Talk:Community Relations Specialists

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What do the dashes mean?Edit

In the section "Who we are" of this page, the listed specialists are followed by some text in italics, which presumably indicates the areas they're working on. Five of these have dashes in them (eg "Thriving Movement - Talk pages"), which I would think would indicate that one of these two things is a subtopic of the other. However, one of the entries is "Brand Awareness - Desktop Improvements", which sound like separate topics. Do the dashes here mean "and"? If so, this could be expressed more clearly. --Yair rand (talk) 20:01, 20 July 2020 (UTC)

MTP priorities - name of the project. HTH. --Elitre (WMF) (talk) 21:01, 20 July 2020 (UTC)

The main page of the message or the page of the language version of the messageEdit

When the design of a message is changed in the local wiki (for example, in a message the text is only in Russian (actually for any language) and a page with it is created in the ruwiki), how is it more correct to do this: create a "mediawiki:message" or "mediawiki:message/ru" page locally? It is not written in detail about this in the mw:Help:System message#Overriding messages on-wiki.

If the local wiki has received a new version of the mediawiki and the messages have changed in it (let's say more seriously, the values of the parameters in the messages have changed), and the old translation has not yet been changed to a new one on translatewiki (but the new original message/en works fine, because it is the first to be changed on translatewiki). Do we need to temporarily create the message page or /subpage locally in the wiki? [1] - [2] vs [3]; or sometimes participants create two at once [4] [5].

If not temporarily, but the page changes in order to be constantly shown changed? Should we overlap all languages with just one language? Or are we obligated to leave messages available for other languages by default instead of one modified message? [6] vs [7]

Is it possible to write more about this in the help? Sunpriat (talk) 07:17, 30 October 2021 (UTC)

Thanks @Sunpriat for the question. @Sthottingal-WMF, @UOzurumba (WMF), do you as Language engineering members could help? SGrabarczuk (WMF) (talk) 17:22, 4 November 2021 (UTC)
Hello Sunpriat,
Thank you for your question, I and some people in the WMF language team have tried to understand your question and it is not clear the problem you are having and what your question is about.
We will appreciate it if you can give more context and explain your problems further in the relevant discussion page, maybe in Help:System message talk page.
UOzurumba (WMF) (talk) 12:37, 11 November 2021 (UTC)

Wikipedia AvailabilityEdit

In recent months, we have had problems with the availability of Wikimedia sites via Cloudflare [8][9][10]. We managed to solve them through the phabricator. Readers will not go to the phabricator. We don't even know how many people could have faced this.

If you count "sustainability" [11], energy consumption [12] and so on... Maybe there is something interesting in the Yandex network infrastructure https://yandex.com/dev/turbo/ . We have many sites through them available for reading on mobile devices. This can reduce the load on your servers (there are more mobile readers according to statistics [13][14]) and make the pages more accessible for us.

For the work of the mw:Extension:ContentTranslation, we have already managed to negotiate with Yandex about using their translator. Maybe it will also be possible to negotiate with the accessibility of pages for reading through their turbo infrastructure (after all, lightweight (m.wikipedia.org) versions of sites for mobile devices are already being shown). Sunpriat (talk) 23:47, 17 December 2021 (UTC)

Thanks for sharing your thoughts. We'll figure out a way to share them internally with relevant people. My 2 cents - I believe that many browsers today already offer similar advantages? They have modes called "data saving" or something along those lines - not sure how this really differs. --Elitre (WMF) (talk) 10:26, 18 December 2021 (UTC)
Back then, traffic compression worked very well for a long time. But now, after switching to https, https is not processed by them and passes directly (if there is a problem with Cloudflare, the pages will remain unavailable). All requests completely pass through the vpn functions of browsers, but many vpns are "not available in your country". Sunpriat (talk) 12:53, 18 December 2021 (UTC)

Translating buttonsEdit

The label texts for the buttons have been changed on the translatewiki.net - they are now "publish changes" and the similar.

I tried [15] to translate the text of the buttons as written and as implied. Also, for example, in other texts for translation, there are a lot of mentions of buttons and descriptions of the way of doing exactly "publishing" changes, for example, how to make it public (that even various actions and personal pages of the participant are not private and can be viewed by everyone).

