Talk:Wikipedia logo in each language/Archives/2004

Misc

Thanks for the new logos.

Some remarks however: some languages have last letter of "wikipedia" in big size; others don't.

The ones that don't are errors. I'll fix them. Thanks for pointing it out

I don't know how a native speaker feels about it, but the cyrillic letter "d" looks odd to me; like if it doesn't fit weel with the times-like style of the other letters

I used a font called Warnock Pro that has Cyrillic characters. I agree it has a little difference from other дs I've seen. I'll check out some other fonts, but I don't think Adobe would release a font designed for body text use with characters that look very strange.

the shape of the letter is not incorrect, it just feels strange with the other letters (that triangular "d" looks more like a Century Gothic-style; while other letters, and the font used in latin script, is more like Times)

OK, I found Warnock Pro has a glyph variant that has the non-triangle д. I'll use that instead.

I'm not sure that the ligature-like of "IJ" is correct for languages other than Dutch (and maybe Afrikaans too?); in other languages the bottom of the "J" shouldn't go under the baseline

Nope, it's just that capital J in Hoefler text goes below the baseline. It's not a language thing, just a font thing. It's not that unusual for book-style fonts (like Hoefler text) to have a descender on capital J. Check out the Hoefler Text small caps test drive

In cyrillic lowercase are used for "wikipedia", while in latin uppercase is used

Yeah, cyrillic lowercase letters give the same general feel (i.e. equal x-height, no or small descenders) that small caps do in latin letters. It seemed overkill to use cyrillic small-caps.

there is the letter looking like a latin "j", which has a descent. Would you like I put uppercase versions of the cyrillic "wikipedia" name somewhere?

I have redone these cyrillic logos to use real small caps now, as well as the Greek logo. I think they will be satisfactory.

Also, some logos seem to have the last letter of "wikipedia" smaller than the first one.

Thanks Srtxg 01:29, 3 Feb 2004 (UTC)

How were the logos done

It would also be interesting to have the info on how the text is added (which program, fonts, sizes, etc).

All the Latin text is in Hoefler Text. The Cyrillic is in Warnock Pro. The Greek is in Gentium. The Japanese is Hiragino Kaku Gothic. The Chinese is Song. The Korean is AppleGothic. The Hebrew is Arial Hebrew. The Arabic is Geeza Pro. All the fonts except for Gentium and Warnock Pro come standard with Mac OS 10.3. Gentium is produced by SIL and is free. Warnock Pro is available from Adobe.

All of the left-to-right typography was done directly in Photoshop CS for Mac. If you like, I send you a Photoshop file containing all the variations, but if you don't have the fonts, at best it'll look funny, at worst you won't be able to read it at all. Photoshop doesn't seem to support right-to-left, so that was done in TextEdit and imported into Photoshop via a screen shot. -- Nohat 03:25, 3 Feb 2004 (UTC)

Chinese logo

the chinese logo on the chinese wikipedia looks better imho (it uses traditional chinese for wikipedia: "維基百科" btw) Srtxg

I'm not clear on this difference. I'll take a look. Nohat

sorry, there are two things: 1) the current logo on zh: looks better (to me) by the shape and proportions of fonts, and 2) it uses "維基百科" (note however that as Chinese wikipedia tries to incldue both simplified and traditional articles, using "維基百科" in the logo is probably better) Srtxg

I see the difference now: the "simplified" version is different only in the first character. In the lower left there is a short horizontal stroke in the simplified version and three short vertical strokes in the traditional version. I have to train my eye to pick up on those differences better! As for the proportions, the current zh:wikipedia logo has characters that look squashed to me. In my experience, Chinese characters are slightly taller than wide, and the characters in the zh: logo are slightly wider than tall. Nohat

in fact the logo on zh: has first and last hanzi bigger than the two others (similar as what is done in latin and cyrillic versions); I don't think that fits very well with CJK practice however. On the other side, the size ratio between the "wikipedia" name and subtitle in the zh: version is more like the other logos, while in your version the subtitle is almost of the same size as the title. Probably that is what catch my eye. The subtitle in the zh: version is enlarged to take the same width as the title; note also that the font used for subtitle is a bit more "brush painted" like, which is a better matching to italics than a mere slanting (which is not in chinese typeseting tradition at all). Maybe you could ask which font they used for the subtitle and use the same. Srtxg

