Talk:Abstract Wikipedia

Archives

---

1, 2, 3, 4

Outdated?

It seems to me that a content page entitled "Abstract Wikipedia" should include the current state of the project. The page describes the project schedule, but does not describe what been done and what remains to be done. For example, did the "Abstract Wikipedia part of the project ... start in roughly 2022"? Did the Wikifunctions Beta launch in 2022? Finell (talk) 04:17, 3 October 2023 (UTC)

@Finell Thanks for reporting this, and sorry for taking this long to answer. Yes, the main page needs to be updated, and we will do it soon. We just have been caught in a lot of work behind the scenes since the launch of the project. Sannita (WMF) (talk) 15:17, 8 February 2024 (UTC)

Suggestions

I have some criticisms. In this article, these examples are given:

subclassification_string_from_n_n_language(n_wikipedia, n_encyclopedia, English)

English : Wikipedias are encyclopedias.

subclassification_string_from_n_n_language(n_wikipedia, n_encyclopedia, German)

German : Wikipedien sind Enzyklopädien.

Subclassification(Wikipedia, Encyclopedia)

English : Wikipedias are encyclopedias.

German : Wikipedien sind Enzyklopädien.

However, what bothers me is the claim that this is language-neutral, when it's so obviously Anglocentric. If it were German-centred instead, for example, the code would look like this instead:

Zeichenfolge_für_die_Unterklassifizierung_von_n_n_Sprache(n_Wikipedia, n_Enzyklopädie, Englisch)

Zeichenfolge_für_die_Unterklassifizierung_von_n_n_Sprache(n_Wikipedia, n_Enzyklopädie, Deutsch)

Unterklassifikation(Wikipedia, Enzyklopädie) (thanks, google translate!)

So, what's the point of lying? Also, I think that the functions should be stratified (to avoid nasty things like self-referential paradoxes), like predicate logic or set theory. A predicate is a special case of a function whose output is T or F. Logical operators are similar in this regard, except that the input is also T or F.

If we're mirroring predicate logic, then we could instead have:

Encyclopedia(Wikipedia) or Enzyklopädie(Wikipedia)

Similarly, the set {x|Encyclopedia(x)} (or {x|Enzyklopädie(x)}) can be defined.

Quantifiers should also be included, so that one could state that for example, all humans are mortal. Now, I have an idea for stratification (if you dislike it, feel free to modify it- this is purely illustrative. If I'm unclear, feel free to ask for clarification- I'm $h!t at explaining things :))

0th order: Objects

1st order: Functions (incl. predicates) between objects (we'll state that these functions quantify over objects, in analogy to predicates in predicate logic), statements that only quantify over objects, and sets defined by said functions. All of these collectively will be referred to as first-order objects.

2nd order: Functions between first-order objects (but no higher), statements quantifying over first order objects (but no higher), and sets defined by said functions. All of these collectively will be referred to as second-order objects.

3rd order: Functions between second-order objects (but no higher), statements quantifying over second-order objects (but no higher), and sets defined by said functions. All of these collectively will be referred to as third-order objects.

etc.

Transfinite induction is obvious:

ω-order: Functions between nth-order objects (for n<ω), statements quantifying over nth-order objects (for n<ω), and sets defined by said functions. All of these collectively will be referred to as ω-order objects. (this can be applied to other limit ordinals too)

All functions, statements, and sets will be assigned the lowest ordinals consistent with the definitions provided Username142857 (talk) 17:34, 2 January 2024 (UTC)

Change project name to "Machine Wikipedia"

Hi, according to this discussion, I propose to change this project name to "Machine Wikipedia" to match Tim Berners-Lee's vocabulary proposal about Web 3.0 and making the web machine-readable.

I also propose to make fully textual articles called "Machine articles" written in RDF, like other editions of Wikipedia, these fully textual articles can be filled by humans and AI (by NLP).

The implementation of "Machine Wikipedia" is very fast and bots and machines can benefit from this edition very much. Cheers. Hooman Mallahzadeh (talk) 12:33, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

@DVrandecic (WMF): Feeglgeef (talk) 00:51, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

I would just like to add here that this project is more about giving more humans access to more knowledge, not giving robots a way to get knowledge. I'm also not quite sure what you mean by "machine-readable". All the AI scraper bots (see f:wf:Status_updates/2024-09-13#Site_reliability_issues for our own struggles with this) already can read and comprehend (to some capacity) all of the Wikimedia projects. "Abstract" more accurately describes the end goal of the project, being able to generate articles from every language in an Abstract language, and any impact on AI/machine use of Wikipedia is not really the goal. We plan to use Wikidata based objects, instead of RDF for the generation of content, which you can read more about at f:wf:Status_updates/2024-10-17. Generally, the Wikimedia community is skeptical about AI involvement in content creation; this project is not intended to change that. Thanks! Feeglgeef (talk) 00:59, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

@Feeglgeef Besides its benefits for chatbots and machines, encoding editions of Wikipedia to RDF can help to make some symmetry or harmony between existing human-readable Wikipedias.

For example: If English Wikipedia lacks some data about Steve Jobs (for example his father name), but French Wikipedia has, we can detect that deficiency of English edition by using "Machine Wikipedia" because after encoding process of English edition to RDF, the result lacks this data. Then we can alarm editors of English edition to add a sentence for that from the sentence existing in French.

I should note that Machine Wikipedia can be an accumulation of all human-readable Wikipedia (English, French etc.) containing all its data, but without any redundant information. Hooman Mallahzadeh (talk) 04:36, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

Actually, this problem would really be fixed by Abstract Wikipedia. The ideal ending for the project is for every Wikipedia to disappear in favor of one Abstract one, where f: code will be used to convert to a user's language. An RDF Wiki, separate from this, might be useful, but I would redirect you to Requests for new languages. You can create a proposal there. Feeglgeef (talk) 06:27, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

@Feeglgeef I proposed the idea here. Please inspect that. Thanks. Hooman Mallahzadeh (talk) 06:59, 17 November 2024 (UTC)