WikiConference India 2020: Initial conversations/IRC Log (20 Oct 2019)
@KCVelaga
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- Though the IRC was supposed to be logged from 18:00, unfortunately we were unable to retrieve the chat before this message. During that time, Pavan Santhosh gave the attendees a general update about the conversations till now, support from individuals and communities, and state of the discussions.
18:21:10
Thanks Pavan, before I talk about the next steps involved, if anyone has any questions or comments, let us discuss them
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Tan61
18:21:51
Squiggletrotter, had a question
Saroj
18:22:02
Is Nepali Wikipedia a part of Indic Wikimedia?
Squiggletrotter
18:22:13
Which is about the next steps itself.
@KCVelaga
18:22:31
Yes, Nepali Wikimedians are welcome to participate in the conference. Yes, they are a part of Indic Wikimedia
Saroj
18:22:45
Thanks KCVelaga
@KCVelaga
18:23:03
Squiggletrotter We will first answer other questions, and then go to next steps.
@KCVelaga
18:24:13
OK, we can answer questions along-way. So the next immediate step is to do the Community Engagement Survey
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@KCVelaga
18:25:08
It includes what would communities/Wikimedians like to learn at the conference, their expectations and stuff like that. The survey results will be the base for the grant proposal
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Pavanaja
18:25:46
Before starting the initial discussions, I suggest to go through the lessons learnt from WCI 2016 Chandigarh
@KCVelaga
18:26:09
We will mostly start this in the first week of November and keep it open until the third week. The survey will be done online, and also if there any major event, we can do the consultation there as well, with the help of organisers.
@KCVelaga
18:27:32
Pavanaja Thank you, yes. We should definitely. We went through the report, and also we have had several conversations with WCI2016 organisers to make sure the mistakes are not repeated.
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Pavanaja
18:28:02
I don't think the report has documented many things, especially the lapses
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@KCVelaga
18:28:34
Ravi from his previous experience has also been giving heads-up on certain important things on the talk page.
Anant
18:28:39
Please discuss it here what mistake they made in 2016
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@KCVelaga
18:30:20
Pavanaja Yes, we also spoke in-person to learn from them. Like for example, one major lapse was having accommodation and conference venue at different places. For a big conference, this can problematic. We will make sure that they are at one place this time
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@KCVelaga
18:31:59
According the WMF grants current timeline, we should propose the grant by 2 February 2020
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:Conference
We will work on the proposal during December, and put it up for community review in January, and keep changing it according the suggestions before finalising
Jayprakash
18:32:42
KCVelaga How many participates will come? Any round number
@KCVelaga
18:33:28
Participants may be around 500, scholarships will be 100-150, exact number will decided according the budget
Pavanaja
18:35:03
Accommodation was big issue during WCI 2016. Till 10pm, we were not knowing what is going on. Finally we were taken to some hotel. Ladies were accommodated in ladies hostel. That was clearly a bit of partyiality as the hostel accommodation given to ladies was not at all on par with the hotel accommodation given to men
I hope such mistakes wont happen
Suyash_Dwivedi
18:36:03
Yes accommodation was an issue
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@KCVelaga
18:36:22
Yes definitely we will take care of this issue. Thanks for bringing it up. Accommodation and venue will be at the same place, and everyone will be given at the same place (mostly a hotel)
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Squiggletrotter
18:36:39
To clarify, it was a mishap from behalf of the partner institution. The learning from this is that accomodations in University hostels and guesthouses can be tricky so hotel can be arranged for participants instead.
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Saroj
18:36:44
What is the maximum number of scholarships for a community?
@KCVelaga
18:37:32
That is variable, there is no fixed number for now. It also depends on the community size, a large community may have more, and so
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Rajasekhar1961
18:38:43
Accommodation near the venue will solve the problem of communication and for a useful participation of the participants.
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Gramesam
18:39:09
Hello
Rajasekhar1961
18:39:49
In Hyderabad, we can get accommodation and venue, depending on the budget allocation.
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@KCVelaga
18:40:03
Rajasekhar1961 Yes, it will mostly be the same place. Because these days, in many places, including Hyderabad, if rooms and food are booked with hotel, banquet are given at free of charge. We will such facilities
We will use such facilities**
Suyash_Dwivedi
18:40:51
KCVelaga good option
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AshLin
18:41:01
Hi
@KCVelaga
18:42:04
Hello sir, we have been mainly talking about the accommodation which had been problematic during WCI2016.