Thank you for the new logos, but I still think that the current Chinese Wikipedia logo is better, mainly because of the fonts used perhaps. We chose the font lishu because it looks more traditional(in fact, lishu is one of the main categories of Chinese-character calligraphy). All characters are in traditional Chinese. Because all Chinese can read(though not write) both simplified and traditional Chinese to a very large extent, it is not necessary to put two characters in the logo. The only thing is that the first and the last characters are bigger than the rest, which is a mistake. We actually had provided a substitution(Image:Wikizh-up1.png), but unfortunetely Brion has not yet updated it.--Formulax 09:13, 4 Feb 2004 (UTC)

French logo

There's a capitalization error in the subtitle. One should read L'encyclopédie libre, not L'encyclopédie Libre. Could someone fix it? Vincent Ramos 00:32, 21 Mar 2004 (UTC)

Latvian logo

The logo and the translation are ok. - Juzeris 22:13, 19 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Russian logo

Russian Logo is OK!

Ramir 10:36, 10 Apr 2004 (UTC)

Serbian and Bosnian logo

I have submitted correct versions of the text: for Serbian it is "Википедија - Слободна енциклопедија", for Bosnian "Wikipedia - Slobodna enciklopedija". Bosnian logo is uploaded to bs wikipedia, Serbian still isn't.

Last update fixed this properly. But note that Bosnian Wikipedia still has old logo! Nikola Smolenski 23:10, 7 May 2004 (UTC)

Serbian logo

The shape of some letters for Serbian (and Macedonian) is wrong; see http://jankojs.tripod.com/SerbianCyr.htm Srtxg

I'm not sure I see what's wrong. Is the text wrong too (the text on the page)? If so then it'll have to be fixed before I can make a correct logo :-). If it's the logo, I don't see the difference, can you specify which characters in particular are wrong and what the correct unicode characters would be?

No, the text is correct, only the glyph is wrong. Follow the url I put, and look at the image with yellow background that shows the differences between russian/serbian style in italic (only in italic) for a few letters. Unicode encodes characters, not glyphs; but different languages use different glyphs.

Maybe, if your fonts are of high enough quality, they already include the glyph variants, and all that is needed is to tag the text as being in Serbian and it will automagically use the right glyph (glyph issues also exist for a lot of other languages, but much less visually important)

Hmm, I see now what you mean. I'd say the unicode people screwed this one up--making separate fonts just for Serbian--what a terrible idea. They should have defined separate characters for these glyphs.

No, they are not separate characters; they are the same ones, it just happens that their idiosyncratic glyphs differ from country to country (that also happens in latin alphabet too; when I learned to write handwritten spanish I learned to put a stroke trough "Z", "z", and "q"; in French that is not the case. In typeset French and German doesn't place the diaeresis at the same eigth (in german they are closer to the base letter), etc. Those are glyph variants only, so unicode has it right. They are perfectly readable in the "wrong" glyph too; it is just that, for the logo, it would be nice to have it right.

Fortunately the font I used (Warnock Pro) has these characters available as variants, so I was able to make a new Serbian logo.

Nice.

Yes, it was quite a surprise when I noticed it. By the way, Bulgarian also sometimes use alternate glyphs. Nikola Smolenski

I'm waiting on getting the translation for "the free encyclopedia" into Macedonian before I make that logo. Unfortunately Photoshop doesn't support "glyph variants" so I had to do the typography in TextEdit. I think the result looks fine though.

I have copied it from their main page (and I am sure that I did it right). But I am not sure that they translated "Wikipedia" right. Nikola Smolenski

test: ru: б г д п т, sr: б г д п т

(current version of wikipedia doesnt like <span lang> tag :-(

Yeah, don't complain to me about the SPAN tag; I've been begging on wikitech-l for them to enable it but I've been getting lots of nonsensible resistance.