But my translations were rolled back with arguments [16] to some non-existent abstract "common point of view of Russian-speaking communities." And will stop rolling back changes for buttons only if the WMF employees give a comment (about the meaning of new texts with "publish" and about the mass-usurpation (re-inventing texts) of messages-translations in words that are not in the original message).

Here only one text version "save/write" is pushed through through all messages due to the fact that on the ru.wikipedia.org was a "save" button under the editing window for a long time, and now because of this, all the buttons should be called that way.

The text from that one old button is strictly pushed even in the texts of new, recently created extensions and other systems that initially used "publish" from the very beginning of creation. And it pushes through even to all wiki sites that use this database of translations, that are not related to ru.wikipedia.org in any way. Participants of one site (ru.wikipedia.org) should limit themselves to translation changes only locally (ru.wikipedia.org) on their site and should not so non-neutral and strictly rewrite messages in translations with words that are not in the original messages for all global translations and extensions.

Maybe someone can check the situation and give the comment they require. It may be, for example, that only the translation intended by the original message should be used on the translatewiki.net and that deviations from translations should be made only locally on the sites, or add to the qqq-documentation of these messages that some other words can be used in these messages, or explain the policy and intentions of the WMF for the new "publish" text for the buttons (and maybe refer to it in qqq). Сунприат (talk) 01:33, 9 January 2022 (UTC)