So for 2020, we will be having the accommodation and the venue at the same place.
Satdeep
18:43:06
That was one big learning from WCI 2016. Don't organize such a big conference at an educational institution. They are not as professional and there is a lot of unnecessary hierarchy. Hotels is the best option, it's less stressful for organizers (who are mostly volunteers).
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Squiggletrotter
18:43:21
Agreed
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Squiggletrotter
18:43:48
To save expense a lot of unprecedented issues come up which may or may not be solved on the spot.
I guess this can be kept in mind while devising the conference budget itself
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Squiggletrotter
18:45:19
It is better to have bigger budget than to have issues in the conference later
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@KCVelaga
18:45:39
Yes, we will take think of contingencies while framing the budget. Also it will be open for community members to comment (for 2 weeks) before finalising
Pavanaja
18:45:41
If Nepal is included, what about Bhutan, Bangladesh, Maldives, Sri lanka, Pakistan (SAARC countries)?
Pranayraj
18:45:52
thank you Satdeep
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Gramesam
18:46:17
Hyderabad is a place where you have accommodation
With excellent facilities
@KCVelaga
18:47:28
Not all SAARC countries are included, but we will have a few scholarships for Nepal, Bangladesh, and Sri Lanka. We are not sure of Bhutan yet.
Pavanaja
18:48:36
If Nepal, etc., included, which is really very good, then make sure about visa formalities
How will you justify excluding Pakistan?
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Pavanaja
18:49:28
Then you will have to rename it as SAARC Conference not as Wikiconference India
Gramesam
18:49:45
How will you justify including Pakistan?
Pavanaja
18:49:59
Pakistan is part of SAARC
@KCVelaga
18:50:06
Maldives will not fit in our budget. We are not able to support Pakistan because of the several legal complications involved. Though it is unfortunate, we currently don't have the resources to deal the legalities.
Gramesam
18:50:31
Very correct
Pavanaja
18:50:41
I agree about hassles of including Pakistan. But people may question
Pavan-Santhosh
18:50:55
Pavanaja Main focus for these conference is Indian Wikimedia communities, and clearly not SAARC. Every regional specific conference will have some spill overs, as we work on languages and not regions.
@KCVelaga
18:51:19
This is India conference only, we are having Nepal, Bangladesh and Sri Lanka, because their visa policies are a bit liberal, for example, Nepalis don't need visa for India
Gramesam
18:51:21
Absolutely right
Pavanaja
18:51:33
Pavan-Santhosh Then also you can't explain fully
Pavan-Santhosh
18:51:51
We did!
Thank you
Pavanaja
18:51:54
I am not at all supporting including Pakistan, but how will you explain that?
mahir256
18:52:42
So are you expecting reduced turnout from the Bengali- and Urdu-speaking communities?
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mahir256
18:52:54
(despite the large Wikimedia communities of their speakers present in India)
@KCVelaga
18:53:39
It purely because we don't the organisational capacity to include Pakistan. MHA has imposed serious restrictions on this. I can't speak for CIS, but in an informal conversation one of them mentioned, it is tough for them to support Pakistan for now.
Pavanaja
18:54:19
I fully agree on the legal hurdles
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@KCVelaga
18:54:56
mahir256 Bangladesh is included. Urdu yes, it might only be limited to people within the country. This is unfortunate, but that is the reality.
Gramesam
18:55:10
We ourselves have good number of Bengali wiki medians in India
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Rajasekhar1961
18:57:08
What is restricting the Bengali wikipedians from participating in this Conference.
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@KCVelaga
18:58:44
There no restriction on Bengali
Pavan-Santhosh
18:58:48
To make things clear: Bengali Wikipedians from both West Bengal and Bangladesh are very part of this conference. Unfortunately we can not afford to make whole Urdu community part of this due to legal and administrative issues.
@KCVelaga
19:00:06
The issue with other countries is variable and can't say anything for sure, we will try out best
@KCVelaga
19:01:33
any other questions/concerns? About the further steps, the conference in general etc.
mahir256
19:01:36
Then I'm hoping for their sake that thorough arrangements will be made for the most stable and comprehensive remote experience possible
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Pavanaja
19:02:44
No of days?
Any pre-conf tutorial or learning days?