At least

ru: б г д п т

sr: б г д п т

works ;) Nikola Smolenski 23:17, 7 May 2004 (UTC)

Slovak logo

The Slovak label is incorrect.

In Slavic languages -e ending is not usually used in singular nominative. Googling site:sk produces much more hits for "Encyklopédia" than "Encyklopédie". In fact all of the "Encyklopédie" hits I checked are either plural or singular genitive. (I can't produce any Slovak, but reading it is easy)

Anyway the Slovaks have already corrected the logo, but their version is ugly. Could you render a prettier version but with correct label ? --Taw

Welsh logo

The capital "Y" in the subtitle of the Welsh one looks maybe too curly (it looks like a greek letter in fact)? Srtxg

That's the standard italic capital "Y" in Hoefler Text. Check out the Hoefler text italic test drive Nohat

Greek Logo

When Greek is typeset in all caps, either no accents are used (this is normal modern practice) or the accents go above the letters (just like Latin), not in front. So, the accent on the I currently doesn't look very good. I could just open the logo in a graphics editor and move it or delete, but thought to mention it here before. BTW, I think the accent should be moved, not deleted. Adia 17:33, 18 Apr 2004 (UTC)

Hebrew Logo

The logo looks very nice, and I like the special font of the logo. I don't know why you choose to write "wikipedya" instead of "wikipedia". David Shay 19:59, 4 Feb 2004 (UTC)

Irish Logo

I'm afraid that there is a spelling mistake in the Irish version: instead of the subtitle reading "An ciclipéid saor", it should read "An chiclipéid shaor". Could this be changed? -- Kwekubo 20:49, 28 Feb 2004 (UTC)

• Thanks for the correction; now, how do I put it in the place of the English logo? Uploading it as wiki.png had no effect. Perhaps someone would have a go? -- Kwekubo 01:43, 4 Apr 2004 (UTC)
  • Thanks to whoever did it. -- Kwekubo 20:27, 5 Apr 2004 (UTC)

Japanese Logo

See International_Logos/Japanese for variants.

I think the "Furii" in Katakana looks quite silly, but I am not a native speaker...

Latin Logo

I notice there is a Latin version (whether it should have V instead of W is another matter)...how do I change the current English logo to the Latin version? Adam Bishop 00:35, 20 Mar 2004 (UTC)

I uploaded a logo to my domain at bowks.net/wiki/la/vicipaedia.png which has the VicipaediA title for the la.wiki because to my surprise I couldn't upload it to the wiki. I've been there since the wiki-dot-com days of the la.wiki and pretty much came up with the present look of the front page, but since the move to the wiki-dot-org I haven't had admin access to a lot of the wikis I frequented... Sob story, I know, I'll go wipe the tears off now :-))) But seriously, if the logo could be updated it would be nice. I've placed it as a link in the temporary and experimental front page space. - with regards, Jay B. User:ILVI, ia:Usator:ILVI

I noticed that there is the letter Æ in Latin Logo, but there isn't that letter in Latin language. Should the letter Æ be there?

Tamil Logo

Tamil logo is missing; is it a lack of font? (I could provide a font) Srtxg

No, I didn't have confirmation of the "the free encyclopedia" translation. I'll make a logo with what I have though. Nohat

I have inserted the Tamil Logo and corrected the spelling mistakes in Tamil. The logo inserted is same as we find in the Tamil pages now. The Translation for "Free Encyclopedia" seems not correct. We are trying to find a correct Tamil word for this. I will replace this soon. Mayooranathan 18:30, 3 Feb 2004 (UTC)

I loaded a Tamil version of the logo yesterday. In that the Tamil font was more closer to the English and many other language versions, and made in such a way that the first and last letters are larger than the others, as found in most other language versions. That has been changed for some reason. (May be the previous one was not clear enough.) However there is a mistake in the new version. The second word of the second line (In the Logo) has a spelling mistake. The second and third characters have to be interchanged. The correct spelling is "இலவச கலைக்களஞ்சியம்". Mayooranathan 18:35, 4 Feb 2004 (UTC)

