Xirzon: and maybe as noted earlier, if category=Y, add text Z for things like OR
Amgine: RossKoepke: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/DynamicPageList
Amgine: Another is that dependence on DPL also leaves articles unlinked in the database, so they all tend to be orphans.
RossKoepke: Amgine: whats the prob with orphans?

Xirzon: btw, all of you guys are smart enough to work on mediawiki especially on extension code which is very separate so please do take a look

Categories

Amgine: Okay, categories need to be reconsidered some how.

Inputboxes

Xirzon: Now, the issue here is, do we want to use this at all, and if so, how much information do we want to preload?
Xirzon: my stance is: yes, but minimize and keep templates out of it if at all possible
Xirzon: CraigSpurrier: I wouldn't mind a == Sources == heading but I'm not sure about the Template:Source template

CraigSpurrier: I like the input box but I have two issues with it. The firsat is how much is perloaded it should only have date and dev tag

Amgine: It would be really nice to have a couple of "standard" article forms from the workspace.

Pechorin: I go with Amgine on this... leave it very blank on the main page... and have a cheat sheet for people who know what they are doing

Pechorin: Xirzon, hold on.. do we wan't anything preloaded 
Xirzon: Pechorin: well, if we go from top to bottom maybe nothing will be left at the end 
Amgine: I think there are options to have preload, and not preload both, aren't there?
RossKoepke: yeah maybe we should only preload the title that they enter
RossKoepke: and a "type rough article text here and include any useful sources - rest of story will be filled out by other editors just like you"
CraigSpurrier: once we are able to stop using the dev tag we should stop preloading
Xirzon: I think we should continue to preload the date if we do want it there
RossKoepke: so maybe agree to keep Template:Develop} on preload until we deprecate it then remove it?
Xirzon: RossKoepke: yea

NGerda: but for casual readers, it may encourage them to contribute
NGerda: that's the advantage

Xirzon: but we do want a "request for help" sort of tag?
RossKoepke: Xirzon: we have RFC
RossKoepke: that seems smart
RossKoepke: if people would pay attention to them
RossKoepke: we need a better newsroom page
Xirzon: RossKoepke: I'd be in favor of merging newsroom and workspace - in my experience too many community portals don'T work well

CraigSpurrier: I like newsroom and workspace being seperate they both have diffrent uses
RossKoepke: frankly we need a better newsroom
RossKoepke: that helps us track articles progress               
Amgine: Wikinews:Newsroom                                 
RossKoepke: not like the rediculous system we had earlier 
Edbrown05: seems hard to navigate newsroom... so much whitespace   
RossKoepke: but something that at least has a box for RFC articles
RossKoepke: or maybe "needs to be done by Date/Time" boxes

Pechorin: so... did we come to any conclusions with inputbox thingy?
Xirzon: Pechorin: I don't see a consensus either way

Not using Templates

Xirzon: another option would be
Xirzon: when we deprecate Template:Develop
Xirzon: to merge  and Template:Publish
NGerda: Amgine, I still dont understand
RossKoepke: we're deprecating Template:Develop
RossKoepke: ?
Xirzon: e.g. put Template:Publish at the top
CraigSpurrier: that would be great
RossKoepke: would we also put Template:Develop ?
NGerda: Dont we want there to be a develop flag for readers?
Pechorin: Xirzon, that's probably not an option... because people still want to see the date quick, even if it never is published
Xirzon: when you're done, which inserts the date and adds category:published and category:date
Amgine: NGerda: There are several "types" of things which get done regularly. Using Ross's form of infobox is one of them.
Xirzon: Pechorin: but what date is it?

RossKoepke: yeah maybe we should only preload the title that they enter

Amgine: I think Template:Develop should be an option, especially for people who want their article worked on?
NGerda: Amgine, yes
AutisticPsycho: yes i agree with that Amgine
NGerda: Amgine, for now, it's required for Dev. stoeis
CraigSpurrier: or the Template:Rfc tag
Pechorin: Template:Develop should be a tag you can stick on your article... but not a part of publishing process
Xirzon: perhaps a separate template could be used for that
Xirzon: Template:Imdoneherepleasehelpmeout
Amgine: I mean, I personally sometimes have only time to do a half-assed job on an article.
NGerda: Amgine's saying he wants Template:Develop to be optional

Dates

Date of first development? Or date of publication? No cur. standard. UTC or local?

Amgine: <nod> Although there was a fairly large discussion, the consensus of which was not to use UTC for publication dates.

Pechorin: only thing that I am saying is that date should appear before it's published
Pechorin: one way or another
Xirzon: Pechorin: we do have dates in the history ..it's a matter of displaying them

RossKoepke: man wtf I got templates instantly. It's really not that hard for new guys. (Of course I also know how databases and PHP work...but still)
Xirzon: RossKoepke: curly braces scare people
Amgine: RossKoepke: I've had to add date templates to articles from people who have been on Wikinews more than 6 months.

Conclusion

We're leaving preload nearly empty, except for ==sources== and as an aside we're adding a new button to the edit page to add sources.

Amgine: Use == Sources==, and Xirzon will add Template:Sources button
Xirzon: erm, sort of look into it kinda sorta thing
Xirzon: we keep Template:Develop as long as we need it
Xirzon: but work towards making it optional

Source Buttons on Edit Page

<Xirzon> I'm willing to look into a toolbar button to add a ready-made  Template:Source item
<Xirzon> i.e. you click the button, it gives you Template:Source with params

Other Template Buttons?

<AutisticPsycho> I was also thinking that we should put the Wikipedia link in the toolbar 
<AutisticPsycho> or at least up top
<AutisticPsycho> becuase I got the feeling, no one will notice the w: link down below

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