We will get back to you on this. Thanks for sharing. STei (WMF) (talk) 09:44, 10 January 2022 (UTC)
Hello, Сунприат, and thank you this message. I worked with WMF Legal and the Product department on the original project some years ago. I can assure you that it is not an English-only problem. Unfortunately, I don't speak Russian, and this can require some subtle understanding of both the language and the conventions that people are used to.
I will explain it from an English-language viewpoint, and then you will have to tell me how that adapts to the experience of Russian speakers.
The main point, regardless of language, is for editors (especially new editors) to understand that when you click the Big Blue Button, whatever you typed will be made available to the public. Legal and Product both want everything to tell the person that after you click this button, anyone with an internet connection will be able to see whatever you put in the editing box, even if you are working in your userspace sandbox or otherwise outside the main namespace.
If you are using modern software in English, and you see the word "save", that usually means "save a private copy that nobody else can see". If you see other words in the software (e.g., send, publish, share, post, comment, reply), then those other words usually mean that other people will see it. For example, bloggers using WordPress blogging software are given the choice between "Save" (privately, to work on later) and "Publish" (to make available to the public). Matching WordPress's language would likely be appropriate for these messages.
Another approach is to consider the legal terminology. When we click the Big Blue Button, we are each "publishing" our content in a legal sense. This means that the terminology used in copyright law (e.g., for the date of first publication) or in privacy/libel/defamation laws ("publishing libel") could also be appropriate.
In some languages, there may be multiple good terms to use. The main goal is that the chosen terms communicate, as clearly as possible, that everything, including test edits or a few notes about an article that you make a outside the mainspace, are visible to the entire world. Nobody should be surprised that clicking the Big Blue Button makes their name/phone number/whatever they typed available to the general public. Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 17:58, 10 January 2022 (UTC)
@Whatamidoing (WMF): it is an "English-only" problem in two ways—1) not every language used "save" language in its buttons, and "записать" (closest translation is "record") does not equal "save" as used in Word etc. already; 2) you chose the word "publish", which does not have an adequate translation for all languages, and where English interface can use a 7-letter word for it, it becomes long "опубликовать" (12 letters, as proposed by Сунприат) in Russian. It is the same problem as the UCoC: good intentions, but the chosen word choice makes it hard to believe that people doing the work considered any languages other than English. I understand what the intention of the change was, but both the chosen language and the chosen way to do it (as opposed to, say, something clear and big in the publishing/saving interface itself) was fine mostly because it was not done with much consideration to internationalisation.
My main motivation to not follow this by letter (while not advocating, say, for "сохранить", which would be "save" and is used in Word etc. for "save [on your computer]") is because Wikimedia interfaces usually have space considerations (especially VisualEditor) and a longer translation makes an interface already ridden with longer words on average when compared with English.
(I would like to just note that someone should have mentioned me in this discussion if the topic-starter did not do so.) stjn[ru] 23:03, 13 January 2022 (UTC)
@Stjn, why do you think that 12 letters is too long? The German button says Änderungen veröffentlichen, and nobody complains that it takes up too much space. Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 03:45, 14 January 2022 (UTC)
Because it is long? The German button being even longer (and getting even longer from this change, it was Änderungen speichern before) is not really an argument against my point, which was (in short) that this would not be done if English text would be as long as in German or in Russian. Either way, this was decided roughly 5 years ago, so I am not exactly opposed to discussing it again (and then changing the text if people agree to direct translation of "publish"). My issue with changes by Сунприат were mostly the fact that they resorted to authority here without much consideration for whether Russian text even had this ambiguity in the first place. stjn[ru] 19:02, 14 January 2022 (UTC)
"Because it is long" sounds like a personal aesthetic preference, which is valid but not a very convincing rationale for making everyone else use your preferred version. IMO the most necessary and important button in the interface should be a big button.
I had a fun discussion at enwiki a few years ago about the Big Blue Button. Experienced editors don't really look at the buttons. I type my comment, I hit Shift+ Enter, and it's posted. We know what the buttons do, so the buttons don't even need to be visible. The labels are there for new contributors, not for people like us. Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 21:43, 14 January 2022 (UTC)
Dear @Whatamidoing (WMF), it is not about "personal aesthetic preference", as you can see in the message "Wikimedia interfaces usually have space considerations" above. The length of messages in some non-Engish interfaces is indeed a problem, and ignoring it and forcing the users of other languages into English message model looks rather like cultural imperialism. It would be nice to use language-specific messages without resorting to word-for-word translations. Wikisaurus (talk) 21:48, 19 January 2022 (UTC)
The problem with "Because it is long" is that someone else could say "No, it is not". How do you decide which person's opinion is correct?