I'm confused. On my computer, the second character I see is ல and the third character is வ, and this is the same order they are in the new logo. Is there something wrong with my computer's Tamil display, or am I talking about the wrong thing? --Nohat 20:30, 4 Feb 2004 (UTC)

The second word is "கலைக்களஞ்சியம்". Indeed if you look that the logo it displays "கைலக்களஞ்சியம்" instead Srtxg 05:16, 5 Feb 2004 (UTC)

This is a quirk of Unicode which says that for the syllable "lai" in Indian languages, you first type "la" (ல) and then the matra (modifier, sort of) for "ai" (ை), irrespective of whether the matra comes before or after in the written text. The software that renders the text is supposed to interchange them and show the "ை" before the "ல". Many systems don't have this capability. My Mandrake 9.2 mozilla is able to show Tamil Unicode text properly but fails for Devanagari, for example. -- Paddu 06:37, 20 Feb 2004 (UTC)

I was talking about the word "கலைக்களஞ்சியம்". In this the second and third characters are in fact, parts of the same letter, which gives the sound "Lai" in Tamil. See this image:

In your logo it is wrong. In fact normally it is not possible, in Tamil keybords, to type the characters in the sequence, found in your logo. Some thing may be wrong. Mayooranathan 06:31, 5 Feb 2004 (UTC)

I think "சுதந்திர" is a good-enough translation of "free". "கலைக்களஞ்சியம்" probably means a "collection of arts". http://www.uni-koeln.de/phil-fak/indologie/tamil/otl_search.html suggests "கல்விச்சேர்க்கை". Here is an image:
-- Paddu 14:23, 19 Feb 2004 (UTC)

In most Indian languages, the closest translation of "free" is "swatantra", "suthanthira" or variations thereof, which means "independent". Thus the closest translation of the logo text usually means "independent encyclopedia" (which could be misunderstood as "independent from others") and not "free encyclopedia" (i.e. free to be copied/modified/distributed). But still that would be better than the current Tamil logo that says the encyclopedia is gratis. -- Paddu 14:32, 19 Feb 2004 (UTC)

I think we need to search a suitable Tamil word only for "free". The word "கலைக்களஞ்சியம்" is fairly established in Tamil for "encyclopedia", and I feel it need not to be changed. I also feel the adjective "சுதந்திர" is closer to the word "free" in this context. However, it seems that many Tamils are not happy with this word as it is a Sanskrit word, and prefer to use "விடுதலை" instead. The word "விடுதலை" is commonly used to mean "liberation" (as in விடுதலை இயக்கம்), "freedom" (as in விடுதலைப் போராட்டம்), "Indipendent" (as in விடுதலை பெற்ற நாடு), "released" (as in சிறையிலிருந்து விடுதலையானார்) in Tamil, but the combinations like "விடுதலைக் கலைக்களஞ்சியம்" does not seems familiar. I have also come across in one of those websites related to "free software movement", the word "தளையறு" (தளை - bond + அறு - broken) is used for "free". It is commpletely a new usage. Therefor atleast the following three options are possible. 1.சுதந்திர கலைக்களஞ்சியம் 2.விடுதலைக் கலைக்களஞ்சியம் 3.தளையறு கலைக்களஞ்சியம் I propose that we do not decide any thing in a hurry. We may put this for discussion, possibly in a suitable forum of Tamil Experts. Someone may come up with more suitable options.Mayooranathan 06:22, 20 Feb 2004 (UTC)

I think the "இலவச" needs to be removed immediately as it gives a wrong idea about the 'pedia's philosophy. -- Paddu 06:51, 20 Feb 2004 (UTC)

Interesting is that in English, where the double meaning of "free" is problematic, some people try to desambiguate it by using "freedom" or "liberated" instead (like "freedom software" or "liberated software") in latin derived languages the root is the same as in freedom too ("libre"); so using that same root as in freedom/liberation may be a good idea; that is indeed the original meaning intended in English "free" in that context. Srtxg 13:45, 20 Feb 2004 (UTC)

Urdu Logo

The Urdu logo png image should have unicode hex value 0688, ڈ ddal in the third to last letter of 'wikipedia'. It currently has hex value 0691, ڑ rreh. It is correct in the non-image text area; thus ويکيپيڈيا.