Rajasekhar1961
19:03:19
It is Not the Language per se; but their domiciliary status is the problem; whether they are living in India or other countries.
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@KCVelaga
19:03:46
mahir256 Yes, remote participation will be made highly accessible, as you mentioned, stable and comprehensive. We will try to live relay all the tracks, if not at least 60%, but everything will be recorded and uploaded to WCommons later
Rajasekhar1961 Yes, exactly, thank you.
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@KCVelaga
19:04:50
Pavanaja The main conference will be 3-days for sure. 2016 didn't have any such, but yes, preconference for at least 1 day is a good idea
We will include this in the survey and see people's interest. Learning days will be very useful.
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Rajasekhar1961
19:06:21
Preconference learning platform for some relatively newer wikimedians is a good idea. think about it.
IMahesh3847
19:06:37
There're a few non-Indian Wikimedians who also work primarily on Indian related articles. Are they included in?
mahir256
19:06:44
Would people not from a participating country be able to hold sessions/talks?
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@KCVelaga
19:08:13
IMahesh3847 Scholarships will be available to people from India majorly, then also Nepal, Sri Lanka and Bangladesh. We can't support other countries, even if they are working on India-related topics from the conference budget
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@KCVelaga
19:08:26
But they can participate on their own or remotely
IMahesh3847
19:08:35
@ok, thank you
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@KCVelaga
19:08:58
mahir256 yes we will keep the program open for remote sessions by people from non-participating countries
Rajeeb
19:09:17
Hello everyone, apology of being late
@KCVelaga
19:09:27
Hi Rajeeb, no problem thank you.
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Rajeeb
19:10:45
Thanks Krishna
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IMahesh3847
19:11:44
I think, it would great if a dedicated number of scholarships are reserved only for new Wikimedians. For ex: 2-3 for Wikimedians older than an year/language
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@KCVelaga
19:12:36
IMahesh3847 Yes definitely, we will have some diversity guidelines. We will include this there
Scholarships will be according to those guidelines
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Rajeeb
19:14:42
May be it has been discussed, still I like to point out one thing, how can we reward foreign participants for e.g. participants from Bangladesh who are integral part of Bangla Community
@KCVelaga
19:15:44
Yes, we discussed this. Apart from India, we will have Nepal, Bangladesh, and Sri Lanka. We won't be able to support Pakistan due to legal complications involved
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Rajeeb
19:17:03
ok that's sounds good.
@KCVelaga
19:18:22
any other questions?
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Satdeep
19:18:36
For context, we did send invitation letters to certain Wikimedians from Pakistan during WCI 2016 but all of them got their visas rejected.
@KCVelaga
19:19:36
OK
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Pavanaja
19:19:53
Are there Indic Wikipedians in Maldives? Just curious to know
@KCVelaga
19:20:11
But was there any common reason stated for rejection Satdeep?
Satdeep
19:20:27
Pavanaja I am pretty sure, No.
Squiggletrotter
19:21:10
How can we get involved? Will there be invitation for volunteers for support roles for the conference?
mahir256
19:21:15
At this point is there any specific overarching theme for the conference, or certain projects which will be promoted more than others?
@KCVelaga
19:23:13
No nothing yet, that will be based on the survey results.
Manav
19:24:31
KCVelaga I received a call from embassy. The reason for rejection was that we didnt inform the embassy or the govt about this conference or took permission
Satdeep
19:24:43
KCVelaga: The main reason I think was that we didn't have clearance from the Ministry of External Affairs to invite international delegates (We were just lucky with delegates from Bangladesh and Sri Lanka attending on tourist visa). Things are stricter now, I have heard.
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Manav
19:25:06
+1 Satdeep
@KCVelaga
19:25:12
Squiggletrotter Only the Local Organising Team will be from Andhra and Telangana, the rest of the teams such as scholarships, program, communications etc. will include people from all communities.
Manav
19:25:19
They even do random checks to make sure verything is in compliance
Rajeeb
19:26:13
very true
@KCVelaga
19:26:28
Once the grant funding decision is out, there will be a call for organisers. Interested people can join then.
Manav Yes, we will keep that in mind.
mahir256
19:27:28
What sorts of procedures are needed from External Affairs for conference clearance? Starting every workshop/session with the national anthem? 😆
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Ananth
19:29:21
its problem if people from different countries take part in a conference with a travel visa. So to the conference visa we need to contact External Affairs.