If there were an objective problem (e.g., "This is so long that it doesn't fit on the button"), then everyone could look at it agree that it didn't fit on the button. They would probably also agree that not fitting on the button was a problem. (We had this problem: years ago, one of the Asian languages translated "Save changes" to something like "By clicking this button you agree that you own the content that you are submitting, not violating copyright law, and agree to license this under CC-BY-SA 3.0". MediaWiki buttons expand to fix the size of the text, but there are some limits.)
However, I do not think people would generally agree that 12 letters is always too long for a button, especially since longer messages exist and are accepted without complaint. The button right next to this one contains 24 letters in Russian, and the third button in that row has 19 letters. Why is the length of the smaller button complained about, but the longest one is not? This makes me think that the number of letters is not actually the main concern. Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 02:15, 25 January 2022 (UTC)
@Whatamidoing (WMF)
> How do you decide which person's opinion is correct?
We are Wikimedia space, so consensus is the right way. You supported the action, which was made bypassing the consensus. And it decided that only your opinion is correct, without trying to understand the situation and start the discussion.
> MediaWiki buttons expand to fix the size of the text, but there are some limits.
This is not always true: mobile version, apps, new vector, visual editor are terribly adapted for languages other than English. The problem with the number of characters for translation is one of the main ones in MediaWiki. Iniquity (talk) 07:31, 25 January 2022 (UTC)
Not every community operates according to consensus. The German-language Wikipedia, for example, prefers a simple majority vote for major decisions.
I reverted to the more precise translation only for messages that aren't used at the Russian Wikipedia. The objection given at the time was a lack of discussion. There has now been a discussion. This discussion has not, as far as I can tell, resulted in a consensus that a 2016 decision at the Russian Wikipedia should be imposed on Wikidata and MediaWiki.org. Do you disagree? Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 00:03, 26 January 2022 (UTC)
> Not every community operates according to consensus. The German-language Wikipedia, for example, prefers a simple majority vote for major decisions.
Voting is also a kind of consensus, are you suggesting forcing TranslateWiki to switch to voting? I don't think this should be discussed here.
> The objection given at the time was a lack of discussion. There has now been a discussion.
I hope you understand that everyone on this page, including the one who started the topic, Russian Wikimedia contributors, translators and discussed this translation before? And this topic only appeared because the user did not want to discuss it further in the workflow?
> This discussion has not, as far as I can tell, resulted in a consensus that a 2016 decision at the Russian Wikipedia should be imposed on Wikidata and MediaWiki.org. Do you disagree?
It seems to me that the discussion showed that the main translators of the MediaWiki are the contributors of the Russian Wikipedia, and it does not matter where the discussion was, in the chat, in the Russian Wikipedia or on TranslateWiki. You don't translate MediaWiki into Russian, you never did it, and you didn't even send a user to discuss these changes anywhere, you just rolled back the edits. Iniquity (talk) 10:36, 26 January 2022 (UTC)
And again, to clarify, according to your position, I do not have the right to translate MediaWiki on TranslateWiki because I am a Wikipedia contributor and I try to ensure that the translation was good in all Russian projects, including Wikipedia? Iniquity (talk) 10:42, 26 January 2022 (UTC)
@Whatamidoing (WMF): Probably because ‘Publish changes’ language is used in various form factors, including, for example, VE and mobile, whereas translations for ‘Preview’ and ‘Show changes’ are only a problem in a standard edit form (or less of a problem in VE and on mobile). So, for example, on mobile your WMF-enforced language with ‘Опубликовать’ makes the page heading, already unreadable, even worse in its rendering. Same problem is probably present with VE on small resolutions. stjn[ru] 15:16, 30 January 2022 (UTC)
On the scale of "How clear it is to the user that their edits will be publicly available",
  • "Save page" is maximally on the "unclear" side;
  • "Publish changes" is maximally on the "clear" side;
  • "Записать страницу" (the current Russian translation, roughly translated to English as "Write (to) the page") is somewhere in the middle.
In the discussion that took place in 2016 (after your post) in Russian Wikipedia, most editors noted that the problem is less relevant to the Russian language, although some editors pointed out that it is still relevant and there were cases of misunderstanding of what the button does. There was also some critique of "Publish changes" from the POV of stabilized (using FlaggedRevs) articles, in case of which "publish" may be misleading as well, although very few articles are stabilized in RuWP.
In the end, I think, I will more likely support "Publish", especially given that you say "The main goal is that the chosen terms communicate, as clearly as possible, [...]", but if there is an opposition to this, this will probably have to go though another community discussion. JWBTH (talk) 09:38, 14 January 2022 (UTC)
Theoretically, a discussion at the Russian-language Wikipedia has no bearing on what happens at TranslateWiki.net, because:
  • TranslateWiki.net is a completely different website, with its own rules, and
  • the translations posted there affect every MediaWiki installation in the world, not just ruwiki.
It would be strange for someone to believe that a discussion at ruwiki gets to decide what people see everywhere else. Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 21:36, 14 January 2022 (UTC)
Right, well, I was having the appearance of the button in RuWP in mind, but the OP was referring to Translatewiki edits, so you're right.