Volapük logo

The Vo logo for the Vükiped is uploaded to the vo.wiki but I'll need help in putting it in the corner where it belongs. Not that it misbehaved or anything... :-))) It now appears at the bottom of the Cifapad (Chief-Page). - Jay B. User:ILVI ia:Usator:ILVI

Tatar

Could you remake the Tatar logo for Wikipedia Tatarça . The first was uncorrect.

--217.30.248.227 21:52, 25 Jun 2004 (UTC) (tt:User:Untifler)

Bahasa Melayu logo.

Can you change bahasa Melayu logo to use the following spelling :- Ensiklopedia bebas. Yosri 06:19, 26 Jun 2004 (UTC)

Berber wikipedia

The logo for the berber wikipedia (not yet created) uses tifinagh script; that's fine indeed; however, the text on the right is not written using the tifinagh codes in unicode BMP plan (recently added in 2004). There are also some glyph differences between the letters used in the logo, and the ones encoded in unicode, namely for the "p" and "y". I changed the text into correct tifinagh codepoint positions, with latin transliteration for people without a unicode tifinagh font.

Also, the letter "p" isn't native (a neo-tifinagh has been created for it but as an extension, mainly to transcribe foreign names), should the wikipedia name use "p" or "b" instead? and, for the ending, "-edya" (like in the 2004-10-11 version) or "-ediya" (like in the 2004-09-20 version)? (see Ber-wiki-logo.png for the various logos). That is, ⵡⵉⴽⵉⵒⴻⴷⵢⴰ, ⵡⵉⴽⵉⵒⴻⴷⵉⵢⴰ, ⵡⵉⴽⵉⴱⴻⴷⵢⴰ or ⵡⵉⴽⵉⴱⴻⴷⵉⵢⴰ?

At http://people.w3.org/rishida/scripts/pickers/tifinagh/ there is a page to type in unicode tifinagh, with a link to a ttf font ("Hapax Berbère") supporting the newly encoded unicode tifinagh set. (note the "p" (ⵒ) is missing from that page, which only allows typing the tifinagh set used by the Moroccan standardized orthography)

Srtxg 01:24, 13 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Node_ue, my browser works correctly; it is maybe yours that is unable to display correctly if it shows only question signs (have you installed a unicode font, like the ttf one from the above link?).

What you wrote is not proper tifinagh unicode encoding, you use non assigned codepoints, it may display correctly using a custom font, but it is not standard, you should revert it.

In fact, what you are using is the old (now obsoleted) reserved range for tifinagh from the BMP roadmap at U+08A0-U+08CF, that range wasn't standardized and it was a proposal only; now however the tifinagh have been formally accepted into BMP on the U+2D30-U+2D7F range, and that is what should be used.

I put side by side both writtings, in standard unicode and in the old non-standard coding.

Srtxg 07:16, 14 Oct 2004 (UTC)

"e" in Berber represents a schwa (French e), not an e sound; "Wikibidya" would be a better approximation of the name. - 172.191.214.50 16:47, 18 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Moreover, "Tasanayt illeli" is ungrammatical; "free" is an adjective, and should agree with the gender of Tasanayt, making Wikibidya: Tasanayt Tilellit (following [1]'s spelling.) - 64.81.54.23 18:44, 12 Jan 2005 (UTC)

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Azul the World Tamazirght.org since mars 2006 Experimental and dedicated Wikipedia an tamazight (berber,beraber,..) language,i need help for Amazigh people not Barbar (berber)