This page is for discussions related to the Toolhub page.
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Tasks: Creating vs uploadingEdit
In the tasks there is a division which says Creating or uploading content IMHO these are two separate tasks supporting different projects creating content refers to article editing. While uploading is related to media files and may overlap with Converting and Formatting assuming its about files types and not page clean up Gnangarra (talk) 00:47, 2 August 2022 (UTC)
- Thanks for your comment! Uploading could also be relevant for Wikidata, though the term more commonly used there is "importing". I think you are correct that "creating" is probably more like "editing", and "uploading" (and perhaps "importing") should be separate. TBurmeister (WMF) (talk) 15:41, 3 August 2022 (UTC)
- yep I see it as that and would search for;
- content creation - to do with writing and editing of articles,
- uploading - is the standard way the internet refers to copying media files from your device to any website.
- importing - is for data sets, while as photographer I might say uploading though if I saw importing as a category it'd ring the bell and make sense.
- What boils down to, is reflecting the physical way we do things even the simple aspect that with images uploading is the antipode to saving them, while downloading is a transitory function of reusing. Perhaps what is being highlighted is that the list is itself too complex and more like branches of something larger and more general. We could even be thing that perhaps where the category tree starts is less about the tools function and more about subject the tool working with ie Article, User, Media, Data... Gnangarra (talk) 03:09, 4 August 2022 (UTC)
- yep I see it as that and would search for;
Understandably these are technical division, but the people seeking tools generally are looking for project specific tools, and then ones that have a front end thats been translated into their preferred spoken/written language. The basic division here dont get me to where I need to be, The task I have is to contribute 2000 images from a historical society to Commons, the steps I'm taking are;
- Commons tools
- one that can working the back ground without need to be monitored
- front end is in Malay(preferred) or english
- I find pattypan thats needs a spreadsheet of data.
- with a preference to XLS MS Excel format not FLOSS formats nor even google XLSX
- I believe the current set of tool description fields combined with the proposed taxonomy could support the steps you describe. Thank you for describing them, that is a useful way to approach this! Here's how I think it could work:
- There is already a "For wikis" attribute that includes a value for Wikimedia Commons. (there are only 4 tools with that metadata applied to them, but that is a separate problem).
- The proposed "Task" attribute would cover "uploading"
- The existing "Tool type" attribute would enable you to find bots or other types of tools that work in the background without needing to be monitored. pattypan is categorized on Commons as a "Desktop application".
- The existing "UI language" attribute would cover the front end being in English or Malay (again, data completeness here is a current problem for the tools in Toolhub)
- With that amount of criteria there should be only a small number of tools left to browse and you would be able to find what you expect.
- The bigger problem for finding pattypan specifically is that it doesn't seem to have a record in Toolhub yet. There are tools that still need to be added, and the existing toolinfo records and metadata needs to be filled in and/or cleaned up. I'm not sure how many of the tools listed at https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Upload_tools are in Toolhub, but there are a lot of tools tagged with "wikimedia commons" or "commons". The ideal situation would be that each of those tools would have "Wikimedia Commons" in the "For wikis" field, so that users could then further filter and refine their search using the other attributes, both the ones that already exist and the ones in the proposed taxonomy.
- Thanks again for your feedback! TBurmeister (WMF) (talk) 14:37, 9 August 2022 (UTC)
I think adding and/or updating content is not well covered by the other tasks categories and could be a useful addition. (And yes, I have a tool that would fit in that category). -jem- (talk) 11:39, 2 August 2022 (UTC)
- Thanks for your comment! When you think of adding content, do you mean editing to create new articles/media files/etc or more like bulk uploading? Similar question for "updating content": how is that different from "Editing" or from "Creating or uploading content"? Do you agree with @Gnangarra's comment above that "creating content" refers to article editing, not other types of wiki content? TBurmeister (WMF) (talk) 15:37, 3 August 2022 (UTC)
- Thanks for your reply, TBurmeister. I will explain in more detail the differences I see between creating and updating articles; and I think it will be better to remove the "adding" part, because it can be considered a particular case within "updating":
- Compliance with policies on relevance and possibly specific rules on [partially-]automatic creations (at least in eswiki, my home wiki, they do exist) is required.
- Themes are usually reduced to those in which articles form a series with many common elements or patterns, which can usually be read from a more or less formal database.
- From the tool, the complete structure of the article must be defined, based on all of the above.
- You work on all kinds of existing articles with different formats, so you do not need to consider policies, standards, databases, structure... but only text patterns to identify what and how to update, based on external sources, language rules, etc.
- These are periodic tasks for the same article and not one-time tasks, so the tool must keep a history of what is being done, control the frequency in some way, etc.
- Regarding your question, I believe that "editing" mainly involves content introduced by the user with total or great freedom, while "updating" involves a fully or almost fully automatic change proposal with which the user only has to interact minimally.
- As for Gnangarra's proposal, following the same criteria, I also think it is appropriate to differentiate between the creation of articles and the creation/uploading of other types of content, which would have to be based on very different rules and programming. I also see it possible that non-article content, which would be based on similar principles, could be included in the "updating" category (I am thinking for example of modifying the text of SVG files and uploading new versions, modifying the wikitext associated with any Commons file, updating information in a Wikidata item, etc.). I'm even thinking that moves/title changes could be included as updates, since right now they don't seem to fit in the other categories either (and again, one of my tools performs them). -jem- (talk) 13:33, 7 August 2022 (UTC)
Additional feedback page for the proposed taxonomyEdit
There are multiple Talk pages for Toolhub; we will monitor them all for feedback about the data model and taxonomy. However, there is actually a Talk page specifically for the taxonomy feedback: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Toolhub/Data_model/Feedback. You may want to see what others have said there even if you left your comment here. No need to double-post, though - we'll gather the comments from everywhere! TBurmeister (WMF) (talk) 15:44, 3 August 2022 (UTC)
- It may be clearer to redirect talk pages from all subpages to this one, so people can browse what is being discussed -- until you reach some scores of comments. That way noone has to guess where to go to contribute comments, find comments to respond to, or read those of others! –SJ talk 23:56, 10 August 2022 (UTC)