Having said that, can't help but notice there is, in fact, hardly a place to meaningfully discuss MediaWiki translation among broad language community. It could take a form of inviting communities of WMF projects to Translatewiki, but this would effectively result in something very close to "ruwiki gets to decide what people see everywhere else", as you put it. Although this way people would at least keep in mind they are translating for MediaWiki installations instead of WMF projects. JWBTH (talk) 22:20, 14 January 2022 (UTC)
@JWBTH, I think that there are some discussions at TWN, others on the talk page for Meta:Babylon, occasional comments on the translators-l mailing list, but no really active central place. Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 03:18, 15 January 2022 (UTC)
Wikimedia movement is the only big stakeholder in Translatewiki.net translations for MediaWiki. A discussion in Russian Wikipedia absolutely has that effect by the virtue of it being the biggest and most populous website that uses MediaWiki. Now that you have started reverting my changes (and I reverted all the remaining ones), I hope you deal with any possible fallout of this change from the editors, and not us. stjn[ru] 08:48, 19 January 2022 (UTC)
@Stjn, I wouldn't have recommended that action. The four I changed were ones that do not appear at the Russian Wikipedia, so why should the Russian Wikipedia care what they say? I would have recommended leaving the ones that do affect the Russian Wikipedia until this discussion ended. However, I will be happy to answer questions, if anyone has any questions. Feel free to ping me to any such conversations you see. Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 01:58, 25 January 2022 (UTC)
Well, as a matter of fact I do not think that interface translations should differ in the translation of the same words because it brings too much confusion to future editors. So you changing only the ones that appeared on Wikibase etc. with the description ‘I believe these have now been discussed adequately’ a) was wrong to me, and b) clearly implied that the other messages would soon follow, if they have ‘been discussed adequately’.
As a consequence, I already had to revert someone else once (@MBH) because they wanted the old text back. Which I get, since the old text is objectively better and shorter. stjn[ru] 15:05, 30 January 2022 (UTC)
I may partially repeat the argument above, but the Russian Wikimedia community is the main stakeholder of TW's Russian translations. It would be strange to expect that the main discussion will take place not where the community is, but where you want it to be. Therefore, the practice that you personally push your variant of translation, while ignoring the opinion of the community, seems to be much worse than any inaccuracies in the translation. I don't know what the translation should be, but in this discussion, I see that the Foundation and its staff once again did not even try to find a good solution, but simply crushed the community with their authority. — putnik 11:06, 19 January 2022 (UTC)
Just an opinion... Russian is my native language, but I write in the Russian Wikipedia relatively rarely, and I'm not going to get into these edit wars.
The general idea of changing "save" to "publish" in contexts where pushing the button makes the content public is a good idea. This text is unambiguous, and it helps users understand what will happen without having to read help pages or fine-print disclaimers.
translatewiki should have "опубликовать" or some other word that makes it unambiguous that the changes will be public. That's because translatewiki affects all MediaWiki sites and not just Wikimedia sites. If people on the Russian Wikipedia or other Russian-language Wikimedia sites want another word, they can change it locally. I don't support this solution myself, but it's a tolerable compromise.
String length is irrelevant, and the word "опубликовать" is not too long. Some languages have an even longer button, and it's not a big deal. In general, string length should almost never be a consideration that the translator is supposed to care about. It's the designers' job to make sure that the design works with any language and any string length. In this case, it's not a problem at all. If somebody does think that length is an issue, please file a bug.
The word "записать" means "write" or "record". It's a good translation for "save". Russian also has the word "сохранить", which is closer in literal meaning to the English "save", but there's no real difference between "записать" and "сохранить" as a translation for "save". The chosen translation should probably be used consistently, but both are good. Importantly, for the sake of this discussion, neither of these words makes unambiguously clear that the content will be public; it's a good label for "save" (e.g. in preferences), but not a good label for "publish" (e.g. in wiki pages).
My impression is that this argument simply boils down to some people's being too accustomed to the old label on the button, and all other explanations are circumstantial.
Do whatever you want with this information. As I said, I am just commenting, and I am not going to fight about this myself. Amir E. Aharoni (talk) 12:45, 15 January 2022 (UTC)
@Amire80, It's strange to say that the translation of regular messages on TranslateWiki is independent of the translation of the local wiki. It's as if all messages in English were locally created and all differed in essence from what is in TranslateWiki. This seems like some kind of wrong approach. The Russian community has been translating MediaWiki for 20 years, and they know how to translate MediaWiki correctly, because we work with it 100% of the time. If you would like to hire separate translators for this, please let us know. We'll create local files so we don't have to depend on you. Iniquity (talk) 09:00, 19 January 2022 (UTC)
and fyi @Whatamidoing (WMF) Iniquity (talk) 09:01, 19 January 2022 (UTC)
That's not what I said, @Iniquity. I'm not sure how did you understand this. Amir E. Aharoni (talk) 10:16, 19 January 2022 (UTC)
> translatewiki should have "опубликовать" or some other word that makes it unambiguous that the changes will be public. That's because translatewiki affects all MediaWiki sites and not just Wikimedia sites. If people on the Russian Wikipedia or other Russian-language Wikimedia sites want another word, they can change it locally. I don't support this solution myself, but it's a tolerable compromise. Iniquity (talk) 11:15, 19 January 2022 (UTC)