@KCVelaga
19:29:24
mahir256 😆
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@KCVelaga
19:30:40
https://conference.mha.gov.in/FAQ.aspx there is this page which has the info, we will work with organisational partners for invitation letters and stuff
mahir256
19:31:12
And yet folks from Bangladesh and Sri Lanka got away with using tourist visas last time. What of them this time around?
Chaduvari
19:31:24
Okay guya, gotta go. Adios.
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Satdeep
19:31:51
mahir256 Things are stricter now.
Suyash_Dwivedi
19:32:14
Hmmm...
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Gopala
19:32:15
Better to apply for permission?
Satdeep
19:32:29
Yes. We need to figure out the process.
Manav
19:32:36
it will be easier for CIS to get the permission
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Manav
19:33:00
they will anyways be the fiscal sponsors
Ananth
19:33:02
to avoid any problems during or after the conference it will be good if we take the permission from the Govt. Now a days its very strict than before.
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mahir256
19:33:47
What about those from countries eligible for the eVisa (such as the US)?
Pavan-Santhosh
19:33:52
Manav I believe WCI team will figure these things out and even that will help remaining conferences happening
Ananth
19:34:03
last year when CIS had applied for this, it took around 10-11 months to complete the procedure.
Shypoetess
19:34:23
KCVelaga Satdeep Manav Were there any other issues apart from accommodation, venue and visa?
Manav
19:34:31
Well we are planning one before WCI
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Pavan-Santhosh
19:34:47
Yes Manav, true.
@KCVelaga
19:34:49
mahir256 I didn't get you. We can't fund them obviously
Manav
19:34:52
Shypoetess.. Finance
hehehe
audit
Suyash_Dwivedi
19:35:02
Hehe
Ananth
19:35:14
mahir256 this applies for all the people taking part in the conference. it can be any country.
@KCVelaga
19:35:21
Please limit the conversations to WCI only, not other conferences
Manav
19:35:35
who is talking about other conferences?
Im not
Satdeep
19:35:40
Manav That was just humongous but not something that went wrong.
Shypoetess
19:35:41
Manav I've heard about that but the procedural issues were resolved I guess
Manav
19:35:43
Finances of WCI
@KCVelaga
19:36:02
mahir256 please elaborate your question
Satdeep
19:36:06
Okay. Coming back to the point.
mahir256
19:36:27
KCVelaga I think Ananth covered it
@KCVelaga
19:36:44
OK
Satdeep
19:36:46
Ananth Can you figure out the entire process and let everyone know in a week or two? Do we need to finalize the list of participants from other countries, in advance and any other things?
Manav
19:37:08
Satdeep: Not getting the funds in time is fdifferent from handling finances
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Rajeeb
19:38:11
I agree with Satdeep we need to chalk out the list of participants from other countries
Ananth
19:38:34
as per my understandings we should provide the Name of applicant but will get to know the entire procedure soon and update you all.
Shypoetess
19:38:41
+1 That can make the process of visa clearance easier
@KCVelaga
19:39:29
Anyway, we will start an official conversation with soon formally, and figure these details
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Suyash_Dwivedi
19:40:04
List of possible pariciping countries
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@KCVelaga
19:40:43
There is scholarships available to India obviously, and Nepal, Sri Lanka and Bangladesh in addition.
Ananth
19:41:49
Are we inviting people from Pakistan?
@KCVelaga
19:41:55
No
Not from the official conference budget
We still need to figure those details
Shypoetess
19:43:19
I'll have to sign off now. Good Night Everyone
Pavan-Santhosh
19:43:49
Hi @Ananth This was discussed and clarified with much details, already. Please go through the discussion once we publish it.
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Ananth
19:44:32
Sorry for missing the earlier part. Thanks for the clarification.
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mahir256
19:45:51
Would you sponsor visas for people located outside South Asia, even if you do not provide other financial support?
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Manav
19:46:11
Ideally it shouldnt
@KCVelaga
19:46:15
So we have around 15 min left before closing the discussion. If anyone has missed any points, we will publish the log on meta, and share. If there are any other questions apart from the ones already discussed, please do ask them.
Satdeep
19:46:18
I will take leave now. I am really glad that Telugu Wikimedians has taken lead on this. I once again promise full support in my volunteer capacity.