I believe that this is the normal approach, though? There is one "generic" translation of the software. After that, local admins customize it. The English Wikipedia has heavily customized the English. Consider, e.g., the generic message for non-existent pages against the custom version at Meta-Wiki and the custom version at the English Wikipedia. They are all different.
If the Russian Wikipedia wants to have a custom message (as seems to be the case for this message: the Russian translation adds bold text to emphasize the third option), then that custom message should be created at the Russian Wikipedia and not posted at TranslateWiki.net, where it will automatically spread to thousands of MediaWiki installations across the whole world. The English version currently at the Russian Wikipedia, on the other hand, seems to exactly match the generic version from TranslateWiki, so there should not be any local copy for that message. Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 19:54, 19 January 2022 (UTC)
No, it's not normal. We may separate MediaWiki translation and Wikimedia projects translation, but we must not separate translations of different language editions of Wikimedia projects.
1) If in the Russian and English Wikipedias, when choosing the same language, the same button is called differently, then this may cause confusion for the user. And this is in contrast to the situation with the meaning, which may not be obvious, but which is enough to understand once, this problem will remain with the user forever.
2) There is only one reason why in the English Wikipedia the standard message is replaced by a more user-friendly one, but not in the Russian one (and vice versa): most often, the community of Wikipedia edition has the resources to support only translations of messages into their own language, ignoring others. As a result, if I set the Russian language in the global settings, then most likely my use of the English Wikipedia will be much less convenient than for users who use the default English interface. And I repeat that this is not normal, and hardly anyone specifically wants it to be like this, it's just that existing translation tools do not allow us to do better without spending many times more effort on it. — putnik 09:48, 20 January 2022 (UTC)
@Whatamidoing (WMF), for some reason you say that I, as a translator of MediaWiki, cannot translate MediaWiki for Wikipedia and I can translate it only for another projects. I hope you understand that the community that translates MediaWiki is 90% Wikimedians from Wikipedia? And you're saying that the whole interface I translated for MediaWiki is wrong and I should make it just for Wikipedia, because all interface was translated because of consensun in ruwiki. Am I right? Iniquity (talk) 12:10, 20 January 2022 (UTC)
> The English version currently at the Russian Wikipedia, on the other hand, seems to exactly match the generic version from TranslateWiki, so there should not be any local copy for that message.
I sincerely apologize, have you ever worked with TranslateWiki and other WikiProjects? You say some unimaginable things that are not true. Local messages can and should be modified for the needs of the project, especially informational messages. The interface and messages should not differ from the general translation, unless they serve some function exclusively for this project. If you have an "edit" button in your project that deletes an article due to project scripts, it must be renamed in the project. If your "edit" button does not fit in the box or breaks the interface due to errors in the design of the MediaWiki, it should be renamed to TranslateWiki. Because it will break the interface in all projects that use MediaWiki. Iniquity (talk) 12:20, 20 January 2022 (UTC)
Perhaps an example will help.
  • Imagine a hypothetical MediaWiki message. Perhaps it says "Click here to start a new page".
  • One Wikipedia community wants this message to be different. Perhaps they want it to say "We encourage you to search for this subject before you start a new page."
Should this Wikipedia community's preferred version:
  1. be used in that community's Wikipedia?
  2. be used at all Wikipedias, but not at other wikis (e.g., at the English Wikipedia, for any editor who sets that language in their preferences or who clicks a link to the English Wikipedia like this one)?
  3. be used at all WMF-hosted wikis, but not at non-WMF wikis (e.g., at Wikisource, Wikibooks, Wikinews, Meta-Wiki, etc.)?
  4. be used everywhere in the world (e.g., at Wikia's Fandom, thousands of corporate wikis around the world)?
Which of these options feels like the correct scope for that one community's decisions? Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 01:51, 25 January 2022 (UTC)
@Whatamidoing (WMF), In your example, you're adding new text that wasn't in the original message and a link to a page that might not be in the project or to a page that gives a different result. Such a translation, of course, should only be in the local project. Iniquity (talk) 07:21, 25 January 2022 (UTC)
The additional link is part of MediaWiki software. If you see this message at all, then the link will exist. The meaning of the message is still basically the same. It is perhaps a little more friendly or a little more helpful, but it is still the same. Many people might even say that it is better. But you think it should be local only, and the normal message should be for other wikis (each of which is permitted to change its own locally)?
Then why should the Russian Wikipedia's preference for "Write changes" not also be local only, and use the normal "Publish changes" for other wikis (each of which is permitted to change its own locally)? Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 00:07, 26 January 2022 (UTC)
> If you see this message at all, then the link will exist. The meaning of the message is still basically the same.