@KCVelaga
19:46:27
@mahi
mahir256 do you mean like invitation letters ?
Pranayraj
19:47:15
Satdeep
mahir256
19:47:15
I guess, assuming that those people could not attend the conference on an eVisa
Rajeeb
19:47:24
count me in any volunteer work anytime, anywhere
Rajasekhar1961
19:47:29
Thank you very much Satdeep
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Pranayraj
19:47:55
Rajeeb
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@KCVelaga
19:48:28
mahir256 Yes, we will provide such support.
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@KCVelaga
19:49:39
We will have more clarity regarding participants from outside India in the coming couple of months. As of now, these details are very much uncertain.
Manav
19:49:49
What!! KCVelaga...But what's the point of keeping scholarships open for international delegates?
@KCVelaga
19:51:05
Manav Not scholarships, but we will provide support for visas, like invitation letter
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Manav
19:51:38
okkay
@KCVelaga
19:54:20
Roughly five more minutes left
Rajeeb
19:54:36
Are we planning a cultural tour for participants before the conference day or may be on the last day of the conference to see our rich cultural heritage.
Gopala
19:54:49
Are you planning to take sponsorships other than WMF?
@KCVelaga
19:55:15
Rajeeb probably yes, Program will be based on the Community Engagement Survey that is going to be conducted next month
Manav
19:55:15
Rajeeb.. lets be very careful about this... the cultural crawl at wikimania this year wasnt appreciated coz of many reasons
Pranayraj
19:55:18
Sure Rajeeb
Manav
19:55:24
people objected to the idea of having it
Rajeeb
19:55:57
oh really Manav, what went wrong?
Manav
19:56:09
post conference is good for people who r extending their stay or last day
@KCVelaga
19:56:23
Gopala yes, we will definitely try for non-WMF sponsors. Education institutions from Andhra and Telagana, especially Engineering college, would be happy to do such sponsorships
Manav
19:56:28
Yes, actually this time it was planned parallel to the learning days
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Gopala
19:56:59
KCVelaga Thank you
Akbarali
19:57:09
finished?
@KCVelaga
19:57:13
Rajeeb Manav This will be based on the survey results, whether to have such tours or not
Rajeeb
19:57:19
or even can we organise cultural events either in the campus or nearby auditorium
@KCVelaga
19:57:37
Akbarali almost
Rajeeb
19:57:50
oh ok Manav
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Rajeeb
19:58:09
I
Akbarali
19:58:13
I could come only now . UAE time 6.30
@KCVelaga
19:58:49
Akbarali no problem thanks for coming we will publish the discussion on Meta-Wiki soon, and share with the community.
Rajeeb
19:58:59
I really enjoyed the cultural event in SAARC Educational Conference
Akbarali
19:59:04
KCVelaga thank you
Manav
19:59:19
bye everyone
Jayprakash
19:59:22
Goodnight everyone
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Rajeeb
19:59:33
Bye Bye thanks everyone
Manav
19:59:34
count me in for any support...would love to help.
@KCVelaga
19:59:44
Two minutes left .... final remarks, thank you everyone for participating, it was a very fruitful discussion.
Pavan-Santhosh
19:59:44
Thanks everyone for joining and also for support offered.
Manav
19:59:52
Thank you Telugu friends for proposing WCI
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Mallikarjuna
20:00:06
Thanks
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Rajeeb
20:00:07
Looking to be counted for any volunteering!!
@KCVelaga
20:00:08
If anyone is interested to receive regular updates, please add yourself here, https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Global_message_delivery/Targets/WCI2020, if you are not already there
Rajeeb
20:00:31
Thanks KCVelaga
@KCVelaga
20:00:37
This is the link https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Global_message_delivery/Targets/WCI2020
The above one is faulty
Suyash_Dwivedi
20:00:55
👍
Gopala
20:00:57
Hey I need to go now. I believe this meeting gonna end soon. Will be happy for any support in my capacity. Thanks everyone Good night.
@KCVelaga
20:01:24
thanks again, the discussion ends now.
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Rajeeb
20:02:04
Good night everyone!!
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Saroj
20:02:25
Good Night! Best wishes to Telugu Wikimedians
Rajasekhar1961
20:02:55
Good night; Thank you very much for all the Indic wikimedians for supporting the Telugu community.
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