No, the meaning is different, as different projects use namespaces and default lookups differently. Moreover, in many projects there is no need to look for similar articles at all. But in any case, you can not add new meanings and phrases to the translation, this is wrong. If you think you need to add a new phrase in all projects, you should contact on the Phabricator to change the original English message.
> Then why should the Russian Wikipedia's preference for "Write changes" not also be local only, and use the normal "Publish changes" for other wikis (each of which is permitted to change its own locally)?
1. Why did you decide that our translation is identically equal to "Write changes", It seems below explained that this is not so?
2. Why did you decide that the MediaWiki translators who checked in on this page only translate for Wikipedia and didn't discuss it before? Iniquity (talk) 10:18, 26 January 2022 (UTC)
> different projects use namespaces and default lookups differently
But the extra link is the Special:Search page, which is part of MediaWiki software. Different projects use different namespaces and defaults, but all MediaWiki projects have Special:Search.
> 1. Why did you decide that our translation is identically equal to "Write changes", It seems below explained that this is not so?
How one might translate these nuanced Russian words into English doesn't really matter. The Russian speakers here seem to have agreed that the longer one is closer to the meaning of "Publish" (using the definition of publish as understood by English-speaking lawyers) and that the shorter one is preferred by the Russian Wikipedia. The one that is closer to the meaning should be the one in TranslateWiki. The one that is preferred by the local community can be kept locally.
> 2. Why did you decide that the MediaWiki translators who checked in on this page only translate for Wikipedia and didn't discuss it before?
Did they? No evidence has been put forward. For example, did they discuss it at the English Wikipedia, or at Commons, or at Wikidata, where this Russian translation is seen by all editors who have their user interface set to use the Russian language? Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 20:18, 28 January 2022 (UTC)
But I don't understand how this is related to my example. Iniquity (talk) 07:32, 25 January 2022 (UTC)
About this: "If your "edit" button does not fit in the box or breaks the interface due to errors in the design of the MediaWiki, it should be renamed to TranslateWiki."
I could agree to this in principle. However, I'm not sure how this is related to the situation at hand. The edit summary said that the change was "undiscussed changes across multiple messages" – not "it doesn't fit in the interface". The first argument was that ruwiki had a prior discussion about this – not "it doesn't fit in the interface". No one here has said "I can read all of the old label in <this button>, but the new label cuts off the last four letters."
I understand that Russian is one of the languages most affected by translation length. (In fact, it is the first language that I recommend to designers, because it is both readily available and has a long average word length.) But in this case, it feels like the main problem is a misunderstanding about the role of TranslateWiki.net.
Here's another thing you won't find in this discussion: Anyone telling the Russian Wikipedia that they can't use their preferred translation locally. Certainly I haven't said that. The newer translations might have some advantages, but nobody has said the Russian Wikipedia can't use the old ones – as long as you set them locally. Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 00:24, 26 January 2022 (UTC)
> The first argument was that ruwiki had a prior discussion about this – not "it doesn't fit in the interface". No one here has said "I can read all of the old label in <this button>, but the new label cuts off the last four letters.
Of course no one said, because this page is clearly not for that. Your non-consensual actions are discussed here. Iniquity (talk) 10:21, 26 January 2022 (UTC)
Yes, that does seem to be the problem. The problem seems to be that some people believe a discussion in a single community represents consensus for the whole world, and other people do not. Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 20:21, 28 January 2022 (UTC)
In your hypothetical example, WMF’s Legal-enforced text is objectively worse on the account of "Click here" being the wrong and inaccessible description for a link. So I assume the first step there would be to fight WMF Legal (in this hypothetical situation) on them enforcing bad, WCAG-violating link text on the communities. stjn[ru] 15:07, 30 January 2022 (UTC)
WMF's Legal team does not seem to have any strong views about the language used to encourage someone to create a new page. They only seem to be interested in the copyright/licensing/publication parts.
Have there been any discussions at the Russian Wikipedia about this change? I haven't been able to find any, and nobody has pinged me to any discussions there. Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 19:57, 11 February 2022 (UTC)
Can you clarify which discussions are you asking about? About the change itself in 2016 or about your/Sunpriat’s change in 2022? The first one was in the topic for your initial announcement, and I am not aware of current in-wiki discussions about it, you’ll have to ask someone else about it. stjn[ru] 17:34, 12 February 2022 (UTC)
I'm talking about current discussions. AFAICT nobody at ruwiki has noticed the change, or if someone has noticed the change, nobody has mentioned it. Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 20:15, 14 February 2022 (UTC)
I would remind you that I was reverted on Translatewiki.net, so someone definitely noticed. stjn[ru] 17:51, 15 February 2022 (UTC)
I think that "Записать страницу" is a little less probable to be understood as "Save the page to your account", because "записать" is rarely met in user interfaces that offer to write something to the user's disk to prevent it from being lost ("записать", like "write", is more common in contexts where an external copy of data is created, for example on a flash drive). Apart from that, I must say that what you wrote is to a large degree my impression as well. JWBTH (talk) 22:34, 19 January 2022 (UTC)
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